Is snooping ever justified?

[dazednconfusedagain]

Hi. I've been with a woman for almost a year now, and I've been regularly snooping in her email and banks accounts and checking her phone records for most of the relationship.

 

Our relationship got off to a bad start. She was married a year and a half ago, her husband left her after he caught her in an affair, and when I asked her why her marriage ended she lied. A lot. She told me dozens of lies over the first couple of months to hide the fact that she cheated and that she was still seeing the guy when she and I first started dating. But then she had trouble keeping track of the lies and I caught on, and slowly over the last several months the truth (or at least some of it) has come out.

 

I have a history of being lied to and cheated on, so finding out about this caused me a lot of anxiety. But I do understand why my g/f cheated (she was miserable in her marriage and her husband treated her badly), and also why she lied to me (she was ashamed of herself and thought I would think badly of her). So I've tried to forgive her.

 

 

She's been wonderful to me other than the lies in the first few months, and has promised she'll never lie to me again. And she does seem like a different person now - she has a lot more self-esteem and she says she's this is the best relationship she's ever been in. I don't think she has any reason to cheat, but I can't shake the fear and mistrust that I'm feeling.

 

So I snoop. I've found a few things that have made me suspicous, but nothing conclusive and I recognize that I'm kind of paranoid at this point. And I have this feeling like I won't be able to trust anyone in a relationship for a long time because of this. So I'm not sure I'll be any better off trying again with someone else right now.

 

If I did ever find anything damning by snooping I would break up with her, and I think that's why I snoop. We talked about her lying and I said I forgave her for it, but I just can't get past it. But I don't feel right about breaking up with her for the mistakes she made if she really has changed. So I guess I'm looking for proof that she hasn't really changed. And while I haven't found that proof yet, I can't stop looking.

 

So what should I do? Break up with her, because I can't get past what she did even if she has changed? Stop snooping, and try to fight the very strong feelings of anxiety, fear and mistrust I know I'll be feeling? Or keep snooping, at least until some time has past and I start trusting her again?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Dude I would leave, let's look at all the facts. She's a cheater. She cheated on her husband, lied to him about it. Then still messed with the OM while even hooking up with you!!! She seems like a habitual liar to me.

 

If she lied about the OM, she probably lied about her husband. Have you contacted her ex to get his side of the story?

 

Affairs are like addictions, you dont need to carry her baggage!

 

You have every reason to be suspicious. You cant trust her, trust is erned and once she reclaims your trust, then you can stop snooping.

 

But the bottom line is that even after all of this, and you find this stuff out, red flags everywhere? Why are you with this woman?

 

Think clearly.

[Lizzie60]

just leave... I doubt she'll change. If you're so unhappy, just go.

 

Only masochists snoop like you do.

 

I would snoop if I suspect something is going on...but first lie... he's out! I have no patience anymore, life is too short!

[Ladyjane14]

"Checking" is a difficult habit to overcome. It can become compulsive after a while. A little snooping when you feel like something is truly amiss is one thing, but if you don't have BIG RED FLAGS that would indicate a problem... it becomes counter-productive and destroys the emotional intimacy of the relationship because it sets your mate up as an adversary.

 

Have a little faith in yourself that, should a legitimate reason become apparent, you will see it. And then be a little strict with yourself in breaking this habit.

 

In the interim, talk to your doctor about anxiety and see if s/he can set you up with some therapy.

[Missy27]

Hi. I've been with a woman for almost a year now, and I've been regularly snooping in her email and banks accounts and checking her phone records for most of the relationship.

 

Our relationship got off to a bad start. She was married a year and a half ago, her husband left her after he caught her in an affair, and when I asked her why her marriage ended she lied. A lot. She told me dozens of lies over the first couple of months to hide the fact that she cheated and that she was still seeing the guy when she and I first started dating. But then she had trouble keeping track of the lies and I caught on, and slowly over the last several months the truth (or at least some of it) has come out.

 

I have a history of being lied to and cheated on, so finding out about this caused me a lot of anxiety. But I do understand why my g/f cheated (she was miserable in her marriage and her husband treated her badly), and also why she lied to me (she was ashamed of herself and thought I would think badly of her). So I've tried to forgive her.

 

 

She's been wonderful to me other than the lies in the first few months, and has promised she'll never lie to me again. And she does seem like a different person now - she has a lot more self-esteem and she says she's this is the best relationship she's ever been in. I don't think she has any reason to cheat, but I can't shake the fear and mistrust that I'm feeling.

 

So I snoop. I've found a few things that have made me suspicous, but nothing conclusive and I recognize that I'm kind of paranoid at this point. And I have this feeling like I won't be able to trust anyone in a relationship for a long time because of this. So I'm not sure I'll be any better off trying again with someone else right now.

 

If I did ever find anything damning by snooping I would break up with her, and I think that's why I snoop. We talked about her lying and I said I forgave her for it, but I just can't get past it. But I don't feel right about breaking up with her for the mistakes she made if she really has changed. So I guess I'm looking for proof that she hasn't really changed. And while I haven't found that proof yet, I can't stop looking.

 

So what should I do? Break up with her, because I can't get past what she did even if she has changed? Stop snooping, and try to fight the very strong feelings of anxiety, fear and mistrust I know I'll be feeling? Or keep snooping, at least until some time has past and I start trusting her again

 

Dont try and fix what ain't broken.

 

Your GF hasn't REALLY given you any reason to think that she has cheated on you, apart from what YOU have decided to hold onto from her past.

 

I don't condone what she did to her ex H, but there are differentiating circumstances for everybody and whats good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

 

Snooping's a touchy subject. Some think it's ok to snoop, some disagree. Personally I think again, it depends on the circumstances, but I CERTAINLY would not be snooping on someone whom had not given me any just cause for suspicion. It emphasises YOUR insecurties, NOT her faithfulness.

 

Suspicion has a best friend called paranoia and when you start snooping through your GF's phone bills, messages, emails etc you are subconciously LOOKING for something out of the norm just so you can justify your own behavior. Just so you can say "see I was right". It's classic insecure behavior.

 

You gotta either trust your GF, get on and concentrate on having a good time in your relationship or ship out and find someone who doesn't make you feel so insecure. Your choice.

[whichwayisup]

You started off snooping, because you don't trust her. At all..

 

It's not a healthy relationship. You fear she will cheat on you and you're hellbent on making sure that you'll know IF something changes and she does cheat on you. If she cheats, she cheats, if she doesn't, she doesn't...You have NO control over her choices.

[Chrome Barracuda]

You started off snooping, because you don't trust her. At all..

 

It's not a healthy relationship. You fear she will cheat on you and you're hellbent on making sure that you'll know IF something changes and she does cheat on you. If she cheats, she cheats, if she doesn't, she doesn't...You have NO control over her choices.

 

She's given him good reason not to trust her. She's a liar, a habitual one at that. That's not a good way to start off a relationship. And besides she was messing with someone behind his back when they first hooked up?!

 

Shouldnt that be enough cause for alarm right there,

[whichwayisup]

I agree, sorry I didn't make my post clear, I realize that now.

 

They need to talk, and she needs to give him passwords to her email account, cell phone access so he can look openly whenever he needs to. If she has nothing to hide, then it won't be a big deal for her if he looks in on her email account.

 

Bottomline, he has to decide to give her a chance and back off abit, or end the relationship. Staying this way, snooping all the time is going to drive him nuts! That and maybe going to a counsellor to talk out his own personal issues, because he's been cheated on before in the past too, excluding her cheating on him....He has insecurities and trust issues to begin with, so throw that into the mix, it's harder for him to really want to trust her.

[JustBreathe]

I say you've only been going with her for a year and you are already being driven crazy with suspicion. She cheated on you by sleeping with the OM she had the affair with while you were dating her.

 

I think you should take a break from her. No contact with her for a bit. Tell her why. That you don't trust her because she has already cheated on you and that you need to clear your head and think about what you really want. If she loves you, she will respect your wishes, and offer to do what she can to help you heal.

 

I think a year out is too soon that you should already to have to suffer through all of this crazy stuff. Too painful. She isn't even your wife. You don't have children with her. Why put yourself through this agony? Isn't it enough you have already been through it once? Once was all I could handle. If my H cheated on me again, I could not stand it and would have to break it off... even after a quarter century being married. It is debilitating to live with distrust.

 

Have you thought abuot some counseling or therapy to figure out why you are attracted to cheating women? Maybe it's a pattern you need to break? There are MANY many women who would not cheat on you. You don't have to deal with this.

[dazednconfusedagain]

Wow... some very helpful and insightful advice there. Thanks everyone! You've all given me a lot to think about.

 

For the record, she didn't sleep (or says she didn't sleep) with the OM while we were dating... she had tried to end it with him when I first asked her out and stayed away from him for a month or so, but ended up talking to him on the phone a few more times after that. She stopped talking to him after our second date (which was three weeks after our first date, and was when we really "hit it off"), and her phone bills confirm that part of her story. Now I don't expect exclusivity after one date, but it's the fact that she lied about it and tried to hide it that really worried me. Does that change anyone's opinion?

 

As for therapy -- I actually went to a therapist for a while earlier this year (and a few years ago too), but have stopped going for financial reasons. The therapist told me that it could take up to a year to regain trust, but basically said I should stick it out and learn to manage my anxiety and insecurity. So that's what I've been trying to do... without much success.

 

And as for trying to figure out why I end up with women who cheat, I think I already know the answer. Because I'm insecure, I attract insecure women. Normal women with healthy self-esteems just aren't attracted to me. I attract women who have had relationships with jerks, and who are looking for a nice guy who will treat them well. That means they bring a lot of baggage into the relationship, and also some nasty habits. They always seem healthy at the start, but after a few months of pretending their real self emerges. I think to attract a different type of woman I would have to become a different person, and I've tried to do that for many years without much success.

 

As for my current relationship, I've thought about ending it a lot but there's some part of me that says it would be a mistake. It's probably the same part of me that believes that people can change and deserve a second chance. And other than the lying she's been very good to me - better than any other woman I've been with. I believe she's sincere about not wanting to lie to me or cheat on me, but I also know that good intentions aren't necessarily enough.

 

So what I really need to know is if she's really changed (in which case I should stay), or if temptation comes her way that she'll end up cheating on me. And how are you supposed to know that, unless you snoop? Deep down I want to stay, but the thought of being cheated on again just scares the hell out of me.

 

Any more advice?

[Lizzie60]

my gut feeling is that you'll eventually get hurt but you know better than anyone here what you have to do... follow your instinct. She might change (I doubt it) or she might end up cheating on you (most probable) but if you leave her and find another woman, this woman might end up hurting you too... unless you really change yourself and build more self confidence. You need to focus on yourself... I know it's not easy, get some good books from a library (or Internet), try to get as many tips as possible to build up self-esteem, try the ones that you like and see if it works for you.

 

You have a pretty good aptitude to analyse yourself. keep working on that. Good luck!

[Ladyjane14]

Because I'm insecure, I attract insecure women. Normal women with healthy self-esteems just aren't attracted to me.

 

Maybe the insecurity you're feeling is because YOUR self-esteem is too low?

 

It sounds like you're already aware of that. Just because you don't have the money for therapy doesn't mean that you can't start working on it though. Usually, if you sit down and think about it.. you already kind of know what things you need to work on in order to feel better about yourself.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't get back into therapy. But if you need to build up your finances for a while... it doesn't mean your inner work should come to a screeching halt. Start with what you already know about yourself.

 

Meantime, it sounds like you really LIKE this girl. Don't screw it up by micro-managing her. She won't be happy being monitored, and YOU won't be happy monitoring her. Fact is... a person can be married to a great gal or guy for thirty years, and still their spouse might flake out on them and cheat. NOBODY has any guarantees. And none of us are so special that we get to be exempt from that rule, right?

 

"Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear... And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear is gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

- Frank Herbert, Dune

 

Everybody's scared, Bubba. It's all just a matter of how you cope with it.

[dazednconfusedagain]

"Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear... And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear is gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

- Frank Herbert, Dune

 

Everybody's scared, Bubba. It's all just a matter of how you cope with it.

 

 

Thank you. Even as I was typing my last message, I knew that something had to change. I can't keep going the way I have been for the past year -- not for the sake of her or the relationship, but for my own sake. I've been miserable for a lot of our relationship, and I finally accepted after reading your posts that something had to change.

 

So as I see it, my options are 1) break up with her or 2) change my thoughts and behaviours. I don't seem to want to do #1, so #2 it will have to be. At least for a month or so -- then hopefully I'll be able to more clearly see how much of my anxiety has been caused by my insecurities and how much of it was my instinct.

 

But the truth is I think the snooping may have been making me feel more insecure than anything else. To snoop meant I had to be thinking mistrustful thoughts. No snooping = less mistrustful thoughts = less anxiety. I'm sure mistrustful thoughts are still going to pop up, but I'm going to think about them rationally instead of letting them overwhelm me.

 

It really does come down to fear -- fear of being hurt, when she's already proven she's willing to hurt me (and others). But I need to keep reminding myself that even if she does cheat it's not the end of the world. I've built it up to be this absolutely horrible thing, but I need to keep it in perspective. Yes it would hurt, but if she did it I would leave her and it would be her loss.

 

So I've committed myself to stopping the snooping, the negative thinking and the other unhealthy behaviours I've adopted in the last year (smoking, overeating). I'm not trying to force myself to trust her, but I'm stopping the behaviours that were making me unhappy and preventing trust from ever being possible with her. Like I said, I'll try that for a month, and then see where I'm at.

 

So thanks again everyone for your advice -- it was really helpful.

[Ladyjane14]

Good for you. :)

I sounds like you're gearing up for some changes.

 

I think a month might not be long enough to really assess the situation though. Three might be better. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.

 

And don't be afraid to ask your girl for some help if you need it. Sometimes what we need the most is a little extra reassurance. It's better to ask for it than to build resentment because it wasn't offered. She doesn't have a crystal ball so she doesn't know what you need unless you tell her.

 

Alot of it depends on HOW you ask. You don't want to come off as demanding or needy... but if you let her know that she's a great girl and that you worry somebody's going to come along and carry her off, you're connecting with her in a way that's complimenting as well as informational.

 

She might not mind checking in with you a little more often if she knows it's meaningful and special to you, something that you receive as a gift.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I wouldnt trust her if I was you, remember past behavior is an indicator for things to come. Things might be all good and rosy right about now. But if you stop snooping how do you know she isnt in contact with the OM or any other man she might be infatuated with.

 

Affairs are like addictions. I dont think this woman is capable of being in one with a stable man. Yeah you may be parenoid but you have legitimate reasons to be.

 

She isnt doing nothing to assauge your fears if she keeps doing things that throw red flags in your face!

 

Dont snoop if your going to make this work but keep your eyes open. If she's willing to have an exit affair to get away from her husband in a cowardly act. Imagine what she'll do to you when she get's to that same place again?

 

Be aware.

[Trialbyfire]

"Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear... And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear is gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

- Frank Herbert, Dune

Lj, love the quote. Thanks for the reminder. There's so much in Herbert's writings, science fantasy or not. The man was a genius with his tapestries of intrigue, interwoven with politics, military might and religion.

 

Now, back to topic. OP, it's up to you if you feel you can trust her. More importantly than if she will lie and/or cheat, is if you truly believe that she can and has changed. The incessant checking does you no good at all. It feeds your insecurity and will slowly kill your relationship, regardless of her actions.

[Frances]

Snooping can become a very bad habit. it drives you mad over time. Since I found out about my h EA last summer I have been snooping nearly every day.

 

You have only been going out 1 year so get out of it and get someone you can trust. For me its 34 years nearly 35 now so my choices are not very easy to make. You can make a choice now. You are not married and do not have family to consider.

 

Look after yourself, get out of the relationship, it will be heartache down the road for you.

[dazednconfusedagain]

Thanks again everyone. I hear what some of you are saying - that I'm taking a risk if I stay - but after making my decision to stop snooping on Friday I feel a lot about better about taking that risk.

 

The truth is, aside from some retroactive jealousy about the man she cheated on her husband with, most of my fear and anxiety was about a very specific type of cheating. When I was cheated on before, it was by someone who said she was happy with me, loved the way I treated her and wanted to stay with me, but she was curious about this other man. She liked the attention from him, wanted to have some fun with him, but didn't intend to leave me. And that's the type of cheating that terrifies me.

 

If a relationship turns bad and someone cheats, I understand (but don't condone) it, because it takes two sides to make a relationship go bad. I treat my gf wonderfully and try to make sure all of her emotional needs are met, and plan to continue to do so. So my fear wasn't of her leaving me for someone better, but of meeting someone new and thinking "hey, this could be fun."

 

But that wasn't what her cheating was for her before... she was miserable in her marriage and wanted out. We talked a lot this weekend, and I shared how anxious I've been about things. She was very understanding and supportive, and shared more about how miserable she was in the months (and years) before she cheated.

 

I feel a lot better about things now. She made it clear she knows how great I am for her, and that she knows she would be an idiot to do anything that could mess that up, and that she has no interest in doing anything that could mess it up because I give her everything she wants.

 

Some of you might think she's just fooling me and telling me what I want to hear, or that things may change in the future, and maybe that's true. But I really felt she was being sincere with me, and I've decided that while it may be a risk to stay with her it's a risk I'm willing to take. And since Friday I've realized that I was the one who was making me crazy (by obsessing over the possibility she might cheat), not her or her current behaviour. And now I'm starting to see things in a better perspective and thinking clearly again.

 

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong, but again, it's a chance I'm willing to take. The bottom line is there's a risk she could cheat, but there's also a chance she has changed and I know she feels very strongly about never repeating the mistakes from her past. And that's enough for now, because I believe the good things about our relationship make taking that risk a worthwhile one.

[whichwayisup]

Well, let's hope her actions follow her words and promises that she won't cheat on you.

 

She has to not hide anything or be sneaky, and you take things slowly, build up that trust in her again.

 

Hope things go well!

[amerikajin]

Hi. I've been with a woman for almost a year now, and I've been regularly snooping in her email and banks accounts and checking her phone records for most of the relationship.

 

Our relationship got off to a bad start. She was married a year and a half ago, her husband left her after he caught her in an affair, and when I asked her why her marriage ended she lied. A lot. She told me dozens of lies over the first couple of months to hide the fact that she cheated and that she was still seeing the guy when she and I first started dating. But then she had trouble keeping track of the lies and I caught on, and slowly over the last several months the truth (or at least some of it) has come out.

 

I have a history of being lied to and cheated on, so finding out about this caused me a lot of anxiety. But I do understand why my g/f cheated (she was miserable in her marriage and her husband treated her badly), and also why she lied to me (she was ashamed of herself and thought I would think badly of her). So I've tried to forgive her.

 

 

She's been wonderful to me other than the lies in the first few months, and has promised she'll never lie to me again. And she does seem like a different person now - she has a lot more self-esteem and she says she's this is the best relationship she's ever been in. I don't think she has any reason to cheat, but I can't shake the fear and mistrust that I'm feeling.

 

So I snoop. I've found a few things that have made me suspicous, but nothing conclusive and I recognize that I'm kind of paranoid at this point. And I have this feeling like I won't be able to trust anyone in a relationship for a long time because of this. So I'm not sure I'll be any better off trying again with someone else right now.

 

If I did ever find anything damning by snooping I would break up with her, and I think that's why I snoop. We talked about her lying and I said I forgave her for it, but I just can't get past it. But I don't feel right about breaking up with her for the mistakes she made if she really has changed. So I guess I'm looking for proof that she hasn't really changed. And while I haven't found that proof yet, I can't stop looking.

 

So what should I do? Break up with her, because I can't get past what she did even if she has changed? Stop snooping, and try to fight the very strong feelings of anxiety, fear and mistrust I know I'll be feeling? Or keep snooping, at least until some time has past and I start trusting her again?

 

Is snooping justified? Yes, when there is probable cause to believe that your partner is withholding the truth.

 

But you get to the truth and then you decide whether to stay or go, and you have known the truth about her for a long time. She's a liar. She is bad news, dude. Move on before she burns you too.

[Herzen]

Absent medication and therapy, it will be easier for you to end this relationship than change your obsessive thoughts and invasive behavior.

 

Plane-glass transparency in any erotic relationship is unhealthy and rare. We're human, we all have secrets. To demand absolute transparency is wrong and ultimately ineffective. I don't bare all aspects of my soul to someone merely because we f#ck.

 

I suspect that you have a delusional disorder that verges on erotic paranoia. I believe that you enjoy snooping because it gives you the illusion of control and the (false) feeling of power in the relationship. It is you, my friend, who feels insecure.

 

All erotic relationships involve risks. If the risks cause severely destructive patterns in new relationships, such as suspicions and paranoid ideation,it's time to seek counseling and treatment.

 

You seem like a bright and insightful guy. When resources allow, get back into treatment. Otherwise this self-destructive pattern will keep repeating.

[Carbine]

If you're already snooping then you've probably justified it to yourself already.

 

I don't think there's a single answer to your question - the whole snooping thing is one of those issues that's completely immersed in the 'grey' area. I'm an avid snooper I'll admit. A lot of the time it can actually set your mind at ease. And a lot of the time it can completely do your head in. The thing is, if you're snooping, you're more likely to interepret something you might find as being highly suspicious or something that constitutes cheating because your mind is tuned that way at the time.

 

One experience I'll never forget - it was either just before or just after my bf and i split up for good. I was snooping through his mobile phone text messages and I found one that was sent from his phone to an unrecognised number. The message said "Sorry baby, i'm not ignoring you. I've run out of credit. Call you later Love you and miss you". I immediately freaked out and confronted him about it. He said that he'd been out with his friends a few nights ago and had lent his phone to a few people and one of them had sent the message. I still accused him, even though the message refers to the sender having a prepaid account and my ex has a billed account. I told him this and said to him that I felt he was trying to cover his tracks in the message. He got very angry and said "well if you don't trust me and don't believe me then you can get lost" and went home in a rage.

 

I rang his friend whom he mentioned had probably borrowed the phone. This friend confirmed that not only did he have a girlfriend, he hadnt been anywhere near the venue that night. I got even more upset. For months I stressed about the message, managed to get my hands on the number and kept calling it trying to figure out who it was. It went to the message bank of someone called Julia. I didn't know anyone by that name. I nearly drove myself mad.

 

Ages after this happened, I heard that a couple who used to hang out in our group had broken up. I'd always gotten along well with the girl, Lisa, although we were never friends. I decided to call her up and see how she was. She was not in good shape, and told me through tears that her bf had ended their 5-year relationship when he suddenly went back to his girlfriend from highschool. She said she strongly suspected that he'd been cheating on her, but couldn't confirm it. And then she mentioned the girl's name: Julia . I told her what i'd found and she asked me if I still had the number. I read it out to her and she's like "yep, that's her number".

 

Two things became clear; 1) My bf had not been cheating on me and had been telling the truth all along, 2) Lisa's bf had sent the msg 2 weeks before they broke up, so she had been cheated on.

 

True story