Taking the last name

[serial muse]

Likely a good hunch at that. Somehow traditional marriages, as a concept, have survived for thousands of years. Newer isn't always better, is it?

 

One of the main reasons we're moving out of California and to the south-east when I retire in a few years is to return to an area that does a far better job of preserving history and tradition than is done on the left coast. Here, if it's over 10 years old it gets torn down to make way for something newer and I'm not only talking structures.

 

Hmmm - I dunno about this. I guess it depends on where in the southeast (I'm from there)...there are lots of places where they have little regard for long-standing structures, for better or worse.

 

Topic...I find this topic fascinating. I think the thing I find most interesting is that, before hearing it discussed here on LS (and in that previous thread that I linked to earlier in this thread) I never realized that men might become so emotional about whether women change their names or not. This is not a criticism; it's actually quite eye-opening and that emotional response makes a lot more sense than a flat "tradition" argument, to my mind. Tradition is generally apropos of nothing, because the baseline of what's "traditional" is always in flux, always changing. Tradition generally just means, what you're used to and possibly grew up with, which isn't much of a compelling argument (speaking as a one-time historian).

 

But truly, it honestly surprised me that men might care so much about this issue, or take it personally. That has been enlightening, and understanding that there's a core emotional response from the guy's side has changed my perspective on it somewhat, and made me more compassionate about it.

 

Personally, I'm not sure what I would do. If it mattered that much to a man I was going to marry - to the extent that he got as visibly upset as I'm picturing many of the men here getting - well, even the (very valid, in my case) argument that I have published extensively under my current name wouldn't necessarily stop me from changing it. I just don't consider it a dealbreaker. Ultimately, I think it should be about who cares more, and, if both partners care equally, I don't see why there can't be a fair discussion about it. It's entirely possible that my partner would care more, and then I would change it.

[Curmudgeon]

What feels a little bit missing from this debate is some empathy from the men who are very adament about tradition.

 

If you go back a read my very first response, way at the top, you'll find that my objection to my wife keeping her former name was because it was another man's other than her father's; the "product" of her former marriage. I wasn't having it! Had she wished to keep her maiden name, which she uses as her middle name (very traditionally) I would not have strenuously objected.

 

You make a valid point about women marrying later, holding onto their maiden names longer and many establishing themselves professionally by those names.

 

Of course, there's always the compromise of sharing the husband's last name domestically while still using the former name professionally. Both can be done legally.

[a4a]

Likely a good hunch at that. Somehow traditional marriages, as a concept, have survived for thousands of years. Newer isn't always better, is it?

 

One of the main reasons we're moving out of California and to the south-east when I retire in a few years is to return to an area that does a far better job of preserving history and tradition than is done on the left coast. Here, if it's over 10 years old it gets torn down to make way for something newer and I'm not only talking structures.

 

 

You should realize that many of the SE states also rank very high in the category of reported domestic violence- murdered women. Georgia is ranking 7th at this time (this week from the paper), I believe the last report on SC was 1st in murders against women, and 3rd in domestic violence. http://www.statehousereport.com/columns/04.0815.violence.htm

North Carolina murder women 9th ranking in 2002

 

 

 

Not a whole lot of time to run down individual "reported" stats....reported vs actual is a consideration as well. Traditional marriages are indeed alive and well in the South :lmao:

 

As for growth I believe Charlotte is one of the top rankings for new arrivals.... the whole SE is now the new hot spot to tear down and rebuild.

[Curmudgeon]

...the whole SE is now the new hot spot to tear down and rebuild.

 

I've lived in Alabama, North Carolina (twice), Georgia, Kentucky and Virginia (twice) and my wife has lived in Arkansas and Florida. It's not just about structures for us.

 

We've been researching potential spots for a couple of years now and since I'll retire in three we're starting to travel to see and spend time in them and continue narrowing them down. We're steering clear of large urban areas and concentrating on towns and villages. We're also looking at spots further north.

 

Oh, yeah. I've also lived in Texas twice and my wife has lived there once. Not up for consideration!

 

My retirement plan has always been ABC -- Anywhere But California. I want to move back to America.

[Totoro]

Ok, I haven't read this WHOLE thread, but here's my 2 cents...

 

I know SO many couples wherein (?) the woman didn't change her name. It's so common nowadays. I don't know why everyone is analyzing it so much. All this anger from the "traditionalist" men is surprising to me.

 

To me, it has nothing to do with the woman's love for her husband or anything...it's just a way to assert her individuality and a little nod to feminism (NOT "Femi-nazi-ism" ) and modernity.

 

That said, it's really a no-win situation. If a woman keeps her own name, she's keeping her FATHER'S name anyway, as some people have pointed out. If you hypenate, things can get hairy and unpronouncable--and what if your hyphenated kid marries another hyphenated kid and then THEY hyphenate? Changing the name is still problematic for many women, including me. I just can't look at it as anything other than sexist. But since no other option is perfect, I guess it's every couple's choice to make on their own...

[tanbark813]

So I can really empathize with the struggle that some women feel over this issue. And I wish the men could empathize more too.

 

I think that if those women want empathy then they should at least offer up empathy to the fact that a lot of men really have a problem with the wife not taking his name and not just brush it off as macho BS. It seems that with a lot of issues--not just this one--women seem to think their feelings are more important than men's for some reason.

[serial muse]

I think that if those women want empathy then they should at least offer up empathy to the fact that a lot of men really have a problem with the wife not taking his name and not just brush it off as macho BS. It seems that with a lot of issues--not just this one--women seem to think their feelings are more important than men's for some reason.

 

Ahem. See my post!

[tanbark813]

Ahem. See my post!

 

Yeah, I saw yours after I posted. Good for you.

[bab]

I thought long and hard about this issue when I got married, and my H kept saying he was supportive of whatever decision I made. I could tell he perferred that I take it though. I eventually decided to change it so that we could be the Blank's. I liked the idea that OUR family would have it's own name. One of my male mentors who is in his mid 60's thinks it was a bad decision for my career. He's probably right, but my career is less important to me than my family.

 

So, I changed it and went through most of the hassel. The day I got my new driver's license I forgot to show it to H. We were in bed and I told him I got it, he jumped out of bed turned on the light and went to find it. When he saw it, he started crying he was so happy. I hadn't realized until that moment how much it meant to him, yet he knew it was a tough decision for me and told me that he was fine with it if I didn't change it. It was at that moment that I knew we were going to make a great team. :love:

[a4a]

I think that if those women want empathy then they should at least offer up empathy to the fact that a lot of men really have a problem with the wife not taking his name and not just brush it off as macho BS. It seems that with a lot of issues--not just this one--women seem to think their feelings are more important than men's for some reason.

 

not like she is stating that HE HAS TO TAKE HER NAME.

 

 

 

If that was the case I would have empathy for the man with his panties in a bunch having a name that is not his being forced on him.

 

and nothing pisses me off more when my mail has his last name on it. :lmao: It is not my name.

 

Did you ever see Roots and the whole name/whipping scene?

[tanbark813]

Did you ever see Roots and the whole name/whipping scene?

 

If you consider marriage akin to slavery then you've made some poor decisions in your romantic life.

[green-eyed beauty]

I tend to think that a woman and man who had a disagreement over whether she took his last name or not, would not have lasted very long in the dating stage. An open-minded man would most likely be with an open-minded woman, and a guy who is controlling and insisted that his wife to be had his last name or he wouldn't marry her would be with a passive woman who wanted to be controlled.

Personally it's all just a name, so who cares, it is such a small issue and has nothing to do if a relationship is strong between a couple or not.

[tanbark813]

An open-minded man would most likely be with an open-minded woman, and a guy who is controlling and insisted that his wife to be had his last name or he wouldn't marry her would be with a passive woman who wanted to be controlled.

 

I'd like to see how "open-minded" that woman would be when the man decided that the engagement ring was traditional BS and decided not to give her one because he didn't want to mark his territory or be controlling. Then all of a sudden traditions would be important and "control issues" would be out the window.

[a4a]

If you consider marriage akin to slavery then you've made some poor decisions in your romantic life.

 

not to do with slavery but your own self.

 

some people identify and hold their own names dear, just as you would.

 

Perhaps the whole not taking the name is actually a cause of embarrassment to some men. "the woman is not doing what she is supposed to do"....?????

 

My H has no issue with it, not an issue at all that I do not want his last name.

But I certainly do have an issue with taking his.

 

So worked out just fine.

And if I were a guy and divorced a cheating scuzzbucket woman I think I would want to demand that she change her name back and not use mine.

[sunshinegirl]

I think that if those women want empathy then they should at least offer up empathy to the fact that a lot of men really have a problem with the wife not taking his name and not just brush it off as macho BS. It seems that with a lot of issues--not just this one--women seem to think their feelings are more important than men's for some reason.

 

I agree with the first sentence. I think there's a lot of merit to the "one family name" unity and it is worth exploring both peoples' feelings on the matter. My original comment was a response to what seemed to be very strong lines drawn in the sand by a couple of male posters, where there seemed to be only consideration for their own feelings and the importance of tradition... and what I read as a general air of dismissiveness toward the potential struggle women feel around changing their names.

 

Your second sentence seems to be a bit of a generalization, no?

[tanbark813]

Perhaps the whole not taking the name is actually a cause of embarrassment to some men. "the woman is not doing what she is supposed to do"....?????

 

It's interesting that you always attribute a man's feelings to some evil motive. There's nothing inherently wrong with a man desiring his wife take his name.

[a4a]

It's interesting that you always attribute a man's feelings to some evil motive. There's nothing inherently wrong with a man desiring his wife take his name.

 

First of all I never ALWAYS think there is an evil motive :lmao:

 

and embarrassment is not evil....

 

so a guy feels stupid because his wife wants to keep her own name.... where is the evil there?

 

I mean come on Tan..... that is not evil motive it is about a feeling some men may actually have....... to be embarrassed about it.

[sb129]

I kept my name for professional reasons. My degrees are in my name and my most important one is in my name. Everyone knows me by my orginial last name so I decided to stick with it. Plus my last name is unique. No one outside of my family has it and never will. I guess I felt it was important to keep my orginial name.

 

Now I do have my bother who could pass down the name IF he ever has children but he's almost 30 and still single. I doubt he'll be getting married and having children soon. He's neglecting his name duty and it's ticking me off.

 

Hey snap. Me too. I am not married tho, but thats what I will do if it happens.

 

Didn't read the whole thread, this is just my two cents.

 

AS you were.

[tanbark813]

First of all I never ALWAYS think there is an evil motive :lmao:

 

and embarrassment is not evil....

 

so a guy feels stupid because his wife wants to keep her own name.... where is the evil there?

 

I mean come on Tan..... that is not evil motive it is about a feeling some men may actually have....... to be embarrassed about it.

 

I'm talking about the "she's not doing what she's supposed to do" crack. Not all men are like that.

[tanbark813]

Your second sentence seems to be a bit of a generalization, no?

 

It is definitely a generalization and it is, of course, not always the case (e.g., post #76 by serial muse). But it is something I've noticed both on LS and in my personal experience.

[a4a]

I'm talking about the "she's not doing what she's supposed to do" crack. Not all men are like that and quite frankly your annoying little overuse of smilies makes you look like an immature idiot.

 

of course some other men may judge a man on the fact his wife keeps her own name..... she is not doing what she is supposed to be doing= embarassament.

 

Now get over your PMS already. :p:p:lmao::lmao: (< immature bout of happiness over took me there sorry) :lmao::lmao:

 

and if you want to insult me feel free..... well never mind...... but

 

I keep seeing a penis with a ring around the top of it.

[Curmudgeon]

YEAH! I'm talkin' to YOU, fella.

 

We men don't have feelings, dontcha know? We're not entitled to 'em. That's a wimmin thang!

[tanbark813]

of course some other men may judge a man on the fact his wife keeps her own name..... she is not doing what she is supposed to be doing= embarassament.

 

And some men may not give a s**t about what others think but genuinely see a woman taking his name as a sign of creating something bigger than their individual identities and see not taking his name as a form of rejection. Unfortunately, too many women (I'm guessing yourself included) will just brush that reasoning off as not being true or as macho BS or attribute it to some "controlling", ulterior motive. Furthermore, I would wager that a woman's willingness to take her man's name is directly proportional to her respect for men in general.

[tanbark813]

YEAH! I'm talkin' to YOU, fella.

 

We men don't have feelings, dontcha know? We're not entitled to 'em. That's a wimmin thang!

 

Dammit, I keep forgetting that class from Man School. What was I thinking?

[a4a]

YEAH! I'm talkin' to YOU, fella.

 

We men don't have feelings, dontcha know? We're not entitled to 'em. That's a wimmin thang!

 

well than why not a compromise if both people felt so strongly about using their names?

 

I agree, I would never force my name onto a partner.... if indeed it was that important to them to keep their own. I would never want to do that to them.

 

Nobody ever said men don't have feelings... my question is why is the whole name thing so important? Tradition..... sure but why? Or other reasons, such as other people thinking your wife is lacking either love or respect for you? This is a question not an assumption.