forgiveable or not?

[kittensmittens]

Ok, so i'm seriously struggling with some trust issues....but I'm not sure if they're actually a big deal or not, so I thougth I'd ask first rather than risk making a big deal out of something that's not. I personally think that some little white lies are ok, as long as they're along the lines of "no, I think your haircut looks wonderful". I think most of us would be pretty unhappy if we heard the absolute brutal truth 100% of the time, especially from the ones we love. But where do you draw the line between little white lies and an inability to trust someone?

 

Here's why I ask (sorry in advance if this is dumb!). My bf told me all about his past before we ever started dating. He offered up all the info about his sexual history, past gf's etc. and I never asked for it. I wasn't offended, I just listened, took it all in for what it was, and that was that. Well, I came to find out almost 2 years into our relationship that there was one small detail he lied about. When he was young, he was in love w/ this girl who he wanted to lose his virginity to, but she was more interested in sleeping w/ lots of other guys. So out of spite and hurt he *in his versioin* gave his virginity away to some random girl in one of his high school classes that he talked to occasionally, when he went over to her house one day for a project.....or something like that. He said he didn't care about her at all, she was really quiet, he didn't even talk to her much, etc. etc. Soooo....I didn't even care, that's way in the past, whatever. But then I come to find out later...from another source...that he DID lose his virginity out of spite to someone else, but it was a random girl at a party that he knew from work who was a few years older than him (like early 20's or something). When I confronted him about it, he said he just didn't want me to think he was gross. In my opinion, the worst part of the story would be the part about losing your virginity out of spite, but even then I just figured "whatever, he was young, that's the past". Well, anyway, I let that one slide completely. He was over the moon for me at the time he told me the first (and false) version of the story, so I figured maybe he truly was afraid of being "too honest". Even though for the life of me I can't figure out what would be more gross about losing your virginity to a girl at a party than to a girl in your hs. But that's just me, I guess...

 

So then....a few years later we were going through some bad times. I've already posted this one elsewhere, but I'll go through it again. We were fighting a lot, I was working a lot, he wasn't, and so he spent his time at home looking at porn. Only I didn't know that. I didn't know because--also before we started dating--he told me that he deleted all of the porn off of his computer because I was "all he needed". I never asked him to do that, I never asked if he HAD....he offered that up all on his own. Two days before I found all of that on the computer, I asked him teasingly if he ever looked at that stuff. He told me no, and when I challenged him to look me in the eyes and tell me that he said "no. really." I just assumed he didn't before I asked the question and I was completely reassured that he didn't when he answered the question. Well he had been looking at it for the past two weeks so at the time he told me that, he looked me in the eyes and lied. And I completley believed him, totally 100%.....and that's the part that bothers me and, frankly, scares me.

 

This is someone I totally trusted. There are other small little things. For instance, he would always make a big deal about how Paris Hilton is gross and whatever, (which I also took for granted and believed) and he has such picky taste in women, etc. (and I knew of the women that he was "less than" grossed out by) but after another very recent bad time, when the porn came back around (which he claims he only looks at during the bad times), I saw he had saved the infamous Paris Hilton sex video on his computer. I know it's easy to say "Paris Hilton is hot....DUH" but I thought I knew him. I thought I knew his taste. It's just little things like that. I feel like I can't believe any of the small little things he tells me now. What is safe to feel reassured by, what's just a little white lie, and what's a bigger lie? I feel like I just don't even know anymore. What else could he be capable of lying about if I let myself be capable of believing him? That question makes me very sad.

 

I know that he loves me. I feel that he may possibly just be trying to give me what I want, what he thinks I deserve, and at the time he told me those things he was completley head over heels crazy about me....so maybe he really just didn't want me to think of him as a bad person. But he told me about other unflattering bits of his past....so that's why I don't get the lies about his virginity. And when I asked him about that he just said "I dunno, I can't explain it". So is this dumb?? Should I just shrug these all off as stupid white lies and forgive and forget? Or should I be questioning his character? It makes me sad to even feel the need to ask this because he is, otherwise, an incredibly good person and when I first started dating him I never trusted anyone more in my life. Ugh! Am I making too much of this?

[reb]

Those are little lies that I would just forget about, let it be what it is, guys look at porn, really not a big deal unless it starts to affect your private times together.

As far as he past, you may not like it, but it is and was the past, and we all have one and we all have done things we wish we had not done.

 

If you guys get along good in all other areas of the relationship, I say just let it go, if you cant let it go then I would say move on, but really I don't think talking to him about this will do any good.

[nicki]

The losing his virginity thing/lie is a small thing. He probably didn't want you to think that he randomly hooked up with girls from parties. He might have made up the girl at school/project lie to appear less sleazy.

 

I don't even know those kinds of details about my ex boyfriends....and I don't want to. I think some things are better left unsaid. Not EVERYTHING needs to be shared.

 

I think like you do. Little white lies about someone's haircut or someone's dinner that they made you, or even about ugly babies, are okay.

 

Lies about porn? Hmm, that can be a gray area. No guy wants to say "Yeah, I look at porn all the time." How often is he looking? Do you think it's too much?

 

No guy wants to tell his girlfriend either that he thinks Paris Hilton is hot, yet skanky, too.

 

He wants you to think better of him. But he doesn't need to lie about stuff. Let him know that you want the truth, and that you can handle it. Tell him that the lies bother you.

 

Are you worried that he has a sexual side to his personality that you don't like? Like maybe that he is into trampy women and has a problem with porn? By him lying, you can come to think that he is covering up things you should know.

 

I wouldn't worry too much, but I'd watch him and his behavior and see if it gets out of balance.

 

Good luck!

[Sheba]

He wants you to think better of him.

 

I think this is a vary insightful and important comment. It is worth remembering and I will remember it and hope kittens does too.

 

Thanks for that, nicki.

[kittensmittens]

He wants you to think better of him.

 

I think this is a vary insightful and important comment. It is worth remembering and I will remember it and hope kittens does too.

 

Well, that's certainly what I would like to think in this situation. And that's what I'm leaning towards. However, I would prefer to think better of him because I can trust him....not at the expense of trust.

 

Lies about porn? Hmm, that can be a gray area. No guy wants to say "Yeah, I look at porn all the time." How often is he looking? Do you think it's too much?

 

That's the problem....I don't even know. I know of 3 times that he has....the first time I caught him, one time when we broke up, and then very recently when we were going through some sh*t. All of those times were bad times for us and we weren't as close. That I can undestand, even though I still don't like it. But we've been through more than 3 bad times, so I suspect he's been looking at it more than that. And now I'm suspicious that he's been looking at it during more than just the bad times. But I don't know. There was a TON of it on his computer recently, and then I found a dvd of it (which also seemed a little weird, because I found it after he agreed to get rid of the porn....) so I've gone from totally taking for granted that he did'nt do that....to wondering if maybe he isn't a porn addict. He always claimed he wasn't looking at that stuff and was very adament about it. He would get irritated in the past when I would push the issue and question him and then I would end up feeling bad and guilty. That's the part that really gets to me. If he is lying about things (even about little things), I'm the one who ends up feeling bad for second guessing him, and it would seem that he's totally ok with that. Then I start questioning whether he even has conscience or not.

 

But maybe I'm just getting carried away. I want to be able to trust him again. I've already told him that I do. He told me recently he will delete/not look at porn in order to respect my feelings. For a long time I went overboard and questioned everything he said, after he had lied. But now I realize (and feel) that either you trust someone, or you just can't be with them. But you can't go on and on doubting and questioning everything they say. I love him, so I had to decide if I can start over and just give the trust back freely to him (until he blows it again). That's what I did and that's why I can't talk to HIM about this now. Now, I'm feeling scared and afraid of being made a fool again, and being hurt and let down again. I'm scared that maybe I really don't know this person. I guess I just feel a little disillusioned, but maybe I shouldn't....he is human afterall.

 

There are other little things....like the dvd I mentioned. I came across it the day after he told me he wouldn't look at that stuff anymore. When I asked him later that day if there was anymore, anywhere else (off of the computer) he said "no...." like he was sort of confused. So then I told him I came across it and then he claimed he had just forgotten about it. At first he said he made it "a long time ago" and then said "well, not a loooong time ago"...since we both know he only aqcuired a dvd burner in the last 2 or 3 weeks (this dvd was burned...by him). He said he made it when things were bad and he had just gotten his computer and was still getting it all put together, so he burned that as back up in case we ended up breaking up again. I'm trying sooooo hard to give him the benefit of the doubt here, but this one really bugs me! He even seemed like he was maybe kinda jittery when he was telling me this, but that could just be me looking for things. Does this seem believable to anyone else....or just weird?

 

As for lies about Paris Hilton and things of that nature.....I can at least understand it even if I don't like it at all. But it still leaves me feeling like he is not honest with me about who he is....preferences and things like that that I just take for granted as being a part of who he is. They're little things, but they make me realize how capable he may be of getting away with any lie and it makes it that much harder to give him the benefit of the doubt in shadier situations (like w/ the dvd). Am I'm taking this way too seriously? Seriously, am I??

[megnog]

hey i didn't have time to read everyones post so i'm sorry if i am repeating stuff.... but about the losing his virginity thing - i can kind of see how losing your virginity to some girl at school versus some girl at a party is better. he probably said she was quiet and he didn't even talk to her because maybe thats how he felt about this girl at the party, like he didn't know her. and that can disgust some people - to sleep with random people that you never knew before this one night. and its sad to lose your virginity this way but, even though pretty stupid, i can kind of understand why he would lie. it definately seems like he wants you to see him in this bright light , he doesn't want you to think bad about him.

 

and you shouldn't because its in the past! but he needs to watch his little lies because they can add up.

 

about the paris hilton thing though, my boyfriend did the EXACT same thing!! and it kind of makes me laugh because its like whaaaat? why did you say she was ugly and gross and then you download her naked?!?!?! whats going on?? haha, but really... its just a sex scandal. its a tape that got out of someone famous doing dirty stuff, and guys are all into that. so regardless of how gross some girl is, they like to know what they are hearing about around them and they like naked females.

 

so that "lie" was probably more of a truth, hes just a normal guy who likes to look at porn.

 

honestly, i don't find these things to be that bad, and i know you don't either. i'd question why he lied, as in saying "you don't have to lie to me", and then let it go. life is too short to be worrying about lies that don't really affect you.

 

one more thing, he could be a compulsive liar... not in a bad way, if that makes any sense. i do that sometimes, i used to do it a LOT. i'd just make up stuff that really had no reason for the lie. i don't know why i did it , maybe it was to make myself seem like a better person, ya know?

 

well good luck

[kittensmittens]

and you shouldn't because its in the past! but he needs to watch his little lies because they can add up.

 

Well, the stupid virginity lie actually never bothered me at all (except for the initial confusion) UNTIL...I found out he lied again. That's when I started getting concerned. I feel like all the little things that don't add up ARE adding up....you know? But maybe I really am (I hope!) freaking out about it too much. The worst was the lie about the porn. That one DID stick w/ me and that one is affecting me right now because I want to believe him sooo badly.....but he lied about that very thing before. Would you (or anyone else) believe him now after that? Should I go ahead and give my trust back to him?

 

And what about the dvd? Does anyone have an opinion on that one? It's taking all my might right now to give him the benefit of the doubt and not go nuts on him questioning it....

[kittensmittens]

I don't mean to get demanding....but HELP!! I'm going to see my bf tomorrow (we live together, but I'm in another town right now) and I just don't know what to do. I don't know if I should confront him...yet again....or if I should just let it all go, start over despite all of these little things and give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Another lie I didn't mention was that right after he told me the other day that he wouldn't look at porn anymore--out of respect and understanding for my feelings--he said "I only did that when things were going bad, anyway". But earlier that day, when I saw it on his computer, it said in the browser history that he had viewed it the day before--a day when we were on good terms again. This one stood out immediately, but I didn't confront him or question him about it until later. When I did, he said "I don't know, I didn't look at it that day, the settings must be off, you know that computer does quarky stuff.." etc. But the websites that I had gone to earlier in the day were right there under "today" in the history. So I asked him "wouldn't everything be off, if the settings are off? Not just some things...?" And he just said "I don't know, I don't know, I can't explain it" and then started making ME feel guilty by saying "it's so frustrating to not understand something and not be able to explain it..." and started getting upset with ME for "already questioning him" after I said I wouldn't do that anymore. So then I felt bad even though it's pretty damn obvious he lied. AND I asked a friend of mine who is extremely knowledgable in computers if what my bf was telling was possible and he said no it isn't......same thing I said--that everything would be off if the settings are off.

 

Again, I can understand WHY he would lie. Then he was caught in it and probably felt stupid and scared so he came up with more BS. If this was an isolated little white lie....then, as dumb as it is, ok. Fine. I would let it go. But a long time ago he came up with another suspicious story involving the cookies on the computer (I was significantly more investigative back then...) and that one just didn't mesh well with common sense either. And there are others like that. And I'm tired of it.

 

I feel like he must think I'm stupid. I don't like that he twists things around to make me feel guilty for questioning something that's questionable. And the worst part is he's not respecting my feelings. I know not everyone agrees on the issue of porn, but there are other men out there who are completley capable of respecting my feelings on the matter and I deserve to be w/ someone who is honest. Not someone who is pretending to be something he is not. If he's still lying, that is.

 

I don't know if I should explain all of this to him???? And explain to him that things are not the same anymore, that he CAN openly communicate with me now, so there's no need to lie..??? Or if I should give him the benefit of the doubt--all over again, like I said I would--and show him nothing but trust. Hold up to my end of the agreement, not turn this into a huge ordeal, continue making the changes I need to make in myself and then if he IS still lying and has any conscience at all, he'll realize HE has someone who respects HIM and he is not returning that. And in continuing to make my changes and not drag this subject out w/ him (as I've done in the past), he'll naturally want to be around me more, our R will be happier, and there will be more at stake for him to lose if he is lying.

 

In the meantime though....I'm holding these feelings inside that are making it difficult for me to feel genuinely close to him at time when I'm giving more of myself than I ever have. I also feel unsure of his intergrity, but I could be overreacting. I don't know which approach is healthiest....do I talk to him and risk making a bigger deal out of this than need be? Or do I do what I've already told him I would do and just trust him from this point forward (while using a bit of psychology on him too)???

 

OR...should I just firmly but briefly remind him that lies will NOT be tolerated and leave it at that without dragging all this other sh*t up?? I don't know...is that enough? Are too many things left unsaid that way? Or is it still too much when I told him I'd trust him?? I don't know!

 

Am I still just making too much out of this??? Or are all these little things indicators of poor character??

 

HELP!! I'm so confused right now.....

 

(sorry this is so long!)

[Trialbyfire]

What part bothers you the most? The porn or the lying?

[kittensmittens]

The lying. Because it affects my ability to trust him in regards to something that affeccts me as deeply as his porn use does, as well as anything else, potentially.

 

But he knows how I feel about the porn and why I feel the way I do....so if he is lying then those are two ways in which he is showing disregard. So they sort of go hand in hand.

[Trialbyfire]

If it were me, I would address the lying and let him know that you are starting to have serious trust issues over it. The lies are really hurting his credibility. Very much a "cry wolf" situation.

 

I won't say anything about the porn issue because I don't believe a small amount is a problem, as long as it's not an addiction.

[kittensmittens]

Well, I have already made it clear to him how I, personally, feel about my SO using porn and asked him to please respect my feelings. And he made it clear that he would.

 

HOWEVER, with all of these little lies in the past it is very hard for me to have faith in him that he will genuinely maintain respect for my feelings. He knows exactly what he is betraying if he does look at that stuff again (even "a little bit"), and that's very serious to me.

 

I really want to believe him. I want to believe him because I know for a fact that there are men out there who can give me what I want and deserve. But I don't want them--I love my bf. But I can't be with someone who will compromise in the area of respect, no matter how much I love them.

 

But maybe I'm taking all these little lies too far....maybe he really is capable of respecting my feelings as he has said he would. Or maybe I'm just being dumb.

 

I just don't know if I should talk to him about it and risk setting us back with the same old sh*t that's gnawing at me, or let all of the past go and take a risk in trusting him again (since I already said I would....).

[kittensmittens]

Agh, I'm gonna see him later today....what do I do?? Talk about it? Let it go?

 

Am I making too much of these lies?? Is it possible that he's still a trustworthy guy??

 

Seriously...help!!!

[Guest]

I don't know if you talked to him or not yesterday, but if not I think you should talk to him - the trust issue is a biggie, and can be a long term problem that never goes away. My husband was/is? a 'white lier' and I never got over it, and still can't trust him. He did the same thing, look me right in the eye and lie about many things. Now I'm stuck with a man I can't trust and am very unhappy. Don't make the same mistake I did, bring it up and clear it up early, because once things progress the lying gets worse and worse.