Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Um...NOT okay to say, che_jesse. I have no interest in telling you my own story, but suffice it to say that you have no idea what you're talking about, and there's no need to go about insulting perfect strangers by calling them b!tches. Also, your assertion is, of course, not 100% true. I'm sorry that you personally have had negative reactions to your pregnancy, but your posts on this topic have been highly antagonistic, and I suspect that may be as much the reason for such reactions IRL as anything else. Or perhaps you are thinking of specific friends/family members who have not reacted well to your pregnancy. That's a shame, but extrapolating those reactions past that small group is just nonsense. Lovelace...I know it's hard, given the hysteria (no pun intended) that always surrounds this issue, but you do have plenty of time. Truly. And from what I can tell, including from reading on here, there's a wide variety of feeling among men, as among women, as far as wanting to get married. True, no one wants to feel like they're the "last resort." But you are so far from being at that point...it's easy to say, but you really don't need to panic or latch onto the next guy who comes along, just because he's "there". Here's the funny thing..I already live with a man that has kids! (he's 37)..we're just friends and have been for 10+ years, well ok we "dated" a little when we were both a lot younger...anyway, I'm supposed to move in August. I have gotten close to his kids though. And I've gotten used to having him around. Sometimes love 'em, sometimes hate 'em, like a marriage I guess. I do care for him very much, and even love him. I think if I wanted to, I could keep them all. I love him so much, yet I always remember the qualities he lacks in my dream guy....then I realize the good qualities he possesses, the ones that other guys don't have. It's all too confusing...perhaps this is "it" for me...but since we're not "together", it's too hard to know. I keep pushing myself to keep looking, but it could actually be right under my nose. I just dont know. It's a whole other thread and lets not talk anymore about it! I would also like to know examples of those who act "bitchy" towards younger adults with families...can't say I've ever witnessed this.
serial muse Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Certainly. I got the brunt of it when I was 22-23 and pregnant with my first. I was a full time college student at the time and my husband was just starting his first entry level Electrical Engineering job. Because it was such a transitional time in our lives we were around a whole lot of different people from very different group. At first it was this specific set of women, they were all women that my best friend at the time would date, he was 30 and divorced and was eagerly looking for wife #2. He dated a LOT, my husband and I had a key to his house and we were there just about always. It was almost over night but as soon any of those women found out I was pregnant the attitude would switch, it would go from "yay lets be friends because your the best friend of the guy I'm trying to get with" to "we shouldn't hang out anymore <evil stare> followed by something like "I'm really happy I had those 5 abortions, I hate kids." OK, I thought to myself, maybe Andy just picks weird jerks to go out with. Whatever. Then when I started to show it started with older women it really should not have happened with, I can think of 5 different TA's in my classes that were like that. Graduate students, female, super nice before and bitches when they saw I was pregnant. There are dozens of examples incidents but one specific one is: TA gave these lame journal things we had to do every day and bring back the next day, the class was required for all engineering majors and it was a communication class. Its pretty low on everyones priority list and she knows that, the journals are just opinion essays about various ethical questions and all of our responses had to be about a page long. All semester long she would just give me an A on all of them and I don't even know if she bothered to read them. As soon as she found out I was pregnant I stated getting back papers with C's and D's on them and notes like "You are obviously distracted" or "You are not making this a priority". It was obvious bullshilt. This one I took to the actual professor that ran the class, he fired the TA. He was a grandfather of 15 and sent me some of the nicest baby gifts I got. (Reading the TA thing it looks long so I wont talk about any more of them, but there were 4 more, I can tell you about them later if you are still interested) Peoples general attitude just changed, now younger women did it as well, along with younger men, but not older men (this was my original point). and certainly not everyone, but the demographics that had a problem with kids certainly made themselves known. There were dozens of older women that felt the need to give me lectures about how I need to first have a carrier. They seemed to plug up their ears when I would explain to them that the choice to start our family then had nothing to do with not having a carrier, My husband was staring his, I'm a full time student and only have to be gone from the baby I was breastfeeding for two days out of the week. My research was done from home (I had a wonderful professor I worked under at the time) and we lived in a city with both of our families and both sets of grandparents and all of his siblings that were breaking down my door to babysit. Each and every one of the older women that were lecturing me that heard this got literally angry at me for wanting to have family members babysit those two days out of the week. According to them I HAD to put my child in day care with strangers that don't care about her because anything else was me "pushing off the responsibility of someone else". This made no sense to me at all, I would much rather have my children with people that love them then random daycare teachers. But people that felt the need to make this point were VERY rude about their opinions, mind you that none of them had kids. There were at least 20 such conversations that took place during my pregnancy and SO many more then that after our daughter was born. People also started working in random rude statements about: * How happy they are to have had abortions * How they never want to have a "parasite" feed off of them * How they don't know what they would do if they had a retarded baby and had to "end it" (people say this with a certain tone) * How its wrong in their opinions to bring children into a world where they are certain to be raped The list just goes on and on. I'll stop writing because this is getting to long, but if you want more let me know. Of course if you dont do any of these things to pregnant women then you are obviously not one of the rude bitches I'm talking about so stop takeing offence people. No, this is a cop-out. Your statement: I can also conclude that women that do not get married when they are young enough to do so and have time to start their families are for the most part, bitter children hating bitches. is a generalization. And while your experience sounds awful, I have to tell you, I have never heard anything like it in my life. I have many friends and acquaintances and family members, who had babies in their 20s, 30s and 40s, and have many friends and acquaintances and family members with no children at all, and I have never heard ONE woman say anything like what you are describing here to any of the other women. Not one. Not ever. I don't know who those women are, but they are certainly not representative of "most" of the world, I can tell you that. Saying that they are - and that is, in fact, what you said, "exceptions" aside - is akin to Woggle saying that all women are out to get men, with the notable exception of those who aren't. I hope you can see that that's just false. Sorry for the crappiness of some people, but that doesn't make it okay to categorize a whole group of people in a highly offensive way. And saying, "if it doesn't apply to you, don't take offense" still doesn't make it okay. It's a way to lash out at those who hurt you, but it just creates more hurt and a bigger divide. Better to bridge the gap and create understanding, wouldn't you say?
Trialbyfire Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Sometimes people are overly sensitive from their own feelings of inadequacy, which is usually unrealistic, btw, therefore they apply these feelings towards seeing more than the speaker or the other person intended, in their responses. Also, people undergoing the massive hormonal changes from being pregnant, can sometimes also be overly sensitive to what they feel are external pressures and opinions. I see it as another symptom like pickles with chocolate sauce.
a4a Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 I admit I made such a comment. Our friends 4ish year old pooped in the tub, and the other one 6ish? at the same time got out of the tub and shoved a whole roll of toilet paper down the toilet... new roll.......jammed it and flushed the toilet a couple of times. He was complaining about his plumbing/tub issue and I said "Thanks for reminding me that I made the right decision not to have kids" He said "I should have done the same" As for professors or others in the college situation....... perhaps they were thinking that you were not serious about a career and taking a slot from someone who was. Student assistance (grants, scholarships) used on someone who is not so serious about a career? It is hard to get into college now, I think it would be a waste to apply/enter if you had no intentions of putting that degree to work. If someone is voicing an opinion about their own life or decisions it is not necessarily meant to insult or belittle you. If you say you don't like horses and never ever want to be in the same area with one, I am not insulted. Perhaps your hormones during and post pregnancy get the best of you? It does happen.
allina Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Che, you may have been one of those women who acted like you deserved some special treatment because you got pregnant. I respect your decision to be a mom, it's what you wanted but I don't think getting pregnant is some huge accomplishment. And at the risk of getting flamed, often when I see a young pregnant women I think that it's a mistake and that my taxes are going to end up feeding that kid. Yeah I know it's not always true, but MY opinion is that having a baby asap isn't the best decision.
Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 You know, there are younger girls out there who get pregnant just for the attention..they think and say its because they want to be mom, but its really just for attention, perhaps their own mommy didn't love 'em enough. These are usually the girls who expect the rest of the world to treat them like a queen just because they are pregnant. So if they don't get tip-top treatment from everyone else, they bitch. Don't worry about what other people think. Just worry about being a f***ng mom to that baby cuz it's a lot more important than your drama B.S.
Trialbyfire Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 When it really comes down to it, does it matter what other people think, as long as you're happy with your own life decisions? Also, many of the older women you're talking about might also have previously expressed these opinions but due to your life situation being different in the past, you probably ignored or shrugged them off. Being pregnant can bring out the best and worst in a woman. As a third party observer, I've seen it numerous times with my friends and family of varying levels of change.
VinaAmez Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Marriage. Is. A. Joke. I have nothing but regret. All I did was screw myself completely and royally. If you really like someone, sure stay with them but do NOT get married. It all wears off after awhile. I care for my wife very much, but **** happens and I am sorry I married her. I wish I could walk away free and clear but I can't . It's way too complicated for that now for that. Sounds like being trapped in a broken fairytale.
Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Sounds like being trapped in a broken fairytale. Person can't possibly be this angry just because of things "wearing off"...sounds to me like someone's been badly hurt...
VinaAmez Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Person can't possibly be this angry just because of things "wearing off"...sounds to me like someone's been badly hurt... Oh I'm sure there's more to the story.
che_jesse Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Oh I'm sure there's more to the story.[/Quote] Yeah the guy has it rough. This was the thread and theres been some other stuff after it: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t92223/ How do you tell your wife you just can't stand her anymore? I love her but I just can't stand her. I feel controlled all the time. God forbid I try to stay up passed 10 P.M. and don't go to bed with her. She makes me feel like a bastard for wanting to stay up a little bit. She is not working because of all her "ailments" so I am the sole provider. Back problems, migraine headaches, neck problems, sinus problems, insomina, and she is constantly going to doctors. I can't take it anymore! I so want to leave, but I don't want to put the kids through that. Maybe I should have put this in the rants section. I am just so tired of it all.[/Quote]
Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Guy sounds awfully resentful. I guess my question about men/marriage can't really have an answer...cuz everyone's experience is different; and their experiences can lead them to advise other people in ways that don't apply to them. I think what I wanted to know is, do most men WANT to get married like I do (eventually) or do they end up proposing out of obligation more than out of love?
sb129 Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 How is it offensive if its true and 100% based on personal experiance. The reaction that older single women give you when you are younger, married, and with children is far more bitchy and hateful then that of men, whereas younger people of both genders are equal in the number of hateful bitchy reactions. Tough **** if you take offence to that but you are probably one of the bitchy ones. This is not about not wanting kids. If you read my post I was speaking about the reactions that I got from people of various ages about the topic of children, and belive when I tell you that older women are much more hateful then men. That being said I really dont see how YOU can offer the OP any sort of advice, what you want in life is so compleatly differant then what she wants. You are wired compleatly differantly, you dont have a biological clock, you dont have a need to bring children into this world. What you do have is all the time in the world to mess around with as many people as you want on birthcontrol and then eventually settle down with someone when you get bored. You dont have a biological or enviormental need to do so. What a dreadful post. Che Jesse there is no need to taint this thread with your bitterness over what is an exceptionally unusual situation that I suspect you misread in your immaturity and hormonal state. For someone with a PhD you certainly dont come across as particularly articulate. Or compassionate for that matter. Some people CANNOT have children. What they say to you and what the reality is may be two different things. I wouldn't be quite so quick to judge if I were you. Being a mom of three and a PhD holder doesn't automatically make you a saint, OR give you the permission to be so offensive. See you just showed exactly how much you dont get it. Telling people that want children more then anything else in life to just sit tight and wait for it to come along is not going to do it. YOU can sit tight and wait because you dont have anyting to wait for. Other people are driven to make it happen. Um.... unless you have money, you actually need TWO people to make a baby happen. I think a4a has made some excellent points. Sometimes people are overly sensitive from their own feelings of inadequacy, which is usually unrealistic, btw, therefore they apply these feelings towards seeing more than the speaker or the other person intended, in their responses. Also, people undergoing the massive hormonal changes from being pregnant, can sometimes also be overly sensitive to what they feel are external pressures and opinions. I see it as another symptom like pickles with chocolate sauce. thats exactly what I was thinking. Che, you were probably one of those obnoxious pregnant women who acted like the world should kiss your ass and like you deserved some special treatment because you got pregnant. I respect your decision to be a mom, it's what you wanted but I don't think getting pregnant is some huge accomplishment. And at the risk of getting flamed, often when I see a young pregnant women I think that it's a mistake and that my taxes are going to end up feeding that kid. Yeah I know it's not always true, but MY opinion is that having a baby asap isn't the best decision. Word. When it really comes down to it, does it matter what other people think, as long as you're happy with your own life decisions? Once again, TBF, I bow down to your succinct voice of reason. Lovelace, I remember your situation now. What IS going on with that?? Alot of people may disagree, but if you do want a child THAT badly,there are ways of doing it alone? One of my female professors from uni adopted a child on her own, and they are very happy.
Woggle Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 The truth is that to most women men are just guests in our own families able to be evicted on a whim. It's one of the reasons that I keep hoping that my wife eventually decides that she doesn't want children. If she decides to walk out one day I can handle it but I don't want any future children to have to go through that.
Pyro Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 At this point, I think that Woggle only posts to get a reaction out of everyone. Dude, the same ole same ole women bashing posts are getting tiresome. We get it, you hate women.
Trialbyfire Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 Thanks sb129. Agreed Riddler. The sad reality is that deep down inside, I think that Woggle is a decent guy. He needs to learn to let go of his childhood fear and grow from it.
Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 For women who choose to use science in order to have children, and I mean in the case of which they have not found a Mr. Right, I think it's wonderful that they do so. But for me inparticular, I can't see myself doing this...if I have to it will be a very last resort. I'm a very independent person and already consider myself a strong career woman...and I"m totally comfortable living alone, going places alone...I'm an only child so I think it's just my nature. But like anything else, it gets old. I ultimately want to share my life with a special person--so it isn't about fixing my feelings of lonliness--I realize married people can feel lonely, too. It's about fulfilling my dreams. And a family is the only thing I don't have (other than my roommate and his kids!) so far. If I were to take the solo mom route, I'd be happy about the baby, but I know myself well enough to know that, I'd still feel pretty let down about not having the big picture. I could always date once I have the baby and lose the weight, right?! How depressing! I can just see myself, sitting home alone swelled up and pregnant with no one to whine to! No one to give me special treatment...or to share this miracle with you know the mushy stuff like preparing together,etc...it shouldn't sound like such a ridiculous expectation but apparently it is! I know marriage and children is not glamour that's for sure..but neither is single life, and I accept that so I don't think I expect everything about having a family to be hunky dory...it's just what I want. And who knows if I finally get it only to be miserable later in life...but if I grew old alone, that would be miserable too, so who cares! I wish it wasn't so unwise to tell a guy right upfront: "Look, I want a husband and babies. If your not up for it, have a nice life!"
Touche Posted May 18, 2007 Posted May 18, 2007 It's NOT unwise to tell a man that you want to get married and have a family. Not at all. Might as well weed out the wrong guys right away. There's no time to waste. I mean, I'm not saying to reveal that on the first date or anything but why waste time? If a man wants the same things as you do, that revelation won't scare him away...Just the opposite..if he's into you. Not sure if you read my post from earlier but I met a man who knew what he wanted and went after it. Fortunately, I wanted the same things. I can only wish the same for you. And it didn't happen for me until I was 33..so there's still tme. Stop worrying. Play it smart.
Author LoveLace Posted May 18, 2007 Author Posted May 18, 2007 Your right Touche, it shouldn't be a big deal to tell a guy what I want. But what if I'm on a 1st date and he asks me what I'm looking for? Do I say a relationship but leave out the ultimate goal? Would it be ok to just come out and say I'm looking for a relationship on the 1st date? From my experience, even a guy ready to settle down gets scared off easily, so I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them. Forgive me if you already said so, but have you and this man had kids or talked about having them? Are you worried about your ability to conceive at all? I know 30's isn't too old to start by any means, in society's view, but our bodies tend to work differently...I know people in their early 30's that just can't seem to get pregnant to save their lives. But there are just as many people who have no problems at all. I guess I worry too much about being one of the unlucky ones. How silly that I worry already when that time for me is still so far out. But I never expected to be here at this point in life, perhaps I'm just trying to come to terms with it. Maybe I only want that life so bad to make up for my own broken family...who knows..at least I can say I'm not an unhappy person right now. Quite content..just worried about the future. Thanks for your words!
sb129 Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 It's NOT unwise to tell a man that you want to get married and have a family. Not at all. Might as well weed out the wrong guys right away. There's no time to waste. I mean, I'm not saying to reveal that on the first date or anything but why waste time? If a man wants the same things as you do, that revelation won't scare him away...Just the opposite..if he's into you. Not sure if you read my post from earlier but I met a man who knew what he wanted and went after it. Fortunately, I wanted the same things. I can only wish the same for you. And it didn't happen for me until I was 33..so there's still tme. Stop worrying. Play it smart. Good post Touche. Your right Touche, it shouldn't be a big deal to tell a guy what I want. But what if I'm on a 1st date and he asks me what I'm looking for? Do I say a relationship but leave out the ultimate goal? Would it be ok to just come out and say I'm looking for a relationship on the 1st date? From my experience, even a guy ready to settle down gets scared off easily, so I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them. Forgive me if you already said so, but have you and this man had kids or talked about having them? Are you worried about your ability to conceive at all? I know 30's isn't too old to start by any means, in society's view, but our bodies tend to work differently...I know people in their early 30's that just can't seem to get pregnant to save their lives. But there are just as many people who have no problems at all. I guess I worry too much about being one of the unlucky ones. How silly that I worry already when that time for me is still so far out. But I never expected to be here at this point in life, perhaps I'm just trying to come to terms with it. Maybe I only want that life so bad to make up for my own broken family...who knows..at least I can say I'm not an unhappy person right now. Quite content..just worried about the future. Thanks for your words! LL, I met Wonderboy (my BF) online. On the site we both belonged to, there was a section to fill in whether you either HAD any kids, or wanted them in the future. I filled in that I wanted them in the future, and so did he, which is one of the reasons why he came up as a match for me. i wouldn't have considered meeting up with someone who didn't want children. so BF knew before we even MET, and he still didn't get scared away. have you thought about this option? At least you know that people who register with an online service for the most part DO want a relationship, otherwise they wouldn't register.
cutegirl Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 Men are more afraid of divorce than marriage. With the walkaway wife thing spreading like wildfire and more and more women cheating some men wonder if it is even worth the risk. All a woman has to do is snap her fingers and say she is not happy and a man can lose everything. It seems that relations between men and women are at an all time low and there is little trust between the genders so I feel for somebody like you that just wants a happy family. I hope you find it one day. Well, I make more than my boyfriend and if we were ever to get married and divorced I would be the one to loose because he doesn't have any assets to begin with. It's not ALWAYS the male who earns more, sometimes it can be the FEMALE as well. Anyways, I'm not a traditional woman. I don't even want to get married, I don't care for it, I'm more modern. I never "dream" about weddings like people pathetically assume most women do, I could frankly care less.
sb129 Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 Well, I make more than my boyfriend and if we were ever to get married and divorced I would be the one to loose because he doesn't have any assets to begin with. It's not ALWAYS the male who earns more, sometimes it can be the FEMALE as well. Anyways, I'm not a traditional woman. I don't even want to get married, I don't care for it, I'm more modern. I never "dream" about weddings like people pathetically assume most women do, I could frankly care less. You could always protect your assets with a pre-nup if you are that worried about it. Why do you have to put such a negative slant on things? People dont "pathetically" assume that all women dream of marriage, and if a woman DOES dream of marriage, whats wrong with that? So you don't- thats absolutely fine, but don't look down on people who do, thats unfair. Everyone is different, and their dreams are their dreams, and shouldn't be criticised.
cutegirl Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 You could always protect your assets with a pre-nup if you are that worried about it. Why do you have to put such a negative slant on things? People dont "pathetically" assume that all women dream of marriage, and if a woman DOES dream of marriage, whats wrong with that? So you don't- thats absolutely fine, but don't look down on people who do, thats unfair. Everyone is different, and their dreams are their dreams, and shouldn't be criticised. I never stated that it was pathetic to dream about marriage, "I said I never dream about weddings like people pathetically assume most women do", so as you can see, "pathetically", in this case, refers to the individuals that are ASSUMING things about women which may not be necessarily true. And I only brought up assets because someone stated earlier that it's usually THE MAN that loses assets in a divorce. I was making a point that in some cases women OUTEARN their spouses, a concept most people fail to comprehend. I get very offended when people automatically assume that men earn more than women. Well, at least not in my case.
sb129 Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 And I only brought up assets because someone stated earlier that it's usually THE MAN that loses assets in a divorce. I was making a point that in some cases women OUTEARN their spouses, a concept most people fail to comprehend. Yes I actually pointed that out earlier. Lots of women outearn their spouses these days. Its not that difficult a concept to grasp at all. And as I said, you can always get a prenup. People assume things all the time, its not pathetic, its a way of life. Why does it bother you SO much what other people assume or think? If people assume things and they are wrong, who cares? I get very offended when people automatically assume that men earn more than women. Well, at least not in my case.yes we know. I outearn my partner too, but you don't hear me going on and on about it.
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