Ruby Tuesday Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Speaking of flattering people for an ulterior motive, I find it ironic that within this very thread there are some real two faced people who post here feigning concern for the OW, whilst simultaniously posting on a certian OW bashing board and lol'ing at them behind their back. You know who you are, and so do I. You may not like what I have to say, but at least I am honest.
TogetherForever Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Why can't a compliment be a compliment? What is the big deal? Whether a compliment is given in an affair, a marriage, a partnership etc... Who cares - It's a damn compliment. That's my opinion:) And: In any kind of relationship, a little ego stroking isn't a major deal ya know.
bullhunter Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 In any kind of relationship, a little ego stroking isn't a major deal ya know. not only not a major deal. it's a good thing. it's only manipulation if you're trying to make something, and giving compliments for that purpose.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 it's only manipulation if you're trying to make something, and giving compliments for that purpose. what does that even mean!?!?
bullhunter Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 what does that even mean!?!? TC, you are not a stupid person, in fact, your posts show you to be quite intelligent. You know very well what it means. There are many people who do not give compliments simply because the are thinking nice thoughts about the person. They are giving compliments for ulterior purposes. In other words the are giving compliments for the express purpose of manipulating emotions. Sales people do that all the time. There are also SOME men and women who do it to exploit another person emotionally. Please do note the use of the word SOME.
annabelle75 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 what does that even mean!?!? Time to surrender TC. You've fought a valiant battle but there are those that will just never see an OM/OW as a regular person in a real relationship. They will consider everything to be some form of manipulation. If this thread were about lipstick colors they would declare that OW wear red lipstick as some sort of "whore uniform" to attract unsuspecting married men. Its just easier for some people to make the OM/OW the villan instead of facing the reality that the finger should be pointed at the person they put their faith and trust into. And IMO, a compliment is just a compliment. We compliment people to make them feel good. If people want to consider that to be some sort of manipulation, than thats their business. They can be a synical as they want.
Trialbyfire Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 An affair is not a healthy relationship for anyone involved. WS lies and cheats, the OW/OM empowers him/her to cheat by remaining in the affair. It's as simple as that.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 An affair is not a healthy relationship for anyone involved. WS lies and cheats, the OW/OM empowers him/her to cheat by remaining in the affair. It's as simple as that. Oh get off of it already. When someone takes out a thread asking "Is it right to start an affair" then bring it on. Otherwise what the heck do any of the comments here re A being right or wrong have to do with the price of tea in China? LOL Time to surrender TC. You've fought a valiant battle but there are those that will just never see an OM/OW as a regular person in a real relationship. They will consider everything to be some form of manipulation. If this thread were about lipstick colors they would declare that OW wear red lipstick as some sort of "whore uniform" to attract unsuspecting married men. Its just easier for some people to make the OM/OW the villan instead of facing the reality that the finger should be pointed at the person they put their faith and trust into. You're absolutely right Annabelle it is time to surrender if only to stop the broken record from playing, it's doing my head in. I couldn't agree more about the making the OW/OM out to be the villians. I have come to one conclusion though, the type of people who make it a personal vendetta to blame/bash OW/OM are the BSs who stayed with their cheating Ss, they need someone else to point the finger at in order to justify their idiotic decision to stay with the cheater. All in all, and judging even from the people who posted in this thread, the ones who kicked their cheating Ss to the curb are the ones who care about what their partners did, they could care less about the OW/OM. I am more partisan to that way of thinking...but to each their own. When my ex X3 (three exes ago) cheated on me I could care less about the OW, I could care less if she seduced him, she could have shown up naked to work and thrown herself on him, I could care less. HE decided to go for it. The one who lied to me and broke the respect towards me was him, the OW in that situation owes me NOTHING. Funny how that happens, no? The ones who keep the cheaters are the ones who blame the OW/OM the most.
TogetherForever Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Oh get off of it already. When someone takes out a thread asking "Is it right to start an affair" then bring it on. Otherwise what the heck do any of the comments here re A being right or wrong have to do with the price of tea in China? LOL You're absolutely right Annabelle it is time to surrender if only to stop the broken record from playing, it's doing my head in. I couldn't agree more about the making the OW/OM out to be the villians. I have come to one conclusion though, the type of people who make it a personal vendetta to blame/bash OW/OM are the BSs who stayed with their cheating Ss, they need someone else to point the finger at in order to justify their idiotic decision to stay with the cheater. All in all, and judging even from the people who posted in this thread, the ones who kicked their cheating Ss to the curb are the ones who care about what their partners did, they could care less about the OW/OM. I am more partisan to that way of thinking...but to each their own. When my ex X3 (three exes ago) cheated on me I could care less about the OW, I could care less if she seduced him, she could have shown up naked to work and thrown herself on him, I could care less. HE decided to go for it. The one who lied to me and broke the respect towards me was him, the OW in that situation owes me NOTHING. Funny how that happens, no? The ones who keep the cheaters are the ones who blame the OW/OM the most. Tomcat, That last line is priceless. "THE ONE WHO KEEP THE CHEATERS ARE THE ONES WHO BLAME THE OW/OM THE MOST" I'd use that as my signature if it wasn't your thought:)
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 "You've fought a valiant battle but there are those that will just never see an OM/OW as a regular person in a real relationship." An affair ISN'T a real relationship. Real relationships aren't hidden, known only to the two people involved in them. Real relationships don't self-destruct when they see the light of day. Real relationships can be acknowledged. Real relationships don't have to be conducted in secret. An affair is no more real than a child playing house, there's nothing real about it. FWIW, it takes two people to start an affair, I hold each of them equally responsible.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Tomcat, That last line is priceless. "THE ONE WHO KEEP THE CHEATERS ARE THE ONES WHO BLAME THE OW/OM THE MOST" I'd use that as my signature if it wasn't your thought:) Be my guest Tg4E! I don't mind.... Might make you a lot of enemies around here though Mehh I dunnow about you but I already have a lof of friends :laugh:
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Funny how that happens, no? The ones who keep the cheaters are the ones who blame the OW/OM the most. Now that's funny. The ones who "keep" the cheaters? They weren't cheaters when the BS married them, you can be sure of that, and maybe they "kept" them because they're mature enough to realize that no marriage is perfect and infidelity is not necessarily a deal breaker. Maybe they keep them because they're best friends and have built a home, a family and a life together? Don't be so simplistic, it's not as though they're affair partners who have absolutely nothing shared between them other than a secret. On the other hand, the OP doesn't keep a cheater but actually STARTS a relationship with a known liar. The OP actually signs-up for infidelity. How stupid is that?
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 TC, you are not a stupid person, in fact, your posts show you to be quite intelligent. You know very well what it means. There are many people who do not give compliments simply because the are thinking nice thoughts about the person. They are giving compliments for ulterior purposes. In other words the are giving compliments for the express purpose of manipulating emotions. Sales people do that all the time. There are also SOME men and women who do it to exploit another person emotionally. Please do note the use of the word SOME. I honestly didn't understand your statement. Now that you explained it I know what you mean, we actually agree. A few pages back I also said that if you are a serial cheater or a player then those types of people give compliments as means to seduce someone for their own agenda. Those types of compliments often fall into the categories of lies, they lie to win people over. Maybe we can let the original post morph into, "when are compliments simply that and when are they flat out lies?" When I was dating my (seperated) MM, he would compliment me so much he would say things over and over about how incredible I was, out of the blue he would tell me over and over how beautiufl I am, how much fun I am how in love he was with me how great I made him feel blaah blaaah, one day I just looked at him and said to him "you say a a lot of beautiful things to me, but it's almost too much. Is it because you have to overcompensate because you know how much it bothers me that you are still married?" his answer of course was no it's what he felt and he loved saying those things to me, my question upset him. Still I couldn't help think it was too much, borderline lies. I've always had expressive boyfriends but he was a bit too much.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Now that's funny. The ones who "keep" the cheaters? They weren't cheaters when the BS married them, you can be sure of that, and maybe they "kept" them because they're mature enough to realize that no marriage is perfect and infidelity is not necessarily a deal breaker. Maybe they keep them because they're best friends and have built a home, a family and a life together? Yeah but he's a cheater now and YOU decide to keep him. Again, passing the buck. So just because you married someone you expect them to never change in any shape way or form? According to your theory then you could marry a man who was responsible and went to work every day, and 8 yrs down the road he decides to start drinking heavily and becomes an alcoholic and loses his job and starts stealing from your kid's college fund to buy more booze, he starts to beat you, and becomes violent with the children and refuses to get help you decide to stay with him anyway because you didn't "marry an alcoholic" Great logic IO So are you saying your H became a cheater because of the OW? Otherwise he would not have cheated? LOL
annabelle75 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Now that's funny. The ones who "keep" the cheaters? They weren't cheaters when the BS married them, you can be sure of that, and maybe they "kept" them because they're mature enough to realize that no marriage is perfect and infidelity is not necessarily a deal breaker. Maybe they keep them because they're best friends and have built a home, a family and a life together? If a man was my best friend, we had a family together and had vowed to spend the rest of our lives to each other and he made the choice to have sex with another woman...... it would be over for me. It would make his betrayal all the more worse. I could never stay with a cheater and that is one of the reasons I left my husband. His acts showed his lack of respect for me and our life together. And btw, I've never once placed any of the blame on the woman or women that he cheated on me with. They didn't make me any promises and owed me nothing. As for as I know he probably told tell horrible things about me and made them feel sorry for him. They probably thought they were helping him escape from some sort wicked shrew that was ruining his life. He cheated. He's the bad guy.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Yeah but he's a cheater now and YOU decide to keep him. Again, passing the buck. So just because you married someone you expect them to never change in any shape way or form? According to your theory then you could marry a man who was responsible and went to work every day, and 8 yrs down the road he decides to start drinking heavily and becomes an alcoholic and loses his job and starts stealing from your kid's college fund to buy more booze, he starts to beat you, and becomes violent with the children and refuses to get help you decide to stay with him anyway because you didn't "marry an alcoholic" Great logic IO So are you saying your H became a cheater because of the OW? Otherwise he would not have cheated? LOL Umm, no, that's not at all what I said, but then most people know that. I don't know where you're drawing your conclusions from, but you appear to be incapable of logical thought and reasoning, therefore, attempting a rational discussion with you is pointless.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Oh and, some people actually do stay married to alcoholics who manage to stay on the wagon and reform. Imagine that, actually forgiving and sticking with your spouse through the tough times....
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 "An affair ISN'T a real relationship. Real relationships aren't hidden, known only to the two people involved in them. Real relationships don't self-destruct when they see the light of day. Real relationships can be acknowledged. Real relationships don't have to be conducted in secret. An affair is no more real than a child playing house, there's nothing real about it. FWIW, it takes two people to start an affair, I hold each of them equally responsible. Ok I'll give you that, an A if not the real thing. The real thing is indeed lived in the open. However to say there is NOTHING real about is an overstatement. C'mon nothing? i disagree there are elements of it that are very real. Yeah it takes two people to engage in an affair and the fact that the OW chose to stay in the A with your H is her responisbility but you have no idea what kinds of things your H said to her. You have no idea to what extend he convinced her that it was only a matter of time until he would be done with the marriage and ready for the new love of his life. It's much like the lies he would tell you when he was pulling away and you noticed and you tried to confront him. I'm sure there were a lot of excuses coming from him as to why his behaviour was as it was and you believed him, it was believable... You still haven't answered my question: are you saying that if it weren't for the OW your husband would not have cheated on you?
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Yeah it takes two people to engage in an affair and the fact that the OW chose to stay in the A with your H is her responisbility but you have no idea what kinds of things your H said to her. You have no idea to what extend he convinced her that it was only a matter of time until he would be done with the marriage and ready for the new love of his life. You still haven't answered my question: are you saying that if it weren't for the OW your husband would not have cheated on you? Actually, I DO know what kinds of things he said to her. I know exactly what he wrote to her, I read the emails. He basically said she should find herself a nice single guy because he was not leaving our marriage, but you go right ahead and keep making those assumptions, it's your MO. And yes, if it weren't for the advances made by this particular woman, I have no doubt whatsoever that he would be faithful to this day. True, he didn't have to respond to those advances, but he sure wasn't out looking for anything on the side. What started as a flirtation ended with her proclaiming her love for him and him wondering what the hell he had gotten himself mixed up in.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 You have no idea to what extend he convinced her that it was only a matter of time until he would be done with the marriage and ready for the new love of his life. It's much like the lies he would tell you when he was pulling away and you noticed and you tried to confront him. I'm sure there were a lot of excuses coming from him as to why his behaviour was as it was and you believed him, it was believable... ? Who are you talking about here? He never told her he would be done with our marriage, that she was the love of his life and he never pulled away while I noticed and tried to confront him....I think you are very, very confused. Perhaps you're thinking about YOUR mm and his wife, because this is so not how it went down in our situation.
annabelle75 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Actually, I DO know what kinds of things he said to her. I know exactly what he wrote to her, I read the emails. He basically said she should find herself a nice single guy because he was not leaving our marriage, but you go right ahead and keep making those assumptions, it's your MO. And yes, if it weren't for the advances made by this particular woman, I have no doubt whatsoever that he would be faithful to this day. True, he didn't have to respond to those advances, but he sure wasn't out looking for anything on the side. What started as a flirtation ended with her proclaiming her love for him and him wondering what the hell he had gotten himself mixed up in. ok ..... this is were what you say this the wall for me. I think you are chosing to blind yourself to the reality of what actually happened. Your husband flirted with and cheated on you with another woman. If it hadn't been with that particular woman, it probably would have been with another. If all it took was another woman flirting with him to get him to stray, then the reality is the OW wasn't the real problem. Now .... I in no way look down on you for staying with him. The fact that you both have chosen to work thorugh this together and save your marriage is admirable. I have no doubt it hasn't been easy on you. My only concern is that you seem to believe or at least want other to believe that everything is fine and dandy and he wouldn't have strayed if it hadn't been for the OW forcing herself on him. It seems very naive and to be honest I don't think you feel that way deep down. I think you just wish that were the case. I actually wanted to send you a pm to discuss a few things with you and to even get your point of view on a few subjects but you haven't enabled pm in your profile. If you change that I would like to have the opportunity to chat some time.
Tomcat33 Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 And yes, if it weren't for the advances made by this particular woman, I have no doubt whatsoever that he would be faithful to this day. True, he didn't have to respond to those advances, but he sure wasn't out looking for anything on the side. What started as a flirtation ended with her proclaiming her love for him and him wondering what the hell he had gotten himself mixed up in. Most A are not sought after, by either party.... they just happen. JUST so you know.... To say that he wasn't looking for it is NO excuse. In fact it's down right LAME. Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it all go away... The other day I wasn't looking to eat some chocolote, but I was at the check-out counter at the grocery store and it was looking me straight in the face. Before I knew it I had wolfed the whole thing down, I almost ate the wrapper too. I think I will go back to the grocery store and get them to ban all chocolates, it's just not good for my figure. Good intentions pave the road to hell.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Sure Annabelle, I'll enable my PM's...but I'm not sure how?
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 Most A are not sought after, by either party.... they just happen. JUST so you know.... To say that he wasn't looking for it is NO excuse. In fact it's down right LAME. . Just so we're clear, I by no means excused him, just ask him. I definitely put him through the wringer, in fact, I initially left him. We've also had a lot of counseling. I wouldn't want you to think I just said "Oh no sweetie, I know that big bad evil woman enticed you into her lair.." Puhleeze. They both knew what they were doing.
Impudent Oyster Posted May 25, 2007 Posted May 25, 2007 the PM's so they're enabled, but I've got to go out for awhile so I'm not ignoring you, I'll be back in about 3 hours.
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