patientguy Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 I'm looking for some advice, preferrably from people with some experience with this, on how I can gain an answer from my OW, and if the answer doesn't involve a real chance for a relationship with me then how I might gain closure?? For the past five months I have been struggling to find an answer to these questions. Its hard to pinpoint anything lately, but I think the problem obviously stems from both myself and my MW not wanting the relationship to end in our heart, despite the unhealthy situation it is causing us both. I hold out mostly because I am waiting for her to decide for herself how she feels and what she wants to do. I don't want to pressure her into a decision, but lately I've found it increasingly difficult and I have expressed this to her. Rationally, I don't expect her to chose to leave her spouse for me, but I can't just let go, because I need to know what she wants. It will hurt if she firmly says she has chosen to stay with her spouse, but I think I can at least live with that if I know its sincere. So far, the best she has been able to muster is that she doesn't know what she wants. That she's not sure if she can initiate a divorce. She's also said that she "thinks" she loves two people. I'm not sure if the think applies to me or her husband. She doesn't act happy with her marriage from what I can tell. She has only been married for 8 months and we have been attached for 7 of those months. There are other serious and complicated factors in the mix too, such as I'm legally separated, I have a child with my x, we work together, and she is almost 10 years younger than me, but I'd prefer you at least focus on my questions about the relationship first, because I think I have to deal with that first. However, I think I should at least mention those things to give you a better idea of the situation. As far as the background, the first couple months with her were wonderful. We had a semi-calling off of things because we had our...D-day I guess you call it. Her husband is aware of the fact that she has emotional ties to me, but doesn't understand the extent.
Tomcat33 Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Dear Patientguy The answer is in your name. Patience is your best friend right now. I fully understand what you are feeling, and believe me it's not easy, I know. Regardless of your situation aside from your rel. with this MW the best you can do is put it all out in the open with your MW, let her know what you want and what you expect. Keeping these feelings to yourself will only eat away at you. Once you have explained to her that this situation can not go on, that it's harmful and counter productive (and that's what I gather from what appears to be your concern) the only real thing that you can do to gain some prespective and to start your own healing is to back right off and let her decide what she wants. What I would do is give her some space to decide what she wants, to allow her to feel what she is feeling and to figure out her feelings on her own. As far as you are concerned, you can give yourself a timeline, set a timeline in weeks or months as to how long you will wait for her to decide, if at that point she is still not sure of what she wants then I'm afraid the only two options you have are either to continue in the affair or to walk away for good. As for the closure, often times we seek closure from the person who is the main protagonist or creator of the problem itself, and we will not get the answers from them. Therefore you have to find your own closure. By giving her the space she needs and the space you need to gain some prespective you allow both of you to see what you really want. At first it is very hard and everything will play in your head and you will want her back with desperation, but learn to decipher those unhealthy feelings from healthy ones. Once you get over that hump you start your own closure, you will think with a healthy mind and not from a point of need. Right now your need to be with her supercedes the negative aspects that are bringing you down but if you manage to quiet those needs on your own you will no longer rely on her for the closure you need. In the best case scenario she will learn that if she wants to be with you and really does love you she will have to do what it takes to be with you. In the worst case scenario (for you... and that's even debateable) she will realise the love she has for her H is stronger and you will be able to move on and stop wasting your time with someone who really isn't going to be yours anyway. In order to succeed you must go NC. You need to stay strong and focus and trust that if it's meant to be she will come for you, but if it's not then you will be better off for not making it easy for her to drag this on. In order to succed you must be convinced that right now the bad outweighs the good. Only then will you have the strength to obtain the closure that you need. :-) 1
whichwayisup Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Do a search on ratingsguy. Read ALL his threads and maybe you'll have some better insight on what to do now. Even if she does leave her H, she is going to need time on her own before jumping into a relationship with you. (Read ratingsguys' thread!)
Jinxx Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Ok -- she has only been married for eight months and you've been attached to her for seven. What is the history they share prior to the marriage? The longer you stay attached to you OW the longer it will be to break off. The pain is unbearable. But if you are patient (as per your screen name) then you just might have a chance at this. It still doesn't make it any easier though, does it?!
Author patientguy Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 I appreciate the great advice you gave Tomcat33. Thanks whichwayisup, I will search those old posts you mentioned. Thanks Jinxx...to answer your question about her history with her H, she met him as a freshman in college and had known him for about 4 years in a long distance relationship prior to marriage. She married almost right after she graduated from college. I met her briefly before she got married, but it wasn't until "the week after" her honeymoon that we began being friends. A month or two after that we were FAR beyond the friendship line. I think the biggest bond she has with her husband is that they were part of the same friendship ring in school. Now that that aspect is gone I think she is having doubts. Well, I know she is having doubts. It seems to me that she trys her best to find other things to do, at work, visiting friends, visiting family, to not have to be alone with him. At the same time, I think her bond with him is strong from a friendship point of view. That is a huge part of a relationship, but I really don't think her relationship with him goes much beyond that.
Author patientguy Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 I read the posts from ratingguy. There are some similarities, but I can't entirely relate to his situation. Ultimately though, it may end up being a similar end result though. I guess the difference to me seems to be in his OW and mine. Rantingsguy and myself are about the same age, but my OW is only 22. His is 46 and with kids. My OW's biggest issue is not with our relationship, but with the word divorce and how that will make her look to her family and friends. She has a strong will of her own, but has issues with not wanting to let people down. A 46 year old woman, my guess, probably isn't so concerned about that. I confronted my OW in a serious manner about this yesterday and asked her to meet with me and speak about this. We aren't in a state of NC, because we work together, but she said she wants to, and in a way initiated that reponse from me, but doesn't know if it will be any different than our past talks. At the same time, she said she is scared of losing me and what NC would mean to her life. I am hoping the our talk will differ. I hope to really try and understand what she wants so I can make a decision to continue being patient or to try and move past this. Do you, or anybody else, have any advice about how I should go about this talk?
Jinxx Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Thanks Jinxx...to answer your question about her history with her H, she met him as a freshman in college and had known him for about 4 years in a long distance relationship prior to marriage. She married almost right after she graduated from college. I met her briefly before she got married, but it wasn't until "the week after" her honeymoon that we began being friends. A month or two after that we were FAR beyond the friendship line. I think the biggest bond she has with her husband is that they were part of the same friendship ring in school. Now that that aspect is gone I think she is having doubts. Well, I know she is having doubts. It seems to me that she trys her best to find other things to do, at work, visiting friends, visiting family, to not have to be alone with him. At the same time, I think her bond with him is strong from a friendship point of view. That is a huge part of a relationship, but I really don't think her relationship with him goes much beyond that. It appears she feels safe in her "comfort zone" as friends with her husband. Why rock the boat -- they share family, friends, and their marriage isn't even a year old. If you are willing to wait there could be a chance for you. She just isn't ready to take that risk. Long story short -- Husband number one whom I've known forever (childhood) had a brief marriage before we got together, married and children, etc. We did not start out as an affair but when we bumped into each other that was all it took for him to realize he was in a dead-end relationship with his marriage. they were married just after a year and had one child together. So it is possible that you could have a chance at this. It just depends on how long you are willing to wait. Now husband number two was different. I didn't feel the physical connection (never did) someone should feel but he is a good man. When I "strayed" with XMM, all the chemistry and emotional feelings I felt for this man was similar to husband number one. The difference is that he has been married for twenty plus years and will not leave his marriage. I knew that going in and accepted it for what it was. I am now separated but have been talking alot lately to husband number two about maybe reconcilling but not without lots of counselling. I'm at a point now in life that I'm not ready to give up everything I've worked so hard for so just might give it another go with. Honestly I can't see the marriage lasting with your OW and her husband. Continue to post and share. It is harder for us then for them. You just gotta ask yourself is she worth the wait when she does leave the marriage. Oh..... and they do leave if they want and love you bad enough. Husband number one cheated on me and left for his OW. They are now married. So it does work out for some people.
Author patientguy Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 As much as a part of me doesn't like it, I know I could wait for her a long time, but only if I believed there was a realistic chance. You're probably right it is harder for us because despite who we are or what we do the ball is in their court. They have the....power to make the decision of who to pass the ball to. The only choice we have is how long we are willing to wait for them to pass the ball {I'm watching the Dallas Mavericks/Golden State Warriors game}. I'm legally separated by the way. I had been thinking of getting a divorce for awhile, but when I met her it was obvious that I couldn't live a lie anymore. There are so many things that hold a marriage together other than your will to be with the person or love for them. The choice to leave is easy when you realize that no amount of family or peer pressure means as much as being honest with yourself. I would've stayed with my wife if I thought I could live with that and if I thought it could improve. For awhile tried and was ok with pretending things were fine, but at some point I realized that my own life was more important than everyone elses expectations. I see this happening with my OW, but I don't know if she's ready. When we started I told her I didn't want to rock her boat, but she opened her arms to me anyway. I have no idea what the future holds. I'll try to keep an open mind "for now".
Tomcat33 Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 I read the posts from ratingguy. There are some similarities, but I can't entirely relate to his situation. Ultimately though, it may end up being a similar end result though. I guess the difference to me seems to be in his OW and mine. Rantingsguy and myself are about the same age, but my OW is only 22. His is 46 and with kids. My OW's biggest issue is not with our relationship, but with the word divorce and how that will make her look to her family and friends. She has a strong will of her own, but has issues with not wanting to let people down. A 46 year old woman, my guess, probably isn't so concerned about that. I confronted my OW in a serious manner about this yesterday and asked her to meet with me and speak about this. We aren't in a state of NC, because we work together, but she said she wants to, and in a way initiated that reponse from me, but doesn't know if it will be any different than our past talks. At the same time, she said she is scared of losing me and what NC would mean to her life. I am hoping the our talk will differ. I hope to really try and understand what she wants so I can make a decision to continue being patient or to try and move past this. Do you, or anybody else, have any advice about how I should go about this talk? Oh you'd be surpirsed how many people at WHATEVER age cannot bring themselves to even say the D word let alone entertain the idea of having it. At frist my exMM was like that he could not even bring himself to say the word divorce, for him it was not so much "What will everyone else think"it was "what a failure I have become" He and his wife are almost double the age of what your OW is, and his W when he finally presented the idea of D to her, was also very concerned with that her friends would think. A lot of people live for the status quo neglecting their own happiness, neglecting the control that WE ALL have to live a life that is not also right but is fulfilling to us. You see when we marry we we also give in to the idea of what is expected of us when we "swear into the club" so to let down the rules of the club is to let down all the members. Marriage is an institution no matter how you slice it, it's not just about me and my H/W its about'me my H/W and the world. I would caution you on keeping too much of an open mind, since if you open it too much you might risk having your brain fall out. ;-) In all seriousness do set a goal for yourself, yes love is worth sacrificing for but is it worth sacrficing the rest of your days? No one can answer what that time frame will be and no matter how much advice you gain from others, I believe that we all have our own boilling point. Our trigger or catalyst if you will. You will know when you hit that point because it will all make sense, no it won't be easy and no it won't exempt you from the pain but you will have the will power to do what's right for you. because without will power all the advice in the world will not help you. You know, it's a journey and we all go through it, the scenery might be different for everyone but we all have in common that our journeys have a begining, middle and end. Where do you think you are? Speaking from experience to answer your last part about how to confront "the talk" no amount of talking will help you understand what is REALLY going on. What you can achieve from a talk is to ring home to your OW that, yes you love her, yes you will wait for her to figure things out, but your life will not stop. Nor will you continue to make it easy for her to get the best of you while she gets the best of her H (what ever that may be that she is getting from him) (maybe don't say that to her like that find a better way to say it) Just let her know that as much as you love her and want to be with her, you need to move on. If she asks what that means simply explain to her that what you are doing is unhealthy and it needs to stop because it is causing you more pain than pleasure. And in that time she should be able to figure out what she wants, and so will you. If by the end of your timeframe (by the way I would keep the timeframe to yourself) she has not contacted you with any advancement on her decision then the answer is as clear as water. Unfortunately, in these types of situations talk is cheap.
Author patientguy Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 I would caution you on keeping too much of an open mind, since if you open it too much you might risk having your brain fall out. ;-) -- I laughed pretty hard at that In all seriousness do set a goal for yourself, yes love is worth sacrificing for but is it worth sacrficing the rest of your days? -- of course not You know, it's a journey and we all go through it, the scenery might be different for everyone but we all have in common that our journeys have a begining, middle and end. Where do you think you are? -- ?? Good Question ?? No answer. Feels like the end when I'm not with her:o Feels like the beginning when I'm with her:love: Speaking from experience to answer your last part about how to confront "the talk" no amount of talking will help you understand what is REALLY going on. What you can achieve from a talk is to ring home to your OW that, yes you love her, yes you will wait for her to figure things out, but your life will not stop. Nor will you continue to make it easy for her to get the best of you while she gets the best of her H (what ever that may be that she is getting from him) (maybe don't say that to her like that find a better way to say it) Just let her know that as much as you love her and want to be with her, you need to move on. If she asks what that means simply explain to her that what you are doing is unhealthy and it needs to stop because it is causing you more pain than pleasure. And in that time she should be able to figure out what she wants, and so will you. If by the end of your timeframe (by the way I would keep the timeframe to yourself) she has not contacted you with any advancement on her decision then the answer is as clear as water. Unfortunately, in these types of situations talk is cheap. -- thanks
Tomcat33 Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 Feels like the end when I'm not with her:o Feels like the beginning when I'm with her Beautiful answer it floored me. So perfect.... I know exactly how you feel. In the middle is where you find the answers, the boilling point, and the answer to which direction you want to go, backwards or forward.
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