No LTR = Red Flag

[oppath]

I was a LATE bloomer with dating -- suffering from panic attacks and depression through high school and college years -- and eventually I overcame those things and started to date, have sex, and initiate relationships. Most people would say I am an outgoing, laid back, and confident person MOST of the time (though I am battling depression again now, which has triggered old insecurities and a lack of confidence internally).

 

Basically, I'm 27, but I didn't really start dating until I was 24.5. I've done pretty well, but one thing I always come up against is my dating history. I can explain being a late bloomer without getting into the above; I was focused on school, always wanting to go to graduate school, and running on the track and field and cross country teams in college. I focused elsewhere, dating wasn't a priority.

 

However, girls keep expressing surprise, and I would say shock with some, that my longest relationship has only been 6 months. They almost always say "how is that possible?" and I don't know what to say. I repeat the above, mention I am in graduate school getting my PhD and that takes priority, but I always feel they want more explanation, and I'm not comfortable giving it. I get the sense that some of them are really turned off by it. Perhaps that is in my head, but I've really sensed this some of the time.

 

Yes, this is an insecurity of mine -- the whole I've never been loved so perhaps am unlovable distortion -- but also that it somehow turns women off. To complicate things, assuming I get my depression under control and finally get over my last ex, I will then be focusing really hard on finishing my PhD and moving a couple of times for my career. I have this fear I am going to be 30 years old and never have sustained a relationship longer than 6 months.

 

I know that might not happen, I can't predict the future, and I know even if it doesn't happen, it means nothing about my ability to engage in or sustain relationships. It's just what happened. But how can I dispel my own insecurities, and what should I say to dates when they probe?

[nittygritty]

I think that your being too hard on yourself.

 

Tell the probing potential partners that "You just haven't met the right person yet".

 

You did a really good job explaining it in your post, you will be able to further explain as a relationship progresses.

 

It is more of a Red flag that a woman would require you to have been in a LTR in order to have a relationship with her.

 

You want someone who wants a healthy, good, LTR relationship. Not someone who just wants to make a rush to the alter.

 

I don't consider it a red flag for a 27 year old man to not have a LTR with a woman. Use your situation to your advantage and make it a challenge for the woman, to be the one.

[Krytellan]

Yeah, I would say the women need to get over it. I was pretty much in the same situation as you except for an 8 month relationship as a senior in high school. I went to grad school at 26 then had a 2 year, 4 year with marriage, and now I'm at 7 months currently. I missed out on a lot and I just now feel like I have matured in the relationship sense and can maintain a balance between best for me and best for relationship.

 

I don't really know if women prefer the experience of men, but it won't bother them if you have your **** together. It will take you a while to figure things out and you will often dread that you didn't have more knowledge... at least I did.

 

One thing I highly recommend is please take your time with marriage. you're getting a late start and it will be easy to think that the first or second girl is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. She may be, but pleeeaaase be patient. You need to see the examples of what you don't want before you can realize what you need.

 

Just date as much as possible, and if you find yourself commiting to someone early on, just don't feel the need to rush the marriage thing. Feel it our for a while first.

 

There, I pass my knowledge to you. I hope you at least take it in.

[corazoncito]

However, girls keep expressing surprise, and I would say shock with some, that my longest relationship has only been 6 months. They almost always say "how is that possible?" and I don't know what to say. I repeat the above, mention I am in graduate school getting my PhD and that takes priority, but I always feel they want more explanation, and I'm not comfortable giving it. I get the sense that some of them are really turned off by it. Perhaps that is in my head, but I've really sensed this some of the time.

 

Just a thought, but do think that it's possible that the reason that they are surprised is actually due to the fact that you are a nice guy who has his act together and and bright future they can't believe some other lucky lady hasn't already "snatched you up"?

 

I'm just wondering if your sensitivity to this issue may be causing you to automatically assume a negative interpretation.

[Star Gazer]

Krytie hun, your defense of the OP makes no sense given that you HAVE had long-term relationships, even if few in number. Also, you must admit that your inexperience going into your marriage was a factor in its demise (or really, if you had had more experience, perhaps wouldn't have married that woman to begin with).

[Krytellan]

Krytie hun, your defense of the OP makes no sense given that you HAVE had long-term relationships, even if few in number. Also, you must admit that your inexperience going into your marriage was a factor in its demise (or really, if you had had more experience, perhaps wouldn't have married that woman to begin with).

 

I have but they started at 26. THAT is my point. It will come. The inexperience did lead to my poor choice, again, thats the point of my post. Take your time.

 

If only I had met you at 28 instead of dragon queen

[Star Gazer]

I was only saying that in response to your whole "the women need to get over it" response. I would be nervous about getting involved with someone who had such little dating experience because I want to know not only if he's the right guy for ME (based on MY experience), but that he KNOWS that I am the right girl for HIM (which I don't see how he can know if he has no experience).

 

Anyway... Wanna turn back time??

[oppath]

That's my fear, that my inexperience will prevent relationships from coming to fruition!

 

But yes, I agree, that I interpret it negatively. Probably 20% of the population has been in my situation, it's not that uncommon, and I date a lot and have been in relationships. Mostly, my late start has led me to make bad choices, for example, my ex ended a 5 year relationship just before I started to date her, and while she was over him, the relationship was not far enough behind her. Those flags stared me in the face. I mean, I understand wanting to remain friends with an ex, but if you're talking to that ex twice a week, and when he comes into town you hang out with him one-on-one, and you tell your boyfriend "is it ok if I hang out with him tomorrow? I can, thanks. So you can't call me because he doesn't know about you and I don't want to hurt his feelings." Yeah, even though I said "that's not fair to me and is disrespectful," it was a big sign: I'M NOT READY FOR A NEW RELATIONSHIP that I did not heed.

 

I've made some bad choices, pursuing women who were clearly not ready or just plain wrong for me. That was where the lack of experience came in to play. Also, I have problems when my needs aren't being met. It's a struggle to communicate. I try to be calm and use "I" statements but if the woman gets defensive, it deteriorates.

 

I understand though, that I've really focused on other parts of my life, and have my **** together (except for my depression) more than most guys my age. I think that is why most women are surprised. It is my own insecurity.

[oppath]

And it's not that I have no experience...a six month relationship, a 5 month, and a 4 month, and lots of other dates, more than 50, in the 3 years I've been dating. I ended the 5 and 4 month. They weren't who I wanted. The recent one...I can see where I made some mistakes via inexperience that may have led to it's demise, but she did want to be friends with benefits after she dumped me (she devastated me), so it's hard to say if there were some definitive mistakes I made. Her emotions changed, but not her opinion of me. I'll never know the real reasons and have to accept reality.

 

I do want to improve my conflict-resolution skills while I am single because that is one area I know I can address; I don't have anger issues. I try to communicate in the textbook way, but I do see where I can improve.

[soulseeker]

I would be nervous about getting involved with someone who had such little dating experience because I want to know not only if he's the right guy for ME (based on MY experience), but that he KNOWS that I am the right girl for HIM (which I don't see how he can know if he has no experience).

 

Vaild point, and my first reaction to your post Oppath. BUT, how do people ever marry their HS sweethearts? My brother did that and I always wonder how he knew she was the one for him, and vice versa. I suppose some people dont need to do all of that searching? It's hard for me to understand that not everyone is like me in that regard.

 

I am in this situation now and it makes me nervous about even getting involved, though I really like the guy and he is a great person. Then I remember that not everyone needs to do all of this searching, for a partner, for a career, etc, and maybe it can work out. /shrug

 

Oppath, dont think that because someone has a huge amount of relationship experience that that necessarily means they learned everything there is to know about relationships. I was in a six year relationship and a three year relationship and I know that I could always improve on my communication skills. Every person you date is different, and there are nuances that you only learn about (about yourself and the other person) with that person.

 

Also, there are so many things that you only learn about yourself while IN a relationship. The conflict-resolution skills that you would use a work per se, or with a friend, are a bit different than the ones you would use in a relationship. It's all about learning and dont lose sight of the fact that we are all learning.

[oppath]

I shouldn't be so hard on myself...most of my conflicts in relationships...have been when something big has been going on. With the last ex she started acting all distant...why? Her ex proposed to her! And she already decided to dump me. So if someone acts all weird and I'm like "hey, what's up. You seem distant, is there anything going on." and they say "no" but clearly there is, I'm probably going to get upset with her and express anger. I have a pretty good BS detector. You can call me insecure, but when my gut is right, it is right. It takes two people to communicate, and looking at all my relationships, though not long term, I always put out a calm, caring inquisition first when I felt something wrong, and it wasn't until the other person ignored it or failed to explain herself or reassure me that I became irritated, and that's pretty normal.

 

Also, I find that girls can use the "maybe it's because you haven't had many relationships" as an excuse for something. It's kind of like if someone is a little insecure, but the other person did something wrong anyway, and they try to get themselves off the hook by saying "you're just insecure." I can recall girls claiming something about my lack of experience when in reality, they were objectively doing something wrong, and I called them out on it. And if I do something wrong, it's not necessarily because of a lack of experience. I could have all the experience in the world, if you don't express your needs, I might not know them.

[IWalkAlone]

Just a thought, but do think that it's possible that the reason that they are surprised is actually due to the fact that you are a nice guy who has his act together and and bright future they can't believe some other lucky lady hasn't already "snatched you up"?

 

Being a nice guy who has his act together has NO coorelation which being snatched up by a lucky lady. In fact, many women prefer men who are not nice and don't have their act together.

[Krytellan]

Anyway... Wanna turn back time??

 

My oh my... the decisions I face

[oppath]

Actually, I want to skip 6 months forward, as I am still getting over my last relationship and have some career uncertainties now! But I suppose I have to go through it. If only I had a flux capacitor...

[soulseeker]

There is an interesting article in the Oprah magazine about communication in relationships, and, as we all probably suspect, it is not only what you say that is important, but how you say it as well. Might want to check it out since you are working on communication already.

[oppath]

I have to go buy Oprah? I'm a dude!!!

 

Ok, I checked out the online webite, and found something great from doctor Phil. #1 Rule, EMOTIONAL INTEGRITY. This means don't lie, even by omission.

 

I'm too hard on myself for the communication things. It's like a blame myself for my last relationship not working out because we got in an argument a couple weeks before the breakup. Why did we get in an argument? She was acting distant and unavailable. Perhaps my tone was needy or insecure, but if I ask "when are we going to exchange Christmas gifts and celebrate my birthday. I was hoping we could do that when I got back." And the answer is "I don't know, I've got things to do," and I respond "is something going on? You're not acting like yourself" and she says "no, everything is fine" when in reality she is confused because her ex just proposed to her...it is not my communication problem .

 

****, I'm not over it. This sucks.

[soulseeker]

How long has it been since your break up?

 

Dont beat yourself up over the communication...it is and will always be A WORK IN PROGRESS. That's how it works. And, as you hinted on, it takes two people to communicate effectively. Seriously, I know you are a guy, just buy the magazine, this month is a good one. It will also give you more insight on the way most (?) women think and what is important to us...this will only help your communication. The simple fact that you want to work on communication is awesome

[oppath]

A little over 4 months since the breakup. I lost control afterwards and humiliated myself by hurling mean words her way (I'm sorry, I didn't know how to cope with her asking me to be friends with benefits two weeks after the breakup and then a week later learning her ex proposed to her while she was my girl, and her lying to me about something going on), and I lost some friends because of it. Anyway, good riddance to someone who lies -- and I am in therapy -- but the main issue is that by the time I work through all that pain, I'm another year older, and no more experience except for trust issues. It's a victim mentality that needs to be dropped, but all I can do is use my time wisely, trying to raise my self esteem, my assertiveness, and my communication skills. I figure that if I am depressed (I've been since before the breakup) I do have to deal with it, treat myself well, and "ride it out." It will take time. I need to use that time wisely so when I love myself and am ready to love again, I'll be in a better place to make the right decisions, to assertively ask for what I want and need, and to communicate better so I have the information I need to make informed choices in my relationships.

[soulseeker]

4 months, you are being WAY too hard on yourself. I know how bad the pain is, trust me. Give yourself a few more months. Dont think of it as time wasted, this is still relationship experience. Some of the best kind because you have to focus on you to get ovet it. Which is what we need to do in relationships anyway. Focus on ourselves, not what the other person can do better. Living a full life, and maintaining that while in a relationship = hardest thing in the world. The O magazine would be good for you this month...

 

Now, read my post, "How to deal" and help me

[DanielMadr]

1. As you can read here on LS, almost all people here with plenty of relationship experiences are not very wise, so I dont think more LTR=more experiences. It is mostly about what are you and your partner made of.

 

2. Its better to have no real experience but solid personal integrity and good will than tens of break ups....it is more of a red flag, b/c either you pick up the wrong one or there is something wrong with you.

 

3. Relationship is not the ultimate goal as you will realize when you will be in one. You have to mantain independence and give independence as opposed to obsesive, controlling, jealous, insecure, clingy behaviour ending in divorce court. You proved you can cope on your own. Its more points for your confidence and future relationships.

 

4. People jumping to any relationship are just afraid to be on their own or just to not look bad on family reunion. Or pursuing some hazy fairytale dream, instead of working on one. And you cant work on anything unless you are OK first.

 

5. F@ck Oprah and Dr. Phil. Btw some things are not meant to be told. When you (not you personaly) tell something worrying or simply heavy you are giving the burden to the person you tell. It makes you feel better. Nice. But dont be selfish and spill your guts on people paid for coping with your shyt....psychologists or those who devouted their life to hear it....priests or the curious ones...people in here.

 

6. Your brain plays tricks with you and you let him, man. Your brain was hurt and dont want to be hurt again, so he is trying to convince you, you are not good enough to go out and live fearless. Its a price you pay for smart brain of yours. It can come up with oplenty of smart ideas (we can tell you are intelligent) but on other hand it pretty much exagerrate when it comes to danger. Dont let him fool you. Dont think so much. Deep down you know how things are. Just dont be afraid to not to be afraid

[soulseeker]

I hate Dr. Phil, and I dont think everything needs to be said. The article I am referring to just talks about approach, something I think is helpful when dealing with the opposite sex, or anyone for that matter. And why not learn more about what you are trying to understand, i.e women. I would not recommend Cosmo, or the like, but there are geniunely beneficial articles in Oprah. I dont think of her as "the word" either, but the articles actually direct you to focus on the mind games one can play on oneself, as Daniel pointed out, and how to move past them.

[DanielMadr]

It's a victim mentality that needs to be dropped

 

PRECISELY!!!

 

so drop it, like now?!

 

Your parents havent given you enough love what? Guess what, that time is over. All you can do now is to be strong aka not a victim and give your love..to your girl (in limited doses) or your children (not so limited doses at least for 2 years) And try not to concentrate on receiving any back. And I guarantee you you will plenty of respect and love....just dont turn into love gaping little bundle again. Sounds like its hard life then? When you take it with joy not like a victim, its not that bad.

[soulseeker]

PRECISELY!!!

 

so drop it, like now?!

 

Your parents havent given you enough love what? Guess what, that time is over. All you can do now is to be strong aka not a victim and give your love..to your girl (in limited doses) or your children (not so limited doses at least for 2 years) And try not to concentrate on receiving any back. And I guarantee you you will plenty of respect and love....just dont turn into love gaping little bundle again. Sounds like its hard life then? When you take it with joy not like a victim, its not that bad.

 

Not to be cheesy, but dont forget to love yourself too.

[oppath]

Uh, yes, any victim mentality needs to disappear, and I agree that trying to find love is a sure fire way not to receive it, though I don't think trying to GIVE love will bring it to my life either . I think being selfish will eventually bring love, selfish meaning concern for my own well being and desires. The word gets a bad rap but there is no moral context to being concerned with one's own well being and desires as long as those desires are actually in my own best interests (desiring something doesn't make this so) and I live with integrity and try to obtain those desires ethically. It's time to think about ME ME ME!!!

 

And since I find it fun to work at homeless shelters, taking art classes, volunteering for the crisis/suicide prevention hotline, and playing in sports leagues, my life is pretty awesome.

[DanielMadr]

Uh, yes, any victim mentality needs to disappear, and I agree that trying to find love is a sure fire way not to receive it, though I don't think trying to GIVE love will bring it to my life either . I think being selfish will eventually bring love, selfish meaning concern for my own well being and desires. The word gets a bad rap but there is no moral context to being concerned with one's own well being and desires as long as those desires are actually in my own best interests (desiring something doesn't make this so) and I live with integrity and try to obtain those desires ethically. It's time to think about ME ME ME!!!

 

And since I find it fun to work at homeless shelters, taking art classes, volunteering for the crisis/suicide prevention hotline, and playing in sports leagues, my life is pretty awesome.

 

No, you are right of course...giving LOVE wont bring you any. That again self centered proffesing of ones deep feelings is not love I meant. Being concern about your happiness is not necesarily selfish when you happiness involves more than full stomach and pockets and empty prostate but involves also well being of others you care about (who deserve it by more than just being pretty and have boobs)