Tangerina Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 More men would take equal parenting time if society did not treat fathers as nothing more than sperm donors and walking wallets. If it were up to feminists all fathers would donate the sperm, send the check and have no relationship with their children. Woggle, I read your first sentence and I was thinking "Right on!" It really bothers me how somehow women are expected to always be mothers first but if men decide to put fatherhood first they suffer for it. Shouldn't children grow up with a father in their life? But then you just go off the tracks claiming that feminists want men to sire children, send a check and then get out of the picture? That is a really messed up generalization. I'm pretty sure that this disturbing trend of forcing women into motherhood roles and men into sperm bank/breadwinner roles is a result of hundreds of years of patriarchal society where all of a man's worth was placed on his job. This just simply isn't relevant anymore, yeah families need money but men are more than just money earning machines, kids need fathers as much as they need mothers. Likewise, all women aren't just housekeepers and wet nurses, the old system sucks for everyone and I really don't think 'feminists' came up with it.
cutegirl Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 About women taking more time off for hormonal problems or child rearing might be true for some but not for me. When I worked an actual 9-5 around 5-6 years ago I went through an entire year without ONE day off due to sickness or any personal problems except my allotted paid holidays. I never even used my paid sick days because I never got sick. These days I don't work 9-5 because I have my own business and make myself rich instead of making someone else rich... As for child rearing, I don't like kids at all and I'm not really maternal...
cutegirl Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 what it basically comes down to is that women get paid less cause they are willing to accept a lower salary. many women figure their man will pay most of the bills and she only has to make enough to pay for shoes and chocolate....oh yea and manicures. My bf lives with me rent free right now and I even help pay some of his bills etc My bf does do things for me a lot too though, which I appreciate. For example he takes my car to the carwash since I'm too lazy to do it, takes the trash out, sometimes runs errands for me... So we both do things to help each other out...
cutegirl Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 Just look at any feminist board. I don't think that many women post on those. I never been to one. I think lots of men like to post on escort/prostitute message boards though. I'll bet more men visit escort boards than women do feminist boards...
Citizen Erased Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 More men would take equal parenting time if society did not treat fathers as nothing more than sperm donors and walking wallets. If it were up to feminists all fathers would donate the sperm, send the check and have no relationship with their children. Well then if we are generalizing, if all men would think before they stick their c@ck in the nearest thing with a uterus then they wouldn't be stuck being a walking wallet. Work both ways Woggle. And no, if it were up to trailer trash scum sucking hoes that would be the way of things, no intelligent modern woman actually thinks that way, despite what you make up in your mind.
Topper Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 There are absurdities on both sides here. The OP has made a really bad argument for his point of view. Others here have made a better argument against him then I ever could. If you are doing the same job and doing it well then yes no matter who you are you should get the same pay. As far as the glass ceiling goes, there is an interesting dilemma that takes place amoung professionals and executives. One is that yes woman do take more time off to raise a family. There fore her male counter parts get an advantage. He is on the job more and in salaried positions us sally puts in more hours. It is also true that more woman opt out of the work force then men. I forget what law school did the survey but the numbers were very clear that Woman lawyers were more likely not practising Law 10 year after graduation then Men who graduated in the same year. Businesses might be reluctant to put a lot of time and energy into grooming a woman for a exsecutive position only to have her leave to be a wife and Mother. If a man choose to be a stay at home Father. He would also suffer in his career. Even in this day and age most woman want the man to earn more then she does. A woman is not looked down upon if she opts out of the work force to be a stay at home mother and wife. Yet if a man made that choice he is thought of as some sort of lazy bum living off his wife.
Teddy and Jane Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 There are absurdities on both sides here. The OP has made a really bad argument for his point of view. Others here have made a better argument against him then I ever could. If you are doing the same job and doing it well then yes no matter who you are you should get the same pay. As far as the glass ceiling goes, there is an interesting dilemma that takes place amoung professionals and executives. One is that yes woman do take more time off to raise a family. There fore her male counter parts get an advantage. He is on the job more and in salaried positions us sally puts in more hours. It is also true that more woman opt out of the work force then men. I forget what law school did the survey but the numbers were very clear that Woman lawyers were more likely not practising Law 10 year after graduation then Men who graduated in the same year. Businesses might be reluctant to put a lot of time and energy into grooming a woman for a exsecutive position only to have her leave to be a wife and Mother. If a man choose to be a stay at home Father. He would also suffer in his career. Even in this day and age most woman want the man to earn more then she does. A woman is not looked down upon if she opts out of the work force to be a stay at home mother and wife. Yet if a man made that choice he is thought of as some sort of lazy bum living off his wife. That's the thing, today women ARE often looked upon by society in a negative light if they choose to be a stay at home wife/mom.
alphamale Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 My bf lives with me rent free right now and I even help pay some of his bills etc My bf does do things for me a lot too though, which I appreciate. For example he takes my car to the carwash since I'm too lazy to do it, takes the trash out, sometimes runs errands for me... So we both do things to help each other out... so basically he's like your house-boy or maybe "kept man" is a better term....personally I wouldn't be CAUGHT DEAD in his position.
Teddy and Jane Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 so basically he's like your house-boy or maybe "kept man" is a better term....personally I wouldn't be CAUGHT DEAD in his position. I have to agree with you there. He should be ashamed of himself.
cutegirl Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 I have to agree with you there. He should be ashamed of himself. If men can take care of women then why can't women take care of men? It should be 50/50, there shouldn't be any double standards. I'm an independent woman, I don't NEED a man taking care of me and I also don't MIND taking care of a guy. I wouldn't WANT a man to take care of me. I am not a weak helpless woman who needs a man to take care of her. I am just as competent as any man. I think I'm actually more competent than most men, not just men but just people in general.
Woggle Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 I would never let myself be taken care of by a woman but since men support women all the time I see nothing wrong with a woman supporting a man..
Author Answer Posted May 14, 2007 Author Posted May 14, 2007 Part I means that I'm just getting warmed up. I will let all the females and the guys who are "politically correct" say whatever they have to say. I will PROMISE that everyone will see just how much feminism is so much like dictatorship world. The party makes the directives and the people have no choice but to bow, fearing they will get put to death. It shouldn't have to be this way. By the end of this series, you will see just how much sense I make. I'm just getting warmed up. Part II will be posted in a little bit.
Teddy and Jane Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 I would never let myself be taken care of by a woman but since men support women all the time I see nothing wrong with a woman supporting a man.. Eh, that's not really true considering that in most households these days, both spouses work...then the woman comes home and is expected to take care of the kids on top of that while the guy sits on his butt with a beer in front of the tube, demanding his dinner.
cutegirl Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 Eh, that's not really true considering that in most households these days, both spouses work...then the woman comes home and is expected to take care of the kids on top of that while the guy sits on his butt with a beer in front of the tube, demanding his dinner. Not me, I don't cook all of the time. I demand it to be 50/50, or get food to go. Trust me. I am not the type to clean and cook and serve anyone. I don't take orders from anyone. I am not subservient to any man. If the woman actually cooks just because it's expected of her because she's a female then that's her problem. If she actually listens to him then that's her problem... lol People have the option to say yes or no. As for me, I don't take orders. I could care less if a man "expects" a woman to cook. No one can expect me to do certain things just because I am female. I do as I please. If the guy doesn't like it 50/50 he is free to leave. Good luck finding someone better
cutegirl Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 Eh, that's not really true considering that in most households these days, both spouses work...then the woman comes home and is expected to take care of the kids on top of that while the guy sits on his butt with a beer in front of the tube, demanding his dinner. Also, if the woman in question doesn't want to do all the cooking and looking after the kids but if she does it anyway just because she thinks it's expected of her, then that's her fault for being an idiot and not being assertive. If you aren't unhappy with a situation you should speak up about it and discuss it, perhaps she should tell her guy how she wants to split up the responsibilities etc I have no sympathy for people who are passive aggressive and do things that they don't really want to do because they are too weak to stand up for themselves and then have resentment later on.
Aussie65 Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 I work in the health industry and get paid 1/4 of my partners wage who is a machinery operator.We both have our own bank accounts and because I am such a proud person I do find it tough some weeks and no I cannot afford the manicures/facials etc
lindya Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 Part I means that I'm just getting warmed up. I will let all the females and the guys who are "politically correct" say whatever they have to say. I will PROMISE that everyone will see just how much feminism is so much like dictatorship world. The party makes the directives and the people have no choice but to bow, fearing they will get put to death. It shouldn't have to be this way. By the end of this series, you will see just how much sense I make. I'm just getting warmed up. Part II will be posted in a little bit. Whatever, Ignatius Reilly. Or, should I say, Ignatius Reilly's dim-witted cousin.
longlegzs80 Posted May 16, 2007 Posted May 16, 2007 It should be based on what you can do for the company, experience you have, etc. Just because your a man should mean nothing. Base it off of what you can bring to the table and how you have showed the company your WORTH the cost.
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