Author Star Gazer Posted May 23, 2007 Author Posted May 23, 2007 He's possibly on to another woman by now though. Ok, that's just rude. The point of this is to make me feel BETTER, not worse. And I happen to know he's not. He's off in the wilderness fighting a fire with 300 other men.
oppath Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 If he's off fighting fires with 300 men, that means he's also showering afterwards in locker room showers with 300 men! And those are the situations where you come back with some kind of disease that sounds like a candy, like Skittles.
Sheba Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Like a snowball effect, these posts have already built this guy up to be the biggest cad in the universe - and maybe he is - but only direct contact and a proper honest canvassing of issues with him will get Star Gazer closer to the truth. I really don't feel certain he is the "biggest cad". In fact, I have a little doubt in my mind. Maybe he is a confused dolt? Perhaps his ex got to him and he is somewhere snivelling at her feet? In fact, it is that bit of doubt which prompts me to encourage that SG send him a civil "you are excused" letter, with only a slight undertone of F**K off. If I were sure he was the Cad of the Year I would be helping SG figure out a way to get him into contact with someone carrying a rash or worse. Further, that SG was so enamoured suggests to me that this man is at some level a decent person. I do not accept the dim view of men that some of you propound! Part of my aim, were I SG, would be to give this man a little shot to the conscience.
Tenorman Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 I agree with you Sheba. Also if there is any kind of remotely justifiable excuse for not calling someone, surely fighting fires would be it! Perhaps as a less judgmental half-measure Stargazer could send an email regarding the firefighting - that she saw it on TV and that she hopes he is safe etc and see if that triggers some sort of mature friendly response from him.
green-eyed beauty Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Ok, that's just rude. The point of this is to make me feel BETTER, not worse. And I happen to know he's not. He's off in the wilderness fighting a fire with 300 other men. Not really rude, considering that male posters were on here posting at how they would react "Oh, HER again, why would SHE call?" Especially Krytellan's? How come he is not rude by posting open and honest possibilities but I am not?
green-eyed beauty Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 Ok, that's just rude. The point of this is to make me feel BETTER, not worse. And I happen to know he's not. He's off in the wilderness fighting a fire with 300 other men. Not really rude, considering that male posters were on here posting at how they would react "Oh, HER again, why would SHE call?" Especially Krytellan's? How come he is not rude by posting open and honest possibilities but I am not? People were posting he could be a "player" and that is how they operate. I wasn't being rude at all. Anyway...he has a fulltime job, doesn't mean he's not corresponding with women...but I guess a guy can post basically the same things, and because you can flirt with them and get the male attention from a messageboard, it's OK if they are brutally honest, but female posters are "rude" when they give straight up advice. The very reason why I posted that was exactly why I wouldn't contact the guy in your situation, he may be onto another girl, and I don't want to have to hear that in a call or email.
green-eyed beauty Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 OK, here it is. I'll be him. La de da... here I am going about my life. Man, I got her... What's this? She wrote me an Email? What the hell did she write me an Email for? Hmm. He reads Email, laughing the whole time. What a freak. She is still thinking about me. Me communicate with you??? Haha, what the hell is she talking about? I don't give a ****. Damn girl... move on. I got what I wanted. Damn, I cant believe she still wants me so bad... She's freakin desparate. I wonder if I should schmooz her a little bit so I can "get her" again. At this point it sound slike I could get anything I want from her. Details may vary, but the reaction will be along these lines. YOU look pathetic, and he doesn't feel bad at all. If that sound slike an ideal situation, by all means, spill your feeling to a guy who DOESNT GIVE A F*CK. Go for it Star. How are any of the above statements acceptable, if my simple statement of "he's probably onto the next woman by now anyway" perceived as SO rude that you call me out on it? Gotta admit, when I read this, I thought it was pretty harsh, and you appreciated it. So..I was unabashedly honest, also. OH, but that's right, I'm not a guy.
norajane Posted May 23, 2007 Posted May 23, 2007 That's exactly how I feel. I want that satisfaction. Perhaps it's a little immature, but that's how I feel right now. Thing is, you won't get satisfaction. You think you'll feel better if you tell him goodbye, but you know he's already said goobye to you by not contacting you. So you saying it to him - no matter how you word it - won't be satisfying because you know the truth - he said it first and he did so in a disinterested, disengaged way instead of being upfront with you. How about something to the effect of :"The lack of contact from you over the past week has troubled me. Naturally I assume you no longer wish to pursue a relationship and though I am somewhat disappointed, I respect your choice. I will continue to think fondly of you and wish you well." Dooormaaaaat. She's acknowledging that she's hurt (troubled implies hurt or upset), that she's still thinking about him, that she is just now getting it that he wants nothing to do with her, and that she will finally leave him be...alll the while thinking 'fondly' of him and wishing him well (you can be a rude jerk and hurt me and I'll still like you!). Sorry, but he didn't do her the courtesy of dealing with her honestly. Any message along these lines is just going to sound doormat-like. In fact, it is that bit of doubt which prompts me to encourage that SG send him a civil "you are excused" letter, with only a slight undertone of F**K off. Why should she excuse him? He didn't ask to be excused.
Tenorman Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 The fear of being the doormat is really the ego getting in the way.
Author Star Gazer Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 The fear of being the doormat is really the ego getting in the way. I don't follow. If sending that message would make me a doormat, and I do want to send it, ... ??
This_Too_Shall_Pass Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Allright, Stargazer, time out. You've been dragging this on and on, hon. You'll get a thousand opinions on what to do, but in the end you either write him that note or you don't. My advice is still that you don't do it. But that's just me saying it, because I'm not in your shoes right now. I'm trying to think what I would do if I were you. Yes, I would definitely want to get the last word in, and even expect an apology for his lame behavior. But would I really contact him? Well, I sure would try my best not to. All of us here are trying to give you an objective point of view, and I think the majority of us agree that it's not a good idea to write him anything. For one thing, he's out fighting a fire, so he wouldn't reply for at least another week, if at all. In the end, it's upto you. You want to write out a note and send it to him really bad? Fine, do it. Just keep in mind that any action on your part will have consequences that you have to be prepared to deal with. Enough of this. Just either do it or don't do it. Like they say, it's time to either sh*t or get off the pot.
norajane Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Nora - in my house, "you are excused" is a dismissal. It is what I say to my kids instead of "get out of my sight you are driving me insane". That may be so, but when people say "excuse me", they mean "forgive me for what I just did". I see what you're getting at, but he's not your child and doesn't know you and your methodology. I don't think any message you send is going to be seen as the dismissal you intend it to be. Dismiss him with silence. As he's already done with you.
Sheba Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Green-eyed - I too thought your earliest comment was meant to be hostile. In the midst of all this careful advice about whether or not StarGazer should send a message to this man, your statement seemed out of place, abrupt and calculated to hurt. You say in explanation that you did not mean to be rude, but then you become so overtly hostile that it over-rides the superficial logic of your explanation, and one is back to the certainty that you intended to be rude all along. I am so confiused. Stargazer, I think Tenorman's point is that you should risk your ego to find out what is going on with this man. I do not agree. I think it is clear the man is "done" with the relationship and why that is so is not important - just morbid curiousity. For myself I would send a message without the intention to begin a correspondence, but for actual closure.
Author Star Gazer Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 Yeah, I don't think I'm going to send him anything. Honestly, between TTSP's brutal honesty and Krtyie's hilarious account of what he'll be thinking if I do/don't, I think it's best to just leave it be. I'm not an arsehole, so I'm not going to behave like one. I think deep down he's a decent guy. But he's clearly not decent enough for me. That said, I WANT that closure. I WANT that satisfaction. I WANT to dismiss him. But I'm not going to get it. I think I WILL regret it if I send him ANYTHING, no matter how it's phrased. Not immediately afterward, but later. And I don't want to have any regrets...I'll leave those for him.
Author Star Gazer Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 To those of you who provided heartfelt advice, thank you. I know I can be grouchy sometimes, and a little crazy, but I really do appreciate the worldwide support. :love:
green-eyed beauty Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Green-eyed - I too thought your earliest comment was meant to be hostile. In the midst of all this careful advice about whether or not StarGazer should send a message to this man, your statement seemed out of place, abrupt and calculated to hurt. You say in explanation that you did not mean to be rude, but then you become so overtly hostile that it over-rides the superficial logic of your explanation, and one is back to the certainty that you intended to be rude all along. . No, I was being "brutally honest." It is a brutally honest possibility he could be seeing someone else. I didn't appreciate being called rude. Also, I did use the word "possibly" when I stated he could be onto his next victim. How is that rude, when Krytie outright said she would look pathetic and he would be laughing at her? I was just opening her up to the possibility that since he has been called a "player" on here a lot, he's probably onto the next. Another poster agreed. Did you read Krytellan's "brutally honest" assessment of how he would react? Yet SG thought that was "funny." He basically said the guy would think she is a pathetic loser if she emailed. How is that funny?
This_Too_Shall_Pass Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 To those of you who provided heartfelt advice, thank you. I know I can be grouchy sometimes, and a little crazy, but I really do appreciate the worldwide support. :love: See, you have so many fans and friends here on LS. HE doesn't. Loser, loser... So let's leave him to fight his own fires, shall we?
Author Star Gazer Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 See, you have so many fans and friends here on LS. HE doesn't. Loser, loser... So let's leave him to fight his own fires, shall we? I'm not sure he has many fans period, other than his FF buddies - who apparently call him "negative." Hmph, another sign.
Kamille Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 SG! I am so sorry this happened to you. I actually just read the whole thread because in its own way it really speaks to what I am going through right now but I want to focus on this comment you made: Lihsy - I hear ya. He's not over his ex, and as a result he's not interested in a relationship with me. It's like I had an epiphany over the weekend. I'm bummed (more like disappointed) but I'm okay with it. I had a very long talk with my ex about this actually. He and I are good friends, and can talk openly about anything now. He knows me, and I know him. Anyway, I called my ex because I realized that my ex did the same thing - this distancing technique, while still actively RESPONDING to me (but not initiating). He had made a lot of the same comments or reactions to things involving his ex that my current guy has. My ex openly admitted to me that when he and I were together, he wasn't over her. He wanted to be, but he wasn't. This prevented him from allowing himself to really, truly "be" with me. He felt really guilty about it because he knew my feelings were growing stronger, but he was only growing more and more numb. Since we broke up last year, he's dated many girls, all for about 2-4 weeks, and as soon as he got intimate with them he'd lose all interest. The romantic fairytale dies each time once he comes down off of his love high and realizes they aren't HER and never will be. I do get the feeling that my guy isn't over his most recent ex. The one where he jumped up from the table to stop us from talking about her, his bitter comments, etc. I know he's been hurt. I could wait, but like my ex, I could be waiting forever..... Goodness do I know how you feel! I was dating this really sweet guy who well... is not over his ex. Another one. AGAIN. J-Christ do men ever get over their exes? I basically had a choice: be oblivious to the fact that he wasn't over his ex, or walk away. I decided I was walking away two days ago. I am reeling with the emotions. On the one hand, I am proud of myself for standing up for myself, you know? On the other... well, it's been two days and this man was probably one of the sweetest guy I ever dated and I can't help but envy the woman who will show up in his life at the right time with the right attitude but the fact is: right now, he and I, not meant to be. This I learned after getting involved with guys who weren't over there exes for the third time. I guess what I am saying is that the closure you are going to get from this will not come from him. In fact SG, this is not about him AT ALL. This is about us learning to be smarter about the men we let into our lives. Like, if they sound too good to be true, they probably are. If they say they're not over their ex, or if they are trying to convince themselves they are over their exes by telling us they are over their exes (bull!), the only thing to do is walk away. I realized I had nothing to prove by sticking around to get my heartbroken by this guy you know? Just as you have nothing to prove to this guy. He behaved like an a-hole. You know it. You deserve way more. You won't settle for less. The way I see it, the only person you really need to prove something to is yourself: and what you can prove is that you have enough respect for yourself to no waste your time on a jerk-as* when you see one. (Not that I'm saying it's easy to stop thinking about him -wish I had a cure for that).
Tenorman Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Star Gazer, what I meant is that sometimes pride and ego can stop us from taking a risk we should take because we're overly worried that we're going to look like a doormat, which really is an expression of a defensive fear of someone lacking in confidence. If you were to contact the guy in a friendly way and he ignored you, was mean to you, called you a doormat and told all his friends that you are a doormat etc that doesn't make you a doormat, it makes you a sincere person looking for the real deal and him a jerk. If your assessment of him (and only you can make the assessment) is that he will act like a jerk then don't contact him and just try to forget about him. If you think that he may actually be decent guy at heart and that you may be both labouring under a misapprehension or misunderstanding or mutual insecurities/fears that are keeping you apart then consider taking the risk of contacting him. I suggested a half way house - send an email about seeing on TV the firefighting and that you hope he is ok or that you admire his job or something along those lines and if he does not respond positively and warmly to that then definitely wipe him from your mind. The above does assume that deep down you want him back and are yearning for him. I can't help but gain that impression but accept I may be completely wrong about it, in which case ignore me!
Author Star Gazer Posted May 24, 2007 Author Posted May 24, 2007 The above does assume that deep down you want him back and are yearning for him. I can't help but gain that impression but accept I may be completely wrong about it, in which case ignore me! No, you're right. That's how I feel in my heart. However, I'm trying my damndest to use my HEAD instead right now, ya know? My head says move on, be done, close the door, leave him wondering. My heart is something completely different. But since I have a tendency to be one of those crazy-in-love girls who think totally irrationally when it comes to matters of the heart, I'm focusing on the rational-head aspect of this drama.
BenefitOfTheDoubt Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Star Gazer, what I meant is that sometimes pride and ego can stop us from taking a risk we should take because we're overly worried that we're going to look like a doormat, which really is an expression of a defensive fear of someone lacking in confidence. If you were to contact the guy in a friendly way and he ignored you, was mean to you, called you a doormat and told all his friends that you are a doormat etc that doesn't make you a doormat, it makes you a sincere person looking for the real deal and him a jerk. I very strongly agree with this. He hurt you. Why is it such a terrible thing for him to know that? I wouldn't recommend calling him up and freaking out on him or anything like that, but I wouldn't dissuade you from having a calm conversation with him just letting him know that what he did kind of sucked. Agreed, as well, with Tenorman's last comment about his impression that deep down you still want this guy back. I've done the last-ditch-effort phone call thing, and when I'm completely honest with myself, part of my motivation for placing the call was to kind of re-set the clock. Sure he hasn't called in five days, but I just called *him*, so it's kind of like we're back to it being only a couple hours since he started ignoring me. It's faulty logic, for sure, but we tend to grasp for straws in these kinds of situations. All that said ... I don't know, I had a similar thing happen around this time last year. Had a great couple dates with a new guy, spent the night at his place (no sex), he was super sweet the next morning, walked me to the subway station, gave me a hug and a kiss goodbye, asked me to call him when I got home to let him know I made it alright ... he didn't answer the phone when I made that call, and he never called again. After a week, I called him and left him a short message saying simply, "I've got the feeling you're blowing me off. Which makes me sad, but what can you do? If, by chance, something's come up where you haven't been able to contact me, I'd still like to hear from you. But in the more likely scenario that you've moved on ... I had a good time with you and wish you well in the future." The thing was, he actually called back after that. But it turned into a watch what you wish for kind of situation, because both of the times I saw him after that, I ended up spending the entire evening worrying that he was just going to blow me off again. And sure enough he did. So in the end, I really succeeded only in peeling off the scab that I'd begun to develop after the initial week of no contact and kind of prolonging my agony an extra three weeks ... So I guess all that is the long way of saying make sure you examine your motivations. If you really and truly just want to let the guy know that he hurt you or somehow get in the last word, go for it. (I would recommend calling though, rather than emailing.) Who cares what he thinks of you? But if you're hoping you might still get together, it might be best to let it go. Whether or not he responds to your attempt at contacting him, the end result will likely be the same -- either immediately or after a couple more weeks of worrying every time you say goodbye to him that that's the last time you'll ever hear from him. Relationships just shouldn't be this hard this early. And regardless of *all* of this, I'm really sorry that you're going through this. Most of us have been through something like this (most of us probably more than once) and it's just such a crummy way to feel. It likely doesn't feel this way now, but it does get much, much better!
green-eyed beauty Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Star Gazer, what I meant is that sometimes pride and ego can stop us from taking a risk we should take because we're overly worried that we're going to look like a doormat, which really is an expression of a defensive fear of someone lacking in confidence. If you were to contact the guy in a friendly way and he ignored you, was mean to you, called you a doormat and told all his friends that you are a doormat etc that doesn't make you a doormat, it makes you a sincere person looking for the real deal and him a jerk. If your assessment of him (and only you can make the assessment) is that he will act like a jerk then don't contact him and just try to forget about him. If you think that he may actually be decent guy at heart and that you may be both labouring under a misapprehension or misunderstanding or mutual insecurities/fears that are keeping you apart then consider taking the risk of contacting him. I suggested a half way house - send an email about seeing on TV the firefighting and that you hope he is ok or that you admire his job or something along those lines and if he does not respond positively and warmly to that then definitely wipe him from your mind. The above does assume that deep down you want him back and are yearning for him. I can't help but gain that impression but accept I may be completely wrong about it, in which case ignore me! Actually, that is an excellent idea I did not consider. Calling or emailing to hope he's doing well and to raise his spirits during the fire.
EnigmaXOXO Posted May 24, 2007 Posted May 24, 2007 Stargazer, John and I just had an interesting discussion regarding your situation, and it was really surprising to see how differently our perspectives were on it. As a female, I’m with the majority here who say “don’t contact him. Let him contact you.” Although I would have probably been numpty enough to pick up the phone the very next day just to say, “Hey, what’s up?” Especially if I had no clue whatsoever that anything between us was even off. I’ve never read the dating rule book so I just go by what feels right and genuine to me. However, I can imagine how awkward it might start to feel as more time passes. Wondering: is he going to call me, or should I call him? I think I might be going into panic mode just like you, starting to imagine that I’d been played. In that case, there would be no way I’d risk my dignity any further by chasing after the guy. I’d just assume leave him wondering, too. Now how pathetically childish is that (???) But John sees it differently. He reminded me that a week really isn’t that long. He said that sustaining some dignity is a “guy thing”, too. That if this guy pursued you so heavily in the beginning, while you were playing “hard to get,” he may also have some apprehensions about looking pathetic if he calls too soon. He also mentioned that he may be getting a little misguided “relationship coaching” from his well-meaning buds. Now I say ... Let the guy pursue you if he’s really interested. And if he doesn’t call, gather your dignity, vanish gracefully, and move on to bigger and better things without all the drama. John says ... Don’t make such a big deal out of one week. It’s only been a week. Just call the guy as if nothing’s wrong and catch up like usual. Be yourself. And if there’s something amiss, if he avoids answering or returning your call ... THEN you’ll have your answer. I agree with him in respect to the fact that the more time you allow to pass, the more awkward it will become for both of you. Who knows ... maybe the guy’s wondering why he hasn’t heard from you either. (???) Hope I haven’t succeeded in confusing you even more. But whatever you decide to do ... please don’t go into panic mode, yet. And don’t deal out the “Goodbye and don’t ever contact me again” card until your absolutely sure it’s the only hand your left with.
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