onestepback Posted May 1, 2007 Posted May 1, 2007 so its been a while since I posted..part of me hoped that if I stayed positive, this would work itself out...I have to say, unfortunately for me, the posts on this forum could not be more true. My WW left two weeks ago..She got herself an apartment 30 miles away. She moved herself out, took mostly all of her stuff...we split up the bank account... We are continuing individual and joint therapy...she was staying over here the last couple of weeks, maybe 3-4 times a week...but keeping her weekends to herself (except Sunday). No intimacy, no sexual contact...just an underlying tension... and sad remains of was once I wonderful union of two soul mates (so we thought!). I tried to talk to her tonight...she is closed...walls are up... she didn't want me there. Its a power struggle...we are both unhappy and nobody wants to take the blame. I was willing to do anything, to try to save my marriage...to make my wife happy...after 4 years, she has given up...she is afraid of "being disappointed again" when things don't go well. I don't know what her expectations were....I know that no matter what, perhaps I could never have made her happy. I am scared to cut the tie for good...I do still love her...but also know she is unwilling to grow and change...she does not want to put the work in to make this marriage work.. she has the "look" in her face...in her eyes..in her body language.. of someone that has lost their passion and love for marriage... I know that many of you know what this feels like...the pain is so difficult...I found the following free e-book on Loss of A Love very helpful: http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/sur/sr1.htm Is there any hope when one gets to this point? I am in love..with the idea that things could get better...part of me wants to give up, part of me wants to fight...but the reality is, I can't do it alone... and without my wife trying, and opening...I feel alone...and as if I am beating a dead horse. Comments please? "...and in the end...the love you take..is equal to the love...you make"
Gunny376 Posted May 1, 2007 Posted May 1, 2007 I'm not you and you're not me ~ but having gone through what I've gone through and with my experience with women ~ I would say you're not beating a dead horse ~ but you are dragging a dead one around with you everywhere you go! I've been studying marriage, men and women, relationships etc for 17 years ever since my DW out of the blue handed me my azz on the way out the door? The only guys I've ever seen that got it back together were the ones that manned up and said OK! WTF! I'm done with this! I'm moving on with my life without you! Even the ones that cheated on their wives? Guy I work with told his wife: "Damn right! I slept with her! If you don't like it? Go home and pack your trash and get out! I don't give a damn!" They're still together. Now mind you, that's relative to who you're married to? You're married to a Lady Jane, Mz Pixie, Dropdead Legs (and others here on the board that right now I can't remember their "handles) or a Record Producer ~ they're going to hand you your azz and heart to you when they're done with you and walk out the door! And your going to be like ~ just don't beat me anymore! These kind of women you don't won't to f**k with! Self assured and confidant. They make great wives, mothers, and life-mates, but don't trival with them! They don't play! Their "Big Brother" is Mr "R" and you don't won't to cross paths with him and his Louisville Slugger! Nor them! Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because a woman has a vagina ~ that's she's just a pussy! They can and will rip a lung out ~ if not a heart! During the Vietnam War it was the female VC snipers Marines feared most! One shot ~ one kill! (Ref: the movie "Full Metal Jacket")
PWSX3 Posted May 1, 2007 Posted May 1, 2007 We are continuing individual and joint therapy...she was staying over here the last couple of weeks, maybe 3-4 times a week...but keeping her weekends to herself (except Sunday). No intimacy, no sexual contact...just an underlying tension... and sad remains of was once I wonderful union of two soul mates (so we thought!). I tried to talk to her tonight...she is closed...walls are up... she didn't want me there. Its a power struggle...we are both unhappy and nobody wants to take the blame. I was willing to do anything, to try to save my marriage...to make my wife happy...after 4 years, she has given up...she is afraid of "being disappointed again" when things don't go well. so are you saying you are giving up as well? If you are still going to counseling together then I feel she hasn't given up just yet. She might be just waiting to see what happens. You say nobody wants to take the blame, well don't you think its time to take your part? You can talk the talk, but until you walk the walk your W won't believe you, she will just see it as the same old story, just another verse. You have to give 100% on your part, you have to take responsibility for your half. Do what you can to better yourself, learn what "you" can do, because even if it doesn't work out you will need it for your next relationship. I don't know what her expectations were....I know that no matter what, perhaps I could never have made her happy. I am scared to cut the tie for good...I do still love her...but also know she is unwilling to grow and change...she does not want to put the work in to make this marriage work.. You said she is going to IC so she is trying to work on something. Sounds like she is working on herself & what she can do on her part. When my W moved out she said she still wanted to work on our relationship but she sure didn't show it. Looking back I can see she just wanted away from me for a while, needed her space to think. I know you will hear a lot of people say; oh that means they have someone else, but in my case she was honest about that and she just needed to think. Now that she has started to move back in we talk and she told me she needed to miss me again, that she didn't have that feeling for me & she needed to get that back. Because of my situation I feel people sometimes do need time to themeselves (kind of a time out). Neither of us spent time with other people, we did everything together & I'm also learning that isn't a good thing. (sorry another story) she has the "look" in her face...in her eyes..in her body language.. of someone that has lost their passion and love for marriage... Like I suggested before, maybe she needs to go find that again, let her work on what she needs to & you work on what you can do and then see what happens. Is there any hope when one gets to this point? I am in love..with the idea that things could get better...part of me wants to give up, part of me wants to fight...but the reality is, I can't do it alone... and without my wife trying, and opening...I feel alone...and as if I am beating a dead horse. Until the fat lady sings there is always hope. My question for you is this; have you done everything you can do to save your marriage? My buddy asked me that when my W moved out & it was the best question anyone could have asked me. The best thing you can do for your relationship is work on "you"! Figure out what "you" can do to make it better. I'm not much of a reader, but I have read some pretty helpful books such as; His Needs, Her Needs, The Five Love Langueses. Sorry I don't remember your story, but educating ourselves doesn't hurt.
Author onestepback Posted May 1, 2007 Author Posted May 1, 2007 For more information, this was my original post: Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and have been reading many posts over the past couple of days...I would like to share my story and hopefully, some of you may have some insight and advice...it is an extremely difficult time. My wife and I have been married 3 years this past month...we were engaged rather quickly, after two months of dating (I am 38, my wife is 28). We had a year-long engagement and some problems were evident in the relationship (so much so that we went to pre-marital counseling, to work on conflict resolution...we always had difficulty with how to resolve arguements or fights and we are both defensive). Throughout the course of the marriage, we got along great for the most part. It was mainly our stupid meaningless fights that put strain on the marriage...and really there was no mental or physical abuse...although, my wife was quite nasty when we would fight i.e. cursing me out, saying terrible things...I in turn would be nasty right back...it was no doubt a power struggle. Within the past year, we were trying actively to have a baby...my wife found out she had endometriosis (a disease that decreases the chance of being able to become pregnant due to fibroid growths in the uterus)...she had endoscopy surgery but still, we were not able to conceive..we even tried ovulation kits, etc. Throughout the course of the marriage, my wife had a noticably flat affect...at the beginning, she was happy a lot of the time (during the infatuation period) but I saw this begin to fade...and she resorted to smoking marijuanna a large amount of her time. It bothered me, but I tried to bond with her on that level, smoking with her on rare occasion. Still, there was this sense that she was becomming more and more unhappy in her life...While I was developing businesses and progressing in my career, she was remaining stagnant...working as a deli manager at the health food store...she never went to college but at the beginning of the relationship, had dreams of becomming a naturopathic doctor... I tried to nurture her passions and dreams every way I could..I myself enrolled in a naturopathic study program (she decided to decline)...I would give her gifts to learn piano or start doing yoga again...but more and more she would withdraw...It seemed all she really wanted to do was hang out with her best friend from work and smoke. I tried to push us towards more of a social life, that we should hang out with other married couples...again, she was withdrawn and would never want to initiate or make long-term plans to hang out with others. She did not seem interested in hearing about my developing businesses .at the beginning, it seemed she wanted to get involved in a business like this together..when it came down to it, she had no interest...I suppose it was just not her..and perhaps my drive and achivements scared her. Recently, she told me it felt like her soul has been stifled and that my passions became more important (this was all in her head though). She felt I was dependent on the relationship at times, so I would learn to distance myself...gaining new friends, playing racquetball at the gym with new people, getting involved with my internet business, etc. Then I learned she felt I wasn't putting enough time into our relationship..I was on the internet too much of the time...it seemed I was stuck between being too dependent and being too withdrawn! I should mention, another issue she had in the marriage was early on, when she discovered I looked at a little porno. She equates that activity to cheating, so when i did it a second time, she almost ended the marriage...needless to say, I stopped looking at porno!! It all came to a head on New Years Eve this year, when we had a huge fight (because I asked her why she is so unhappy). She admitted that she is extremely unhappy in the marriage and blamed it all on me. She said I was the reason for her unhappiness...and that she does not feel the same passion for our relationship..The old story, she loves me but does not feel the "in love" feeling anymore... Although we were seeing a therapist about 6 months before, I felt we needed someone new..and I found an amazing therapist who recommended an incredible book (Getting the Love You Want by Harvey Harville). I read the book within a day and everything became so clear to me...my wife, on the other hand, did not want to read the book or be told what to do..as the therapist has told me, she is in a rebellious teenager stage (at the age of 28)...she is viewing me as her father and projecting a lot of things from the past on ME. I was devastated when I learned how she truly feels...she was refusing to really work on the marriage and showed up for therapy out of responsibility...but she was cold..and anything I would do to help (like making her a special CD of meaningful heartfelt songs or sending her chocolate at work fo Valentines Day) made things worse...she saw some sort of ulterior motive that was just not there.... we have been living under the same roof for the past 3 months, but as roommates...we sleep in the same bed, but do not make love or have affection. The therapist felt it best that my wife move out to help her "gain clarity", as my wife puts it. She is not sure what to do at this point, and living with me she not able to have insight...she is becomming annoyed with me for little things... I wrote her a letter and told her that I support her in moving out and finding herself..that I love her no matter how this turns out..and that she needs to do whatever will make her happy. It was hard, because really I don't want her to leave..but I want to support her and right now, we are stagnant.. I found out this past Sunday (Easter) that my wife did find an apartment...she cried as she told me, saying she feels maybe she is making a huge mistake by moving out...it is a month-to-month rental apartment, and she feels she needs about 2 months, 3 at the most. We agreed to not date other people during our separation...and we will continue therapy together. We will also meet 1-2 times a week for dinner and a fun activity. She feels we have to start all over again in order for us to move forward in our marriage...sort of like dating each other all over again (this is difficult to understand for me). She also said we can see how it goes and perhaps have "sleep overs"..mentioning that she will live closer to one of our favorite restaurants...it all seems so weird to me. She also describes this as a "test" for our marriage... So she is moving out this Friday and I am devastated, as the reality is really hitting home. I had individual therapy last night and found that my wife has been diagnosed...with major depression (recurring). The therapist told me this is something she has had throughout her life, not since being with me...it made me realize I really am not the root of her unhappiness, which was my biggest fear at the beginning... To be honest, everything I did was for my wife..I only wanted to make her happy in anyway I could...it all backfired..she is depressed and moving out. Any advice would surely be helpful, Thank you... One Step Back
quiet1one1 Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 Just for a reality check; if she moves out, your chances at reconciliation decrease dramatically. However, you must let her go! In the meantime you have got to stop from showing any dependence on her. No notes, calls, music, flowers, etc., etc. This will positively push her further away. Make contact ONLY when you absolutely have to. Get a life and show her you'll be OK - I hope you won't have to but even if you have to pretend, pretend. Be strong. It's your best hope. If it doesn't happen, you'll be a better person for it.
Author onestepback Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 Thank you..You are SO RIGHT about that...I have to stop myself from calling her everyday..I don't want her sympathy!!!! I am letting her go and its the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Its difficult, letting go of the person who means the most to me in this f-cked up world!! I told her on Tuesday night that we need space..I told her to call me if she needs anything...and that I want to be her friend. If not, I told her I will see her at therapy on Monday...she told me to call if I need anything as well, and that she also wants to be friends...here it is late Friday night...it will be a long weekend.
Author onestepback Posted May 5, 2007 Author Posted May 5, 2007 Oh yeah..how should I act in therapy on Monday night? Let her know that I am missing her, or show her that I am moving on??? Advice from those who have been there???
PWSX3 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 Oh yeah..how should I act in therapy on Monday night? Let her know that I am missing her, or show her that I am moving on??? Advice from those who have been there??? Be honest with yourself, let her know how you feel. Do you want to work on the relationship? If so then let her know you have made mistakes, there are things "you" could have done better & with counseling & reading you are going to learn what you need to do. It sounds like you have already told her you miss her so she knows that, & I feel you don't want to show her you are moving on if you want to get back together, but I do feel you need to show her you want to change & that maybe having this time apart will be what you need to work on these issues. Don't just say your sorry, let her know this is something you are going to work 100% at. The only person you can change is yourself & making yourself a better person whether it is for this relationship or the next one you will grow from the experience. I know in my situation the separation was the best thing that could have happened to me. I learned I could live on my own that I didn't need my W in the way I saw her before. I learned that I relied on her to make me happy and that I needed to be happy with myself. You have probably read it many times; if you chase they run, if you run they chase and I feel this is true. When my W moved out her request was NC for the first month. I was a basket case just like everyone else but I told myself this was the first way I could show her that I respect her & so I didn't contact her for anything. Once the month was over (which ended up being a little longer) I had to call her once because our MC couldn't make our meeting and she told me to call. Then little by little the W started to call me. First it was about our son, then it was about something else silly that really didn't matter, but my point is once I stopped chasing she started to do the chasing. The biggest thing I have learned here on LS is; you can never learn to much about yourself. You can never learn to much about marriage so take the time to educate yourself. You can talk until you are blue in the face, but probably won't believe you until she sees the difference. Good luck
Gunny376 Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 My, my, my,.........................look at you Perry?
quiet1one1 Posted May 7, 2007 Posted May 7, 2007 Oh yeah..how should I act in therapy on Monday night? Let her know that I am missing her, or show her that I am moving on??? Advice from those who have been there??? I'm in the middle of what you're just starting and I will tell you that our MC sessions have been awesome for me. My W knows I'm committed to making things work but she now also COMPLETELY understands that I am no longer clutching onto her or our relationship to compensate for how I feel about me or my life. I can't tell you how much I've grown. About 2-3 sessions into our MC we were at critical juncture. My W of 23+ years had been assuming (correctly?) that she held all the cards when suddenly our woman MC looks at her and says (paraphrasing) "you know, a good part of the time the person who decides to finally end the marriage is the person being left, not the person leaving. This person discovers there is life without the other, grows personally, and maybe even finds there are other fish in the sea." Well this set my W back quickly. This direct advice, combined with the confident way I had been behaving and the things I was able to say to her during MC, I believe made her decide to not separate but rather stay at home and work on things. I gotta tell you too that listening to our MC say that was so liberating and positive for ME to hear! We are 5 months into it and while it is all still "pending" things are better and there's hope. My W and I are both obviously reaching-out to the other and so far we are enjoying life together more than we have in many years. Will that be enough? We'll find out very soon, I think. Good luck.
quiet1one1 Posted May 7, 2007 Posted May 7, 2007 one more thing... Maybe you've already seen it but if not, check out the list posted by LadyJane in reply #19 under thread "scared and in need" by kunfused. Someone on this site posted that for me and it helped me a lot.
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