mammax3 Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 I'm sure my H is having an affair and I don't have any definite proof. Our marriage has been deteriorating for about 4 months (he may say longer). He's travelling a thousand miles away for business 10days/14 days. He sees her more than he sees me. He comes back early next week for our first 'talk' since he said he wanted to leave on his last trip home, 2 weeks ago. We have 2 children and I'm pregnant with #3. I want our marriage to work out. I've been reading up on affairs on the Marriage Builders website and I'm loving the insight that Harley gives. However, my H does want to leave the marriage and has not interest in counselling, or reconciliation. I'm somewhat buoyed by the fact that most affairs end on their own, but I'm nervous about the stats of a reconciliation after seperation. I think he's just 'addicted' to the affair right now and will come to see his mistake when his bodysnatcher returns him to himself... I think i'm emotionally strong enough to be able to try and 'win' him back through honest discussions of what happend between us that led to him feeling disconnected, trying to fulfill his emotional needs and making an effort around the house and with my looks (I've never been a good housekeeper, and with two small children it's a low priority to make sure I've got make up on). Adding to these problems is that with the new baby's imminent arrival, my ability to focus attention on him WILL be reduced. One of the problems I have, is that I feel I've got less than 3 days while he's here this time to 'convince' him that he should come back in another 2 weeks. I don't know which path to take: -tell him I know about her, and I'm looking to stay in the marriage -show him how much I love him (again, we're expecting talks around the marriage and his desire to leave, so I think I may have some hope here) through my actions and no using anger and shame to get him to see how wrong it'd be for him to leave -reason with him that it'd be better for the kids (4, 2) if he continued to come home every 2 weeks to keep their world consistent etc (and use these times to try and bolster our marriage) -wait it out. He can always find a new job out there, and that's where she is - he'd be leaving our family and I'd doubt I could 'entice' him home maybe not even after the affair has ended... -the baby's due in 6 weeks, try and encourage him to take some time off to be at home with us after the new baby's birth Maybe there's some other possibilities that I can't see right now. I've got 3 days until he comes home to figure out my own game plan and I'd really appreciate some advice. I don't want to push him further into her arms, but I'm afraid of appearing too needy or demanding for him to 'let go' before he's ready. Thanks.
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 Have you: Seen a lawyer? Get some legal advice, and get your lawyer to figure an amount for alimony and child support on your three children for the next eighteen years. Also look into alienation of affection and criminal conversation and find out if OW can be brought into the proceedings, and brought to court to compensate for her part in the damage to the marriage. Exposed the affair? Affairs don't end unless you force them to. One way to force the affair to end is to expose the affair to everyone you can think of that would have any vested interest in the situation - professional and personal interest. Be sure you include people who are close personally and professionally to OW as well. Think of your husband's affair as him suffering from an infection in the brain that warps his thinking and judgement. Until you do something about the infection, his thinking will not be clear enough for him to even consider working things out with you. Things like dollar amounts and cold hard exposure are two ways that you can attack that infection. Like most illnesses, it will get worse before it gets better - but until you force this affair to end, it will not end on its own. I can guarantee you this - your approach, while kind and gentle - will not end this affair. It will simply enable your husband to continue his affair, with no loss to him. Until he is faced with an actual loss as a result of his actions, he will have no reason to change his actions.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 I agree with LB. Go to the lawyer, work out the figures. I gathered from you posts that you do not have the information you would need to expose the affair, maybe I am wrong. Hand him the numbers and ask him to take his things and leave, tell him you love him but that you understand that he no longer feels that way toward you, and that it would be better if he left. Tell him that you will be fine experiencing the delivery without him. No tears, no begging, no trying to explain you feelings or pain. Say Goodbye and that you would do better for now if he doesn't call or come home. No amount of logic will help in this situation. No amount of talking, crying ect... will change the way he feels. The harder you pull him toward you, the harder he will pull away. Give him what he wants gladly and then it becomes just about him. IMHO that is your only chance, if you have one, to get him back. The harder you fight for him the harder he will fight against you.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 I can guarantee you this - your approach, while kind and gentle - will not end this affair. It will simply enable your husband to continue his affair, with no loss to him. Until he is faced with an actual loss as a result of his actions, he will have no reason to change his actions. I've heard it said at MB, that you "Plan A" a Spouse... but you "Plan B" a Wayward Spouse. And I agree with that. It worked for me, and I was just kind of flying by the seat of my pants BEFORE I'd even found MB. Unfortunately, you don't have a wayward husband until you can slap the proof of it on his nose. He'll deal with you while maintaining a position of innocence and your own position will be weakened by your lack of ability to bring the REAL issues to the table. LB is right. Until he's faced with an actual loss... there's no impetus for change. IWWH is right too. Begging and pleading do not work. The harder you chase him, the faster he runs. That said, I think you'd be wise to behave naturally. You don't want to give him your permission to go. He'll only use it to intensify his affair. Better, to stall for time. Afterall, you ARE nearly 8 months pregnant. It's going to be hard for you to deliver a newborn and still take care of your other small children. So there IS merit in asking him to stay with you for at least the next six months or so until you can get on your feet. He owes you at least that much. And you don't want to tip him off to your suspicions either. If you can barter for time... you can use that time to get the proof you need in order to take down the affair, and also to work on the marital issues. You can identify ENs and address them per Plan A. All the while, getting your Plan B together so it'll be a sharp contrast should you need to deploy it. Now... this is the part that's going to be difficult. He's going to continue in that affair behind your back the whole time. You need to think about if you can handle that or not. There's just nothing that's going to stop him right now. Without definitive proof of the affair, you don't have any tools... and here HE is with the bit in his teeth. He's gonna run 'til he blows himself out unless you can trip him up. The only impediments available to you for throwing into his path are his responsibilities and obligations toward his family. Now if you just can't deal with him... you can always insist on separation. But without access to him, your Plan A doesn't have much hope of success. He needs to be able to observe your changes. Plan A is quite frankly a bit competitive. It does NOT assume that the affair is over. What it does do is to allow your WS to see that you are a perfectly acceptable partner and a better alternative to the 'wreck and ruin' he's going to find down the other path. One last thing.... bargaining for more time will give you one other added benefit. It's going to give YOU more time to think things through. You've just had all this sprung on you and it's natural to have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction where you desperately want to keep the marriage going. And although I'm in perfect agreement with LB that there's a BIG "infection" going on in this guy's brain right now... he's still an ASSCLOWN. Stalling for time will give you an opportunity to assess his pre-affair behavior in hindsight. It'll give you a chance to view his character with a 20/20 lens. There's a distinct possibility that you might not like what you see. If so, here's your ticket out. A guy who's involved in an intensely emotional romantic affair will oftentimes 'give away the farm' just to end the marriage. It's something to think about.
2sunny Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 i am curious as to why you think that the OW is close to where he works when he is away? do you know for sure - and how? do you know who she is or how he met her? IF you do decide to work on the marriage and try to put things back together - why don't you consider moving close to his work? it would give you both more time together. he's gone waaaay too much for you both to have any closeness.
Mr. Lucky Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 I guess I feel differently. You can either be "on" the bus (profess your love, lay low, etc.) or "driving" the bus (confront him with what you know, see a lawyer, etc.) In my own similar situation, I realized that I couldn't control what my spouse did, thought or decided, I could only control me. Being proactive was important at that time as it helped me to stop feeling like such a loser and a victim. I'd say confront him, see his reaction, go from there... Mr. Lucky
Woggle Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 So he is cheating on you and you are the one trying to win him back? I will tell you the same thing I tell men and that is go find a lawyer and protect yourself in court. Luckily the courts should be on your side because you are a woman but make sure that he takes responsibility for his children. You can't force him to stay with you but you better make damn sure that he will be a father to his children. Show a backbone and he might just come back and apologize but let him walk all over you and he will. You also have 2 children so it is very much understandable if you don't get all dolled up everyday and he needs to realize that.
Author mammax3 Posted April 21, 2007 Author Posted April 21, 2007 No, I haven't seen a lawyer, I thought that may impel him to leave ("You got the lawyers involved, obviously you want me to leave!"). But I've got a number and I'm going to call on Monday - at least so he can walk me through what 'things' I need to know. LJ, that's kinda where I am too, given what the MB site said... and I think that plan a could work us out, but only and I mean ONLY if he's here. You're right, 2sunny, there isn't enough time for us when he's here. When I'm feeling mad (as I look at my two terrific kids incredulous how ANYONE could think of leaving them, or think about buying groceries next week with the meager funds I've retained from before) I agree with the 'hardball' line and want to force him to decide... But when I'm feeling compassionate and sorry for our relationship (he hasn't been around enough to maintain our connection, get his fill of EN's, enjoy the kids for who they are) then I want to try try try to fill his EN's when he's here... There's not a way to know which will work on him. At his present thinking, I'm not to sure he's thinking at all. I agree with you who think that chasing him will make him run faster away (he's quite like that), so I hope I won't be too clingy or needy. LJ, it's seriously like you're reading my thought bubbles. I thought 6 months should give us some time to reconnect and reestablish and allow us to reevaluate at the end - the catch is for him to find a job closer to home (which honestly wouldn't be tough if he wanted to) - and for me to look back with the 20/20 and see if I still even want him! I've seen LOTS of Dads around these last few weeks and H is measuring up short... Thank you for all your input. You've given me some new points to think through - and have impelled ME to see a lawyer. *if wishes were candy and nuts, we'd all have big buts* (I've had to edit myself away from the I wishes, and this saying always remind me to stop! )
Author mammax3 Posted April 21, 2007 Author Posted April 21, 2007 You also have 2 children so it is very much understandable if you don't get all dolled up everyday and he needs to realize that. Thanks Woggle. It's this competing feeling I get now that makes me wish.. ah well, see above about my wishes!! I just feel like I can't compete with whoever he's got out there. I wonder if she knows... he's not here enough for anyone here but me. I'm starting to worry about STD's - delivery can be complicated with one of those!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 21, 2007 Posted April 21, 2007 *if wishes were candy and nuts, we'd all have big buts* LOL, My mother always said, If wishes were horses, pigs would ride. I was just learning that wishing was futile when I found LS, hence my screen name. Please tell your obstetrician about your situation and for god sakes watch out for post partum depression. 3rd child, difficult situations at home, you are a prime candidate. Please be aware of this.
Author mammax3 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Posted April 23, 2007 He's coming 'home' tomorrow and I'm trying to be prepared for whatever he'll throw at me, since I have little idea on what he's going to say. So I'm feeling nervous and jumpy and quiet all at the same time. It's going to be one heck of a ride to the airport! I've thought some things through and overall I'm feeling pretty centered right now. Although a little teary and pukey (but that could just be the pregnancy! It's hard to tell!) LadyJane, I keep thinking about what you said-bartering for time, etc and 'exposing' him. That's just what I want to do, but he'd have to co-operate, and I don't think he will. I'm pretty sure this may be the last time he'll come 'home' since there's not much keeping him here, he may grab a bit of his stuff and jet. So I don't think I have the time I thought I did, and have to change the plan. I just have to remember not to get crazy mad and yelling and stuff (the kids will be with us, after all) but still be honest about true to myself about my feelings. It's terrifically relieving to know that after WHATEVER happens tomorrow, I can come here and let it out. Thanks for listening. And Thanks Wishes, for the PPD comment, you're right, and I think I'll see about a Doula. H probably won't be coming back for the birth.
mopar crazy Posted April 23, 2007 Posted April 23, 2007 I am so very sorry!!! Dealing w/ this and also expecting another child, how hard this must be. First, b4 anything take care of you and your children. You all come first b4 your WH and OW. I understand why you want to make the M work. My M sucked too b4 the A but I didn't want it to end. I just wanted him to seek help for his anger. He did seek help for his anger but less than six months later he started his A w/ a co-worker. He also filed for a D. I tried to "win" him back myself. I would do almost anything to get him back from the OW. I didn't want the OW to have him. I felt as if she won b/c she was after him for three years. I started taking better care of myself (it's hard when you are a mom, and run a daycare business). I lost a lot of weight, and honestly, I was looking good. He couldn't get over how good I looked. Slowly he woke the hell up and wondered what the hell he was doing having an A w/ the OW. It took a few months, a D proceeding, court hearing, and me moving away for him to wake up and realize what he was loosing. If your H wants to work on your M the first thing he needs to do is break it off w/ the OW. And they can't be friends either, it just doesn't work. You have gotten great advice so far. GL, I hope things turn around for the better for you.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 23, 2007 Posted April 23, 2007 LadyJane, I keep thinking about what you said-bartering for time, etc and 'exposing' him. That's just what I want to do, but he'd have to co-operate, and I don't think he will. I'll be honest with you, Mamma. I know you want to preserve the marriage... but if it was me, and he moved out despite my request to stay for six more months, I'd file on him immediately.... on grounds if I could. Divorce laws very from state-to-state, so you'll have to talk to an attorney. But I'd take him down and I'd take him down hard. Right now you are an EXTREMELY sympathetic figure, and I can't imagine what kind of judge wouldn't find in your favor on just about anything you asked. Two babies and another due any time... I'd ask for the frigging MOON if I were you and let old Mr. Reality bite WH square on the butt. This is often what it takes to get through to a cheater. Mr. Reality don't play. Don't forget what Lucrezia told you earlier regarding "losses". The fantasy bubble has to be POPPED. He won't stop until it is. Anyway... Good luck today. :bunny: I know you're nervous, but try to keep yourself calm. Next to the health and welfare of your new baby, this marriage means nothing. Watch your blood pressure, put your feet up if you feel like it's spiking, and keep breathing. People tend to hold their breath when they're upset, but that won't do for a lady in your condition.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 23, 2007 Posted April 23, 2007 Just wanted to say "good luck to you today". My thoughts will be with you. Stay strong and we'll all be around here if you need us.
2sunny Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 all good wishes and thoughts going out to you mammaX3... let us all know how things go... XO to you.
Author mammax3 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Posted April 24, 2007 Thank you for your thoughts today. It started off badly - H booking a later flight that made sleep for the kids and picking him up difficult, but I got it sorted out. I remember reading somewhere that a partner can't meet the other partner halfway, sometimes one partner has to go the whole way. Anyway, I tried to stay focussed on what I wanted and work from there. I didn't cry, or yell or say mean things (and I had many!). I stayed honest to my thoughts and feelings and tried to be eloquent enough to say them without fumbling or stuttering. We left it that he'd think about what I said. I did not mention the suspected OW. I did ask him and he said there was no one. So I let it drop. I'm going to try and 'wait and see' and see if there's more info coming, rather than the next to nil that I've got. There were many times, LJ, that I thought the word "assclown" () and tried to focus on the man I used to know. Although my feelings are conflicted after hearing what he had to say, I'd still like to see if counselling and a 'togetherness' period would help our marriage. It may not, but at least I can be confident that i didn't let it drop. Thank you all. I'm sure I'll have more to say as the week progresses.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 Glad you were able to keep you composure. That's not an easy thing to do. The not having information seems to drive you crazy, or did me. I've said before on LS. It wasn't til I stopped looking that it fell in my lap. I'm so proud of you for staying stong! I hope you have a productive week atleast. Let us know if we can help. You're doing great. Hugggssss!!!
Ladyjane14 Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 We left it that he'd think about what I said. It sounds like you handled things REALLY well. You realize that if there's an OW pulling his strings he's got to go to her now and either LIE about "where he left it" or admit that he didn't get the job done. I know that's probably small comfort at this point, but if she's out there somewhere gnashing her teeth... this kind of pressure does cause stress to the affair.
smartgirl Posted April 24, 2007 Posted April 24, 2007 I can't imagine what today is like for you. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I would recommend counselling whether he wants to leave or not. I have been told that it can make the separating process less painful for all. It would also give you time to see if things could work out. I agree with others -- when he is in the full throes of the affair addiction, you won't get any sense out of him. It is also not that uncommon to see men have affairs during times of increasing family stress and responsibility - line a new baby. Problem is - I don't know how you could pull this off with him gone so much. I hate to even ask this - but based on other stories I have heard are you sure he has really been where is says he is? Could he really be living with the other person the whole time and using call forwarding, etc? If you can afford a PI I would get one so you have the facts just in case.
Author mammax3 Posted April 25, 2007 Author Posted April 25, 2007 We talked again last night, and again, it went well (no tears or yelling or freaking out) but he's sure that he doesn't want to make it work, due to the 'unromantic' feelings he has for me. He seems to disagree that it is due to the lifestyle that we're living (travel, kids etc) and is just to do with him or I. I told him that i want to make it work, since I believe that these feelings are 'normal' in a situation like ours, and another woman will only complicate matters. He seemed a little thrown and was like, Hm? So I told him that I knew about OW and he denied it. I gave him her name, and said that I knew they were spending time together, and talking on the phone a lot. He denied any feelings for her (*shocker*) and said that they are friends and they just do fun 'friend' things together, and usually in a group. I said that anytime he talks to her about his problems instead of me then that's a problem to our relationship. We went back and forth in a completely civil manner and I decided not to press the issue. We are going for a therapy session today before he leaves. I do want to keep our marriage, I hope the therapist is able to talk to us. I know I'm not wrong about our feelings for each other (we do still love each other, albeit in a non-coupley kind of way) but I'm frustrated by his lack of perspective. There are so many contirbuting factors that he's not 'peeling away the layers' and seeing them all... They're just in a big pile and he's not sifting. Thanks again.
Wibble Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Fantastic self control Mammax. You have a grip on things and realise that he is in a "fog". Let him reach your conclusions on his own. Well done!
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 It is always amazing to me that men cannot find love for their wives who have been so very understanding as to try to live with betrayal and fix what the man decided to break. They are looking for "in love" cannot get through their thick heads, that "in love" lasts only for several years and when that type love is gone all you have left is the selfless, deep type of love, that their BS's had for them all along.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 We talked again last night, and again, it went well (no tears or yelling or freaking out) but he's sure that he doesn't want to make it work, due to the 'unromantic' feelings he has for me. He seems to disagree that it is due to the lifestyle that we're living (travel, kids etc) and is just to do with him or I. I told him that i want to make it work, since I believe that these feelings are 'normal' in a situation like ours, and another woman will only complicate matters. He seemed a little thrown and was like, Hm? So I told him that I knew about OW and he denied it. I gave him her name, and said that I knew they were spending time together, and talking on the phone a lot. He denied any feelings for her (*shocker*) and said that they are friends and they just do fun 'friend' things together, and usually in a group. I said that anytime he talks to her about his problems instead of me then that's a problem to our relationship. We went back and forth in a completely civil manner and I decided not to press the issue. We are going for a therapy session today before he leaves. I do want to keep our marriage, I hope the therapist is able to talk to us. I know I'm not wrong about our feelings for each other (we do still love each other, albeit in a non-coupley kind of way) but I'm frustrated by his lack of perspective. There are so many contirbuting factors that he's not 'peeling away the layers' and seeing them all... They're just in a big pile and he's not sifting. Thanks again. He WILL attempt to rewrite the marital history. Be prepared and don't let it rattle your cage. That's just part of "the disease". Counseling is a good first step. But... it's seldom effective when there's an affair underfoot. So, be prepared for that too.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 25, 2007 Posted April 25, 2007 Er, it's not only men, you know..... Yeah, I do know that, sorry, didn't mean to imply it was only men.
Recommended Posts