Competing needs...argh, what is neediness anyway?

[serial muse]

This might get a bit long. But the bottom line is, I guess I want to know what people here think might constitute “being needy” in a relationship vs. a reasonable amount of “speaking up for your needs.”

 

In a nutshell, I’ve been dating my BF for nine months or so. (He’s 44, I’m 36). He has admitted that he’s emotionally high-maintenance, partially as a result of childhood issues with his parents (who were neglectful). He’s also never been married, but has had a couple of long-term relationships – with women who, he admits, were generally willing to give a lot more emotionally than they got. The flipside is he either fell out of love with them, or never loved them at all.

 

My story is, I’m divorced, had a cheating husband and have been dealing with self-esteem and trust issues for the past few years as a result. I’ve worked hard at it, but one thing that I still struggle with is emotional distance – I find that I often want to “take the temperature” of the relationship if it feels like something’s off (I find it hard to just trust that it’s not about me). In the past, I might have been more willing to sit back, or (more likely) to feel confident that he’s with me because he wants to be. But thanks to the cheating, that illusion’s gone now; I’m only too aware that you may never really know what’s going on with someone, and many people are just too afraid of confrontation to tell you outright.

 

Still, I’ve tried hard to keep my fears and insecurities to myself. But a few months ago, they leaked out – during a time when he was acting quite cold and distant, without much explanation (said it was work, which it may well have been), I called him on it – basically, wrote a note saying how it made me feel and that I needed more consistency.

 

Now he's saying I’m needy (well, specifically, he says we both are; the problem is, it’s always part of a conversation that sounds like he thinks two needy people are one too many in a relationship).

 

It’s hard to refute what he says because, well, I guess I might be; I mean, I certainly have needs, and I know I’m still dealing with my past. I get emotional about it, and still feel a lot of hurt and insecurity. What I don’t know is if the actual needs I express to him are unreasonable. I tend to think he’s far more demanding in a practical sense than I am; basically, I just want to feel loved consistently, which means I’m happy if he tells me he loves me, oh, once a week or every other week, puts his arms around me every now and then, holds me at night. That about does it. I don’t expect him to just know these things; I have been very direct about how I feel, and tell him, “I like when you do this” and “this makes me feel good” because I don’t expect anybody to read my mind. I think he kind of resents me telling him what I need, however - basically, it makes him feel like he's not doing a good job of being a BF or something. And yet...how else can I get my message across???

 

He, on the other hand, wants me to be able to read his mind and know when he feels/needs something from me, to draw him out, to pull him out of a black mood, to listen in a careful way that makes him feel cared about – a list of rather specific things that he knows is long but considers essential. The most frustrating part is that he won’t tell me what exactly makes him feel good. He wants me to just know. I think that's a lot to ask (certainly no one's ever expected me to read their mind before!), but I also think he's worth it, so I have tried hard to meet those needs and make him feel cared about in those ways.

 

He hasn’t got much experience of what it’s like to be with someone who asks him to step up equally, however (he admitted that). But yet, I still feel like I’m somehow being unreasonable when I ask for him to do things for me in return. Because it feels like he does resent it, and it also feels like he considers it a character flaw in me or something.

 

I know I’m listing only negatives here, and there are many wonderful things about this relationship. I love this man, and he loves me. But it seems this needy thing is getting in the way, and I don’t know how guilty to feel about it. Somehow, I’m feeling a lot of guilt, and yet that also feels unfair.

 

I guess I need some perspective here. Anyone have any thoughts on neediness, and what it truly is?

[dropdeadlegs]

I think the word "consistently" is key here. You didn't say "constantly" which would imply neediness, IMO. Consistency can be displayed through words or actions, or both. If you sometimes feel the need to "take the temperature" of the relationship because the consistency has changed, or disappeared, that seems pretty normal to me. After all, the biggest tip to a relationship breakdown of some kind is a change in the norm, right? Sudden changes.

 

SM, honestly I think you are one of the most healthy people I have come across in this forum. We all have certain areas that bring our insecurities out, but I feel like you have a good handle on yours. IMO you do not come across as needy, but I suppose we all have different definitions of neediness.

 

I consider myself on the high maintenance side when it comes to physical and verbal displays of affection. My BF calls me twice daily when I don't see him. He tells me at least twice in every phone call that he loves me. Do I need him to call daily? Do I need to hear "I love you" in every call? No, but if that changed suddenly, I would be sensing a change in the "temperature." Thus, I would posting something of this nature.

 

Actions and words, and a combination of them working together. I need that, and I definitely need consistency. I cannot read minds, I'm sure you can't, and he can't reasonably expect you to. From what you posted, it sounds like expressing your needs is "neediness" in his eyes, but I think it's communication. You express like/content when he does certain things that I find to be normal expectations, and state when you aren't "feeling" the love. I don't find that unreasonable at all.

 

Taking this one step further, I believe that when an aspect of one partners life (such as work) is overflowing into the relationship in a negative way (like physical/emotional absence) it is the responsibility of the partner that seems to be withdrawing to make sure the other partner understands that it has nothing to do with them personally. I just think that is common courtesy. We all get overwhelmed by one part of our lives, but how we handle it makes a big difference in the toll it takes on all the other parts.

 

Not sure any of this answered your questions or helped at all, but I think you're normal and coping better than many.

[serial muse]

Thank you, DDL. I took a few days to think about your reply and my situation, and try to absorb things a bit.

 

I really, really appreciate your words. In fact, they made me cry a bit...it's somehow really nice to know I sound normal and like what I want is reasonable. It's still so hard not to doubt myself, and I admit, I'm not always sure this relationship is helping in that regard. Demonstrative he's not.

 

It's funny, what you say about "constantly" vs. "consistently" - I think that, in his mind, it might well be "constantly," because he's so unused to people asking for anything at all in that way. So in a way, it's a matter of perception: My consistently is his constantly.

 

I also tend to see what I'm saying as "expressing" my needs - I rarely demand anything, and generally have been very tolerant of his quirks. I know I should ask for equal tolerance - but I feel blocked by the way he sometimes sounds doubtful that there's enough room for everyone's needs in the relationship.

 

I don't know. Perhaps we're a mismatch. Perhaps he simply isn't interested in offering me what he wants for himself. Perhaps he doesn't know how. It's hard to know whether to be patient or to walk away...I love him for his other qualities, but sometimes it feels like my heart's breaking very, very slowly because I don't know how he feels and I can't stop the doubts until (after a week or two) he says something sweet again.

 

Maybe I just can't handle a Capricorn man.

 

I don't know. I am tired, I guess. But sometimes I think that if I just had more confidence in myself, I wouldn't worry so much about what he's thinking, and would just sail blithely on with my life. That's where I wonder if I'm being needy - because I find that I do need reassurance, and solid indications of love. Not every waking minute, but yep, I need 'em. I just don't know what to think about it all.

[dropdeadlegs]

SM,

 

I sure wish you had gotten more perspectives from others, so I'm bumping you up at a time when many are online or will be shortly.

 

I understand feeling your heart break a little at a time, I did that for years with a man who was uncommunicative in almost every way. My verbal AND physical needs for attention went by the wayside very quickly. he was an awesome provider and we had more money and more things than I had ever had before, or have had since, but I was so unhappy. The house was nice, the new cars were nice, but I felt so alone, and in many ways I was alone because he worked so much and was always tired when he was home....unless there was a golf quartet waiting in the wings.

 

I know what makes me happy now, and it has little to do with material things. I'm emotionally happier just eking by but I have so much more affection and attention, and we don't even live together. No, he's not perfect, but I can find little to complain about.

 

Still, I don't see you as particularly needy based on hundreds of posts you have written and I have read. I see you as very fair and level headed. If you have struggled with this issue, talked about it, and have seen little improvement, maybe he truly doesn't know how to give you what you need.

 

I hope you get more insights from others, I think your thread got lost in the shuffle.

[Storyrider]

Thanks for bumping this DDL, I just saw it for the first time.

 

SM, ideally, meeting each others needs should bring happiness. If I love you, I want to meet your needs, right? Unless the needs are unreasonable. He is trying to tell you that your needs are unreasonable, but it doesn't sound like it to me. My question would be, why is he so stingy with you?

 

It isn't as though you're asking for hourly or even daily reassurance. Why can't he tell you more often? It worries me. If he feels it, it shouldn't be so hard to say it. Is there a power struggle going on here that is making him resistant? Does your asking make him feel resentful like a belligerent teenager?

 

My next question would be, if he won't give what you need and you stay with him, are you undermining yourself over time, by sucking it up and accepting less than you want and deserve?

 

It sounds like he wants you to be the parent who gives, and he wants to be the child, who receives. And he is also claiming that his other women were willing to put up with that.

 

Is he saying he won't change?

[Trialbyfire]

I've just noticed this thread as well and read through some of the good advice already given. Not much more I can add except that survivors of cheating tend to need more than they did before, especially with consistency. It was the difference in consistency that caused our gut instincts to react, thus able to catch our exes in their indiscretions.

 

SM, it's not unreasonable to ask someone for consistency. I feel it's not reasonable for someone in a serious relationship, to question whether they have enough inside them to give. If he's always looking to you to give, where's the balance?

[polywog]

Hi SM, I just saw this thread, too (good move, DDL!) and the posts have been excellent.

 

It's given us all food for thought, and certainly has made me think about my recent LTR. I was the giver, and constantly told him how much I appreciated him, and told him I loved him. Not in an icky gushy way. In an honest heartfelt spontaneous way. I rarely, if ever, got the same in return, and settled for little crumbs. If I'd been in your position of being cheated on the way you were, I'd have probably bailed out before he broke it off.

 

He knows what you went through, it seems to me that he'd be loving enough to understand that you need a bit of extra tenderness, which you certainly deserve and should expect.

[serial muse]

Hi all...thanks so much for all your thoughtful replies. You guys are great.

 

So I've been quietly thinking a lot this week...I guess the one thing I'm plain stuck on is whether he's just not sure how to make me feel secure, but would if he could, or whether he's just not that into me.

 

The thing is, I suppose that if I'm this chronically unhappy and worried about it, and can't seem to find a way to make it better, then perhaps it doesn't matter which of the two it is, in the end. It's like Story said - I don't know why he's so stingy with me...except that I'm almost positive it's not just me. From what I have observed, he's like this with everyone (family, friends, previous exes); very afraid of appearing vulnerable I think.

 

But you're right...although I don't want him to be hurt, I don't want to be hurt anymore either. So I guess that's not really a good enough excuse anymore.

 

It's funny about the infidelity. I did try to explain, but it's as though my explanation turned to water and just ran out of his ears. I don't think it's intentional; he just doesn't get it. And, sadly, he's not the first BF I've had post-divorce who didn't seem to "get it" when I tried to explain the subtle ways in which you need support. There are the obvious ones - please don't flirt outrageously with people! - but then there are the subtle ones...consistent signs of affection being one. I don't know if it's just impossible to explain unless someone has experienced it. But the bottom line, as many of you said, is that he should be able to come through anyway.

 

Ah well. We're going away on a long holiday this weekend together, which, with all this angst, I feel apprehensive about, I admit. But I think it'll be a turning point - if I find that I spent three days feeling vaguely unhappy, then I think I'd better pay attention.

 

I'll post an update afterward...

[Star Gazer]

SM, I'm afraid I don't have anything else to offer than what's already been provided. Hopefully I'll be of some use once you post your update.

 

Have a GREAT weekend!!!

[dropdeadlegs]

My fave ladies have chimed in!

 

I hope your weekend give you answers, SM. Answers are all you need.

[Trialbyfire]

ddl

 

I hope it all goes well this weekend SM. If you feel like sharing how it went, we're here to listen.

[justagirliegirl]

I have this thread bookmarked as it is quite interesting as I have been in a similar situation.

 

I think about my ex and he wasn't stingy with his love in the beginning. He did all the right things so that makes me believe he DOES know how. It hurts thinking that for whatever reason he chose not to do those loving things anymore.

 

Why would someone be stingy with their love? Do they not realize that you get hurt and fed up and eventually leave them?

[polywog]

ddl

 

I hope it all goes well this weekend SM. If you feel like sharing how it went, we're here to listen.

 

DDL and TBF:love:!

 

Yes, let us know how it went, SM:love:!