Author csj07 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Posted April 23, 2007 Why are you still in this marriage? He's already opted out. Don't stoop to his level by cheating yourself, to meet your needs. Walk away if only to make him understand that you aren't his doormat. Be prepared though that he may hold you to your word and consider the marriage severed. You are not responsible and cannot control 100% of the relationship. It's easier said than done, I still love him and want to believe that he will change. He can be very loving and persuasive at home, it's only in public that he lets me down. I do believe he still loves me but just can't let go of those friendships. I know he's afraid that I'll leave him and I believe that isn't what he wants. I admit I let him get away with murder in the past, like standing by and waiting patiently while he chats to his female friends, and feeling hurt and humiliated at the same time. However, that will never happen again, in the past I was too well-behaved to just leave and show him that he was being inconsiderate to me.
Trialbyfire Posted April 23, 2007 Posted April 23, 2007 It's easier said than done, I still love him and want to believe that he will change. He can be very loving and persuasive at home, it's only in public that he lets me down. I do believe he still loves me but just can't let go of those friendships. I know he's afraid that I'll leave him and I believe that isn't what he wants. I admit I let him get away with murder in the past, like standing by and waiting patiently while he chats to his female friends, and feeling hurt and humilated at the same time. However, that will never happen again, in the past I was too well-behaved to just leave and show him that he was being inconsiderate to me. You can't force someone to change. They have to want to change for themselves. Control what you can, which is you. He's responsible for his own happiness and from the looks of it, plans to continue doing just that. I'm not going to say if this is the right way or the wrong way to handle it by leaving mid-conversation. I'm not even certain it will have the effect you want besides him shrugging and continuing to chat up his newfound friends.
Author csj07 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Posted April 23, 2007 Well, it seems the choice has to be yours. Can you and ARE you willing to stay in your marriage with a man who seems to put you last? A husband who isn't attentive to your needs, doesn't respect you nor cares what you think or what you feel. How long can you survive in a marriage like that? It will KILL who you are, let alone make you eventually HATE him. Maybe you need to shake things up - But be prepared to follow through - Meaning, tell him that you're very unhappy and disappointed in his non-efforts to save the marriage, that maybe it would be best to end it. Maybe he needs to actually SEE and experience some consquences of his past choices and recent actions. See how life will be without you in it. What I perhaps didn't make clear is that at home he behaves very differently towards me, there he's loving and attentive and helps with the cooking , makes me tea at times and so on. It's in public that he resorts to his thoughtless and inappropriate behaviour. He is a loving person and tells me he likes all people and that's why he's friendlly to other women. Of course, he can always explain everything away, not that I'm easily convinced anymore and neither do I allow him to treat me as he wants to. I have told him that I'm seriously cosnidering leaving him and I can see that he's afraid that I mean it. I have no intention of taking his bad behaviour any more, I've even told him that I/'m going to leave our church and join another one as I don't want to attend with him anymore. This made him very upset, so slowly but surely , I think he's getting the meassage or so I hope! Otherwise I do intend carrying through my threats even though I still love him and don't really want a divorece.
Author csj07 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Posted April 23, 2007 You can't force someone to change. They have to want to change for themselves. Control what you can, which is you. He's responsible for his own happiness and from the looks of it, plans to continue doing just that. I'm not going to say if this is the right way or the wrong way to handle it by leaving mid-conversation. I'm not even certain it will have the effect you want besides him shrugging and continuing to chat up his newfound friends. I agree with you. I'm not certain that he really wants to change, but I have started to change,by finding my own inner strength, by becoming less dependent on him , by working on my career, by finding things to look forward to. The point I want to make is, I'm not going to hang around while he's having a good time, I'll go my own way and if he gets the message he gets it -if not I still have myself and my children, my family and my friends and my belief in God.
Trialbyfire Posted April 23, 2007 Posted April 23, 2007 I agree with you. I'm not certain that he really wants to change, but I have started to change,by finding my own inner strength, by becoming less dependent on him , by working on my career, by finding things to look forward to. The point I want to make is, I'm not going to hang around while he's having a good time, I'll go my own way and if he gets the message he gets it -if not I still have myself and my children, my family and my friends and my belief in God. Good. Get strong if only for own well-being. A partner in a relationship is just that, someone to improve our lives, not someone who takes more and gives grudgingly, if at all. At the same time, it's up to us to be able to stand independently, without need for the other, but with love and caring for the other. Good luck csj07. Keep working on becoming yourself again. You owe it to you.
Author csj07 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Posted April 23, 2007 Good. Get strong if only for own well-being. A partner in a relationship is just that, someone to improve our lives, not someone who takes more and gives grudgingly, if at all. At the same time, it's up to us to be able to stand independently, without need for the other, but with love and caring for the other. Good luck csj07. Keep working on becoming yourself again. You owe it to you. Thanks for your concern. I've always been a nurturer who gave more than she received. It's been quite difficult for me to learn to assert myself, especially being married to a man who has a strong will and likes getting his own way. I know I owe it to myself to remain strong otherwise my whole being will be swallowed up . Thanks goodness, I have realised that and I am on the way to becoming whole again.
JustBreathe Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 Instead of shrinking away from the harem girls and the Maharajah, have you tried behaving like they are talking to you as well? Who cares if they come over and only want to talk to him. You go ahead and chime in like they're talking to you also. Don't let him go alone when you know the ladies are going to be around as that would suit his purposes entirely. Be ever-present and a general pain in the neck. If nothing else, it will annoy them to pieces and you won't have to be the only person mad and disrespected in this scenario. Maybe they will even get the hint, catch a broomstick and fly outta your life.
Author csj07 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
Author csj07 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 Instead of shrinking away from the harem girls and the Maharajah, have you tried behaving like they are talking to you as well? Who cares if they come over and only want to talk to him. You go ahead and chime in like they're talking to you also. Don't let him go alone when you know the ladies are going to be around as that would suit his purposes entirely. Be ever-present and a general pain in the neck. If nothing else, it will annoy them to pieces and you won't have to be the only person mad and disrespected in this scenario. Maybe they will even get the hint, catch a broomstick and fly outta your life. What you say sounds logical, but in my case, I can honestly say, I'm tired of being a bystander and trying to join in the conversation. I'm also tired of being used to make his conversations more respectable by being in the. In future, he can talk to them alone as I've told him I refuse to accompany him to church or town if he's going to stop and talk to all his female friends with whom I have nothing in common. I find this whole situation ridiculous and I've told him that I think he's addicted to the attention he gets from other women and that I won't be part of his sick set-up any more. I can see that that got to him as he's been trying to be nice to me in the last day or so, but can't look me in the eyes. I think the arrow hit the target and now it's up to him to decide if he's going to get a grip on himself or is he going to continue with this childish behaviour of his.
Road Rage Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 Stand up for yourself and tell him to quit the bullsh*t or you walk out the door and leave his sorry a$$. Some times a little ghetto will work for WASPs too. A challange from you will make him see you differently. He is an egoist hiding behind his "Christian duties":rolleyes: There are a lot of aging gezers out there who are trying to still be some sort of studs. His comments about ending the marriage is probably a bluff to get you to put up with his shyt. That is why you really have NO choice. But maybe you are starting to get through to him. But, you don`t want him to be only changing outwardly. And that is probably all you are dealing with now. You walk out the door and his world will crash much more than yours. I can guarantee that. There is no pie in the sky or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow out there for him. Sadly, he has to actually feel that feeling of being on the outside for once in 40 plus years before he will realize he is not a kid anymore.
Sheba Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 I don't think it is easy at all to "interject" oneself into these sorts of discussions. When my husband is engaged in one of his "friendly chats" I immediately feel rejected and anxious. Or angry. If I feel rejected, I don't want to risk MORE rejection by trying to insert myself into a private conversation. If I am feeling angry, I don't trust myself to be civil enough and worry that I will embarrass myself. I think the advice to just get involved in your husband's relationships is innocently suggested by people who just don't understand. Those people should try to imagine seeing a husband and wife with their heads together, talking. Would you interrupt? I doubt it. You would feel their conversation was private and would be respectful of that. This is the way I feel when my husband is involved in one of his flirtations. I suspect this is the way cjs07 feels as well. I don't think, csj07, that the solution is for you to duck out of all social engagements. I think that your husband might go merrily along with his flirtations while you stew at home with your resentments. He might tell people you are not well, or are busy, so that he doesn't suffer any social consequence for your absence. In the mean time, your imagination will work overtime - or mine would. I would imagine that free of my presence my husband would develop even more intimate friendships with these women. I would be even more anxious and/or angry. Not that I have the answer, of course. I am in a similar situation.
Author csj07 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 Stand up for yourself and tell him to quit the bullsh*t or you walk out the door and leave his sorry a$$. Some times a little ghetto will work for WASPs too. A challange from you will make him see you differently. He is an egoist hiding behind his "Christian duties":rolleyes: There are a lot of aging gezers out there who are trying to still be some sort of studs. His comments about ending the marriage is probably a bluff to get you to put up with his shyt. I think he meant it would harm our marriage if I don't go to church with him any more, but he still doesn't understnad how much damage he's doing to it already. That is why you really have NO choice. But maybe you are starting to get through to him. But, you don`t want him to be only changing outwardly. And that is probably all you are dealing with now. You walk out the door and his world will crash much more than yours. I can guarantee that. There is no pie in the sky or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow out there for him. Sadly, he has to actually feel that feeling of being on the outside for once in 40 plus years before he will realize he is not a kid anymore. I think he feels so flattered by their attention that he thinks he won't be alone for long.
Author csj07 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 I don't think it is easy at all to "interject" oneself into these sorts of discussions. When my husband is engaged in one of his "friendly chats" I immediately feel rejected and anxious. Or angry. If I feel rejected, I don't want to risk MORE rejection by trying to insert myself into a private conversation. If I am feeling angry, I don't trust myself to be civil enough and worry that I will embarrass myself. You are saying exactly how I feel, one has to be very thick-skinned to push in between him and th elady he's talking to. It remains a lose-lose situation, no matter what you do it will all reflect badly on you. I think the advice to just get involved in your husband's relationships is innocently suggested by people who just don't understand. Those people should try to imagine seeing a husband and wife with their heads together, talking. Would you interrupt? I doubt it. You would feel their conversation was private and would be respectful of that. This is the way I feel when my husband is involved in one of his flirtations. I suspect this is the way cjs07 feels as well. Yes, I do feel that way. I appreciate the help that other people offer, but as you say it's not easy to deal with this situation. I don't think, csj07, that the solution is for you to duck out of all social engagements. I think that your husband might go merrily along with his flirtations while you stew at home with your resentments. He might tell people you are not well, or are busy, so that he doesn't suffer any social consequence for your absence. In the mean time, your imagination will work overtime - or mine would. I would imagine that free of my presence my husband would develop even more intimate friendships with these women. I would be even more anxious and/or angry. Not that I have the answer, of course. I am in a similar situation. No doubt it could happen that he gets even closer to those women, but when I told my husband I wasn't going to the cell group any longer, but he was free to go , he also stopped going. I knew that if he continued going, it could lead to a very unhealthy situations, but I wanted to test him. We've stopped going to church dinners as his friends always made sure we sat at their table and I told him I just wasn't going any more. What I'm also sure of if he stops and talks to his female friends again, I'll just walk on and he can catch up with me later on , but he'll know I'm not a powerless onlooker any more.
Author csj07 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 I don't think it is easy at all to "interject" oneself into these sorts of discussions. When my husband is engaged in one of his "friendly chats" I immediately feel rejected and anxious. Or angry. If I feel rejected, I don't want to risk MORE rejection by trying to insert myself into a private conversation. If I am feeling angry, I don't trust myself to be civil enough and worry that I will embarrass myself. You are saying exactly how I feel, one has to be very thick-skinned to push in between him and the lady he's talking to. It remains a lose-lose situation, no matter what you do it will all reflect badly on you. I think the advice to just get involved in your husband's relationships is innocently suggested by people who just don't understand. Those people should try to imagine seeing a husband and wife with their heads together, talking. Would you interrupt? I doubt it. You would feel their conversation was private and would be respectful of that. This is the way I feel when my husband is involved in one of his flirtations. I suspect this is the way cjs07 feels as well. Yes, I do feel that way. I appreciate the help that other people offer, but as you say it's not easy to deal with this situation. I don't think, csj07, that the solution is for you to duck out of all social engagements. I think that your husband might go merrily along with his flirtations while you stew at home with your resentments. He might tell people you are not well, or are busy, so that he doesn't suffer any social consequence for your absence. In the mean time, your imagination will work overtime - or mine would. I would imagine that free of my presence my husband would develop even more intimate friendships with these women. I would be even more anxious and/or angry. Not that I have the answer, of course. I am in a similar situation. No doubt it could happen that he gets even closer to those women, but when I told my husband I wasn't going to the cell group any longer, but he was free to go , he also stopped going. I knew that if he continued going, it could lead to a very unhealthy situations, but I wanted to test him. We've stopped going to church dinners as his friends always made sure we sat at their table and I told him I just wasn't going any more. What I'm also sure of if he stops and talks to his female friends again, I'll just walk on and he can catch up with me later on , but he'll know I'm not a powerless onlooker any more.
Sheba Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Congratulations on finding a consequence that works, cjs07, and that allows you to maintain your dignity. It is a shame that you both have to miss out on these events, but perhaps your husband may come around in time - after all, he has only been behaving so poorly for 4 years of 41. I wish it were so easy for me. The woman my husband flirts with most consistenly works in our office. I can hardly refuse to go to work! Since I raised my concerns, I have noticed that he speaks to her less in my presence, but have caught him in a few tete a tetes, so I think he has simply become "sneakier" about his conversations. It is a very uncomfortable thing to have this going on at work. I often wonder if he continues to engage in this particular relationship because he cares little about my feelings or because he cares a great deal for her. I did watch him at an office party one night, as we sat in a group - he made many jokes and each time looked only at her for her approval, to see if she was laughing. Maybe he has a huge crush on her and simply can't help himself? It is enough to make me want to stay home from all office parties ....
Author csj07 Posted April 25, 2007 Author Posted April 25, 2007 Hi Sheba Thanks for being so supportive. Sorry to disillusion you, but the only place where those consequences work are in my mind and in my emotions. None have had a permanent effect on my husband, as he still thinks I should snap out of it and realise that nothing's going on between him and those women. I sometimes can't believe how blatantly he goes back on his word, after all we did decide that it was dangerous for a marrried man to converse alone with an unmarried woman, especially if he does this frequently with the same one. I think he just agrees to whatever I say, but never really means it, and in any case the attraction he feels for these ladies is too strong for him to worry about what I'll say or do. What I do know is taht I have to control the effect all this has on me, and at all costs I have to avoid getting upset, because if I do get upset and say something, then he becomes the holy martyr with this shrew of a wife. So , I'm keeping my distance, I'm friendly but more detached and in control. The bottom line is one can only change yourself and not someone else, so I won't allow his actions to hurt me any more or not so much (famous last words), and I do intend on isolating myself from him when he's busy socialising with his female friends, so that he won't get any reaction from me.
Author csj07 Posted April 25, 2007 Author Posted April 25, 2007 Hi Sheba Thanks for being so supportive. Sorry to disillusion you, but the only place where those consequences work are in my mind and in my emotions. None have had a permanent effect on my husband, as he still thinks I should snap out of it and realise that nothing's going on between him and those women. I sometimes can't believe how blatantly he goes back on his word, after all we did decide that it was dangerous for a marrried man to converse alone with an unmarried woman, especially if he does this frequently with the same one. I think he just agrees to whatever I say, but never really means it, and in any case the attraction he feels for these ladies is too strong for him to worry about what I'll say or do. What I do know is taht I have to control the effect all this has on me, and at all costs I have to avoid getting upset, because if I do get upset and say something, then he becomes the holy martyr with this shrew of a wife. So , I'm keeping my distance, I'm friendly but more detached and in control. The bottom line is one can only change yourself and not someone else, so I won't allow his actions to hurt me any more or not so much (famous last words), and I do intend on isolating myself from him when he's busy socialising with his female friends, so that he won't get any reaction from me.
JustBreathe Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 He's not taking what you say for real and it hurts. He is pooh-poohing what you say, not giving you credence, and that makes you feel devalued as a human being. It is a very basic need to feel like you are being listened to and respected by the person you love the most. He is not meeting your needs, he knows it, isn't willing to that extra yard you need to feel safe and comfortable in your relatoinship. He does what is necessary to keep you on the fence and that's all. I know this game as I have been played by my husband also. It makes you feel like old faithful Shep by the back door, the old shoe, the old dependable jalopy - jump start her and she will perform like she always has. The thing he knows will always be there for him regardless of how he behaves. That is only tolerable for so long. He is taking you for granted and you are FULL of that. Have you considered a separation? NOT to punish him or to help him see the light, but for yourself. To clear you mind. To help you to see what it is you need and whether he is even capable of giving it to you.
Carnebor Posted April 26, 2007 Posted April 26, 2007 csj07, I think your approach to your situation is appropriate. You've made the changes that are within your power to make. Unfortunately, I think your suffering may be as long as it is real. I suppose 41 years of marriage can produce a familiarity between you that has dulled your husband to how extraordinarily special your marriage is. You are calling it right. The dynamic that is created by his emotional attachment (if only in his mind) to these women clearly feeds into an esteem crisis on his part. I've been married for less than 41 years but know enough from ministry and my own strong marriage to make the following observation. If you continue to make choices that keep you mentally, spiritually, and, to some degree, emotionally strong, the person you become may attract his attention again. However, I sense you may already understand that should this not work out the way we'd like it to, for the better part of the 41 you've had 'the best' of him. Nothing remains for the others but 'the rest' of him. Be encouraged and keep making strong choices.
Author csj07 Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 He's not taking what you say for real and it hurts. He is pooh-poohing what you say, not giving you credence, and that makes you feel devalued as a human being. It is a very basic need to feel like you are being listened to and respected by the person you love the most. He is not meeting your needs, he knows it, isn't willing to that extra yard you need to feel safe and comfortable in your relatoinship. He does what is necessary to keep you on the fence and that's all. You hit the nail on the head, he's definitely devaluing me as a person. I think he just couldn't be bothered to put himself in my shoes, all he's concerned about is the so-called 'innocence' of his friendships. I know this game as I have been played by my husband also. It makes you feel like old faithful Shep by the back door, the old shoe, the old dependable jalopy - jump start her and she will perform like she always has. The thing he knows will always be there for him regardless of how he behaves. That is only tolerable for so long. He is taking you for granted and you are FULL of that. I'm definitely tired of the way he disregards my feelings and I'm through with talking to him, he's heard it all, so he can never say he I didn't tell him how I feel. Have you considered a separation? NOT to punish him or to help him see the light, but for yourself. To clear you mind. To help you to see what it is you need and whether he is even capable of giving it to you. In January, I planned to do just that, I booked accommodation at a resort for 18 days, but after the first week, he started calling me every day to hear when I was coming home. Eventually, I only stayed away for 13 days as it sounded as if he was really missing me. I've been offered an opportunity to do a fully funded doctorate; whereas I would have hesitated a few weeks ago, as I felt I didn't want to neglect me marriage, I now know that no matter how loving and attentive I may be towards my husband, nothing will change his mind about his attitude towards his marriage.
Author csj07 Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 He's not taking what you say for real and it hurts. He is pooh-poohing what you say, not giving you credence, and that makes you feel devalued as a human being. It is a very basic need to feel like you are being listened to and respected by the person you love the most. He is not meeting your needs, he knows it, isn't willing to that extra yard you need to feel safe and comfortable in your relatoinship. He does what is necessary to keep you on the fence and that's all. You hit the nail on the head, he's definitely devaluing me as a person. I think he just couldn't be bothered to put himself in my shoes, all he's concerned about is the so-called 'innocence' of his friendships. I know this game as I have been played by my husband also. It makes you feel like old faithful Shep by the back door, the old shoe, the old dependable jalopy - jump start her and she will perform like she always has. The thing he knows will always be there for him regardless of how he behaves. That is only tolerable for so long. He is taking you for granted and you are FULL of that. I'm definitely tired of the way he disregards my feelings and I'm through with talking to him, he's heard it all, so he can never say he I didn't tell him how I feel. Have you considered a separation? NOT to punish him or to help him see the light, but for yourself. To clear you mind. To help you to see what it is you need and whether he is even capable of giving it to you. In January, I planned to do just that, I booked accommodation at a resort for 18 days, but after the first week, he started calling me every day to hear when I was coming home. Eventually, I only stayed away for 13 days as it sounded as if he was really missing me. I've been offered an opportunity to do a fully funded doctorate; whereas I would have hesitated a few weeks ago, as I felt I didn't want to neglect me marriage, I now know that no matter how loving and attentive I may be towards my husband, nothing will change his mind about his attitude towards his marriage.
Author csj07 Posted April 26, 2007 Author Posted April 26, 2007 csj07, I think your approach to your situation is appropriate. You've made the changes that are within your power to make. Unfortunately, I think your suffering may be as long as it is real. I suppose 41 years of marriage can produce a familiarity between you that has dulled your husband to how extraordinarily special your marriage is. You are calling it right. The dynamic that is created by his emotional attachment (if only in his mind) to these women clearly feeds into an esteem crisis on his part. I don't think my husband realsies what he's doing and how much he's putting our marriage at risk. I've been married for less than 41 years but know enough from ministry and my own strong marriage to make the following observation. If you continue to make choices that keep you mentally, spiritually, and, to some degree, emotionally strong, the person you become may attract his attention again. Ironically enough, I know he's always been proud of the way I look at what I've achieved in my work as an acdemic. Perhaps it's that very realisation that drives him to seek affirmation from other women to make him feel better about himself too. As I mentioned in my other reply, I have received a wonderful offer to pursue my doctorate with all expenses paid. To me that's come at the right time in my life, as I need to find a new purpose in my life to make up for the void I'm experiencing. Like my work, which entails helping people with their dissertations and academic writing, in general, I feel that research will benefit many people especially from previously disadvantaged communities. Be encouraged and keep making strong choices. Thank you so much for the encouragement, it means a lot to me. However, I sense you may already understand that should this not work out the way we'd like it to, for the better part of the 41 you've had 'the best' of him. Nothing remains for the others but 'the rest' of him. I'm very realistic, I don't want to divorce him, but neither do I expect miracles; I know if I'm to be happy it will have to be in spite of what he does, and I can't depend on him to build up my self-esteem, that I'll have to do by myself.
Author csj07 Posted April 28, 2007 Author Posted April 28, 2007 My husband has just told me that he cannot promise that he'll never speak to those unmarried ladies again, even though he admits that his behaviour was inappropriate at that time. His excuse is that that happened in the past. He says it's my own fault that I can't see that there's nothing going on between him and those ladies. He's implying that it's my fault that our marriage is in a crisis, it's all becaues of my failure to accept that his friendliness towards those ladies is innocent. He even expects me to join him in a conversation with them, becase he says if I'm there how can it be wrong for him to talk to them. What he forgets is that I view his conversations now with them against the backdrop of his previous (probably present ) flirting with them. He also added thathe thinks th ebreakdown of our marriage is inevitable and I tend to agree with him. At the moment , however, it's not finacially viable for either of us to move out so I think we're just deferring this inevitable decision.
Sheba Posted April 28, 2007 Posted April 28, 2007 I am sorry things are so bad, csj. I think you should accept the opportunity to do your doctorate. Take control of your life. Do something worthwhile and for yourself. Your husband, my friend, is pathetic. It appears to me that he has such low self esteem that he would prefer the fawning of a group of women he barely knows to the love and devotion of his wife of 41 years. His choice is ridiculous. However, let him have it. You are obviously a decent and accomplished woman. You don't deserve to be disrespected. You have done everything conceivable to earn respect. I wish you well.
Author csj07 Posted April 28, 2007 Author Posted April 28, 2007 I don't think decency and accomplishment count with my husband. He knows what he wants and it's not me, or in any case not at my terms. I won't stop what seems to be inevitable and that's the breakdown of our marriage. What I can save is my self-respect and dignity and my own future. Thanks so much for caring, I think I'll be fine.
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