Tired of the same old story

[csj07]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman]How does one learn to trust your husband again, after he has been involved in a series of so-called 'inocent friendships' with four single (widowed) women, to the extent that he was always talking to them and going over to them while neglecting me.

 

What usually happens is that they come over to us or he goes to them alone and they start chatting, ignoring me completely, to such an extent that I feel invisible. This definitely isn't good for my self-image, and talking to him about this is no use because he always forgets what he promised and proceeds to behave in the same unthoughtful way again.

 

He also likes talking to other women in general (much more than to men) and although he protests that this is entirely innocent as well, he has admitted in a moment of weaksness that he thinks he does like women too much.

 

This state of affairs (pardon the pun!) has gone on for more than four years now, during which time he kept assuring me that there was nothing wrong with these friendships and that men could be friends with other women as long as no sex was involved.

 

He said he felt sympathy for them as they were lonely and felt he needed to reach out to them. This reaching out entailed him talking to them by himself, and even leaving me alone at church functions. I felt humiliated and neglected, also because he didn't feel that he needed to acknowledge me in public. He told me that I'd have to get used to it as he had no intention of breaking off those friendships.

 

However, only after I'd been to three different counsellors did he agree to stop being so friendly to them and going out of his way to be with them. But, unfortunately I didn't see a big difference straight away and still don't really see any difference as those women still keep on talking to him and still do keep coming over to us with the express intention of talking to him. Usually they hardly even speak to me. I can see that they like talking to him and don't even try to hide the fact that he's the main focus of their conversations.

 

He has (momentarily) admitted to me that he enjoys the admiration he gets from them and that's why I think it's so hard for him to forego their attention, even though I've always (for the past 41 years) been a loving and caring wife for him, it seems that that will never be enough for him.

 

He seems to need this other attention to boost his self-esteem and ego, no matter how much it hurts our marriage. I must add that this behaviour only started to manifest itself four and a half years ago, and I can honestly say, I was never the jealous type in all those years. So please don't tell me i"m just overly jealous, it has much more to do with insensitivity, vanity and thoughtlessness on his part.

 

 

How does one deal with this issue if he doesn't really want to change? I'm really tired of this same old story, but how does one get it to stop? I don't want to divorce my husband as I still love him, in spite of all this nonsense, but I really want him to change.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Reckless]

maybe (with the help of your councellor) you can both draw up some kind of "agreement" of what is and is not accpetable and try and both stick to it.

 

Usually, when this kind of thing happens there is something within the marriage that is lacking so you might need to agree to spend quality time together - no tv, not kids not radio..) talking and finding (or rediscovering) what you actually admire in each other. Maybe a once a week date of some kind.

 

Maybe, since he seems to get along with women you can agree that you BOTH spend time with his single female friends but that he makes a conscious effort to involve you in the conversation and of coure see if you can get him to agree that since it is 'dangerous' and asking for trouble for him to spend time alone with these women that he only visist them with you or someone else or if he won't agree to that to limit the time he spends with them to a couple of times a month (all the time working on you personal relationship together).

 

Men (and women) do need to be admired and looked up to and if bitterness from this situation is causing resentment to build then you will not be providing him with the vibes he need to thrive and he of course is not making you feel loved and appreciated. Try and communicate and get rid of the resentment by literally writing down and sticking to some kind of agreement because if you don't eventually he will act on some of the feeling that ARE there and you will be eaten away with resentment.

[whichwayisup]

only after I'd been to three different counsellors

 

Do you mean just you going to see a counsellor, or him with you? This is just strikes me as very odd if it was just you who went on your own. I mean, good for you that you went - But if he didn't go as well - That's just not right seeing as he has the "seeing a woman in distress (problems) and he has to try to be there for her and fix the problems" syndrome.

 

Start standing up to him more - And when those women are around and wanting to talk to your husband, INCLUDE yourself in the conversations. If they start ignorning you, and he disappears alone (or tries to) with the women, don't let him go.

 

Obviously your H has a big ego that needs to be fed and he likes the attention, the power, and knowing that they all look at him highly.

 

He has to go to marriage counselling with you.

 

I must add that this behaviour only started to manifest itself four and a half years ago

 

Can you pinpoint the exact time? What I mean by that is, did something happen to him? Did he lose a parent or a close friend to death? I'm just wondering if it's him getting older and a mid-life crisis (that's lasted too long) or did a serious crisis happen which pushed him over the edge?

 

Talk to him, tell him how it makes YOU feel when he runs off to save yet another woman from her troubles.....Let him know that it's killing your marriage and will continue to kill the marriage if he doesn't change his behaviour and start acting like a married man.

[LakesideDream]

It isn't clear from your post. Is you husband a Reverend or Pastor, possibly a Church Elder? Is it a part of his duties to comfort those suffering a loss?

 

41 years of marriage seems a long time to be bringing something like this up now. Please clarify.

[csj07]

Thanks for the reply. My husband's an elder and we also used to be in the same cell (Bible study) group as those women, but I stopped going because he would virtually ignore me at th emeetings, he would talk to them and even sit next to them at the teatable, even after I told him that I was feeling uncomfortable at the way he was treating them.

[csj07]

Do you mean just you going to see a counsellor, or him with you? This is just strikes me as very odd if it was just you who went on your own. I mean, good for you that you went - But if he didn't go as well - That's just not right seeing as he has the "seeing a woman in distress (problems) and he has to try to be there for her and fix the problems" syndrome.

 

He only went once with me and then he informed me that the problem doesn't lie with him but in my attitude towards his friendship with those women. He says I'm imagining all these problems and that it's all my own fault that I feel upset.

 

Start standing up to him more - And when those women are around and wanting to talk to your husband, INCLUDE yourself in the conversations. If they start ignorning you, and he disappears alone (or tries to) with the women, don't let him go.

 

That's easier said than done, even if I'm in the same company, they just have eyes and ears for each other.

 

Obviously your H has a big ego that needs to be fed and he likes the attention, the power, and knowing that they all look at him highly.

 

He has to go to marriage counselling with you.

 

 

 

Can you pinpoint the exact time? What I mean by that is, did something happen to him? Did he lose a parent or a close friend to death? I'm just wondering if it's him getting older and a mid-life crisis (that's lasted too long) or did a serious crisis happen which pushed him over the edge?

 

It occurred just after he had a series of setbacks with his company , that put a great deal of financial strain on us. I became the main breadwinner for a while, and even though I tried to make him feel better about himself, I was obviously not successful, otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to turn to other women for attention. At the moment his business is doing better, so he hsouldn't need that prop any more.

 

Talk to him, tell him how it makes YOU feel when he runs off to save yet another woman from her troubles.....Let him know that it's killing your marriage and will continue to kill the marriage if he doesn't change his behaviour and start acting like a married man.

 

He doesn't want to hear how I feel, neither does he want to discuss this topic as he feels the problem is all in my head.

[csj07]

maybe (with the help of your councellor) you can both draw up some kind of "agreement" of what is and is not accpetable and try and both stick to it.

 

I thought we had reached an agreement, but he doesn't stick to it, maybe he just doesn't have the will to do it. I've asked him to restrict his talking to those single women so that we can talk to married couples more, but that's just not happening.

 

Usually, when this kind of thing happens there is something within the marriage that is lacking so you might need to agree to spend quality time together - no tv, not kids not radio..) talking and finding (or rediscovering) what you actually admire in each other. Maybe a once a week date of some kind.

 

Even though I go out of my way to be with him, he still disappoints me when we go out by paying attention to other women.

 

Maybe, since he seems to get along with women you can agree that you BOTH spend time with his single female friends but that he makes a conscious effort to involve you in the conversation and of coure see if you can get him to agree that since it is 'dangerous' and asking for trouble for him to spend time alone with these women that he only visist them with you or someone else or if he won't agree to that to limit the time he spends with them to a couple of times a month (all the time working on you personal relationship together).

 

Frankly, I'm tired of asking him to include me in the conversation, It seems as if he's deliberately ignoring my wishes.

 

Men (and women) do need to be admired and looked up to and if bitterness from this situation is causing resentment to build then you will not be providing him with the vibes he need to thrive and he of course is not making you feel loved and appreciated. Try and communicate and get rid of the resentment by literally writing down and sticking to some kind of agreement because if you don't eventually he will act on some of the feeling that ARE there and you will be eaten away with resentment.

 

It's very difficult to talk to him about my feelings as he can't deal with any frank discussion, nad rather prefers to flee. He doesn't seem to understand how bad his behaviour makes me feel.

[2sunny]

maybe it would be more effective then to write him a letter that he can revert to instead of listening to you say it out loud.

 

possibly you could use a code word (or action such as clearing your throat) for him to stop when it makes you uncomfortable when in the presence of other women.

 

if he's not willing to discuss it - we need to find other ways for you to let him know how it makes you feel...

 

have you asked him how he would feel if the situation were reversed? i would like to know his response to that question....

[csj07]

I've tried writing down how iI feel, but he refuses to read what I've written, he says he knows what I've written.

 

If I give him a look he just ignores it and goes merrily on his way.

 

I know how he'd react, he has always been th ejealous one, he's usually very rude to whomever I'm with as he knows I'll be too embarrassed to continue with the conversation.

 

What I have told him is that I'm tired of always waiting for him to finish his conversation with some woman or other so that we can go home, in future, I won't go with him to church, so regularly, maybe it will push him over the edge, But I'm tired of pretending that everything's fine when it's not!

[whichwayisup]

He doesn't want to hear how I feel, neither does he want to discuss this topic as he feels the problem is all in my head.

 

Then you have a real problem on your hands. He is unwilling to see what he is doing wrong so he isn't about to change his ways.

 

This goes deeper than just the surface problems....There's something else going on here, whether it be he's unhappy in the marriage or he feels his needs aren't being met either (I know he isn't meeting your needs) and until you two really sit, talk and listen to eachother, nothing is going to get better.

 

SPEAK UP! If you don't, life for you will stay as it is. Don't be afraid to confront him.

[csj07]

Confronting him hasn't helped me at all. When I spoke to him about ignoring me while speaking to one of his widows, the last time , he said he's sick and tired of my jealousy and that he thinks we should end this marriage. What I understand now is that he feels frustrated if he can't talk to them so he'd rather end his marriage to be with them.

[Sheba]

Well, I would love to know what the solution is, because I have a husband who often acts in a similar fashion.

 

I have felt my husband is terribly needy of positive attention from women and the attention he gets from me is just not enough. I have tried to explain to him how I feel when he flirts or excludes me from conversations to focus his attention on the other woman, but he simply invalidates my remarks and feelings, and insists he is doing nothing wrong. He can't deal with my feelings at all because that would require that he change his behaviour, and why would he? His ego is being gratified, and he has no intention of giving up that good feeling.

 

I have a terribly hard time with the thought of interrupting my husband's tete a tetes, I guess because I fear a second, more blatant rejection. So, instead I stew and worry. Every social occasion is fraught with anxiety.

 

I don't have anything helpful to say, except that I know how you feel - the pain and embarrassment. And, I support you in your view that this is disrespectful of you and wrong.

 

I wouldn't blame it on the other women, however. It is not their problem, it is your husband's problem. He is the one who ought to care for you and make sure that you are included.

 

I wish you luck.

[Trialbyfire]

Confronting him hasn't helped me at all. When I spoke to him about ignoring me while speaking to one of his widows, the last time , he said he's sick and tired of my jealousy and that he thinks we should end this marriage. What I understand now is that he feels frustrated if he can't talk to them so he'd rather end his marriage to be with them.

If appears that he's already opted out of your marriage. You can't hope to fix your marriage without active participation on his side.

 

Are you a stay-at-home wife who takes care of all his needs?

[michelangelo]

As an elder in your church, does your husband see it as his obligation to provide comfort to these widowed women?

 

If so, does he provide this same level of comfort to widowers?

 

I'm not being flippant in asking. Because if he is providing that same level of attention to widowers then he may just be doing his religious duties.

 

Otherwise, he is just hitting on the ladies.

 

I think you ought to call him on it. He's not the first religious guy who confuses his selfish interests and uses his religious position to get his game on.

 

You don't have to take it.

 

As an elder, is there some group or person he is supposed to report to?

 

Possibly the pastor or minister?

 

I'd suggest talking to that person about your concerns.

[Guest]

Well, I would love to know what the solution is, because I have a husband who often acts in a similar fashion.

 

Thank you for sharing that with me, one feels so alone and very vulnerable. My husband is just as needy and as you say, he can never admit it because then he'd have to stop his flirtatious behaviour. I don't think they want to know how we feel either as they're just not interested in hearing about our pain as it could get in the way of their fun and adventure.

 

I have felt my husband is terribly needy of positive attention from women and the attention he gets from me is just not enough. I have tried to explain to him how I feel when he flirts or excludes me from conversations to focus his attention on the other woman, but he simply invalidates my remarks and feelings, and insists he is doing nothing wrong. He can't deal with my feelings at all because that would require that he change his behaviour, and why would he? His ego is being gratified, and he has no intention of giving up that good feeling.

 

 

 

I don't have anything helpful to say, except that I know how you feel - the pain and embarrassment. And, I support you in your view that this is disrespectful of you and wrong.

 

I wouldn't blame it on the other women, however. It is not their problem, it is your husband's problem. He is the one who ought to care for you and make sure that you are included.

 

I wish you luck.

 

Please write again, I feel we have so much in common, and it helps to share your burden with someone who understands as you all seem to do.

I have a terribly hard time with the thought of interrupting my husband's tete a tetes, I guess because I fear a second, more blatant rejection. So, instead I stew and worry. Every social occasion is fraught with anxiety.

 

As you say, they have no intention of giving it up. I feel exactly the way you do about breaking up the tete a tetes, and in any case, I feel it's humiliating to have to go up to him and grovel for my share of attention. I just don't want to be around any more when he's having all these friendly little talks as I intend finding another church as soon as possible. If he wants to take it further with those ladies, then so be it, I've had enough.

[csj07]

Well, I would love to know what the solution is, because I have a husband who often acts in a similar fashion.

 

I have felt my husband is terribly needy of positive attention from women and the attention he gets from me is just not enough. I have tried to explain to him how I feel when he flirts or excludes me from conversations to focus his attention on the other woman, but he simply invalidates my remarks and feelings, and insists he is doing nothing wrong. He can't deal with my feelings at all because that would require that he change his behaviour, and why would he? His ego is being gratified, and he has no intention of giving up that good feeling.

 

I have a terribly hard time with the thought of interrupting my husband's tete a tetes, I guess because I fear a second, more blatant rejection. So, instead I stew and worry. Every social occasion is fraught with anxiety.

 

I don't have anything helpful to say, except that I know how you feel - the pain and embarrassment. And, I support you in your view that this is disrespectful of you and wrong.

 

I wouldn't blame it on the other women, however. It is not their problem, it is your husband's problem. He is the one who ought to care for you and make sure that you are included.

 

I wish you luck.

Thank you for sharing that with me, one feels so alone and very vulnerable. My husband is just as needy and as you say, he can never admit it because then he'd have to stop his flirtatious behaviour. I don't think they want to know how we feel either as they're just not interested in hearing about our pain as it could get in the way of their fun and adventure.

 

I think their behaviour is utterly selfish and egotistical. My way of dealing with it in future will be to make sure I'm not around to witness his flirtatious behaviour and if that pushes him over the edge, well so be it.

 

It really helps to speak to someone who raelly understands whataone's going through. Hope to hear from you again.

[csj07]

As an elder in your church, does your husband see it as his obligation to provide comfort to these widowed women?

 

If so, does he provide this same level of comfort to widowers?

 

 

 

I'm not being flippant in asking. Because if he is providing that same level of attention to widowers then he may just be doing his religious duties.

 

Otherwise, he is just hitting on the ladies.

 

 

I think you ought to call him on it. He's not the first religious guy who confuses his selfish interests and uses his religious position to get his game on.

 

You don't have to take it.

 

As an elder, is there some group or person he is supposed to report to?

 

Possibly the pastor or minister?

 

I'd suggest talking to that person about your concerns.

No. he's definitely not providing the same level of comfort to widowers. When I pointed that out to him he admitted with a sheepish grin that of course he's more partial to taking care of the widows.

 

So he didn't even pretend that it's otherwise. I must hasten to add that some of these ladies don't mind being hit on and actually encourage his attentions quite actively by seeking him out whenever they can. I feel sad to thnk that all this is taking place in Our Lord's name, but that's how it is.

[csj07]

If appears that he's already opted out of your marriage. You can't hope to fix your marriage without active participation on his side.

 

Are you a stay-at-home wife who takes care of all his needs?

 

I also feel that he's opted out of the marriage unless I'm willing to go along with his behaviour and just keep quiet about it. No, I'm an academic at a tertiary institution with quite a busy but fulfilling life. Ironically enough, he actually takes good care of me, and even does a lot of the cooking as he works from home and is at home more than I am.

 

However, cooking for me doesn't make up for the emotional pain he has and is causing me even if he thinks it makes him a good husband.

[Trialbyfire]

I also feel that he's opted out of the marriage unless I'm willing to go along with his behaviour and just keep quiet about it. No, I'm an academic at a tertiary institution with quite a busy but fulfilling life. Ironically enough, he actually takes good care of me, and even does a lot of the cooking as he works from home and is at home more than I am.

 

However, cooking for me doesn't make up for the emotional pain he has and is causing me even if he thinks it makes him a good husband.

I'm glad to hear that you aren't constrained by your reliance of his financial support. It makes it a more equitable playing field.

 

You mentioned that there were three previous counsellors. Were these MC sessions or just IC sessions?

[csj07]

Please explain what MC and JC mean.

[Trialbyfire]

MC= marriage counselling

IC = individual counselling

[csj07]

I received marriage counselling from a counsellor who specialises in marriage counselling. Her opinion was that my husband was guilty of emotional infidelity and that he was seeking attention from those ladies. She recommended that my husband should break off all ties with those women which he has never done and that I should work on meeting his emotional needs which I have tried to do as much as I could. My husband categorically refused to go with me, so he never went.

 

After that I went to a psychologist. My husband only went with me once, and then he decided he wasn't the one with the problem, I was. I stopped going because the psychologist kept asking me what I was doing to meet my husband's emotional needs, never once did she mention my needs.

 

After that I went to a male pastoral counsellor. His opinion was that my husband was indulging in emotional infidelity. His prognosis wasn't good though. He said normally men (and women I suppose) don't stop this kind of addictive behaviour unless you actually leave them and don't only threaten to do so. So all three counsellors actually came up with the same prognosis.

[Trialbyfire]

I received marriage counselling from a counsellor who specialises in marriage counselling. Her opinion was that my husband was guilty of emotional infidelity and that he was seeking attention from those ladies. She recommended that my husband should break off all ties with those women which he has never done and that I should work on meeting his emotional needs which I have tried to do as much as I could. My husband categorically refused to go with me, so he never went.

 

After that I went to a psychologist. My husband only went with me once, and then he decided he wasn't the one with the problem, I was. I stopped going because the psychologist kept asking me what I was doing to meet my husband's emotional needs, never once did she mention my needs.

 

After that I went to a male pastoral counsellor. His opinion was that my husband was indulging in emotional infidelity. His prognosis wasn't good though. He said normally men (and women I suppose) don't stop this kind of addictive behaviour unless you actually leave them and don't only threaten to do so. So all three counsellors actually came up with the same prognosis.

Why are you still in this marriage? He's already opted out. Don't stoop to his level by cheating yourself, to meet your needs. Walk away if only to make him understand that you aren't his doormat. Be prepared though that he may hold you to your word and consider the marriage severed.

 

You are not responsible and cannot control 100% of the relationship.

[whichwayisup]

Well, it seems the choice has to be yours. Can you and ARE you willing to stay in your marriage with a man who seems to put you last? A husband who isn't attentive to your needs, doesn't respect you nor cares what you think or what you feel. How long can you survive in a marriage like that? It will KILL who you are, let alone make you eventually HATE him.

 

Maybe you need to shake things up - But be prepared to follow through - Meaning, tell him that you're very unhappy and disappointed in his non-efforts to save the marriage, that maybe it would be best to end it. Maybe he needs to actually SEE and experience some consquences of his past choices and recent actions. See how life will be without you in it.

[csj07]

Why are you still in this marriage? He's already opted out. Don't stoop to his level by cheating yourself, to meet your needs. Walk away if only to make him understand that you aren't his doormat. Be prepared though that he may hold you to your word and consider the marriage severed.

 

You are not responsible and cannot control 100% of the relationship.

It's easier said than done, I still love him and want to believe that he will change. He can be very loving and persuasive at home, it's only in public that he lets me down. I do believe he still loves me but just can't let go of those friendships.

 

I know he's afraid that I'll leave him and I believe that isn't what he wants.

 

 

I admit I let him get away with murder in the past, like standing by and waiting patiently while he chats to his female friends, and feeling hurt and humilated at the same time. However, that will never happen again, in the past I was too well-behaved to just leave and show him that he was being inconsiderate to me.