Touche Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Perhaps so, perhaps not. Review my post to Tanbark for my reasons of not wanting to change my name. Wonderboy seems to know what he wants. That's how I saw it at the time. The two of you need to discuss it together and see where you can meet. Most often people will either find some form of compromise or one will capitulate. Whatever works for the two of you. With all due respect, TBF, I don't ned to review your post. It's not rocket science. I get why you wouldn't change your name. I stand by what I said though. If it came down to a problem and the man had to "force" the issue then in my opinion the couple is NOT compatible. Their values would be too different for them to make it. They would most likely have problems in other areas. You said "perhaps so, perhaps not." I disagree. It smacks of incompatibilty to me and I'm not even sure how you can say "perhaps not."
Mr. Lucky Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Submission is NOT part of the equation. If I'd wanted a submissive wife I certainly wouldn't have married the one I have. One of the things that attracted me to her from the day we met was what I call her "delightful independence." Submission simply involves deferring to your partners judgement and wishes. Not all the time, not always on the same subject and not always by the same person but where reasonable and appropriate on the part of both spouses. Without it, hard to envision a good relationship or marriage. Come on, Curmudgeon, don't you "give in" once in a while? Aren't there some things that are more important to your wife than they are to you? I submit that, in those cases, you submitted Mr. Lucky
Trialbyfire Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 With all due respect, TBF, I don't ned to review your post. It's not rocket science. I get why you wouldn't change your name. I stand by what I said though. If it came down to a problem and the man had to "force" the issue then in my opinion the couple is NOT compatible. Their values would be too different for them to make it. They would most likely have problems in other areas. You said "perhaps so, perhaps not." I disagree. It smacks of incompatibilty to me and I'm not even sure how you can say "perhaps not." Touche, I wasn't doing the superiority thing about reading my post so don't think of it that way. I wanted you to know why I didn't want to change my name but still did it because it was such an important matter to the ex. I consider myself the opposite of what you stated. I changed my name for him and yet...we were incompatible.
shamen Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I plan to add a second last name. Personal opinion as I like my name (and professionally, I agree, too hard to give up) and I would also like to have his. He has said that he's more than cool with that! My sister kept her name and when they had a baby, the baby took the last name of the father. Seems to me that this is fairly commonplace these days...
Mr. Lucky Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I stand by what I said though. If it came down to a problem and the man had to "force" the issue then in my opinion the couple is NOT compatible. Their values would be too different for them to make it. They would most likely have problems in other areas. I agree 100%. If they can't agree on this fairly minor issue - and if they can't even agree on whether or not it's "minor" - what's their chances of dealing with the bigger issues that will inevitably present themselves ? Mr. Lucky
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Come on, Curmudgeon, don't you "give in" once in a while? Aren't there some things that are more important to your wife than they are to you? I submit that, in those cases, you submitted It ain't submission. It's compromise for the greater/common good! "A rose by any other name..."
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Feminists think that a woman is a doormat if she treats her husband like anything but garbage so I am just speaking from what trends tell me.. If so, then by your own definition, you're a wuss!
Woggle Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 If so, then by your own definition, you're a wuss! Hell no. My wife is no way shape or form a feminist.
green-eyed beauty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Feminists think that a woman is a doormat if she treats her husband like anything but garbage so I am just speaking from what trends tell me. If her sister is the exception so be it. It's just when you start bashing my twin sister, it's getting kind of personal. I mean...I was just giving a case where a woman didn't change her name and it didn't negatively affect the marriage. I mean any marriage, who knows what it will be in 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, no one can predict, but I do know that my twin sister is a kind, polite, intelligent person. She was making all the money when her husband decided to pursue his dream of going to culinary school, and went into the business with him...and she was making a decent salary in her previous career. Personally I would want to let go of our last name because my father cheated on my mother when we were really little, so my mom divorced him and then he married one of his OW, and adopted her 2 kids as his own and gave up visitation rights to us (because his new wife wanted him to). So to me, it's just a name and when I get married, I'll probably go with my hb's name.
Woggle Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I doubt you could "handle" one! I wouldn't want to handle one.
Woggle Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 It's just when you start bashing my twin sister, it's getting kind of personal. I mean...I was just giving a case where a woman didn't change her name and it didn't negatively affect the marriage. I mean any marriage, who knows what it will be in 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, no one can predict, but I do know that my twin sister is a kind, polite, intelligent person. She was making all the money when her husband decided to pursue his dream of going to culinary school, and went into the business with him...and she was making a decent salary in her previous career. Personally I would want to let go of our last name because my father cheated on my mother when we were really little, so my mom divorced him and then he married one of his OW, and adopted her 2 kids as his own and gave up visitation rights to us (because his new wife wanted him to). So to me, it's just a name and when I get married, I'll probably go with my hb's name. I am not bashing her but she fits an archetype. She does sound like one of the exceptions though.
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I wouldn't want to handle one. That would take strength, understanding and compromise. My wife is/was one of the original '60s, bra-burning feminists who went on to become a certified birth instructor and midwife. As a true feminist, she didn't see feminism as a battle between the sexes but rather as a means to achieve equality for women which they richly deserved. They still do, and it's no threat to real men. It's a reasonable partnership, and even a kinship.
a4a Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 That would take strength, understanding and compromise. My wife is/was one of the original '60s, bra-burning feminists who went on to become a certified birth instructor and midwife. As a true feminist, she didn't see feminism as a battle between the sexes but rather as a means to achieve equality for women which they richly deserved. They still do, and it's no threat to real men. It's a reasonable partnership, and even a kinship. Hey you are alright for an Old Fart! :love:
Woggle Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 That would take strength, understanding and compromise. My wife is/was one of the original '60s, bra-burning feminists who went on to become a certified birth instructor and midwife. As a true feminist, she didn't see feminism as a battle between the sexes but rather as a means to achieve equality for women which they richly deserved. They still do, and it's no threat to real men. It's a reasonable partnership, and even a kinship. According to her movement she is selling out to the patriarchy for simply being married to a man so she is not a real feminist.
Touche Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Touche, I wasn't doing the superiority thing about reading my post so don't think of it that way. I wanted you to know why I didn't want to change my name but still did it because it was such an important matter to the ex. I consider myself the opposite of what you stated. I changed my name for him and yet...we were incompatible. I guess I'm saying it could be a red flag. Other factors of course determine compatibility. I just think that's a biggie. Look on this thread we have examples of women who changed their names and the marriage failed and we have women who didn't and the marriage is succesful. Many factors play into compatibility. I just think it's something to watch out for. Perhaps, since you feel so strongly about your name you shouldn't have given in on that matter with your ex. I'd venture to say you gave in regarding other equally important matters, no? See this can be a compatibility barometer of sorts. I wanted to hyphenate my name again the second time around because my name IS important to me. It's PART of my identity..not my entire identity. H didn't want me to do that. I understood his reasons and my compromise was to make my maiden name my legal middle name. And that's how we solve any conflicts we have. We compromise. It's never all his way or all my way.
green-eyed beauty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I am not bashing her but she fits an archetype. She does sound like one of the exceptions though. She does consider herself a feminist but she isn't going to meetings and such, and bashing men (unless it's an individual).
Trialbyfire Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I guess I'm saying it could be a red flag. Other factors of course determine compatibility. I just think that's a biggie. Look on this thread we have examples of women who changed their names and the marriage failed and we have women who didn't and the marriage is succesful. Many factors play into compatibility. I just think it's something to watch out for. Perhaps, since you feel so strongly about your name you shouldn't have given in on that matter with your ex. I'd venture to say you gave in regarding other equally important matters, no? See this can be a compatibility barometer of sorts. I wanted to hyphenate my name again the second time around because my name IS important to me. It's PART of my identity..not my entire identity. H didn't want me to do that. I understood his reasons and my compromise was to make my maiden name my legal middle name. And that's how we solve any conflicts we have. We compromise. It's never all his way or all my way. I did give in on some but not others. At the time, I felt that we had a good compromise of give and take. Fooled me, eh? Anyways, I can understand why you did what you did since I also did the same. Wow, how many dids can you fit in a doing sentence? I only wanted to state that everyone has to view their situation and decide from there. It should never be a situation of "must" based on gender.
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 According to her movement she is selling out to the patriarchy for simply being married to a man so she is not a real feminist. ...is neither true feminism nor her "movement."
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Hey you are alright for an Old Fart! :love: "...Thanks for noticing me!
Curmudgeon Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Hey you are alright for an Old Fart! :love: "...Thanks for noticing me!"
Storyrider Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I just read the first and last pages of this thread, not the middle. I took H's last name and kept mine as my middle name, like Touche did. It felt more like a family to all share the same last name. However, it was important to me to have the middle name b/c my H's last name is very Irish and mine is very Jewish. Didn't want to lose that entirely. But I don't use the middle name in my signature or on my checks or anything, it is just too multisyllabic. But sometimes when I introduce myself and people know I'm Jewish I say, "Hi I'm Story Blahblahblah, a nice Jewish name." It gets a laugh.
Author IpAncA Posted May 22, 2007 Author Posted May 22, 2007 Wow you guys I wasn't expecting this many replys. I'm going to have to sit down and read all of this but I'll respond to this one. Generalizations are generally useful. Nothing good comes from generalizations unless it's 100% true and there is no way it's wrong. If someone is going to generalize, make sure you include hard core facts that include EVERYONE. First is IpAncA female or male? (or neither?) Nice. Do I have a 4th choice?
tanbark813 Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 Nothing good comes from generalizations unless it's 100% true and there is no way it's wrong. That's a generalization.
green-eyed beauty Posted May 22, 2007 Posted May 22, 2007 I think it should be totally up to the woman since it is her name she has to live with, not up to the guy she's marrying.
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