Johnboy Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 I have been married going on 8 years now. Our marriage has been sexless for most of those 8 years, and I'm losing my mind over it. It started out really well, the whole time we were dating and the first 3 months of our marriage was great, but ever since then it's been nothing but fighting, unanswered questions, and the slipping of my sanity. About a year and a half ago, I finally snapped and told my wife I wanted out, that I couldn't do this anymore. We talked for a few hours, and ended up having sex afterwards. It went well for another 4 months, but reverted right back to nothing. I am having such trouble concentrating on anything, and have constant thoughts about cheating or just packing my things and running away. We have had countless talks about this, countless, and the answers I get are usually "I don't know", which drives me even more up the wall. She has had a lot of excuses too, but they never pan out, I mean when she was working she said she was too stressed from work, but then when she quit her job she was too stressed from trying to find another job.................... mmkkkk yeah. I tell her a lot that things need to change, and she makes nice and agrees, but nothing does. I'm so sad and frustrated and lonely, I just don't know what to do anymore. Anything has to be better than this, there is nothing worse than loving someone, doing everything for them, and not getting any love back. I just don't know what to do anymore, and my heart breaks a little more each day. I'd appreciate any advice, this was more for me to rant than anything, but if anyone can offer up any advice I'd appreciate it.
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 Marriages can go sexless for a variety of reasons: 1. The woman didn't like sex to begin with and used it as a bait and switch to seal the deal of marriage. 2. Medical problems: hormonal imbalances, thyroid problems, depression/anxiety. 3. Boredom - sex with the same person can be hot, but it can also become mundane and predictable. 4. Emotional unhappiness: if she doesn't feel emotional intimacy with you and it translates to a lack of physical intimacy. 5. She is cheating on you and is saving the good stuff for the OM. 6. She feels you are more interested in sex than you are in her as a person (yes, its a strange way to think about it but some women really do think that if a man loves her enough he will be able to overcome his need for sex) 7. Problems in her past: sexual molestation, rape, physical violence, emotional/physical parental abuse, religious indoctrination of "sex is bad", etc. Could be one, could be several, could be none. The bottom line is that for her sex isn't a necessary part of being married. For you it is. Either find a common ground through some intensive counseling or leave and find someone who is more in tune with your needs. It won't be easy - I expect she is as firm in her belief that she is "right" as you are. Common ground can be very, very difficult to find when it comes to sexual relations in marriage (or lack thereof so to speak).
Storyrider Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 Your description of your wife sounds exactly like me. I can come up with a bunch of different reasons and/or excuses, but the bottom line remains the same--he wants sex more than I do. I'm starting to find ways of dealing with it, but more by luck (sort of) and trial and error than anything else. LB's list is pretty thorough, and I think often it is several reasons all tangled up together, not just one. I would add a few more possibilities: 1. Ongoing unexpressed anger and guilt in the relationship 2. Power and control struggles/passive aggression 3. A parent/child way of relating rather than husband and wife 4. Trouble in some areas of sexual compatibility, attraction 5. Frustration at some aspect of the mechanics of it--birth control, premature ejaculation, inability to orgasm, etc. Whatever the cause, she needs to find a solution or at least a workaround that gets things to an acceptable level for you. She has to want to fix it. As a last ditch effort, giving her an ultimatum might not be a bad idea.
SoleMate Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 To me, a sexless marriage that is driving one party to despair and heartbreak is one of the most complex situations around. There are a huge number of causes, and solutions tend to be complex as well. It's easy to start getting bad advice from people who think of only ONE possible cause because it's the one they're familiar with. Fortunately, our clever LSers have avoided this trap. They've pointed out the many things that could be going on. But you can't start effective treatment until you've done a thorough diagnosis. I recommend reading The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. It's the best ever discusion of all causes PLUS practical solutions. You will find her to be very sympathetic to the pain you're in. (BTW, did you know that it's not just men who complain of lack of marital sex? In something like 30-40% of cases, it's the female partner who wants more than she is getting.) I also recommend His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley. He has hard data showing that what a woman needs emotionally from marriage is different from what a man needs. I know, I know....statement of the obvious, but it's amazing how this fact is not really internalized by so many people in our society. In his view, a successful marriage is one where the wife does a great job fulfilling the husband's top needs, and vice versa. You will not be surprised to hear that for many/most men, the #1 most important emotional need they desire to fulfill in marriage is their sexual need. The thing (some) women don't understand is the extent to which this is a heartfelt emotional need (EN) men have. You know that something is an EN when getting fulfilled makes you very happy...and not getting it fulfilled leaves you very sad. Her top ENs may include Conversation or Family Commitment... and if you're doing a great job fulfilling those, she may be blind to the fact that your ENs are very different. I know you've communicated with her...but just be aware that she'll cling to her female perspective longer and harder than the Pope insisted the Earth was flat. After you and she both get educated via these two books, it may be time for a loving, constructive, relationship-focussed ultimatum. Please search for my other posts about this on LS.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 I could never be in a sexless marriage, Is she gay? is she attracted to you? Is she inlove with another man and hates being with you. I also agree with that bait and switch crap, that is cruel for people to do that, getting married to say your marraige is a sham!!! If you dont have kids I would consider filing for divorce. 8 years!!! no sex!!!! what kind of man would live that way? I'm 26 and never been married but had plenty of girlfriends and whatnot. but at the same time if you cant sustain a marriage where both of you are satisfied, what's the point? I know any relationship is hard work, but if your meeting all her Emotional needs than if she's not meeting yours, and doesnt want to or cant. It's time to bounce. I dont think anybody should stay in a sexless marriage. If you do everything in your power to make it work and the other person isnt doing ****? why should you?!! My advice: Run!!!
PandorasBox Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 My advice: Run!!! Oh yes, thats the answer. That needs to be a last resort when all else has been tried. How about MC? Have you all tried that yet? Are you both willling to go? I understand you all have rehashed this over and over again just for her to say, "I don't know." My guess is, she does know but just doesn't want to say. Get into marriage counseling ASAP. Get her to talk with her medical doctor, to see if there is any depression or something medically wrong going on, so they can rule that out.
Storyrider Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 I understand you all have rehashed this over and over again just for her to say, "I don't know." My guess is, she does know but just doesn't want to say. If there were one simple reason she would probably say.
PandorasBox Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 If there were one simple reason she would probably say. True. And there could be a mixture of reasons. But No, it doesn't really mean she would say for sure or not.
Storyrider Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 True. And there could be a mixture of reasons. But No, it doesn't really mean she would say for sure or not. When there is a mixture of reasons, it doesn't feel right when you name just one. The one sounds false and silly when you say it out loud. And then if you name several it sounds like you're complaining or bashing your spouse and you're afraid it will be hurtful. Plus, it is kind of like asking why are you obsessive compulsive about germs, or why you have an irrational fear of heights, or why you feel the need to smoke. It isn't the kind of question where an answer is right on the tip of your tongue. You just know it is something about you that is bad but you can't seem to change. Ultimately "Why?" may not be the right question, but maybe the more helpful question is what is she willing to do about it, and then action needs to take over.
luvstarved Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 I wish I had more hopeful advice. I have been wrestling with the same thing, our stories are very much the same except I am the female...otherwise, together ten years, first two years of sex were great, but still 8 years of emptiness. Like you I also had a blowup and said I would leave if things didn't change, and they did...sorta...although the sex was impersonal, reserved for the same time, same place, no foreplay, etc. I too have tried everything I can think of. I too get conflicting and lame stories when I try to talk about it. I too have felt heartbroken and spent many sleepless nights agonizing over WHY life is like this and WHAT can I do to change it?!! Currently, we are seeing a MC who also is a certified sex therapist. We have been 3 times and haven't really focused on the sex part yet, but I certainly picked him with that in mind. Just biding my time...I want my H to get really comfortable and confident with this guy first, or else he will just get angry when I bring up the subject and bail on counseling...again. Other than that, I have backed off. Physically and emotionally. I am hoping that this MC will help but at the same time trying to think...whatever! I have tried TOOOOO hard for no reward and have just HAD It. LSers will tell you that withdrawing is BAAAAD, but I've got no other tools left and at this point am trying to protect my own sanity. My H notices this and now needs more reassurance "you love me, don't you?" and I am like,yeah big deal!!! I am also just trying to throw myself into other things and most important of all not take any crap from him, as I have in the past trying to please him...or keep him appeased. I am also masturbating a lot more!!! That takes some of the edge off, although it isn't the same. The last two times he initiated sex (there IS some variety, sometimes he says "should we" and other times "ya wanna"), I just refused. Which really threw him for a loop...but right now I do feel I would rather have no sex at all than this obligatory, marital duty mercy sex he's been offering. So...getting around to the "advice" portion: Yes I would find a MC but DO NOT just grab a name out of the yellow pages, shop around and try to find one that is philosophically compatible, I have wasted a fair amount of time on sub-competent MCs. Just check the internet, you don't have to do interviews and all that. Second: try to be at peace with yourself that you have done everything that you could. Try not to dwell on it. Do other things. Do NOT sniff after her like a starving puppy. Don't continue to give more than you are getting, if that is the case. Stand up for yourself and don't let it affect your self-esteem. Start working on improving yourself, whatever that may mean to you. If she doesn't appreciate it, you will still have improved yourself and will feel better about yourself - not to mention make yourself more "marketable" should you end up leaving and looking for someone else!! Masturbate and let yourself enjoy it, rather than feeling sorry for yourself that you have to resort to it. These are the things I am trying to do, and they are slowly starting to help. Since it is a gradual process and I still have too many moments when I let it bother me, I try to let it bother me in a different way. When I am alone and start to think about it, I burst into songs with spontaneous lyrics kind of making fun of the situation - and him, actually. They get pretty raunchy and insulting, but what the heck, they do make me feel better I am just hanging on now in hopes the MC will help. Failing that, I surely will leave eventually, but in the meantime, just trying to not let it hurt so much, and focus on MYSELF instead of him.
Mr. Lucky Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 Her top ENs may include Conversation or Family Commitment... and if you're doing a great job fulfilling those, she may be blind to the fact that your ENs are very different. I know you've communicated with her...but just be aware that she'll cling to her female perspective longer and harder than the Pope insisted the Earth was flat. Very good point and really well put . I'm also amazed at the number of people that post here that assume that if they are happy, their partner must be happy too. Not always the case... Mr. Lucky
dropdeadlegs Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 I'll throw out one more possibility as for a reason: poor body image, ie" feeling ugly or unattractive, thereby uncomfortable naked. This thread is full of a lot of good information. Ultimately, understanding and accepting that lack of sex is a problem for your partner (you) and being willing to do whatever it takes to overcome it for the sake of the continued relationship is what is needed. Unfortunately, that's not a simple answer, nor a quick fix.
Author Johnboy Posted April 29, 2007 Author Posted April 29, 2007 Wow lots of good advice. I have not tried or even looked into MC because I don't think she would go, but it might be something to talk about anyhow. Maybe a step before an ultimatum? I have also been (for a while) using defense tactics such as pulling away sometimes and not being as sweet as I used to be, and I have been trying to enjoy time with myself without that feeling of "is this all I have left". I will probably check those books out too and see what they have to say. My heart goes out to all of you in similar situations, thank you for sharing and the advice, it's much appreciated.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 My advice: Run!!! Oh yes, thats the answer. That needs to be a last resort when all else has been tried. How about MC? Have you all tried that yet? Are you both willling to go? I understand you all have rehashed this over and over again just for her to say, "I don't know." My guess is, she does know but just doesn't want to say. Get into marriage counseling ASAP. Get her to talk with her medical doctor, to see if there is any depression or something medically wrong going on, so they can rule that out. Yeah I agree running should be the ultimate last resort. I also agree everything should be done and no stone left unturned. But 8 years and no sex what kind of life is that. If I wanted to be a virgin again I'd just be by myself. I can understand why affairs happen if your not meeting your emotional needs of your SO. But you got to bring this to a head now, or it will never change. but I dont know john. You do love her I get that but when is it when your in a marriage that your just complacent with things. You should always strive for the best. Working out, being intimate, more emotionally open. But there needs to be a resolution. I wish you all the luck in the world.
Horse Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 I wish I had more hopeful advice. I have been wrestling with the same thing, our stories are very much the same except I am the female...otherwise, together ten years, first two years of sex were great, but still 8 years of emptiness. Like you I also had a blowup and said I would leave if things didn't change, and they did...sorta...although the sex was impersonal, reserved for the same time, same place, no foreplay, etc. Me too... It started out great, slowly declined to one Saturday a month, shortly after noon, after a shower... only in the bedroom... but you have to hurry because we have important stuff to do today, like mow the lawn. Now it's even worse. It is ironic that if you read the infidelity threads it seems like all of the cheating spouses all seem to do the same things and used the same lies... And if you read these no sex posts, it seems like the neglecting spouses all pretty much do the same things and have the same excuses. Advice: If you want things to work out, don't withdraw for too long. I did and now I'm having a hard time finding the motivation to try again to make things work. If she did a magical 180 and turned into the perfect wife, I don't know if I would ever feel the way I used to. If you don't have kids yet, don't even think about having any until this is resolved. She will have more reasons/excuses and you will have more reasons to give it "one more try."
Mr. Lucky Posted April 29, 2007 Posted April 29, 2007 She will have more reasons/excuses and you will have more reasons to give it "one more try." I agree with all the ideas posted so far in this thread - MC, extra effort, "one more try", etc. But I also think that there has to be an "exit strategy" in place and your partner has to know what's at stake. I'd work my butt off trying to understand, change and improve things for 12 to 24 months - but 8 years, no way. At some point, you've had time to attend every program, read every book and post in every forum. If, after doing all that - and I mean making a sincere effort, not just going through the motions - nothing has changed, then one of two things is true about your partner: 1). They can't change 2). They won't change Neither one works for me and I wouldn't waste the rest of my life under those circumstances. So John, my advice to you would be to take the next year or so and REALLY work on your marriage. If things improve sexually, then that's great. If they don't, don't be afraid to go to Plan B. Life is too short to go through another 8 years of what you've been experiencing. I hope it works out for you... Mr. Lucky
dropdeadlegs Posted May 3, 2007 Posted May 3, 2007 I agree with all the ideas posted so far in this thread - MC, extra effort, "one more try", etc. But I also think that there has to be an "exit strategy" in place and your partner has to know what's at stake. I'd work my butt off trying to understand, change and improve things for 12 to 24 months - but 8 years, no way. At some point, you've had time to attend every program, read every book and post in every forum. If, after doing all that - and I mean making a sincere effort, not just going through the motions - nothing has changed, then one of two things is true about your partner: 1). They can't change 2). They won't change Neither one works for me and I wouldn't waste the rest of my life under those circumstances. So John, my advice to you would be to take the next year or so and REALLY work on your marriage. If things improve sexually, then that's great. If they don't, don't be afraid to go to Plan B. Life is too short to go through another 8 years of what you've been experiencing. I hope it works out for you... Mr. Lucky I agree with Mr. Lucky. Set a goal date, or a deadline if you prefer, and move on to the next phase. Good luck.
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