The Truth about men and marriage?

[Asafan]

Marriage. Is. A. Joke. I have nothing but regret. All I did was screw myself completely and royally. If you really like someone, sure stay with them but do NOT get married. It all wears off after awhile. I care for my wife very much, but **** happens and I am sorry I married her. I wish I could walk away free and clear but I can't . It's way too complicated for that now for that.

[sb129]

Like I always say if what I say does not apply I am not talking about you but what I say is true of most women.

 

Look around and you will see that relations between men and women are horrible. We barely even like each other anymore. We are sexually attracted to each other but there is a cold war between men and women that makes it very hard for those that just want love.

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

it may be true about SOME women. But so say it is true about MOST is inaccurate and only YOUR OPINION.

 

I am looking around, and see ALOT of happy men and women, in R and platonic friendships. Where do you live? Tinseltown?

 

Sheesh.

[che_jesse]

When I got married and had my first child I was really shocked to learn how many people out there hate marriage, babies, or both. People are just flat out mean condescending about it sometimes.

 

 

As far as age breakdown goes it was the same number of younger men and women (18 - 25) but far more older women (25+), my husband and I were both college students at the time so believe me, we had plenty of people offer their opinions, in a school of 45k students everyone seems to have something to say.

 

 

From this I can conclude that men grow out of it in their mid 20's and those that really want to get married do, the ones that are left over into later years either:

A) Hate marriage and children

B) Are coming off a divorce, and this has its own problems

C) Are part of the very small minority of men that just have not met the one

 

 

 

I can also conclude that women that do not get married when they are young enough to do so and have time to start their families are for the most part, bitter children hating bitches.

 

 

I'm sure there are older single women that are not, and you certainly sound like you are not, but putting the two together you have a bunch of marriage hating men dating bitches. I can see how the very small number of decent men that have just not the one that are left would be put off by the whole idea after so much interaction with such people.

 

[allina]

I don't know, I sort of agree with Woggle about being able to count on one hand the number of happy couple I know. Most couples I see are a disaster and there is some crazy stuff going on, cheating, abuse, control issues and general unhappiness. A large number of relationships and marriages are unhealthy. Honestly when I look at most couples I think "wow, why are these people together?"

[sb129]

More generalisations!

 

but I appreciate some of your points Che Jesse.

 

I am old by some peoples standards, but I am glad I didn't get married just because I was young enough to do so. And I am not a child hating bitch, far from it! For some reason that ole biological clock has been going at it loud this year tho.

 

My BF and I have both been badly burnt in prev Rs... so we were single. Then we met, and its been great. Its as simple as that. I am glad I have had enough life experiences to appreciate a truly good man when he comes along. If I had met him any younger i may not have.

[allina]

I can also conclude that women that do not get married when they are young enough to do so and have time to start their families are for the most part, bitter children hating bitches.

 

Well I'm not going to even say what this makes me conclude about you

 

I don't think this has much to do with children. I dislike children, don't want any. However I am very loving to my SO and believe in marriage.

[Teddy and Jane]

Tell that to the men that lose the house to the wife...lose custody...and then have to go move into some crummy little apartment.

 

I know at least 4 guys in my town that this happened to...and it was their wives that were the cheaters.

 

Somebody has to move out, unless they decide to sell together, so it's not like they're "losing" the house. It's not like they're paying mortgage on the house they're not living in. Plus they have the opportunity to buy the house from their wife if they want to do so.

[LoveLace]

I can't see myself ever hating children, weather I have any or not. If I don't have any, I'll be so sad forever. I might be jealous of others who have them, but could never hate them.

[Touche]

More generalisations!

 

but I appreciate some of your points Che Jesse.

 

I am old by some peoples standards, but I am glad I didn't get married just because I was young enough to do so. And I am not a child hating bitch, far from it! For some reason that ole biological clock has been going at it loud this year tho.

 

My BF and I have both been badly burnt in prev Rs... so we were single. Then we met, and its been great. Its as simple as that. I am glad I have had enough life experiences to appreciate a truly good man when he comes along. If I had met him any younger i may not have.

 

Wonderful post SB. I've always told my H that had I met him before I did I would not have appreciated him the way I did when we met...and still do. Sometimes timing is everything.

[serial muse]

From this I can conclude that men grow out of it in their mid 20's and those that really want to get married do, the ones that are left over into later years either:[/left]

A) Hate marriage and children

B) Are coming off a divorce, and this has its own problems

C) Are part of the very small minority of men that just have not met the one

 

I can also conclude that women that do not get married when they are young enough to do so and have time to start their families are for the most part, bitter children hating bitches.

 

 

I'm sure there are older single women that are not, and you certainly sound like you are not, but putting the two together you have a bunch of marriage hating men dating bitches. I can see how the very small number of decent men that have just not the one that are left would be put off by the whole idea after so much interaction with such people.

 

Oh my God. What an incredibly offensive post. Thanks for that.

 

Look. Why isn't Woggle, or anyone else who often quotes this farcical 75% statistic, responding to the very obvious point that has been made about it, ad infinitum?

 

To wit: women file for divorce. That doesn't mean they are the ones WHO LEFT. Yes, I filed for divorce because my exH cheated. And I know plenty of people who were in the same boat. You simply cannot use this fake statistic in any meaningful way, Woggle. Please, for the love of God, retire it, unless you're willing to actually do some real work on it and figure out how many of those 75% of women filing actually left "on a whim", and how many filed because their husbands were to chicken-***** to be willing to look like the bad guys - even though they, in fact, were the ones who really left???

 

God, get your facts straight.

 

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP?

[LoveLace]

I've been told by friends, that for some people it just takes longer than it does for others, to meet someone. I can accept that. But if it takes so long that my eggs won't cooperate, I'll feel so angry. I don't want to be one of those women or couples who goes through all kinds of scientific methods and other ideas for having children...I feel so sorry for the women going through this, having a baby for them is like a pipe dream, kind of like me with marriage....and if I get married the next huge challenge will be trying to get pregnant..geez I should almost rid myself the risk of all this devastation and just convince myself I don't want or need any of it.

[a4a]

[

I can also conclude that women that do not get married when they are young enough to do so and have time to start their families are for the most part, bitter children hating bitches.

 

 

 

That is kinda, no, very insulting.

 

I guess I am a bitch because I don't want kids?

 

Didn't get married until late 30's........= bitch?

 

Not to be offensive but just because you make babies and get married doesn't make one a saint.

 

I work with kids...... for 5 months out of the year FOR FREE!

 

I don't want any in my home, but that certainly does not make me a bitch.

 

As for women and M, I had plenty of offers, just refused to settle...... My H pushed for this M. Not me, that does not make me a bitch either. It certainly makes me wise for not being a lemming and ending up with kids I don't want, or settling for something when I knew that I shouldn't.

 

Not everyone thinks having babies and getting married as the ultimate fulfillment.

 

If you do, good for you...... but at least be respectful of those that don't.

[a4a]

I've been told by friends, that for some people it just takes longer than it does for others, to meet someone. I can accept that. But if it takes so long that my eggs won't cooperate, I'll feel so angry. I don't want to be one of those women or couples who goes through all kinds of scientific methods and other ideas for having children...I feel so sorry for the women going through this, having a baby for them is like a pipe dream, kind of like me with marriage....and if I get married the next huge challenge will be trying to get pregnant..geez I should almost rid myself the risk of all this devastation and just convince myself I don't want or need any of it.

 

It almost seems that you are so set on babies and marriage that you may end up with someone you don't really want to share your life with.

 

I know a couple right now..... IVF, married because she wanted a family.... she now has a little boy and an ass of a husband she never really loved, but he just fulfilled a role in her "dream".

 

Set your eyes on other goals you have.....things will come along when they are supposed to. Don't be a lemming.

 

Be with someone for the right reasons.......not just to fulfill a role for you. You will regret it later.

 

Your only 30? Where is the fire?

[LoveLace]

That is kinda, no, very insulting.

 

I guess I am a bitch because I don't want kids?

 

Didn't get married until late 30's........= bitch?

 

Not to be offensive but just because you make babies and get married doesn't make one a saint.

 

I work with kids...... for 5 months out of the year FOR FREE!

 

I don't want any in my home, but that certainly does not make me a bitch.

 

As for women and M, I had plenty of offers, just refused to settle...... My H pushed for this M. Not me, that does not make me a bitch either. It certainly makes me wise for not being a lemming and ending up with kids I don't want, or settling for something when I knew that I shouldn't.

 

Not everyone thinks having babies and getting married as the ultimate fulfillment.

 

If you do, good for you...... but at least be respectful of those that don't.

 

 

I certainly don't think anything is wrong with not wanting kids. It's understandable, they are expensive and it's a tiring, stressful task to raise them. Even someone like myself, who thinks being a mother is my reason for being on earth, doesn't think this goes for everyone.

[a4a]

How is it offensive if its true and 100% based on personal experiance. The reaction that older single women give you when you are younger, married, and with children is far more bitchy and hateful then that of men, whereas younger people of both genders are equal in the number of hateful bitchy reactions.

 

Tough **** if you take offence to that but you are probably one of the bitchy ones.

 

 

 

This is not about not wanting kids. If you read my post I was speaking about the reactions that I got from people of various ages about the topic of children, and belive when I tell you that older women are much more hateful then men.

 

 

That being said I really dont see how YOU can offer the OP any sort of advice, what you want in life is so compleatly differant then what she wants. You are wired compleatly differantly, you dont have a biological clock, you dont have a need to bring children into this world. What you do have is all the time in the world to mess around with as many people as you want on birthcontrol and then eventually settle down with someone when you get bored. You dont have a biological or enviormental need to do so.

 

 

I can offer advice because I know many people including my dear friend that feels the way she (lovelace) does at the age of 38. And I can feel sympathy for her..... just as I can feel sympathy for someone with the opposite ideals.

 

I would not have to marry to have a child. I certainly would not get married out of boredom. I am quite capable of still messing around if I chose to- which I did do in my early 20's and had quite a bit of fun.

 

What is an enviromental need? People telling you to do so? Oh I got that crap my whole life...... still do get it...... when are you gonna have a baby?

Sorry I am not a lemming nor do I succumb to the pressures of others telling me what they think I should do with MY life.

 

 

Now if you are finished insulting people.....................................

 

Perhaps you're validating your own choices by insulting others? That is sad.

[a4a]

I certainly don't think anything is wrong with not wanting kids. It's understandable, they are expensive and it's a tiring, stressful task to raise them. Even someone like myself, who thinks being a mother is my reason for being on earth, doesn't think this goes for everyone.

 

Just don't settle.

 

It will come along for you.

Of course you don't want to date people that don't want kids. But it will happen.

 

What if you married someone that already had kids. Is that an option that may make you happy?

[che_jesse]

Something about lemmings being hot and me being awful for being a mother

 

See you just showed exactly how much you dont get it. Telling people that want children more then anything else in life to just sit tight and wait for it to come along is not going to do it. YOU can sit tight and wait because you dont have anyting to wait for. Other people are driven to make it happen.

 

My parents married after knowing eachother for days, they were madly in love untill the day my father died 32 years later. My husbands paretns got married young, well she was younger he wasnt (17 and 27), 30 years and 5 kids later they are inseperable and love each other more then ever.

 

There are lots of people out there that got married young because they want children and are still compleatly happy many years later. I'm sorry if you never saw that growing up, or think you need to be in your late 40's before you know what you want in life but that is just not the case.

[Teddy and Jane]

hmmm. I disagree with you. I am 38, and would like to get married and have children, but it has not happened yet. I am not bitter, I am hopeful and happy. I am not bitchy at all to women who are younger than me who have children. I have no reason to be. I just live my life and date, and if I meet the right guy, great. If not, it will happen when it happens.

Che Jesse, could you give me some examples of these times when women older than you are bitchy acting toward you?

[a4a]

See you just showed exactly how much you dont get it. Telling people that want children more then anything else in life to just sit tight and wait for it to come along is not going to do it. YOU can sit tight and wait because you dont have anyting to wait for. Other people are driven to make it happen.

 

My parents married after knowing eachother for days, they were madly in love untill the day my father died 32 years later. My husbands paretns got married young, well she was younger he wasnt (17 and 27), 30 years and 5 kids later they are inseperable and love each other more then ever.

 

There are lots of people out there that got married young because they want children and are still compleatly happy many years later. I'm sorry if you never saw that growing up, or think you need to be in your late 40's before you know what you want in life but that is just not the case.

 

No I do get it, just like there are things in my own life that I want. I also have goals and desires. They just are not children, and that makes me no less of a person than you, and certainly not a bitch.

 

And please read what I did post and don't misquote me with your own fill in's, obviously many people do get married just to get married and make babies because that is what they are told life is about.

 

But it is a sad day if you wake up and you find your dream has turned into a nightmare because you rushed into something to get your goal without seeing where it will end up leaving you.

 

Lovelace is still quite young...... time is still on her side....... that is my message to her.

 

And I have plenty of experiences with happy marriages, long lasting, wonderful marriages that I could reflect on - as well as the not so good ones.

[LoveLace]

Just don't settle.

 

It will come along for you.

Of course you don't want to date people that don't want kids. But it will happen.

 

What if you married someone that already had kids. Is that an option that may make you happy?

 

I would be perfectly happy to become a part of a man's family with his kids. But I think I'd always want my own child. Of course I'm capable of loving and treating step kids as my own, but the bond with my own would just be more satisfying and meaningful. I don't mind dating men with kids, I just hope they are willing to have more. I'm getting into the age group where a lot of men have already been there done that, and might want to marry again but are done with kids.

 

I would even be ok with co-habitating and having kids without marriage...I could learn to live without having "my day" if I was happy in a non-married parents situation. I do believe I'll meet someone...I just worry it'll be too late for my biological clock. I don't believe I'll end up settling out of desperation...cuz really I've chances to settle already. My friends say it's good that I'm "picky", so I try to keep that in mind; yet I try to realize if I'm being too picky. I'm an indecisive person in general --not a good characteristic to have while trying to find "The One"!!

[Trialbyfire]

Just don't settle.

 

It will come along for you.

Of course you don't want to date people that don't want kids. But it will happen.

 

What if you married someone that already had kids. Is that an option that may make you happy?

I 100% agree with this advice. Take your time to find the right one, otherwise you may end up with a lifetime of hell.

 

I'm 32 and about 99% divorced. I want children but not at the expense of settling. If he doesn't come along and I desperately want children, I will have them on my own before marrying someone who doesn't have the same focus.

 

che jesse, you're generalizing...unreasonably. It could be said that young parents like you don't make for stable family foundations. It's fact that most people in their early twenties are not yet fully developed as adults.

[a4a]

I would be perfectly happy to become a part of a man's family with his kids. But I think I'd always want my own child. Of course I'm capable of loving and treating step kids as my own, but the bond with my own would just be more satisfying and meaningful. I don't mind dating men with kids, I just hope they are willing to have more. I'm getting into the age group where a lot of men have already been there done that, and might want to marry again but are done with kids.

 

I would even be ok with co-habitating and having kids without marriage...I could learn to live without having "my day" if I was happy in a non-married parents situation. I do believe I'll meet someone...I just worry it'll be too late for my biological clock. I don't believe I'll end up settling out of desperation...cuz really I've chances to settle already. My friends say it's good that I'm "picky", so I try to keep that in mind; yet I try to realize if I'm being too picky. I'm an indecisive person in general --not a good characteristic to have while trying to find "The One"!!

 

Love you never know what are in the cards........ you could meet the man of your dreams, one who treats you like gold..... and he could end up being infertile, or you could....

 

On the upside you may meet someone next year, next month...... and have triplets. YIKES!!!

 

Obviously you love kids, and I really think if you were a step parent you would make a wonderful parent and bond with the child regardless if he or she carried your DNA.

 

Or you could adopt........

 

The important thing is what you can give to a child. What you want to give to them. Not that you have one to make yourself happy. IMHO.

[serial muse]

How is it offensive if its true and 100% based on personal experiance. The reaction that older single women give you when you are younger, married, and with children is far more bitchy and hateful then that of men, whereas younger people of both genders are equal in the number of hateful bitchy reactions.

 

Tough **** if you take offence to that but you are probably one of the bitchy ones.

 

Um...NOT okay to say, che_jesse. I have no interest in telling you my own story, but suffice it to say that you have no idea what you're talking about, and there's no need to go about insulting perfect strangers by calling them

b!tches.

 

Also, your assertion is, of course, not 100% true. I'm sorry that you personally have had negative reactions to your pregnancy, but your posts on this topic have been highly antagonistic, and I suspect that may be as much the reason for such reactions IRL as anything else. Or perhaps you are thinking of specific friends/family members who have not reacted well to your pregnancy. That's a shame, but extrapolating those reactions past that small group is just nonsense.

 

Lovelace...I know it's hard, given the hysteria (no pun intended) that always surrounds this issue, but you do have plenty of time. Truly. And from what I can tell, including from reading on here, there's a wide variety of feeling among men, as among women, as far as wanting to get married. True, no one wants to feel like they're the "last resort." But you are so far from being at that point...it's easy to say, but you really don't need to panic or latch onto the next guy who comes along, just because he's "there".

[serial muse]

The important thing is what you can give to a child. What you want to give to them. Not that you have one to make yourself happy. IMHO.

 

...and with this, I think a4a has demonstrated precisely why she is highly qualified to give advice on this issue.

[che_jesse]

Che Jesse, could you give me some examples of these times when women older than you are bitchy acting toward you?

 

 

 

Certainly. I got the brunt of it when I was 22-23 and pregnant with my first. I was a full time college student at the time and my husband was just starting his first entry level Electrical Engineering job. Because it was such a transitional time in our lives we were around a whole lot of different people from very different group.

 

 

At first it was this specific set of women, they were all women that my best friend at the time would date, he was 30 and divorced and was eagerly looking for wife #2. He dated a LOT, my husband and I had a key to his house and we were there just about always. It was almost over night but as soon any of those women found out I was pregnant the attitude would switch, it would go from "yay lets be friends because your the best friend of the guy I'm trying to get with" to "we shouldn't hang out anymore <evil stare> followed by something like "I'm really happy I had those 5 abortions, I hate kids."

 

 

OK, I thought to myself, maybe Andy just picks weird jerks to go out with. Whatever.

 

 

Then when I started to show it started with older women it really should not have happened with, I can think of 5 different TA's in my classes that were like that. Graduate students, female, super nice before and bitches when they saw I was pregnant. There are dozens of examples incidents but one specific one is:

 

 

TA gave these lame journal things we had to do every day and bring back the next day, the class was required for all engineering majors and it was a communication class. Its pretty low on everyones priority list and she knows that, the journals are just opinion essays about various ethical questions and all of our responses had to be about a page long. All semester long she would just give me an A on all of them and I don't even know if she bothered to read them. As soon as she found out I was pregnant I stated getting back papers with C's and D's on them and notes like "You are obviously distracted" or "You are not making this a priority". It was obvious bullshilt. This one I took to the actual professor that ran the class, he fired the TA. He was a grandfather of 15 and sent me some of the nicest baby gifts I got.

 

 

(Reading the TA thing it looks long so I wont talk about any more of them, but there were 4 more, I can tell you about them later if you are still interested)

 

 

Peoples general attitude just changed, now younger women did it as well, along with younger men, but not older men (this was my original point). and certainly not everyone, but the demographics that had a problem with kids certainly made themselves known.

 

 

There were dozens of older women that felt the need to give me lectures about how I need to first have a carrier. They seemed to plug up their ears when I would explain to them that the choice to start our family then had nothing to do with not having a carrier, My husband was staring his, I'm a full time student and only have to be gone from the baby I was breastfeeding for two days out of the week. My research was done from home (I had a wonderful professor I worked under at the time) and we lived in a city with both of our families and both sets of grandparents and all of his siblings that were breaking down my door to babysit.

 

 

Each and every one of the older women that were lecturing me that heard this got literally angry at me for wanting to have family members babysit those two days out of the week. According to them I HAD to put my child in day care with strangers that don't care about her because anything else was me "pushing off the responsibility of someone else". This made no sense to me at all, I would much rather have my children with people that love them then random daycare teachers. But people that felt the need to make this point were VERY rude about their opinions, mind you that none of them had kids. There were at least 20 such conversations that took place during my pregnancy and SO many more then that after our daughter was born.

 

 

People also started working in random rude statements about:

* How happy they are to have had abortions

* How they never want to have a "parasite" feed off of them

* How they don't know what they would do if they had a retarded baby and had to "end it" (people say this with a certain tone)

* How its wrong in their opinions to bring children into a world where they are certain to be raped

 

 

The list just goes on and on. I'll stop writing because this is getting to long, but if you want more let me know.

 

 

Of course if you dont do any of these things to pregnant women then you are obviously not one of the rude bitches I'm talking about so stop takeing offence people.