raincloud Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Okay. I'm new here and nervous even posting this. I'm in a very confused state of mind. I found out last summer, July to be exact, that my husband had been having an affair. Found out, meaning I had concrete proof that he couldn't deny and lie to me any longer about what I already knew deep down inside. Of course, as in all situations, there are so many layers to this that I could write a novel. I truly love this man, and he says he loves me and our daughter and wouldn't be able to live without us. He also is "in love" with the OW. I know they still talk, and I personally feel that he is trying to keep the door open with her "just in case" we don't work out. I so want to tell him that he needs to end it completely with her or end it with me so that I can move on and heal.....but, we have a six-year-old beautiful girl who would have her heart broken in the process. I do not want that, but I also do not want to feel like crap anymore.
Lizzie60 Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Okay. I'm new here and nervous even posting this. I'm in a very confused state of mind. I found out last summer, July to be exact, that my husband had been having an affair. Found out, meaning I had concrete proof that he couldn't deny and lie to me any longer about what I already knew deep down inside. Of course, as in all situations, there are so many layers to this that I could write a novel. I truly love this man, and he says he loves me and our daughter and wouldn't be able to live without us. He also is "in love" with the OW. I know they still talk, and I personally feel that he is trying to keep the door open with her "just in case" we don't work out. I so want to tell him that he needs to end it completely with her or end it with me so that I can move on and heal.....but, we have a six-year-old beautiful girl who would have her heart broken in the process. I do not want that, but I also do not want to feel like crap anymore. I faced the same dilemna with my first ex...he didn't cheat on me... I was just not in love with him anymore but my son was 12 at the time... so for a few years I thought I would be able to stay in a loveless (for me) relationship for the sake of my son (my daughter was in university by then)... but in the end, I just couldn't take it any longer.. I had to leave. Do I regret it...no. Was it better for my son... I don't think so... the best for the children is to remain with the 2 parents for sure, but the parents also need to be happy... It's really hard... I don't know what to tell you. Only you know if you can stay but you also have to think about your physical and mental health.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I'm so very sorry for your situation. Raincloud, do you remember how you felt when you had that nagging feeling something wasn't right, maybe you asked him and he denied. Do you remember when things just weren't adding up and you became so anxious you couldn't concentrate on even the things that you should be able to do without thinking, and again, it was all "in your head". Remember getting concrete proof and your heart racing to catch up with your mind even though you knew all along. Well, there in lies the answer to your current dellima. YOU KNOW. You know what you can deal with, you know how he will react. Just like before, despite his words, his actions are the only answers you need. What he says means nothing, what he does means everything. You could live with it for your daughter but I can promise you that it's a very long hard road that you'ld have to become completely happy about to navigate. It is very difficult to learn to trust your own judgement when someone has tried to convince you that you were nuts, seeing things, imagining things, and noone wants that to be true more than yourself. You have to learn to trust your judgement and act on logical thought rather than emotion. You have your answer. My feelings on staying for the kids are mixed and depend very much on the situation. First of all: YOU DON'T OWN THIS, he does. These are the consequences of his actions. Will your daughter be hurt (the thought of seeing that pain in my sons eyes is unbarable to even think about) -ofcourse she will. There is another line of thinking though that a daughter might come to expect to be treated as her mother or to accept much less from a R, if taught that this is normal. He has created this situation, you can't save him from it nor your daughter. You can only really be there with her and help her to learn and grow as you do. And believe me, no matter the outcome this will lead to more personal growth that you can imagine, as you struggle to survive it. Again, I'm so very sorry for your situation.
dbtmarley Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 First and foremost I understand the difficult situation you are in. Choices like these really have no clear cut answer and your marriage has basically become a damned if you do, damned if you don't type relationship. If you leave... your child most likely WILL be affected. If you stay ... You are affected. I mean where will the trust be. I don't know the dynamics of your relationship, but I must say he will most likely do this again when the opportunity arises and who is to say he will break it off with her anyways. He could still see her behind you back. Is trust important to you? If it is you might want to consider leaving. Thomas PS "I also do not want to feel like crap anymore" <--these are your words sweetheart. They are the words I would listen to myself. If this guy is doing this to you, you can leave... find you a good man. Your child will see how a good man is supposed to treat her mother and will most likely realize on her own what kind of person her father is. You do not deserve this.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 He has to decide (and you can help him make the right choice) that if he wants to stay married and be a family unit with you and your daughter, then he MUST tell the OW goodbye forever. (Is she married or have a boyfriend? If yes, then telling HER spouse what is going on will help expose their affair and end it.) Your husband can't focus on you and still have the OW in his life, they have to be in no contact mode completely. Marriage counselling can help you two fix the marriage, and each of you need individual counselling. Anyway, if he is unwilling to end things with the OW, you make the choice yourself and tell him goodbye. He cannot have his cake and eat it too. That is unfair to you, to your daughter and to the OW. That's just pure selfishness of him. Take care of yourself right now too. I know your life has been turned upside down, so just take it one day at a time.
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I agree with the previous responses. However, I want to add that a child is not necessarily a good and certainly not the best reason to stay in a bad marriage. Children learn what they live. Think about the lessons your daughter will grow up with and take into her own future relationship(s). What is your marriage teaching her about love, commitment, partnership, honesty, fidelity, integrity and values? Just something to think about! Beyond that, why would you want to just settle?
Citizen Erased Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I can give a different perspective. My mother stayed with my father for about... oh 16 years just because of the children. She was never really in love with him, but she got pregnant and they married. My sister was born, then they had me and my brother. I think she was trying to fill the void with children, but it just made it harder for her to leave. In the end, she had an affair and my dad kicked her out. My sister and brother lived with my dad, i lived with mum. Our family was torn apart but when it all came down to it our lives were better. No more did I have to be afraid of the constantly fighting, the silences at the dining table, the glares, not buying each other presents for christmas if they were fighting etc. A cold as ice environment is not the best way for children to grow up in, trust me, I can have my therapist tell you
quankanne Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 There is another line of thinking though that a daughter might come to expect to be treated as her mother or to accept much less from a R, if taught that this is normal. at this point, your child is the most important person in the equation, but unfortunately, you seem to be the only one who realizes what both the affair and impending divorce will do to her. someone mentioned marriage counselling – is this something your husband is open to, to help save your marriage? Though at this point, if he's telling you that he's keeping his options open with her "just in case," it may be too late to save said relationship. look – both my sisters divorced at the same time, for the same reason (cheating spouses). Both had primary custody of their children, but each handled the situation with the kids' dads differently. Sister A made it a point to let her kids know that their father didn't want them, didn't choose them when he had his affairs, bad-mouthed her ex in front of the kids, etc, and it's screwed those kids up badly. Both got lucky with their spouses, though, and are on their way to finding out what healthy marriage is about ... Sister B was incredibly hurt by her husband's behavior, but chose to keep those feelings separate from how she encouraged her kids to love their daddy because he loved them. Her rationale was that when they got old enough, they'd figure out his flaws on their own. And while those boys do have their share of problems, they have no doubt whatsoever that their dad loves them even though he does dumb-butt things. the reason why I'm telling you this is that should you decide to divorce your husband, how your child is affected by the split will directly impacted on how YOU handle things. No child wants to see mama and daddy split up, but no child wants to live in an unhappy home, either. If it means a healthier environment to raise your daughter ... a place where she learns she has value as a human and as a future wife and mother ... maybe divorce is in your best interest. just my two cents
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Your two cents are worth their weight in gold. My wife divorced her loser former husband when her daughters were just-turned-four and 18 months. Despite his problems she encouraged the girls to have their own, uninfluenced relationships with him so they'd get to know him on their terms, not someone else's. Over time they both came to realize why she divorced him. In my case the ex did her level best to alienate all five of my children from me. It "took" with my two youngest daughters who were four and just-turned-eight when we separated and divorced. I had virtually no relationship with them for over 10 years and it affected two of their older siblings for about two years. Fast forward something over 14 years. All five children are now adults, living independently and doing very well. Two of the five have little if any relationship with their mother and another two have none. Only my youngest son has a true relationship with his mother (she just moved in with him and his wife) and his daughter is the only grandchild who does as well. As for me, I have great relationships with all my children and with all four of my grandchildren, as does my wife. Methinks the karma train can decidedly come back to haunt you!
Author raincloud Posted May 22, 2007 Author Posted May 22, 2007 Some of your answers, while very hard to read, have been helpful. Thank you. But, like I said, I am going from one end of the emotional spectrum to the next lately. I will say that I am not the kind of person to pit my daughter against her father. I know he loves her. And to answer one of the posts, this OW is not married. To make my situation even stickier, she moved halfway across the country to live here, closer to him. His job on the road kept us detached from each other after the birth of our child. He met this other woman on the job site. Then he finally landed a job close to home and his whole double life came crashing down on him one day. It is such a mess. But I do my best to take care of our daughter the best I can despite the pain I feel. This OW had the understanding that he would eventually leave me and they would be married. But now that he has been home and is experiencing life with his daughter and I, I can tell how mentally confused he is. I truly feel that things are eating him up inside.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 My stomach churned as I was reading your reply. She moved closer to him? That's just scary. He is messing with her as well, which is WHY he needs some counselling because not only is he breaking your heart, he is leading on the OW, allowing her to believe there is a chance for them. How can you two even try to fix the marriage if she is lurking and waiting.... Encourage him to see a therapist. He needs to understand and FEEL the consquences of his actions, so part of it is, losing what life he has built with you as a family unit. Ofcourse he will still be a father to his daughter, but it won't be 24/7 as it is now. He has to choose which life he wants. Have you spoken to the OW? She needs to back off and leave you two alone.
Author raincloud Posted May 22, 2007 Author Posted May 22, 2007 Yes, I sent her an e-mail and she basically sent me a sob story back making it sound like they were soul mates. When I replied to her reply and told her that she and my husband were both being selfish and that our child was in the middle of this and that a six-year-old may bear the brunt of what a couple of adults can't control, well -- she never got back to me on that. Let me say that I did not cuss her or bash her, I just told her the truth. And yes, I have been thinking about therapy too, I don't know if he would go for it. My stomach is churning too.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 It doesn't matter if he would go for it or not - If he wants to try to fix your marriage and make things better, it is a MUST! Be firm about that. The whole thing is painful all around, for you - For your H - And for the OW. He has lied to her, or at best, led to believe there is a future for them...He is confused and realizing that she may not be what he wants afterall. They aren't soulmates, she's caught up in the feelings of romance and is basing everything on fantasy, which is what their affair is/was. I am sorry for your pain. You don't deserve it and I hope that this situation gets resolved sooner rather than later.
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 They aren't soulmates, she's caught up in the feelings of romance and is basing everything on fantasy, which is what their affair is/was. What's very common is that "soulmates" who are having an affair like that usually find, once they've shaken off their former spouse(s), that the ardor cools when the relationship is no longer a secret, they've seeing one another every day, spending every night together, facing living costs and bills together, etc. Suddenly it's no longer exciting or "special." It becomes routine, dull, ordinary, and one or both of them usually end up in another affair. Raincloud (good handle under the circumstances), it's truly a shame this is happening to you. I hope you intend to take care of yourself as well as your daughter. You also matter, you know.
Tomcat33 Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Raincloud - I'm really sorry for your pain and for your situation. I can understand how frustrating it is and why you have such indecisiveness. First things first, you need to sit him down and explain to him that in order to keep you and the marriage he needs to cut the OW out cold turkey, no negotiation whatsoever. If he is not prepared to do this you have to be prepared to walk or in the least to kick him out to figure out what he wants from/with the OW and for you to figure out what you want with this man anyway... If find it so extremely disrespectful that he would flat out tell you that he is not going to break contact with her. WOW how do you put up with that? And please don't say for your kids because your kids won't want a mother who doesn't respect hereself, they want to look up to you and admire you. Secondly, the whole therapy thing is a ways away unless he can cut her out of the picture therapy is not even worth talking about as things are right now. Unfortunately in order for therapy to work he has to be willing as well. If you force him to go he will not get out of it what he is supposed to. therapy only works on people who willingly want it. Therapy is not a miracle cure you have to work WITH therapy in order for it to work. Lastly, it's not really your place to write to the OW to tell he stay away, how dare your H put you in that position!?! Your H should be doing that. The OW won't listen to you and your H needs to step up to his marriage or lose it. It's up to you if you want to stick around to fascilitate things for him. PS for what it's worth listen to Cumudgeon he gives by far the best advice on LS.
nittygritty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Marriagebuilders.com has a lot of good information on how to try to save your marriage with an affair in progress. I am so sorry, this is tough stuff your dealing with. I agree with quankanne and the other posters that said staying for the sake of the child is not going to be doing anybody any favors if he continues to have an affair. You and your daughter deserve to not have to live with all of the turmoil and pain that his affair is causing. I think you need to draw a line for him not to cross in order for this to end. Gather up your courage and give him an ultimatum. Do what is necessary. It is not healthy for you or your daughter to live like this.
Trimmer Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Sister B was incredibly hurt by her husband's behavior, but chose to keep those feelings separate from how she encouraged her kids to love their daddy because he loved them. Her rationale was that when they got old enough, they'd figure out his flaws on their own. And while those boys do have their share of problems, they have no doubt whatsoever that their dad loves them even though he does dumb-butt things. My wife divorced her loser former husband when her daughters were just-turned-four and 18 months. Despite his problems she encouraged the girls to have their own, uninfluenced relationships with him so they'd get to know him on their terms, not someone else's. Over time they both came to realize why she divorced him. I agree with these, although I'll even take it a step further, and say that the primary reason you should keep your kids' relationships emotionally seperate from your marital problems is not in the hope that they will eventually see his/her flaws for themselves one day, but for the very basic reason that it's a good thing developmentally for kids to have strong relationships with both parents. Period. My wife cheated on me before we had kids, then left me for another OM when the kids were 6 and 8. Not that I'm painting myself as some saint, because I had some pretty bitter feelings to work through, but for the good of the kids, I made it clear in my own heart that my feelings about her as a spouse are separate from her ability to be a loving parent to our kids, and that I wanted to do whatever I could to continue and foster their good relationship with her. They may learn the truth; they may well already be coming to their own conclusions. The truth is sad, but it's authentic, and real, and at some point, they deserve to know what they want to know about it; I'm not denying that. But I'm not going to be jumping in the aisles saying "Gotcha!" or "Told you so!", and I'm not going to take it as validation of my own bitterness by thinking, well, I'm glad they found out what a jerk she is. What I hope is that in spite of whatever she became as a spouse, she will continue to be a great mother. I know this is an overreaction to Quankanne and Curmudgeon's comments - I know they weren't saying this to this extreme, but it's easy, while you're in the middle of this early, intense grief, to want to strike back, and in my case (here comes the not-so-saintly part...), that included wanting the kids to eventually know just who did this and why, and to know that she was the bad person and I was the good person. Thank goodness I held my tongue long enough to get my feet under me and work out my own issues before I did anything stupid. Now I just want them to have two parents who are, individually, the best parents we can each be. You are early in the process - for that matter you don't even know what "the process" is going to be yet - and I know your vision is blurred with intense emotion; I just wanted to give you a view of an approach to the parenting / kids issue that I am, in retrospect, very glad we took.
nittygritty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 You can't really do no contact with a child in the picture but you can do low contact if he is unwilling to save the marriage. There is a lot of support on LS to help you thru this, whatever you decide to do, so keep posting. IMO, right now you need to concentrate on taking care of yourself so that you can take better care of your daughter, rather than trying to second guess what your husband and the OW are up to. Your husband is not acting responsibly and has proven himself to be extremely self-serving. It sounds like the affair is still very much in progress, so start preparing and protecting yourself for in the event that the marriage cannot be salvaged.
nittygritty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I also agree with Trimmer. Do not interfere with your daughter's relationship with her father. No matter how much pain your in over this.
Author raincloud Posted May 22, 2007 Author Posted May 22, 2007 Yes, I agree that I need to take care of myself. Therefore, I have started a good workout system and that has really helped to alleviate some of my stress - kickboxing is great for the tension! I actually am getting in the best shape I ever have been. I also agree that I shouldn't put up with this just for the sake of our child - I do believe that children are way more perceptive than we realize at times. Thank you nittygritty, for the marriagebuilders advice. I have already found some good and helpful information. Now I just need to figure out the best way to handle the confrontation that I know needs to take place.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Now I just need to figure out the best way to handle the confrontation that I know needs to take place. Talk to your family and your closest friends, you need all the support you can get right now. Kickboxing eh? That's great! Try yoga too, not only will it make you feel good, it will also relieve that stress and keep your mind calmer too.
Author raincloud Posted May 22, 2007 Author Posted May 22, 2007 I also agree with Trimmer. Do not interfere with your daughter's relationship with her father. No matter how much pain your in over this. I completely agree, that is something that I promised myself I would never do. My husband had a very crazy upbringing. His father divorced more than once and his mother tried to pit the children against his father. It was a mess. I would never do or condone that method of retaliation. I believe that she needs to have the healthiest relationship possible with her father.
whichwayisup Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I believe that she needs to have the healthiest relationship possible with her father. Let's hope your husband feels the same way, not only about himself being a father, but also making sure that HE doesn't blame you if a divorce happens. I hope he holds you in high reguard as a mother, like you do for him as a father to your child. Last thing you want is him saying to your daughter, "mommy is divorcing me because she doesn't want to be married to me anymore." You and your can put your child first, above the pain and resentment (if it gets to that point) and make sure she feels secure, safe and loved by both of you.
Trimmer Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Now I just need to figure out the best way to handle the confrontation that I know needs to take place. I wish I'd had the strength and clarity that you seem to already have some of when I was in your position. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I don't think it has to be a hostile confrontation. Can it be as simple as calmly telling him "This is not a marriage if you are seeing someone else. You need to make a decision, and here are the conditions of staying in this marriage: (a), (b), and ©." To include immediate no contact with the OW, marriage counseling, etc... as you choose. Others may have better advice than I do (seeing as how I didn't do a very good job myself anyway, and in my case, I'm pretty sure she had already decided to leave,) but I think keeping it simple, and keeping it to what you need for the marriage to move forward - instead of "confronting" him and trying to prove your allegations, or get him to admit to something - will minimize the opportunity for excuses, denials, arguments, etc...
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I agree completely with Trimmer. Action instead of reaction. Decide on your personal boundaries and tell him what you can and cannot live with. No arguing, no negotiations, statements about you and what YOU are willing to live with. Otherwise it will turn into every conversation you have had about the matter before. I wouldn't consider it a confrontation at all, just informing him of how YOU intend to handle the situation you have found yourself in. To do this though you have to be willing to go to plan B without hesitation. Don't bother until you are.
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