Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 ok ..... this is were what you say this the wall for me. I think you are chosing to blind yourself to the reality of what actually happened. Your husband flirted with and cheated on you with another woman. If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. Now .... I in no way look down on you for staying with him. The fact that you both have chosen to work thorugh this together and save your marriage is admirable. I have no doubt it hasn't been easy on you. My only concern is that you seem to believe or at least want other to believe that everything is fine and dandy and he wouldn't have strayed if it hadn't been for the OW forcing herself on him. It seems very naive and to be honest I don't think you feel that way deep down. I think you just wish that were the case. . I couldn't agree more with all of this. I was cactually going to write something very similar to the bolded part. I dunnow it's almost pointless to argue all of this, each and every case is so different from the next. the commonalities are the lies that are told both ways. IO if you can work it out with your H that's great, it takes a lot of energy to come around from something like that but if you can then that's really great. I do believe you can become stronger in the end. I do however see a bit of denial on your part, I hope it's just because you have your back up here and you don't want to give in publicly...for the sake of your situation you would benefit more from placing the blame where the blame is due. That will not only ensure that you can do it right the second time around, it would help you take caution to the fact that just because you forgave him it doesn't excuse him of doing it again. If you blame the OW for his decision, there will be plenty more OW, and when the coast is clear again and he has your most of your trust again he may just decide to let one of them overwhelm him again...afterall it's the OW not he who is in the wrong.
bullhunter Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. This is probably true. I know it was almost undoubtedly true for me, and I told my wife so. I was insanely angry with my wife, and wanted to strike out in a way that I knew would hurt her. I didn't know the depth of pain that either she or I would experience at my hands, but that is not an excuse, nor is it meant to be. That said, I also want to add that had the particular woman who I had an A with not pursued me relentlessly, I certainly would not have had an affair with her, and therefore may not have had an affair at all, as the odds of me searching out a woman for the purpose of having an affair was nonexistent. I would not ever have done that. So, I take full responsibility for my actions. What I did was terrible. I live with that, but with my wife's help have begun to forgive myself. What I see on these boards, usually from everyone is an incredibly simplistic view of life. The OW usually seem so very sure that the MP is telling them the truth when they speak of love and connection. The BS are equally sure that had their SO not been pursued, their SOs would not have been unfaithful. Everyone gets so angry at the possibility that their view is not taken at face value as the correct view. The only thing anyone ever seems to agree with is that the MM is a conniving, sneaky lying creep. Well, there's another simplistic view that is not completely accurate. Many MM are simply mixed up, too. Mistakes are made by people. Usually they aren't evil people, just ones who for some reason can't handle life very well at that moment. Please, folks, learn to forgive.
annabelle75 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Everyone gets so angry at the possibility that their view is not taken at face value as the correct view. The only thing anyone ever seems to agree with is that the MM is a conniving, sneaky lying creep. Well, there's another simplistic view that is not completely accurate. Many MM are simply mixed up, too. Mistakes are made by people. Usually they aren't evil people, just ones who for some reason can't handle life very well at that moment. Please, folks, learn to forgive. I agree with you on that. Everyone makes mistakes and I think nothing is ever as black and white as people seem to want to make it. I really try to look at it form everyone's point of view and understand where they are coming from.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 This is probably true. I know it was almost undoubtedly true for me, and I told my wife so. I was insanely angry with my wife, and wanted to strike out in a way that I knew would hurt her. I didn't know the depth of pain that either she or I would experience at my hands, but that is not an excuse, nor is it meant to be. That said, I also want to add that had the particular woman who I had an A with not pursued me relentlessly, I certainly would not have had an affair with her, and therefore may not have had an affair at all, as the odds of me searching out a woman for the purpose of having an affair was nonexistent. I would not ever have done that. . Is it just me or does your post seem a bit contradictory!? On the one hand you say it's true that if weren't with that woman you would have cheated with another, on the other you say if she had not pursued you relentlessly you would not have engaged in an A. So....which is it? Did you cheat because you wanted to or simply because the OW pursued you? And one more thing, I don't know too many people that would "persist" on hitting on someone unless they get some sort of green light. A person may be persistant or agressive in the persuit but if they are shut down they usually desist.
bullhunter Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Is it just me or does your post seem a bit contradictory!? On the one hand you say it's true that if weren't with that woman you would have cheated with another, on the other you say if she had not pursued you relentlessly you would not have engaged in an A. So....which is it? Did you cheat because you wanted to or simply because the OW pursued you? And one more thing, I don't know too many people that would "persist" on hitting on someone unless they get some sort of green light. A person may be persistant or agressive in the persuit but if they are shut down they usually desist. Wow, you sure do read what you want, don't you? I didn't say that if I didn't cheat with that woman it would have been with another. The point was that the OW wasn't the problem, I was. It was my problem, and the way I dealt with the problem was not good. I cheated because I was angry and the woman pursued me. Had she not pursued me, I'm sure I would still have hurt my wife in some way, due to the depth of my anger. Would it have been another woman? doubtful. Who you know, and what you believe they would do is really moot, isn't it? And for your info, even AFTER I told the woman I wanted nothing more to do with her, she still continued pursuing, e-mails, phone-calls, drive-by's for over a year. So, yeah, she pursued me. The fact that I wasn't downright mean was apparently enough of a green light for her.
Tomcat33 Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Wow, you sure do read what you want, don't you? I didn't say that if I didn't cheat with that woman it would have been with another. The point was that the OW wasn't the problem, I was. It was my problem, and the way I dealt with the problem was not good. I cheated because I was angry and the woman pursued me. Had she not pursued me, I'm sure I would still have hurt my wife in some way, due to the depth of my anger. Would it have been another woman? doubtful. Who you know, and what you believe they would do is really moot, isn't it? And for your info, even AFTER I told the woman I wanted nothing more to do with her, she still continued pursuing, e-mails, phone-calls, drive-by's for over a year. So, yeah, she pursued me. The fact that I wasn't downright mean was apparently enough of a green light for her. Ahh yeah actually you did say that. Excuse me but I read what you are writing, if you write wishy washy thoughts it's no wonder it will confuse the reader. Anabelle wrote: If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. Bullhunter wrote: This is probably true. I know it was almost undoubtedly true for me, Now you write: I'm sure I would still have hurt my wife in some way, due to the depth of my anger. Would it have been another woman? doubtful. I notice you use forms of the word "doubt" a lot, perhaps you are still not certain that it was entirely your fault that you cheated on your W? According to this last post of yours it sounds like you are playing the victim. Oh boo-hoo the OW pursued you for a year after you cut her off. Well you clearly gave the GREEN LIGHT before it had to get to the point that you cut her off for good because you had an A with her, so when I said you gave her the green-light I meant for the A to happen, or was she holding a gun to your head at that point too? And as a side note, if you had the A because you were pursued, then I would hate to see what would have become of you if you were born a woman, an attractive one at that, you'd be a real trollup with that logic. We women get pursued a LOT but we say no when we don't want to get involved with someone. Being pursued is no excuse for saying yes to someone trhat was wrong for you. You have to be accountable for your own actions. Are you?
bullhunter Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Unfortunately, you are bolding the wrong part of the quote. And I probably should have been more careful at quoting only the part I meant. But I felt that it wouldn't make as much sense. Anabelle wrote: If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. But, as I said, it was my problem. I notice you use forms of the word "doubt" a lot That's very true. I've found in my life that there are very very few certainties. But I'm quite certain it was my fault that I did what I did. TC, you seem to be incredibly angry. As you have seen from my other posts, in this thread, I have taken full responsibility for what I did. If you want to turn that into something else because I was pursued, go for it. But, TC, have you taken responsibility for what you did? How much of your anger is actually anger at yourself? I didn't always take responsibility for what happened. For quite sometime, I like many others on these boards, blamed someone else and was angry at someone else. My wife, the other woman, whomever. I refused to face the fact that it was me. But the reality is, I did what I did, and hurt my wife badly. I'm thankful she forgave me.
Tomcat33 Posted May 26, 2007 Posted May 26, 2007 Unfortunately, you are bolding the wrong part of the quote. And I probably should have been more careful at quoting only the part I meant. But I felt that it wouldn't make as much sense. Anabelle wrote: If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. But, as I said, it was my problem. That's very true. I've found in my life that there are very very few certainties. But I'm quite certain it was my fault that I did what I did. TC, you seem to be incredibly angry. As you have seen from my other posts, in this thread, I have taken full responsibility for what I did. If you want to turn that into something else because I was pursued, go for it. But, TC, have you taken responsibility for what you did? How much of your anger is actually anger at yourself? I didn't always take responsibility for what happened. For quite sometime, I like many others on these boards, blamed someone else and was angry at someone else. My wife, the other woman, whomever. I refused to face the fact that it was me. But the reality is, I did what I did, and hurt my wife badly. I'm thankful she forgave me. Ok fair enough you left it somewhat ambiguous for interpretation by not indicating specifically at what part of the quote you were refering to. As per my anger, I was peeved at YOU for telling me that "I only read what I want to, for insulting me with an attack". You could have explained yourself instead of attacking me. Again, you are looking for other excuses to blame your actions on someone else. Nothing but your own words peeved me. Leave my personal life out if it. I'm hardly angry I have taken full responsibility for my own pain and my own actions and I did something about it. I stopped my situation dead in its tracks. And it feels great to have rid myself of an unhealthy situation!!! I am me again. I'm not the married person who made and still makes false promises HE is, and he doesn't seem to want to take no for an answer, he is STILL lying to the woman he so call "loves"LOL so my situation is very different from yours. Their mess of a marriage is no longer my concern. I'll give you this much, at least you admit you blame others for your actions and on the same token you have gotten to the point where you take full responibility of what you did. That's good.
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