Chapter2 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 I've never responded to you before Woggle for fear of flaming but here goes... You use a LOT of definitives when it comes to women in a LOT of your posts...."majority of women", "almost all women", "every woman", "most women"... I fully believe male spouses and partners are every bit as abused emotionally if not physically as women are. I believe it is not as openly discussed in our society because of the stigma of looking or feeling like that makes you less of a man. I wouldn't even associate with a woman that says "men deserved to be abused"...who even says that crap? I've known men who stand still as a stone while their wives or girlfriends literally beat them with their fists and those women think its just fine. It's called battering whether you are male or female. I'm sorry you have the view of "almost all women" that you have but you'll be relieved to know that not all women in the world are the same NOR are all the men in the world. You sound like you pretty much hate women. The majority of women think there is nothing wrong with treating men like this also. When I hear women saying that men deserve to be abused my blood just boils. I grew up being abused by a woman and I got myself into a marriage with a clone of my mother. I will never let another woman do that to me no men should ever tolerate it.
Chapter2 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Well, you said it best... I wonder why any man would feel like a wimp if he admitted he was being abused. Go figure. If these men had any balls...
IfWishesWereHorses Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 So why not explain to your wife that you cannot hear her when she talks to you in anger. Why not set up a couple of times a week that she is allowed to bring her concerns to the table. Let her write them down and possibly since the anger will have faded she can talk about her issues cooly and possibly you can hear her. Nothing makes me more "angry" than to be ignored or to have my feelings discounted but when we come to someone (men especially) with so much emotion we are tuned out. Your wife also needs an outlet for her anger. Women especially do not deal with anger well. Men seem to find physical outlets for it and get over it so much easier. Seems to me that it would be easier to reteach her how to handle anger than to throw away the marriage. Create a boundry with her and lovingly enforce it. The idea is to make it better right?
Trialbyfire Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 There are a number of reasons why your wife might be constantly angry: - a passive aggressive husband who is asked time and time again to take care of certain things and doesn't, which is technically abusive neglect; - someone who has a dysfunction requiring professional therapy or medication; - someone who is so unhappy with her life and/or marriage that she's taking it out on her spouse. You may want to consider all those factors and see which one applies in your situation. It could also be a combination of all three.
katiebour Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 My b/f and I have been together for almost 2 years- not a spouse (yet) but close enough We get ticked off at each other maybe once a month. There are always the little things (We forgot something or said something unintentionally rude, etc) but we both try to take these with a sense of humor. In the end, people are people and we all make mistakes. I do have a problem with my temper- I sometimes get really irritated when he keeps doing something that he thinks is funny, but which actually irritates me. I just take a deep breath, and yes, actually do the counting to ten thing, or try to make a joke out of while still (jokingly) making it clear that the behavior in question is no longer amusing. I do or say things from time to time which are rude, or impatient. I always end up apologizing and I feel really awful when I make him sad. Thus I try to minimize the appearance of my temper and to be understanding and patient. I get yelled at a lot at work for little teeny things, and I am SO much happier on days when I work at my other job. I imagine it feels the same with a relationship. Just dreading the daily conflict that you know is coming, cringing every time they make a mountain of a molehill- it's enough to make you want to quit.
Author GreatWall Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 - a passive aggressive husband who is asked time and time again to take care of certain things and doesn't, which is technically abusive neglect; So you're saying what? That there are conditions in which her behavior might be justified? Would you feel the same way about a guy who beats his spouse?
Trialbyfire Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 So you're saying what? That there are conditions in which her behavior might be justified? Would you feel the same way about a guy who beats his spouse? Each person is responsible for their own behaviour. If one person isn't meeting their needs, it's up to them to express their needs and back it up with strong boundaries. Let's pretend that you are passive-aggressive and I were in her shoes. I would sit you down and discuss the issues, expecting to see some improvement soon. If there's no improvement or grudging improvement, we would have another chat, with the understanding that the next time would be the last time because I didn't see any concerted effort on your part to improve things. The next time you did it, I would pull the trigger and walk away. You simply cannot force someone to change without their wholehearted agreement that there are behavioural pattern issues that need to be addressed. The same holds true in reverse of this issue. If she is consistently angry, you have to sit her down and have the same kind of discussion. If either spouse is physically abusive, run don't walk away. Life's too short to put up with someone who has issues of this nature.
Woggle Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 So you're saying what? That there are conditions in which her behavior might be justified? Would you feel the same way about a guy who beats his spouse? It didn't take long for some women to justify this. If you don't follow her chores like you are a child it is okay to emotionally abuse you in their eyes. I would ask myself if being in this marriage is bringing you more happiness than being single would and if the answer is no it is time to walk.
bab Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Thanks Woggle, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to realize you were generalizing unnecessarily. Really, I think that's great. GW-- It's not fair what your wife is doing to you. Of course it is hard to tell how severe it is sitting here in front of the screen, but if you honestly believe that it is emotional abuse, then you need to get help. Emotional abuse is just as devestaing to ones self-esteem as physical abuse. I was once in an emotionally abusive relationship until a dear friend of mine pointed out the obvious. She asked me, "You know, children model their relationships after their parents relationships. Do you really want your children to have this type of relationship when they are older? Do you really want him to be the father of your children?" Of course you already have kids, so the second statement doesn't apply, but the first still does. Your kids are learning that this is the way that a normal relationship works. But they are learning the wrong thing. This is NOT how a normal relationship works. What if this was your son and his wife instead of you? Would you think he was a wimp for being hurt? Would you want him to get out? Why should it be any different for you? Not to mention the fact that you are creating a situtation in which he will be ripe to enter into such a relationship. Take our dear friend Woggle for example. His mother was this way with his father, and with him. He entered into a marriage with a woman who did the same things. Luckily he got out of that situation and is now in a marriage with a wonderful woman, but as you see he still struggles with the reprecussions of his upbringing. If you can't get out for yourself, get out for your son. (I'm sorry to focus only on the effects on your kids, but that was what switched the light bulb on for me, and they were just my theoretical kids.)
Chapter2 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 I guess "some" is better than "most' or "all"... Your mom really did a number on you Woggle...mine did too but I still believe there are good mom's, wives, sisters and girlfriends out there. You might be filtering every opinion you have through what your mom and wife did to you. Not that TBF needs anyone to defend her in any way, but...I don't think she is trying to justify anything. She was very clear about getting out of the relationship under certain conditions and all she stated in the previous post was why this poster's wife "might" be angry all the time. I guess I missed where she even insinuated that "its okay to emotionally abuse". It didn't take long for some women to justify this. If you don't follow her chores like you are a child it is okay to emotionally abuse you in their eyes. I would ask myself if being in this marriage is bringing you more happiness than being single would and if the answer is no it is time to walk.
Trialbyfire Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Not that TBF needs anyone to defend her in any way, but...I don't think she is trying to justify anything. She was very clear about getting out of the relationship under certain conditions and all she stated in the previous post was why this poster's wife "might" be angry all the time. I guess I missed where she even insinuated that "its okay to emotionally abuse". Thanks. Glad to see someone understanding where I was coming from instead of immediately jumping to the gender assumptions.
SydneyHeart Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 My husband is mad at me every single day for something - although he often doesn't tell me he is - he saves it all up until I have a complaint against him, then he pelts me with his, one after the other, ignoring my complaint entirely. Mostly he gets mad when I am doing stuff on the computer because he knows it makes me happy. I am beginning to realise this is not really the norm...
whichwayisup Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 Seems like my wife is mad at me every day about one thing or another. She was gone two days with my son while I stayed home with my daughter. And wouldn't you know it .. she's mad at me again. It only took about 45 minutes after getting her at the airport. She's promised a few times to stop with that. The last time was literally last Sunday. But today, I had to listen to her lecturing me and being angry again. It always about something stupid. It's not like I gambled and drank and totalled the car in a ditch or anything like that. It's almost always over something so minor I can hardly believe she gets all bent out of shape over it. Anyway .. back to the question. How often? I need to gain a sense of perspective. TIA! I think I get more annoyed with my H than him with me. I've just learned to keep that stuff to myself as the things he does ISN'T about me. He is just being himself and he gets on my nerves at times... I rarely get mad at him, but if I do, there's a good reason for it and then we talk about it. What's funny though is, he is the nagger and more of the nitpicker than I am. I'm much more laid back, and silly at times, which I know annoys HIM. Sometimes I can't help myself, and I purposely get him going just to see him react. (Not in a mean or malcious way, more of a fun and loving way as he can be quite serious at times, so I DO stupid funny things to lighten up the moment.) He usually ends up laughing by the time I've made my point. Most stuff couples fight about really isn't worth fighting about...Life is too short to sweat over the small things.
whichwayisup Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 That is great advice. That's exactly what I've been doing lately (last 3 months or so). That hasn't stopped the bitching, but it does help me a little. I will start keeping the log. I don't know why the hell I didn't even think of that. Not that it makes a difference in my state since this is a no-fault divorce state. But it may help later if the issues does come up for discussion. Step it up a notch and make sure SHE knows WHY you are ignoring her. Infact, dont' do the ignore thing - Do the "I am not going to even bother talking to you until you show me some respect and stop acting like a child." Then, get up and walk out of the room calmly. Don't get mad, don't show ANY emotion. That will make her stop and think.......
whichwayisup Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 My husband is mad at me every single day for something - although he often doesn't tell me he is - he saves it all up until I have a complaint against him, then he pelts me with his, one after the other, ignoring my complaint entirely. Mostly he gets mad when I am doing stuff on the computer because he knows it makes me happy. I am beginning to realise this is not really the norm... No, it isn't the norm. Chances are HE is the one who is miserable and mad at himself, and he's just taking it out on you. I can compare your situation to what my relationship with my mom used to be (and still sometimes is at times now), she would bring me up, compliment me, be nice to me, then BOOM, do a 180. Put me down, say awful things and try to make ME feel bad. Took a while, but now I know it's not about me, it's about her and how unhappy SHE is. Don't let your husband get away with that stuff. Next time he gets pissed off at you, CALL him on it. Find out wtf is going on inside him.
luvstarved Posted May 6, 2007 Posted May 6, 2007 My H has gotten mad about something or the other almost every day for as long as I can remember, though it hasn't "worked" for the last week or so. That is because I have emotionally detached from him though and his "bait" is not being taken. His pattern has been to say something mean or ridiculous in a hostile manner and if you refuse to engage with your own anger...he pushes and pushes and escalates the insults until he finally pisses you off, then tells you YOU have an anger issue. Here are the main things that make him mad: 1) when he asks for something and either doesn't get compliance or doesn't get IMMEDIATE compliance 2) when he is disagreed with 3) when he is asked to do something he does not want to do 4) when he feels he has been slighted or insulted, by failing to give him proper attention, or the response he wants to hear - insufficient praise, etc. He feels slighted/insulted a LOT 5) when someone's behavior interferes with his plans or comfort (the phone ringing after 8pm, for example) I have tried a lot of things for a long time to try to make him realize that he is the one with the issue and have failed. He went off on my daughter the other night because her bf stopped by at 10pm (gasp!) to drop off her cell phone that he'd borrowed. He didn't even come in the house or ring the bell. My daughter quietly went out to his car to meet him. BUT - the dog that my husband insisted on getting against my vehement protests saw the car and started barking like mad, thus waking him and our 8 year old up. H went into a mad tirade about what poor judgment she showed, how selfish and out of control and delinquent she (and by extension his other stepdaughter) are, said they were clueless screwballs and he was going to take them off his health insurance, etc then proceeded to tell the 8 year old (HIS biological child) that Mom was in denial about her crazy sisters and must be from another planet. The next day instead of being apologetic, he said that the fact that they slammed their bedroom doors (after he went off on them irrationally for 20 minutes) "needs to be addressed" I am on the verge of leaving him, I probably should have long ago but have been trying to get some kind of sense that change was possible. We are in counseling now and it is my last attempt. Emotionally, I am preparing for what now seems inevitable...I think it is a rare person indeed with this kind of issue who can make meaningful changes. Problem is, they just don't think they are wrong...and never will.
Guest Posted May 8, 2007 Posted May 8, 2007 No, it isn't the norm. Chances are HE is the one who is miserable and mad at himself, and he's just taking it out on you. Don't let your husband get away with that stuff. Next time he gets pissed off at you, CALL him on it. Find out wtf is going on inside him. I've already called him on that it this is what has happened... I'm glad i'm not the only one going through this. My boyfriend/SO is mad at me every day for little things and for things that bother him at work. He yells at me like I am a child. He does quirky things to me that I dislike and when I tell him to please stop I don't like that. he says I'm in a bad mood or hormonal (he says this everyday) I'm at my wits end and about ready to leave him. I have tried to get him to see that his anger is not about me but about him and how he deals with situations in life. At first he understood, I told him we needed counseling to learn how to communicate, (i could never bring up an edgy topic) and he tried to be more understanding and not quite a volatile verbally. then he would get back to his maniac madness again. I have tried so hard to just sit calmly and talk to him and if you ever have tried to talk to an angry person you know how hard it is. You have to sit there and be firm through it all and not raise your voice when he does because you are being the "good example" (and this is how you live your life until...) and tell him he has no right to raise his voice at you every time he raises his voice, he just does not have that right. you go off topic to stress this point then you go back on topic and off again when he raises his voice again... In the end the point you got across is that he does not have the right to raise his voice or become angry with you. If there is a problem simply talk about it. He wants me to agree that I am to blame or he will not agree that he has a problem. This works fine for a short while then when he starts it again he has what he thinks is ammnitition against you and in his mind it gives him the right to yell at you. It is a viscious circle. I started purposely getting mad at him when he would get mad at me to show him how it looked and felt and he said i had an anger problem. I would then go back to being calm for awhile. Now it has come to the point that I am quick to snap at him because he is constantly doing it to me and I told myself that I would never sink low enough to do that. We just had another conversation about this again and we both agreed not to get angry but to talk. so now I am at square one again with him. if you can call it that. I will not go to square two because I have been in that viscious circle before and I am not going back In the end I will leave him because all i want is peace in my life and he does not give that to me like he did when we first met. He has changed and so have I. I have firm beliefs in what i need in a man and he is not what I need to be happy. I have found only the angry can change you cannot even help them to change they have to want to. If the OP's wife refuses to see she might have even a slight problem then their will never be an end to the ugly arguing. He will end up starting a life on his own without her because it is peaceful and is that what marriage is all about really...
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