No intimacy, no sex

[car2007]

I posted a quick history of my relationship with my W ("Begin and the Beginning") on the divorce/separation board cause I think that is where the marriage may be headed, but maybe some insight will be found here too. Never had a super fulfulling sex life with my W, we do have some serious intimacy issues. She was a little more adventurous when we were younger, but that declined to where it was usually just some quick foreplay (maybe), the act, then its over. She's just not that interested and to be honest, neither was I. But its not about the sex, it can't be, there has to be more and by that I mean more connectedness, more emotion. We've been married 15 years and have a 7 year old child. Sex was more frequent earlier in the marriage which I know is not unusual, but since our child was born its dropped off more and more to the point now where its been 2 years since we even shared a bed, let alone had sex. I'm not as concerned about the lack of sex itself, because I'm certain if we had a closer relationship, a stronger emotional bond, the sex would be there. I don't think we've ever really understood each other. We live our married life, love and are completely devoted to our child, but there is a huge gap between us. Neither one of us seems to "get" the other. We get along, do fun stuff together as a family, but this is not a good marriage by the classic definition and I don't know if it ever will be. It's not like we lost something; I don't think we ever had it. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

[LabradorsGalor]

I can completely relate to your experience. My wife and I have been going through a very difficult time this year. We have been together for about 12 years with very limited sex in the last 10 years. We never had a great sex life but the first two years was ok at best. She had a lot of hangups about sex. At first wasn't into oral (now she's ok with it), issues with cum, condoms, words, language, shyness, positions, time of day, ect. The frequency of our sexual activity dropped to about once a month on a saturday or sunday morning and we would go through the same routine. I call it the "get on, get off, get off of me sex" routine. Over the last 6 or 7 years, our sexual activity has fallen off even more to about 1x every few months and we have gone as long as 1 year without sex - not to my choosing I just got tired of being rejected so I waited for her to notice and initiate something. She didn't.

 

With sex missing, the intimacy in our relationship went too. I wasn't that interested in her and felt rejected all the time. She felt hurt too that I was more interested in planning fishing and biking trips with friends than spending time with her. I also became engrossed in work and focused on that - traveling and working all the time - distancing myself from her even more. This coincided with the period in our relationship where sex became even more infrequent.

 

I also made some foolish decisions along the way. I started surfing on the net for pictures and having erotic chats with people as a replacement for the lack of sex and eroticsm in my relationship. Foolish and stupid I know. She has discovered this a couple of times in the course of our relationship and each time I promise to quit. However, implicit in my promise was the assumption on my part that we would work on our sexlife. We didn't and we never really addressed her issues with sex. Usually the blame was focused on me and I was the one with the problem. I agree and recognize that I shouldn't do those sorts of things in a healthy marriage and relationship unless consentual - and it wasn't.

 

Over the last few years, my wife and I have grown apart and basically tollerated one another. I found out this January that my wife had an affair. I know that it wasn't because of sex, but because of a lack of intimacy and closeness in our relationship. I blame her for cutting out sex and she blames me for not being emotionally available.

 

We are in couples counseling and individual therapy and I'm hopeful and cautiously optimistic - but a sexless marriage is no way to live. I am concerned that my wife has a fundamental issue with sex that has been present in our relationship since it started. In short, I feel we may have been doomed from the start.

 

We are starting our 5 month of counseling and we still are not having sex. She tells me she doesn't feel good about it and wants to wait until she does. I'm not sure what we are waiting for, but in the meantime I am trying to be patient and understanding. I haven't pressured her in anyway or form. Also, I have been trying to focus on other forms of intimacy - which has been a healthy growing experience for me. I used to hate giving her backrubs - because I would get horny and excited and want to be with her - now I've realize one of the greatest pleasure I got from being sexual with my wife was giving her pleasure and using my body in a close an intimate way to create pleasure for her. Now I recognize that I can do that in the form of a back massage and - wow- now I enjoy that experience.

 

This all seems to be working for me, but its hard to tell how its working for my wife. I am ever hopeful. However, I've realized that if this is as good as our relationship is going to get that it isn't good enough for me. For now, I'm willing to give us time.

 

Treading Water in a Sexless Marriage.

[car2007]

"Over the last few years, my wife and I have grown apart and basically tollerated one another. I found out this January that my wife had an affair. I know that it wasn't because of sex, but because of a lack of intimacy and closeness in our relationship. I blame her for cutting out sex and she blames me for not being emotionally available."

 

Thanks Lab, for your post. Your sitch does sound similar to mine. I'm positive my wife hasn't had an affair, though. If she had I not sure I'd be mad, hard to say I guess unless it happens to you. It evidently wasn't a deal breaker for you. The emotionally unavailable comment is a very familiar term to me. She has said that about me, and I can't deny it. But how to fix that? I'm not a closed up person, certainly not with my friends. Is it possible two people, despite having gone through courtship, marriage, children, just have not been and are not compatible, intimately speaking? Can they ever be? Maybe I'm dense, but it is beyond my capacity to think they can. It seems we would have to change who we are.

[LabradorsGalor]

My wife's affair wasn't a deal breaker for me. I feel hurt by it and don't think she has fully come to terms with what she has down. She is the type of person that doesn't admit fault easily and is rare to apologize.

 

I have discovered in myself that I am not an emotional vacant person, but rather that I have a lot of passion to give to her if she would 1. Be willing to accept it and 2. Be willing to give back to that emotion and passion in ways that I want. I think its ok to think of your wants and needs so that you're able to articulate them to her. My wife is very good at wanting and demanding affection on her terms...snuggles...cuddles...hand holding...of of which are great and I enjoy them...but when I feel close to her and want to express to her how close I feel in a physical way...I'm almost always rejected and I have come to feel like there is something wrong with me for wanting sex from her...like I'm oversex...or regular sex between couples isn't normal...so hmmm...I wonder why I became emotionally unavailable...in part it was because I was angry with her, but what i've come to realize after too many $100/hr therapy sessions that it was a defense mechanism...no one likes to feel rejected, especially by someone who you share your most intimate feelings and emotions with...someone you're not usually guarded with...but in this case I had to be guarded to avoid being rejected. I'm sure there is some circular logic there but oh well...relationships are never linear.

 

My point is that you probably are a passionate person...a normal person...but passion needs to flow both ways. Ask is your wife good at both giving and receiving various forms of intimacy broken down in the following elements.

 

Emotion/Love

Sex

Physical - non sexual time together

Compasion/Respect

 

I am realizing my wife has a hard timing giving various forms of intimacy - at least at a level that satisfies me.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think the simple truth is just that couples can be mis-matched, something that is not always easy to see in the glow of courtship. The bottom line is that if your needs and expectations become that different, maybe you "shouldn't" be married. Very hard to make the other person happy if you think you are being deprived (on one side) or pressured (on the other). At least, that was my experience...

 

Mr. Lucky

[will2power]

Let me ask you something, car, you have a child. What kind of sample do you want to set for her? She is going to grow up thiking that this is what M is about? Seems like a shame? Perhaps you and your W both are not with the right for each other?

 

I left my H because I felt like we were growing apart. We wanted different things and I thought that the most loving thing I can give him and to myself is a new life.

 

I heard he is dating and I am with the love of my life now. I have never been happier. It took a while to get there but and I'm not there yet. D plays some crazy games with your head, for sure. Its to be taking as a last resort and especially with a child involved, its important to try each avenue you can take to see if you can work things out with her. But if you have the r you have today, you and she are definitely not doing justice to your child.

[car2007]

Emotion/Love

Sex

Physical - non sexual time together

Compasion/Respect

 

Physical - non sexual time and compassion/respect has not been our problem, at least, not serious problems. However emotion/love and sex have been seriously lacking between us. 15 years, how could we have let it go on that long? I suppose with the birth of our daughter 7 years ago, we thought things would change, get better, between us. Rookie mistake I guess, seen in hindsight, thinking that children could save us. We both wanted a child, though she pushed me pretty hard before I decided I was ready. I'm not sorry about having our daughter, not saying that at all. She really is the best thing that's happened to my wife and me and, if the marriage doesn't survive, we can at least be proud of what it produced when we were together.

[geneboy73]

Guys,

 

I am in the same boat as all of you. The only difference is I am in the beginning of my marriage. My wife and I have been together almost 5 years and we have been married 2.5 of them. I got the "I love you, but I don't love you anymore speech" a few months ago and sex has plummetted from about once every week or every other week to maybe once a month or every other month. She initiated sex a few weeks ago and I could tell she was tense the whole time and I could tell she didn't "finish". An now, she goes cold and angry when I initiate anything sexual and she says she is not interested in sex at all. She said she feels like she is having sex with a family member and has CRIED afterwards a few times in the past. She has issues with sex and always has. She was tricked into a sexual encounter by a crooked cop on a vacation and has issues with sex from an early age. I know she has to get help for this. I am trying not to baby her and be a parental figure, because I know that makes her feel this way (me = family figure), but if I don't do stuff for her or do things around the house it gets miserable!

 

My question to you all is, do I stay? She says, "fine stay, but this is going to be a loveless, sexless marriage and I don't know if I will ever be the way you want me to be and that is sad for you", but she is finally looking into getting counseling after 3 months of going back and forth about this. We are FINE except when it comes to sex. We have fun, we do things and we are absolute best friends and a good team. Am I so early in my marriage that this is a good time to leave before it gets worse or do I stay the course and see what happens? I am 33 and she is 27 and we have NO kids, just 3 dogs who might as well be our kids. I want to be happy and I truly do love her (and I know she loves me). Both of us feel guilty for what we are feeling about the situation and how we are handling it and we keep apologizing and fighting then making up. I have been in therapy for 2 months now and it is helping with my fears and anxieties, but I can't tolerate the rejection and it always sends us into a fight which interferes with all other aspects of our lives. She says we can go on the way we have been and that she is getting a referral for a therapist. I want to stay, but I am worried about it getting worse. She wants what everyone else has with regads to sex, but she isn't into it with me and I know that she isn't seeing anyone. I checked her phone, email, and with friends (I know, that's awful to do). I am trying to fill my time and not focus on her, but it is difficult. She said she would "try" but she hasn't been working that hard on things and she's been running from the issue in my opinion.

 

Any advice from people who have "been there, done that?" Hope you guys are hanging in there too!

[LabradorsGalor]

Again, I am having the same feelings how did I let our relationship go on for so long so poorly? Did I have my head in the sand or am I a complete idiot? We've been having sexual and intimacy issues since shortly after our marriage. Now part of me feels like I've wasted an enormous amount of time. We don't have kids - her decision that I capitulated to and knew that I didn't want kids with her given her issues with children. Now I wonder what life would have been like with children. I suppose its still possible, but I'll be older by the time they are out of the house. There are other things I wonder about how my life would be different had I made some hard decisions earlier in our relationship. However, that time is giving me the strength to finally ask myself some hard questions and quit avoiding tough decisions. I know that I cannot continue living in the relationship the way it has been. We are both working on making changes - the the sex thing is very slow to change. I'm a bit skeptical but willing to give it one last chance since I do truly love and care for her. That's the most painful part. I love this woman, I want to be close to her, but she keeps pushing me away. Wha Wha Wha. In short, I don't feel too stupid or silly for letting my relationship continue now that I'm using those past experiences to make changes for the better and that will either be changes in our relationship or ending the relationship. I now have the courage to no longer let it limp along.

[Reckless]

There are some really fabulous threads here at The Shack on sexless marriages and more importantly improving them.... I was reading one post not too long ago from a man who took positive steps to improve the situation - working on his own issues but also letting his wife know that it was indeed a deal breaker and in the end would end the marriage if she too didn't work..

 

I'm sorry I don't have the link but do do some reading I'm sure you'll find them encouraging and helpful

 

Reckless

[Mustang Sally]

Car and Labrador -

I empathise with you, albeit I am a W instead of a H.

 

Don't have any answers, but am glad you both are posting.

 

There are some very insightful folks here who are good to bounce things off of.

 

- Mustang Sally

[Guest]

I'm not married, I've been with my boyfriend for 3 years and we have never ever had sex. He's 41 I'm 31 When we met he was a vigin. I thought it was great cause I could teach him exactly what I wanted...think again... we tried to start being physical only to discover he had an erectile dysfunction, he could not sustain an erection...The trying and failing became a huge burden, he tried pills and they didn't work, he refuses to seek help and I go´t tired of being rejected over and over and over... I kept repeating to myself that his dysfunction had nothing to do with me, I kept telling to myself that I was still young, attractive caring and special, but one day I didn't feel like young and attractive or special, my self image got twisted and all I could see in the mirror was an ugly woman, I felt self-consous about everything related to my body. I lost my confidence... To the point of removing all the mirrors in my house so I wouldn't have to look at myself... In the mean time, still no sex but this time I was me, I didn't want to be near him in bed... He told me that he can live witout it cause he's done it before, he said is not important for him and it sounds to me more like he is willing to go for it to make me happy. he even said that he's not too crazy about the fluids and (in his own words) that's disgusting...lots of talking lots of trying to find a way out and my self esteem going under and under ...shortly after celebrating our third (sexless) year together, I slept with someone else... got slightly drunk and had sex with a friend...you know what's the worse part of it? it wasn't fullfiling or satisfaying, it was drunk-driven and I cried half the time and the other half felt miserable...now I'm faced with the possibility of telling my boyfriend what happend and watch him walk out of my life or keep it to myself and become a full scale lier...any tips?

[Carnebor]

5 kids and almost two decades later I can say with certainty that anyone who wants the roller coaster of a bad relationship to stop, be the first to get off...and I don't mean separation/divorce.

 

Humbly, be the first to say "I love you, I want you, I will work to have you. I understand that you'll have to want me too and I'm willing to work on it and for it." Then, date your wife. By her flowers just because... Spirit her off for the weekend, just because... Plan romantic evenings out, just because. And with all the tenderness that your particular brand of masulinity will yield, tell her "I love you" often. For mature men, this is the work of men and requires emotional stamina and mental discipline. For those of lesser maturity, this is being 'played', misused, or taken advantage of... Whether she ultimately appreciates your efforts or not, you'll be better for having put forth the effort. Counseling is always a good idea when situations are severe. A sexless marriage IS severe. Sex/lovemaking isn't everything but it IS something.

 

Having said that, sex is rarely the problem. Typically, it's the stuff happening before we get to the bedroom that determines whether there will be satisfaction or sad reactions.

[car2007]

Thanks for your comments will2power. You may be right. I have been thinking a lot about our daughter and what's best for her. Its not like my W and have an abusive relationship; we do respect each other and both want what's best for our child. We talked again last night about our situation. No resolution but at least we're talking.

[car2007]

[COLOR=black]Thanks Carnebor, sounds like you and your wife have made your marriage work, and its taken some work to do that. I have tried romantic gifts, walks on the beach, etc. but it hasn't helped us connect on a deep, emotional level. Its not that we don't love each other. We had another long talk last night; we recoginize that we do not have, and may never have had, that spark, that trust, whatever you want to call it, that gives you that "full" feeling inside about a partner. We talked about conversations we've had over the years on this very topic, but we (or perhaps just me) have just been too dense or immature to recognize it. In other respects we're fine, the peripheral stuff. Its the "core" of our relationship that is wanting.[/COLOR]

[Horse]

Guys,

 

My question to you all is, do I stay?

 

Any advice from people who have "been there, done that?" Hope you guys are hanging in there too!

 

If she is willing to try therapy, give it a shot. You don't have much to lose.

 

But.. If you two are basically just friends, then why shouldn't you just be friends? Then you can be free to find someone who really loves you.

[tommyr]

Its not that we don't love each other. We had another long talk last night; we recoginize that we do not have, and may never have had, that spark, that trust, whatever you want to call it, that gives you that "full" feeling inside about a partner. We talked about conversations we've had over the years on this very topic, but we (or perhaps just me) have just been too dense or immature to recognize it. In other respects we're fine, the peripheral stuff. Its the "core" of our relationship that is wanting.

 

Wow. Sounds like WAY too much talk going on and not enough f$@king. This sometimes happens in my house too, and at some point I think you just have to say "enough talk... now let's go have sex"

You want to build intimacy? I can think of no better way than frequent sex!

[car2007]

Wow. Sounds like WAY too much talk going on and not enough f$@king. This sometimes happens in my house too, and at some point I think you just have to say "enough talk... now let's go have sex"

You want to build intimacy? I can think of no better way than frequent sex!

 

You think so? We should make believe we want to have sex with each other even though there are deeper issues to be delt with? I have to say this may be the first time I've heard that you can f*ck your way out of a problem such as we have. But thanks for your advice tommyr, I will consider it as I do all the posts I've read on here.

[whichwayisup]

Get intimate, not only by having sex, but create the intimacy by being closer. Cuddling, holding hands, talking and making out. It always doesn't have to lead to the sex. Show appreciation, consideration for eachother, not only on a physical level but on an emotional level too.

 

If you two want it to work, you both will do all that is necessary to bring your relationship to better level.

[Mr. Lucky]

You think so? We should make believe we want to have sex with each other even though there are deeper issues to be delt with? I have to say this may be the first time I've heard that you can f*ck your way out of a problem such as we have. But thanks for your advice tommyr, I will consider it as I do all the posts I've read on here.

I think it's the old chicken/egg scenario. What tommyr is trying to say is that not all good sexual relationships are bound by good marriages. But, barring extraordinary circumstances, all good marriages are bound by good sexual relationships. And there has to some f$@king involving to have a good sexual relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky