Marriage & Money

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with Mr. Lucky. I'll explain why.

 

Both my ex and I went into our marriage with our own assets, where neither one of us was hurting. We kept separate accounts for our entire marriage because it was easier to leave "as is" and also for reasons of personal financial independence. When we split, we both still had easy access to monies. While I went into the marriage with a "Til death do you part" attitude, it was a relief not to have to deal with the financial mess while emotions were still raw.

[Touche]

Are you being difficult on purpose? If you are just scaping by, there isn't discretionary spending unless you're counting the choice between paying the light bill or the mortgage. Under those circumstances (and in "My Humble Opinion"), a single account makes the most sense. THIS IS NOT AN INSULT TO COUPLES THAT ONLY HAVE ONE CHECKING ACCOUNT.

 

Sheesh...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You're funny! No. I'm not being difficult on purpose, as you say. I'm trying to inject some logic into your thinking. It's obviuously not working though.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm trying to inject some logic into your thinking.

No wonder I'm putting up such a fight

 

Mr. Lucky

[Touche]

Trial, this has nothing to do with what you end up with in the case of a divorce.

 

I thought we were discussing which makes more sense for a couple who is scraping by? Joint account or single account?

 

It's obviously a joint account. First, you save on banking fees, easier to keep track of what's coming in and going out, etc.

[Touche]

No wonder I'm putting up such a fight

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I respect, you Mr. Lucky. You recognize when you've been trumped.

[Trialbyfire]

Trial, this has nothing to do with what you end up with in the case of a divorce.

 

I thought we were discussing which makes more sense for a couple who is scraping by? Joint account or single account?

 

It's obviously a joint account. First, you save on banking fees, easier to keep track of what's coming in and going out, etc.

Touche, it has to do with the setup of bank accounts and the benefits to each person. I'm not going to go into all the details of how it works for my divorce but suffice to say, I'm doing this right now. While at the end of the day, whatever assets you acquire during the marriage is joint property, having separate accounts ensures that no one pulls a fast one on you by predraining the accounts.

 

How do you save on banking fees by having joint bank accounts? You have the same amount of bills and the same amount of withdrawals, therefore, the number of transactions should be very close to equal.

 

I'm also not interested in controlling the household finances or relying on anyone else to do it for me.

[Curmudgeon]

...it was a relief not to have to deal with the financial mess while emotions were still raw.

 

When the ex left we had joint checking and savings accounts. While I was out of town on a week-long business trip (that's when she left) she and her "friends" emptied out the house (and I do mean emptied!) and she also emptied out the bank accounts.

 

Did I mention that she moved one of her "friends" in with herself and our two minor daughters then married him before the ink was dry on the final divorce order? Turns out she'd met him at work seven months before she left me.

[Trialbyfire]

When the ex left we had joint checking and savings accounts. While I was out of town on a week-long business trip (that's when she left) she and her "friends" emptied out the house (and I do mean emptied!) and she also emptied out the bank accounts.

 

Did I mention that she moved one of her "friends" in with herself and our two minor daughters then married him before the ink was dry on the final divorce order? Turns out she'd met him at work seven months before she left me.

Ouch. Not nice people. No matter how much you love someone, sometimes it's never enough for the needy. The last thing you want to have to worry about in the dissolution of a relationship are the immediate financial concerns of life's basic necessities...like food, affording a place to live and sufficient funds for legal fees, to get your fair share back.

 

C's example is why it's always a good idea if you insist on having joint accounts, to always have one nest egg that's separate and unknown to your SO. Keep the information in a safety deposit box that's referenced in your will so that your loved ones don't have to seek and find if something untoward happens to you.

 

Don't think your spouse won't try to leverage off your financial lack if they know your situation. It ensures that they have the upper-hand in a divorce so they get what they want knowing you have limited resources, thus limited time to hammer out an agreement. This includes ensuring that you remain in a marriage of their convenience.

 

Financial self-protection never hurts anyone. If someone insists on sharing and controlling all your assets where they've brought little to none into the marriage, I would be very careful to ensure a prenuptual is in place. Blind financial trust is asking to be analled...

 

The plus portion of this is, in times of financial emergency in a healthy marriage, your nest egg can be used to ward off bad times.

[Woggle]

Many marriage problems are cuased by money so since my wife and are both financially independent we decided it would be for the best to have seperate accounts. We both contribute half to all the household expenses but after that we both spend our money how we like. That way she won't get mad at me spending on my interests and I won't be mad her spending on her's. We are both very generous but we are each in control of the money we earn.

[SurpriseSurprise]

I think there needs to be a divide in responsiblities and accounts to cause communications before things go to far. We have seporate accounts but since she makes most of the money she puts money in my account. Even though it is a joint account she never uses it. It is mine to manage or mismanage. She pay's directly the house, utils and car. I cover all the other house expenses. She puts money in to cover a house cleaner food entertainment but I get to decide whether I cook or go out, hire a maid or do it myself and keep the money for other uses. Since I have had finacial problems in the past she feels comfortable that she can just funds the account and forget. This works well for both of us but it is not with out issue. I feel I should have some access to her account other then just seeing the statements. She feels that this is cleaner and creates communications before spending extra money. Since I would need to ask her if I need to buy something that is more then I have in my budget. I personaly think that when married I should have equal access but we can keep using the accounts as is.

[serial muse]

I have to say I'm really reassured to read how many people think separate accounts are perfectly normal and reasonable.

 

My exH and I each kept our own accounts. We split the bills exactly the way Gunny described earlier - based on our relative incomes. (Initially, I made more than him, but later, he made more than me.)

 

I thought it worked fine, but I guess my exH's family thought it was strange and put pressure on him about it, and he ultimately saw it as me not fully committing to him or something. I guess there's some truth to that...for one thing, he had a lot of debt going into the marriage and I had basically none...and I guess I wasn't wholly trusting of how well he handled his finances. So I wanted to keep some control over what became of my income.

 

I remember going out to dinner with his brother and brother's wife once, though, and when the check came we both pulled out our wallets and they were aghast. They gave us both all sorts of crap about each paying our own bill, as though that meant we weren't really married or something. Eventually it became part of the overall accusation that I was too independent or something.

 

So yeah - I know that different things work for different people, but it's just nice to hear both men and women say that keeping separate accounts is perfectly normal!!

 

And I will say that when we did split up, sorting the finances out was delightfully easy.

[Teeky3]

The only joint I'd want is a good marijuana every now and again! (lol...lol)

 

Seriously...keep it separate, PLEASE! And I don't recommend 50/50 either because supposed HE makes $100K per year and SHE makes $50K. Splitting bills 50/50 will short change the one who makes the least amount of money.

 

Who pays what should be based on how much you make....and what kind of major bills you are bringing in i.e., child support, college tuition. It's not always 50/50.

[VinaAmez]

To me it's insane to have joint accounts. That's only because I've witnessed how bad it can be. I will never in my life have one and I think is suicide to do so. But like I said, I only feel this way because I've seen first hand how ugly it is. I've never seen good in having those. Always seems to turn ugly IMO.

 

As for this banking fee, I have no idea what your all talking about because I have no banking fees. I'll never go with a bank that charges me to store my money. Why would I do that?

 

My hubsand and I have a joint account but it is not always pleasant. Finances is one of the biggest arguments sometimes, over little stupid things like eating lunch out.

 

Yep I've seen that one also.

 

I've seen it go as far as to the person trying to control what the other person buys to using the "guilt trip." Selfish greedy money bastards IMO.

And let me say the guilt trip always works because if they buy something that's considered unnecessary in THEIR opinion and money is short for bills, guess who gets blamed? Fight city.

[che_jesse]

With my husband and I it comes out to something more of a responsibility splitting.

 

He pays for the utilites, the house is my responsibility so anything home related I pay for, food, cleaning supplies, house related entertainment.

 

We have been treating our individual debt as our debt together for a very long time. When we got on the path of fixing our credit and starting our saveings we both put the CC we were working on paying off first.

[Guest]

I agree with Mr. Lucky. I'll explain why.

 

Both my ex and I went into our marriage with our own assets, where neither one of us was hurting. We kept separate accounts for our entire marriage because it was easier to leave "as is" and also for reasons of personal financial independence. When we split, we both still had easy access to monies. While I went into the marriage with a "Til death do you part" attitude, it was a relief not to have to deal with the financial mess while emotions were still raw.

------------------------------

MAYBE THAT'S WHY YOU'RE DIVORCE.

[Missy27]

Not married, but in LTR.

 

I have a seperate account into which half of my wages are paid, he's self employed so has a business account, into which 3/4 of his wages are paid. We have one joint account into which the other half of my wages and the other 1/4 of his wages is paid (he earns more than me). Our seperate accounts are for our own personal expediture and the joint account is used to pay bills, household expenses etc. I have a savings account into which we both contribute, so are going to change this into a joint account. I have one credit card which is soley mine but I trust him with it, I let him take it to London with him recently when he went on a stag do.

 

It works well for us because we kind of get the best of both worlds. If we are going out for dinner with friends or something like that then we decide beforehand who is going to pay and use our respective cards/cheques accordingly.

[Touche]

To me it's insane to have joint accounts. That's only because I've witnessed how bad it can be. I will never in my life have one and I think is suicide to do so. But like I said, I only feel this way because I've seen first hand how ugly it is. I've never seen good in having those. Always seems to turn ugly IMO.

 

As for this banking fee, I have no idea what your all talking about because I have no banking fees. I'll never go with a bank that charges me to store my money. Why would I do that?

 

 

 

Yep I've seen that one also.

 

I've seen it go as far as to the person trying to control what the other person buys to using the "guilt trip." Selfish greedy money bastards IMO.

And let me say the guilt trip always works because if they buy something that's considered unnecessary in THEIR opinion and money is short for bills, guess who gets blamed? Fight city.

 

 

But see, I have this little theory that the money issues are just a symptom of incompatibility in other areas of the relationship.

 

To me it's not insane to have joint accounts. It works for us. We don't quibble about every little purchase the other makes because we're both very conservative and share the same financial goals. We rarely buy something that's just for us and not for both of us. But when we do, we don't say anything to one another about it. Why should I deny my husband if he wants to buy a few suits? He didn't deny me when I bought my expensive laptop for my birthday a couple of years ago.

 

So yes, for some people it's "insane" to have a joint account. I mean if they can't see eye to eye on money matters, then they shouldn't do it.

 

But I think sometimes there are larger issues than just incompatibilty as far as finances go. Selfish behavior often extends far beyond just money matters.

[VinaAmez]

But see, I have this little theory that the money issues are just a symptom of incompatibility in other areas of the relationship.

 

To me it's not insane to have joint accounts. It works for us. We don't quibble about every little purchase the other makes because we're both very conservative and share the same financial goals. We rarely buy something that's just for us and not for both of us. But when we do, we don't say anything to one another about it. Why should I deny my husband if he wants to buy a few suits? He didn't deny me when I bought my expensive laptop for my birthday a couple of years ago.

 

So yes, for some people it's "insane" to have a joint account. I mean if they can't see eye to eye on money matters, then they shouldn't do it.

 

But I think sometimes there are larger issues than just incompatibilty as far as finances go. Selfish behavior often extends far beyond just money matters.

 

I agree and I can see it being a symptom of incompatibility but not a cross the board. Some couples simply are unable to handle joining their money together. Doesn't mean their incompatable.

[luvstarved]

My H and I have joint account. He leaves all of the financial stuff to me. He's just not interested or is too lazy or whatever. For the most part, money is the least of our problems. I make substantially more than he does but neither one of us really cares all that much about money and are generally reasonable about spending, etc. I have just one rule, and that is to check with me first before making any individual discretionary purchases over $100 with the DEBIT card, just to make sure that things are not "tight" at that time (just had car repaired, big dental bill or whatever). If he must make a purchase and cannot check with me, he needs to put it on the credit card...but that is considered pretty much a "last resort" in our house.

 

We generally ride on a $1-2K cushion in our checking account but sometimes when we get hit with a few things at once it can get a little suspenseful, so I just keep that rule in place as a safety net. He doesn't mind, since he is not a big spender anyway.

 

The only time that money becomes an issue is sometimes he gets bent out of shape when I give his stepdaughters money and he questions those expenditures (we are talking pizza and movie money here, not days at the spa and designer clothing), while feeling free himself to spend on concert tix, baseball tix, etc. I almost never give him crap about money, and yeah, especially since I get child support and make a lot more, I am not inclined to take crap either. So if he tries to give me any, he does get an earful. THat only happens maybe once or twice a year though.

[Touche]

I agree and I can see it being a symptom of incompatibility but not a cross the board. Some couples simply are unable to handle joining their money together. Doesn't mean their incompatable.

 

That's true. It doesn't always mean incompatibility across the board. I saw that with my mom and stepdad. Money was the only area in which they weren't compatible.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

C's example is why it's always a good idea if you insist on having joint accounts, to always have one nest egg that's separate and unknown to your SO. ....

Wow... what can I say? What else do you keep secret from your SO? A lover perhaps? geez...

 

If my wife had the attitude that we had to keep our finances separate, or we should have secrets from one another, then I'd be inclined to keep our beds seperate too.

 

If my wife kept a secret bank account I'd consider that the very same as cheating. Keeping secrets... a big no, no.

 

One flesh? Ever hear of the concept? If you can't trust your spouse with your money can you trust them to not be sleeping around?

 

I guess that's the modern marriage, seperate bank accounts, seperate vacations, seperate "nights out", and ... seperate lives. Just two people living together under one roof - more roommates than H and W.

 

Don't think your spouse won't try to leverage off your financial lack if they know your situation. It ensures that they have the upper-hand in a divorce so they get what they want knowing you have limited resources, thus limited time to hammer out an agreement. This includes ensuring that you remain in a marriage of their convenience.

Again, wow.... with an attitude like that I wonder how long a marrage could possibly last? Assuming failure from the get go. Becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

Financial self-protection never hurts anyone. If someone insists on sharing and controlling all your assets where they've brought little to none into the marriage, I would be very careful to ensure a prenuptual is in place. Blind financial trust is asking to be analled...

Well I insisted that my wife turn over all her assets and her income to me so I can control every aspect of her life. She is my slave after all...

 

Now to what we really do and have done for 33 years. All our money goes into a single joint checking account. Everything is titled jointly. It's not hers, it's not mine. It's ours. Funny thing about old style marriages like my parents (lasted 56 before death parted them). They always spoke in the plural. Our house, we ... not I, me or mine. Even 8 years after my father's death mom still referred to it as "our house".

 

Neither of us bothers writing checks anymore. All online banking, instant access to transactions and balances (quicken is great), ATM for cash, debit card for some purchases, but mostly credit card purchases, with airline miles as bonus. We have no debt except the mortgage which is 8 years from being paid off, cars bought for cash, no balances on credit cards. And we both spend what we want, but we're both rather conservative (except for my wife's shoe collection. Puts Amelda Marcos to shame).

[Trialbyfire]

Wow... what can I say? What else do you keep secret from your SO? A lover perhaps? geez...

 

If my wife had the attitude that we had to keep our finances separate, or we should have secrets from one another, then I'd be inclined to keep our beds seperate too.

 

If my wife kept a secret bank account I'd consider that the very same as cheating. Keeping secrets... a big no, no.

 

One flesh? Ever hear of the concept? If you can't trust your spouse with your money can you trust them to not be sleeping around?

 

I guess that's the modern marriage, seperate bank accounts, seperate vacations, seperate "nights out", and ... seperate lives. Just two people living together under one roof - more roommates than H and W.

 

Again, wow.... with an attitude like that I wonder how long a marrage could possibly last? Assuming failure from the get go. Becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

Well I insisted that my wife turn over all her assets and her income to me so I can control every aspect of her life. She is my slave after all...

 

Now to what we really do and have done for 33 years. All our money goes into a single joint checking account. Everything is titled jointly. It's not hers, it's not mine. It's ours. Funny thing about old style marriages like my parents (lasted 56 before death parted them). They always spoke in the plural. Our house, we ... not I, me or mine. Even 8 years after my father's death mom still referred to it as "our house".

 

Neither of us bothers writing checks anymore. All online banking, instant access to transactions and balances (quicken is great), ATM for cash, debit card for some purchases, but mostly credit card purchases, with airline miles as bonus. We have no debt except the mortgage which is 8 years from being paid off, cars bought for cash, no balances on credit cards. And we both spend what we want, but we're both rather conservative (except for my wife's shoe collection. Puts Amelda Marcos to shame).

Oh wow, that was useful...for sure. I kept lovers all over the place. Read my story before making ridiculous assumptions...

 

I stand firm on separate accounts and if you're going joint, keep one aside. It's always good to have something to fall back on when times are tough. I don't see why my recommendations threaten you so much but I guess someone like you likes to control...everything...

[Woggle]

I agree with seperate accounts but I don't agree with keeping secrets from each other. I keep no secrets from my wife but I like control over my money and so does she. Keeping secrets is not good for a marriage.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Oh wow, that was useful...for sure. I kept lovers all over the place. Read my story before making ridiculous assumptions...

 

First, I don't have time to read everyone's "story". And I made no assumptions. My point was that if a person keeps a secret "nest egg", then what else would that person be willing to keep secret from their SO? The "lover" was just an example of something people tend to keep secret.

 

I'm sorry that I often write "you" when I really mean "one"... so don't take it that I meant it specifically to be personally about you. I was just using your example to make a point... sloppy writing perhaps.

 

But it begs the question. You think it is acceptable to keep a slush fund secret from your SO. What else would you think was acceptable to keep secret from your SO? Is it OK for your SO to keep a secret "nest egg" of his or her own? If you can't trust your SO with your money, how can you trust them with your life?

 

I stand firm on separate accounts and if you're going joint, keep one aside.

You know how useless that is if you get divorced in a community property state? ALL the assets of the marriage are on the table and if you hide any of them from the court ... well let's just say the judge is gonna frown on that big time.

 

If you and your SO have any assets you can rest assured that the attorney's won't be worried that they won't get their cut from your hides.

 

It's always good to have something to fall back on when times are tough. I don't see why my recommendations threaten you so much but I guess someone like you likes to control...everything...

Perhpas you didn't read carefully. Neither of us controls the other. But we also expect we will disclose everything to each other. i.e. we have no secrets from each other. My wife sometimes works on classified contracts and I still expect her to be able to talk to me about those, because I would be honor bound not to discuss anything she was requried to keep secret with anyone else but her. In that regard we are "one mind". Sorry if you don't get that.

[Flyin in Clouds]

I agree with seperate accounts but I don't agree with keeping secrets from each other. I keep no secrets from my wife but I like control over my money and so does she. Keeping secrets is not good for a marriage.

But Woggle, as long as each of you think of it as "my money" and not "our money" how married are you?

 

If your wife needs a little extra money this month do you make her sign a loan agreement? What interest rate do you give her?

 

Are you two seperate individuals sharing a bed or are you "one"?

 

And I don't mean this personally Woggle, but generally if two people keep seperate accounts are they really that trusting of one another. Are they are really fully totally committed to each other? If the two accounts are just to make balancing the checkbooks easier, that's one thing. But if it's because one partner doesn't trust the other to manage their money or not gamble it all away... well that's a problem.