violet_lily Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 I am engaged to be married to a man who lost his good job (after our engagement) and is now settling in a new career. I have been supporting him through the job loss, through his year of schooling, and now a year after his graduation, he is still barely making 25% of his old salary. At times I get resentful that I have to pay the rent, buy all the groceries, etc. He does take care of the cable bill, because I flatly refuse to pay for an unnecessary expense. When I ask him to contribute just $200 per month towards the rent, he gets uncomfortable and says he can't afford it. When I ask if he can find a better job, he just says he wants to keep stable and move up a bit in his current location. I didn't marry him for his money, but I was hoping we would be further along at this point in our lives, with a house. Right now, I'm planning the wedding, but I'm sad that I will have to pay for everything, including the rings and honeymoon. I am a practical girl, NOT a gold-digger. I worked hard to get far in my career, but sometimes I wonder if I should get another partner whose money level is a little closer to my own.
JackJack Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 If you feel this strongly, DO NOT get married until you feel this issue has been resolved. Or you will grow to resent him even more. I understand you feel he should make a little more and contribute more, but your last statement about wondering if you should get a new partner whose money level is a little closer to yours sounds a bit selfish. JMO.
whichwayisup Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 What if you lost your job, and the situations were reversed? Wouldn't you expect your future H to support you? When you get married, it isn't "I pay for this, I pay for that" it becomes "WE pay for this, and WE pay for that." Definately sort this out, JJ is right. IF you are having this much of an issue with whats' going on now, I shudder to think what life will be like in 10 or 15 years from now, especially if money is still an issue.
Author violet_lily Posted April 25, 2007 Author Posted April 25, 2007 What if you lost your job, and the situations were reversed? Wouldn't you expect your future H to support you? Of course I would, and I know he would do it. But I would also feel obligated, and do my damnedest to help him pay the bills, even if I had to work two jobs. My mother thinks he's not motivated enough, and an acquaintance commented that maybe he's just taking advantage of me, and the comments haven't left my mind. I mean, it's not like he's disabled and CAN'T work...
tommyr Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 You did not mention specifics about his new career path. Is he finding non-monetary rewards in this new job? Is it a non-profit, educational, or religious setting? If its just a plain-old job (which happens to pay 1/4 of his previous salary) then I don't blame you for wondering what the heck is he up to. So this young guy, about to be married and buy a house, suddenly is A-OK working at an easy/un-challenging job and earning 25 cents this year for every dollar made last year? This would worry me too!
Trialbyfire Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Did you ever notice that part of some severance packages include therapy? There's a reason for that. It's the opportunity for someone like your fiancé to get his head straight before embarking on another career path. He might be feeling depressed about his previous job and his current earning power. Give him some slack. Why not roll back on the wedding plans so you can save some money for those potential bad times? Btw, you need to resolve this before the two of you get married. Different directions and expectations in life are not a good way to enter into something as serious as a potential life partner commitment.
Author violet_lily Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 The new job is more of a technical vocation that a career - his old gig was in computers and we've all heard of the outsourcing in that industry. He has potential to be making decent money once he learns the trade more, but honestly, I'm frustrated at the current situation. And he's aware of that. We (were) planning a VERY small wedding, FWIW.
caramba Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Don't get married. Marriage is for richer and poorer and that's no joke. The man is trying for gods sake. He is learning a trade and trying to get a new thing going. I'm sure he must feel really depressed and unhappy about this too. I think you need to support and encourage him through this instead of giving him sh*t about not making enough money. Just my 2 cents...sorry if its not what you want to hear.
Author violet_lily Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 Don't get married. Marriage is for richer and poorer and that's no joke. The man is trying for gods sake. He is learning a trade and trying to get a new thing going. I'm sure he must feel really depressed and unhappy about this too. I think you need to support and encourage him through this instead of giving him sh*t about not making enough money. Just my 2 cents...sorry if its not what you want to hear. I welcome all input. How come so many marriages unravel over money issues, then? I have supported this man for almost three years. I have shopped thrift shops and clipped coupons and paid his tuition with the remainder. I would like to see a minimal return on investment, to be so crude and heartless. Love don't pay the rent.
norajane Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 The new job is more of a technical vocation that a career - his old gig was in computers and we've all heard of the outsourcing in that industry. He has potential to be making decent money once he learns the trade more, but honestly, I'm frustrated at the current situation. And he's aware of that. We (were) planning a VERY small wedding, FWIW. Is this technical vocation something he enjoys, wants to do, and plans to stick with until he learns enough to make a better salary? Meaning, is this his intended career path? Is the better salary going to be enough for him to contribute to expenses enough that you won't feel taken advantage of? Or is he always going to be making barely enough to get by? And yes, there is outsourcing, but that doesn't mean computer/IT jobs are not available. SAP skills and Oracle skills, for example, are generally in high demand and pay very well. The consulting industry is still hiring green beans out of college to program for clients. Did he look for another job in the industry? Is that something he doesn't plan to look into anymore? I guess his skills are a year or two old now - the longer he waits, the harder it will be for him to get back into it. Anyway - the others are right. Marriage is for richer or for poorer. The two of you need to understand each other and generally agree on what kind of lifestyle you want and expect to work for. If you have different standard of living expectations than he does, it's very likely you're going to fight about money for as long as he is in a low paying job, and maybe throughout your lives.
Jinxx Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 I welcome all input. How come so many marriages unravel over money issues, then? I have supported this man for almost three years. I have shopped thrift shops and clipped coupons and paid his tuition with the remainder. I would like to see a minimal return on investment, to be so crude and heartless. Love don't pay the rent. You're getting some good advice here. I also agree with not getting married. Wait until he gets back on his feet. You will end up harboring resentment towards him in the long run.
luvstarved Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 VL, I am jumping onto this topic from two angles. 1) If he is working hard toward something and just won't be making as much as you...and his "former self"...and this is a dealbreaker for you then definitely break the deal. Your relationship will not take the pressure. If it bothers you now, that will only amplify over time. My H made less than half what I did when we met, now the discrepancy is more like a third less so things can change though... 2) WHOA! Hold the phone! WHEN did he get laid off in computer industry and WHAT skills does he have? Is he aware that it has made a huge comeback??? Listen to this. I lost a VERY high paying job 6 years ago in software development. I was Principal Software Engineer at large company. Had 20 years experience. I could not get another software job to save my butt for almost 4 YEARS! My skills were outdated (working on legacy project for long time) blah blah blah...for all my bitching about my NPD H and sexless marriage, my H hung in there with me for all that time. He encouraged me over and over to start a new career etc. But instead I worked up to 3 jobs at once. I hustled and ended up taking admin jobs and retail work...and found ways to update my skills. I found opportunities to apply those skills at about 1/3 my usual pay. I humbled myself for the long haul. I worked overnight at a department store as a stockperson. But I found ways to work on updating the computer skills because I knew in the long run that nothing else was going to pay like that and I had too much invested. Now I am back. To be honest, compared to the late 90's boom I am making about 20% less than when I was originally laid off. But two years ago I was making 60% less working THREE jobs. But - I get calls from headhunters CONSTANTLY now. Things have turned around. I don't know your fiance's skill set but my point is...I hope he did not just roll over and give up on the industry. It is true that two year old skills make you less marketable, but there are ways to update them that can be very low cost...
Author violet_lily Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 2) WHOA! Hold the phone! WHEN did he get laid off in computer industry and WHAT skills does he have? Is he aware that it has made a huge comeback??? He has low-level (as he tells me) sys admin skills and was laid off from a large well-known institution. For 6 months he went on unproductive interviews from headhunters solely looking to meet their quota and move bodies. He got fed up and decided to re-train into a vocation that (a) would not require 4 years of schooling (and 4 years of hand-to-mouth existence) and (b) could not be outsourced. We've invested about $25,000 into his new career, student loans and all. In hindsight I think it was a mistake, but we were scared and desperate for a chance to re-establish himself. Lately he's been wistfully thinking of exploring tech again. I will take your report from the field to heart, and see if he can direct his energies back to the Tech Help Wanted section.
whichwayisup Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 I have supported this man for almost three years. I have shopped thrift shops and clipped coupons and paid his tuition with the remainder. I would like to see a minimal return on investment, to be so crude and heartless. Love don't pay the rent. Because of this, please postpone your wedding. He is letting you pay off his tuition too? Do couples therapy and get your lives in sync before you even CONSIDER marrying him, otherwise you WILL be the only bread winner in your house. That is OK if he is willing to be a stay at home daddy and do all the housework while you're out making the dough. But, if he plans on sitting around doing nothing and letting you do it all, that's not cool at all. That's not a marriage, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
norajane Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Because of this, please postpone your wedding. He is letting you pay off his tuition too? Do couples therapy and get your lives in sync before you even CONSIDER marrying him, otherwise you WILL be the only bread winner in your house. That is OK if he is willing to be a stay at home daddy and do all the housework while you're out making the dough. But, if he plans on sitting around doing nothing and letting you do it all, that's not cool at all. That's not a marriage, it's a disaster waiting to happen. To be fair, he DOES have a job and he is working. He just isn't making what he used to.
michelangelo Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Would people be telling you to dump the person because he hasn't gotten it together for three years? I really doubt it. I am a veteran of both the tech boom and the the tech wreck. The last SEVEN years have been quite ugly a time for computer professionals. The impact of outsourcing is not trivial. combine that with industry consolidation and the lack of booming startups makes for a daunting set of career choices for anyone over the age of 35 in this industry. That said, it has improves somewhat this year. I've been employed by eight companies since 2001. I even had to be away from my family for 18 months to get a job 400 miles away since nobody was hiring. and I'm talking California here. Being discouraged, depressed, and wanting to hole up at home while someone else carries the load in an attractive trap. I have no idea what schooling costs $25K only to net a salary one fourth the old one. May be a mistake, i agree. So, dust off the resume, get some counseling, put on a new shirt and see a headhunter. Help your guy get back in the game. He needs you. if you were down, even three years down, would you want your guy to abandon you? He may need a kick in the pants, but is he really a lazy man? I don't think so.
4whatItsWorth Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 "...When I ask him to contribute just $200 per month towards the rent, he gets uncomfortable and says he can't afford it..." "I worked hard to get far in my career, but sometimes I wonder if I should get another partner whose money level is a little closer to my own." First of all, I find it kind of weird he pays none of the bills and refuses to give you $200. What is he using his earned money for then if you buy all food and pay all bills? Such behaviour would make me see red as well. However, your statement about getting someone else just shows how deep this issue is for you - to even consider that. I can understand you, I would never be happy supporting another man because I feel it should be 50-50 - especially if he refuses to contribute a thing with the money that he actually DOES earn. I agree you should not marry this man until the money issue is resolved. Marriage is for better and worse, but "worse" 24/7 won't make a happy marriage if you'll always feel you're supporting him as if he were your child and not your equal. In the long run, I do not think it will last unless he gets a better job or at least start paying you some to contribute to costs. Has he said he will pay back what you paid in tuition fees or not? There are so many "buts" in this I think you should think twice before paying for your own wedding - you might be paying for everything else for the rest of your life.
Author violet_lily Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 First of all, I find it kind of weird he pays none of the bills and refuses to give you $200. What is he using his earned money for then if you buy all food and pay all bills? Such behaviour would make me see red as well. He's been paying down credit cards, his car insurance for the two cars he owns, and his cell phone bill. He occasionally picks up the tab when we go out to eat. I really don't pester him about money because as you see, it is a testy issue with me. I have told him that it feels like a child-parent relationship. I was at a point where it was hurting me every day, even making me cry at work thinking about it, and I had to say something. Thanks everyone for your input. I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, and to be honest, I'm scared of re-entering the dating scene after being attached so long.
4whatItsWorth Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 He's been paying down credit cards, his car insurance for the two cars he owns, and his cell phone bill. I have told him that it feels like a child-parent relationship. I'm scared of re-entering the dating scene after being attached so long. If I would have been in the same situation, I would have wondered how he can prioritize those things (like included the cable you said he paid for) when he should prioritize home. If it were not for you - he would not be able to have ANY of those things because he would have to choose to pay for rent and food as first priority. I can understand the view from people who have been in your fiance's situation, but I still would never as a person myself be alright with taking financial advantage of anything. It'd take the bus, train and make priorities. I feel for you, it must not be easy to love someone but feel like all you do is give and give with no hope of ever getting "some back". Perhaps you should consider telling him that if that is the way he wants to live he should live it alone? Without your support, I doubt for a second he'd be able to tell the landlord "No, I can't afford $200 a month for rent. I need it for my car, mobile, cable...etc". It is always scary to leave something and to go somewhere new. But you have to decide if you'd rather try to find happiness elsewhere or stay in what could be eternal misery? If worst comes to worst, this situation could last forever - and you might even end up single supporting parent not only for this "child" but for the others (if you want children, that is.) Women should never settle for less than a man...
luvstarved Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Hmmm...yeah I feel perplexed like Michelangelo - I cannot imagine what job would pay 25% of average tech salary (and I don't think we are talking about high 6 figures with a "low level sys admin" job) but cost $25K to qualify for?!? Definitely sounds like a mistake. Like I said, I could have made a career shift too but chose to stick with it and invest my time in making the tech skills current. Over the course of our marriage, I have made GOBS more than my H - even when I was out of tech and working 3 jobs I brought more cash in every month - but he is in a profession that pays less and I don't bust him on THAT. Money ITSELF is not an issue. What would worry me in this situation is your fiance's JUDGMENT! If he switched gears figuring that he would be happier and grow into a reasonable salary, even if less than tech, and is putting everything he can into that, then I think he should be supported. However, if he was bitter about the tech bust and rolled over after 6 months of disappointment and bailed on the basis of not wanting to take more disappointment so better to give up - and on top of that pay big bucks to go into a less rewarding career - then that sounds like a red flag to me. Also, it does sound like he is taking you for granted if he can pay the cable bill and rack up credit card debt, but not help pay for the essentials. I think I would deliver some form of ultimatum...if you can't pay $200 for rent, what CAN you pay? If you are giving up your lifestyle to support him through his tough time, then it seems that he should be working harder to appreciate that in SOME manner. If he argues that it is unfair of you to make it about money, I'd argue that it isn't about money. It is about fairness. I have always paid a higher proportion of the bills because I had more money. But I have never paid 100%. Fairness isn't 50-50 dollarwise. It is 50-50 EFFORT wise. I think if you consider the problem from that angle, you'll have your answer.
love4ever Posted April 27, 2007 Posted April 27, 2007 He's been paying down credit cards, his car insurance for the two cars he owns, and his cell phone bill. He occasionally picks up the tab when we go out to eat. I really don't pester him about money because as you see, it is a testy issue with me. He just lost his job but still feels the need to keep his "two" cars??? If he really wanted to help out he would have sold one of those cars to save on insurance he obviously can barely afford at this point. And..(I'm not sure if he has a current job at this point) he could have a job while going to school. I think he's being a little selfish and I don't blame you for being wary.
Topper Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 I have to say that The two of you need to get some counseling before you get married. Money is the number one reason people get divorced. The two of you need to sit down and go over all your expenses. and Income. Make a plan and stick to that plan. The two of you need to make that plan together. You can't dictate to him just because you have more income! It has only been the last few years that woman have not relied wholly on men to support them. Woman wanted to brake that economic barrier and they are doing so. Your not whining that he isn't working or doing something. Your whining because he is not making enough money. You want a return on your investment. Having a good loving man in your life isn't a return on that investment? Your involved in a relationship if you want a return on your investment maybe you should move on forget a relationship! Invest in the stock market. You can sit alone at night be comforted by the Wall Street journal.
Author violet_lily Posted May 1, 2007 Author Posted May 1, 2007 Invest in the stock market. You can sit alone at night be comforted by the Wall Street journal. Ha, too true. But I think the girls are with me on this. Money=comfort, after all. At the very least it's a buffer from life's greatest stresses.
Trialbyfire Posted May 1, 2007 Posted May 1, 2007 He just lost his job but still feels the need to keep his "two" cars??? If he really wanted to help out he would have sold one of those cars to save on insurance he obviously can barely afford at this point. And..(I'm not sure if he has a current job at this point) he could have a job while going to school. I think he's being a little selfish and I don't blame you for being wary. I was just going to post something about that too. He doesn't need two cars if he can't uphold his portion of the income. Time to sell one to help supplement.
sunshinegirl Posted May 1, 2007 Posted May 1, 2007 Word on the two cars thing. Why does he need TWO CARS?!?! If he's got debt, he obviously needs to pay that down. But he seems to be hanging on to luxuries when you are struggling to pay for basics. If I were in your shoes, I would say bye bye, car #2 and adios, cable! How much would he save every month if he sold a car and got rid of cable? Have you ever asked him to cut back on the luxuries?
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