greengoddess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 It's called sarcasm, Einstein (you see I did it again that was sarcastic too, I don't REALLY think you are Einstein) see how that works? WOW THANKS for the education. The appropriate response to that for a normal human with feelings would not be sarcasm but sorrow. A callous non feeling person who could purposely sleep with anothers husband of course would use sarcasm. As someone else said your true colors are showing. I feel sorry for you.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 WOW THANKS for the education. The appropriate response to that for a normal human with feelings would not be sarcasm but sorrow. A callous non feeling person who could purposely sleep with anothers husband of course would use sarcasm. As someone else said your true colors are showing. I feel sorry for you. You've been glued to this thread all day, and clearly you saw when I made the comment about leaving pitty for children at a hospital, because that is truely deserving of pitty. To which WWIU comes back at me with "yeah my best friend's child has cancer" HAPPY NOW? I'm surprised she has time for sarcastic comments herself given the closeness of the sensitive issue at hand, her best friend's child is in the hospital w/ cancer?!? WHO in their right mind would find that remotely amusing, let alone be HAPPY about that? GET A GRIP! Listen, I may have gotten involved with a married man, but I am no Jeffrey Dahmer. EVEN though more than one of you women would LOVE to be able to prove that for your own twisted reasons...yet another excuse to pass the buck
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC, try not to vilify the wife since you can only provide information from the mouth of a MM who has lied to you in the past. Overall, there is a sense of entitlement in your posts. A belief that regardless of legal rights, he's yours by virtue of your mutual love, a love that couldn't possibly be something that he also shares with his wife. The MM might possibly be torn between two women that he apparently "loves". You refuse to believe in the possibility that he could be using the same honeyed words with his wife. Did he move out or was he kicked to the curb? Did he tell you he left or did someone else tell you he left?
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Her true colours are coming out and in all honesty, she doesn't need any help, harshly put or not. Go on humour me what are my true colours....? oh yeh wise one who has a response for every single conundrum on this site... Thankfully when I do need help, you will most definitely NOT be the person I will turn to. I care for opinions from people who actually live their lives, not ones who sit around having opinions on other's lives. I've learned a lot from a lot of ladies on this thread, unfortunately all I learned from you is to simply ignore you. Same goes for GG. Sorry ladies not my cup of tea...
whichwayisup Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 all I learned from you is to simply ignore you Do yourself a favour then...Go to your profile/cp, click on ignore/buddy list and put me on ignore.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC, try not to vilify the wife since you can only provide information from the mouth of a MM who has lied to you in the past. Overall, there is a sense of entitlement in your posts. A belief that regardless of legal rights, he's yours by virtue of your mutual love, a love that couldn't possibly be something that he also shares with his wife. The MM might possibly be torn between two women that he apparently "loves". You refuse to believe in the possibility that he could be using the same honeyed words with his wife. Did he move out or was he kicked to the curb? Did he tell you he left or did someone else tell you he left? Trial - for the umpteenth time, if I felt a sense of "entitlement" for this man I would fight for him I am not fighting for him. I never have. I am also WELL aware that he lied to ME and HER. In that respect we are both on equal field, she and I. I never denied that. He does share something with her I haven't quite figured out what and I possibly never will, but time, and time on my own away from him will let me figure out what this man was all about. should he go back, he was a liar, he was confused, he is no good to me. Should he continue on his road, then we can reconveine when all the dust has settled and we are in a healthy position to carry on. If we really DO love one another destiny will bring our paths together again, I really do believe that! He was not kicked to the curb he moved out on his own, she was asking him to come back after he move out, she kept persisiting and one day she showed up at the place we worked to talk to him to bring him some "treats" to have him come back home. He escorted her out, told her please go home I am not coming back and he went back to his own place later that night .(we were not dating yet) there was no kicking to the curb he moved out willingly. months after he had been living on his own and she kept insisiting to have him come back to work out the marriage, he didn't want to and she had us followed or him and caught us one night out. at THAt point the following weekend after she confronted him, he moved back with her for almost a month...he felt terrible she had found out, in his head he was going to proceed with the seperation and ease her into the idea that they were seperated, she would never find out he had met somoene else (he didn't want to hurt her even more) and then thats how it was going to play out for him But it didn't instead it got real messy and that's that. PS he moved out two moths before we started dating. He called me the day he moved to share the news, I was not impressed...he kept calling me insisting he was doing the right thing etc. I was unfomfortable with the whole thing. But slowly he reeled me in and then I started trusting him all the while he was living on his own. she did not kick him out because the whole time he was out she was trying to get him to come back home. I saw the emails...etc.
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Awesome! The board just got interesting again! Tomcat is not stupid, she is intelligent. She is just hurting & WWIU, you guys are just hurting her more than she's already hurting. You know, most of us BS's didnt know sh*it about infidelity until we experienced it firsthand. We were never born experts at this. Maybe she will just learn it the same way we did, make all the mistakes we did, just the same as we all did. Take a number and get in line. Either way, I think she has alot of valuable information in her posts about her and the MM and, well, quite frankly, he could have been any of our FWS's, talking to his xOW like that. It's such a betrayal because of the intimate nature of affairs. All the I love yous. I dont know what hurts bs worse the sex aspect - or the words he used with ow, and then you remember how he treated you (the BS) so badly, remembering all the fights they started and they way they called you "crazy"... well, she doesn't know all that. And she wont know all that until he betrays her and then what? She's going to need her friends so she doesnt go out and kill him. lol. j/k!
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 RT I'm itelligent but dumb enough to fall for all the deceit, this guy put me through. As per the hurting me more comment, I don't think I can be hurt any more than this guy has, than the whole experience has, than I hurt myself. If threre is one positive thing about this whole experience is that it will only make me stronger. Having said that...I knew as much a about being an OW as many of you knew about affairs. I've talked to proffesionals about this and done a LOT of research on my own, time and time again I find the same patterns described for the reasons for affairs, for the emotions that take place for all involved, for what happens to the OW/OM who crossed the line to become the dreaded OW/OM. The worst part though is the idea that still lingers in my gut that what if this was different, what if there really was a lot of confusion and it was not all one big lie? This is what paralized me from healing for a while, unlike anything I have experienced before. I can assure you that there were other levels to my situation which I am not at liberty to discuss on here publicly, but let's just say that project that brought me together with this man was also used as bait to reel me in. And when the s@#4 hit the fan that was taken away from me too. So the hit was double. So not only were all my romantic hopes and dreams taken away so were my professional ones, my true passion was also taken away. I feel just as cheated as many of you, even though the BS was the REAL victim in all of this, and by no means am I trying to compare my sorroy to hers, but understand that too many things that made sense at the time, no longer make sense. All the doubts all the insecurities that one can imagine to live was lived in one whole experience. And this is why I am no longer with this man, earlier someone asked why if we were so in love were we not togther, because my common sense took over and though a lot of the promises made sense and the words all had justifications the actions left a lot to be desired. Seeing alone how he was leading his W on made me lose respect in him and this is what tore us apart. This is why I sabotaged any chance for us to succeed. It's a very complex situtation that though on one hand makes you feel great it makes you feel terrible knowing that what you are doing goes against your own moral fiber. One because you reach a point where you don't know what's real and what's not. And two because you just get tired of second guessing everything. Given the chance to do this again I would not do it in a million years, regardless of the outcome. And I can honestly say that I did not have to live it to know that it would end this way. I'm just not cut out for this. And RT don't think for a second I can't relate to the "you're crazy"line, it seems to be the favourite for men, when they are caught in something that they just can't back out of.
NoIDidn't Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 The fact that this comment of mine ruffled so many feathers makes me wonder if it's not because I may have hit a nail.... No, its just because its WRONG. Its like saying that the sky is green when everyone else can see that its blue or gray. I don't think it ruffled any feathers at all. There is just no logic behind the "if she took better care of herself, I wouldn't have her H" line, besides that of tooting one's own horn. It would be like her saying to her friends, "If TC was as much woman as I am, H would have stayed with her instead of me". That makes no sense either. That's where this whole competition mindset comes from. And its stupid coming from either side. A MM does what he wants, when he wants (pretty much like the rest of us). He only tells you whatever you need to believe so you won't ask too many questions.
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Which always leads us back to the argument. Why? Just one question? There is no answer to why, of course. Back to the original post I think the most the BS wasnts to do is confront the OW and tell her how much damage the affair has done. Most BS's want to write you a letter telling you off. I think that is probably the thought most on BS's minds. The humiliation (esp in a long term affair or multiple d-day people) have to go through is too TOO much, and thats probably the worst thing you'd probably have to do as a person is to have to confront that truth face to face. I think the OW's role in keeping his infidelity a secret while the two had time to allow it to turn into this heavy relationship is a bad move. It's the deceit that is so constant. It will ruin your character. Also, Why would he make me live a lie? Your home is supposed to be safe and not this prison the WS keeps us in. He makes the OW live a lie too, getting his 'cushy pillow' in place for when he drops the bomb on us and divorce us, am I getting warm? Plus they're looking at it as that is her husband and she has been forced into something she didnt do herself. WE didnt cheat, but the BS get cheated because we were "so bad" and so crazy to live with that they had to leave us But we werent (crazy) bad horrible wives, we were maligned so WS could justify having an affair because they feel too guilty to admit the truth. Its easier to blame the victim and cry wolf. When the lies and smoke clears, the truth is the only dignity a BS could have left. THERE IS NO REASON WHY NOBODY KNOWS THE ANSWERS
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 No, its just because its WRONG. Its like saying that the sky is green when everyone else can see that its blue or gray. I don't think it ruffled any feathers at all. There is just no logic behind the "if she took better care of herself, I wouldn't have her H" line, besides that of tooting one's own horn. It would be like her saying to her friends, "If TC was as much woman as I am, H would have stayed with her instead of me". That makes no sense either. That's where this whole competition mindset comes from. And its stupid coming from either side. A MM does what he wants, when he wants (pretty much like the rest of us). He only tells you whatever you need to believe so you won't ask too many questions. Really, and how are you so certain of all this?
NoIDidn't Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC I could ask you the same. How are you so certain? Affairs are never so cut and dry that you can sum it up as "W didn't take care of herself". First she was neglecting him, then herself. Obviously, this situation wasn't as cut and dry as you are trying to put it down to now. Its not a competition between you and his W. Its not a competition between any OW and the W, unless the MM is successful in creating that idea in the mind of the OW. Of course, he is going to tell you flattering things to you, and non-flattering things about her. I am certain because its just COMMON SENSE.
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 PS It still scares me to this day, how much he planned with the xOW to leave me. What if he does and I'm older and unlovable? Can he ever be trusted again? Is this my legacy? For one I was used and for two, it sucks being the last one to know. I feel like a fool sometimes and it isnt funny. Worse he made me doubt myself and everything that went against my better judgement because I trusted him to be faithful. Of course, Silly SILLY me. Like... "Am I a freaking clown, do I amuse you" ~ Joe Pesci ~
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC I could ask you the same. How are you so certain? Affairs are never so cut and dry that you can sum it up as "W didn't take care of herself". First she was neglecting him, then herself. Obviously, this situation wasn't as cut and dry as you are trying to put it down to now. Its not a competition between you and his W. Its not a competition between any OW and the W, unless the MM is successful in creating that idea in the mind of the OW. Of course, he is going to tell you flattering things to you, and non-flattering things about her. I am certain because its just COMMON SENSE. Interesting on the one hand you tell me my obeservations are WRONG, that every one else sees green while I see grey. On the other you tell Affairs are never cut and dry. Seems to me that what you say is cut and dry and what I say is wrong. LOL I lived my situation, you didn't.
NoIDidn't Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Interesting on the one hand you tell me my obeservations are WRONG, that every one else sees green while I see grey. On the other you tell Affairs are never cut and dry. Seems to me that what you say is cut and dry and what I say is wrong. LOL I lived my situation, you didn't. TC Those were your observations for the way you perceived their M, and based on what he told you. You came here and made a general statement that "every woman can do what you do" which is take care of themselves and that their H's will love them and be faithful to them for it (implied, not said). Don't you see that? I am not talking about your specific situation, and you keep going in and out of making broad, sweeping generalizations and then running back to the safety of the "its my life" statement. Make up your mind. Are you talking only of YOUR situation, or are YOU doing what you accuse the BWs of doing: making generalizations that don't fit ALL situations. Because that is what I see.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 PS It still scares me to this day, how much he planned with the xOW to leave me. What if he does and I'm older and unlovable? Can he ever be trusted again? Is this my legacy? For one I was used and for two, it sucks being the last one to know. I feel like a fool sometimes and it isnt funny. Worse he made me doubt myself and everything that went against my better judgement because I trusted him to be faithful. Of course, Silly SILLY me. Like... "Am I a freaking clown, do I amuse you" ~ Joe Pesci ~ So here we are back again to my original point, why on earth would you take him back? Why on earth would you put trust in him again, why would you set yourself up for more pain? is that not the same question the OW gets asked all the time? And when I asked this it's because I genuinely would like to understand why? And earlier WWIU made some comment like "well the reason she fights it is beacuse if the Ws take their husbands back she has no hope or she loses" or something along those lines....hopes for what exactly? What point is getting back a guy who lied to his W to be with me if he is going to turn around and lie to me too. The only reason I would want him back is if he could prove to me that the mistake he made with his W was exclusive to the dynamic they had. And that could only come in time. He would say things to me like, I have learned to communicate with you like with no one else. He would tell me when he had to meet her, he would tell me when she would contact him, he would tell me when he was doing anything that might inspire insecurities in me, and so I trusted him. I trusted that he handled things horribly with his W but that there was potential for improvement with some one else and if he felt motivated to do so, that some one else being me. (love that joe pesci scene - goodfellas) you don't think I feel used, like I was made the last fool? you bet I do. And I know the famous last words "you knew you were getting into that"Actually NO I didn't I knew I was getting involved with someone that was fresh out of a relationship but I trusted that he was on the path of his separation. you know how many seperate men and women there are out there? how many living for years in the "seperated" state? TONS, and who's to say that we started dating and it didn't work out that we fell out of love, what did it matter to me that he decided to move back home if it didn't work out with me? All the plans that we made together for our future were based on the success of our relationship, not on the success of his divorce. that to me was a given. but when the relationshio got on its way the idea of the divorce started to plague me and that's when all the reality started to set in. And with all due respect RT but you can't say that it's why we'll never know, every case is different every case is unique to it's circumstances. Were you not the one who's H was having the affair while you were expecting your child? I mean c'mon that's inexcusable. what kind of a man turns his back on his wife while she is bearing his child. Granted a million questions could be asked about what made it OK in my situation, but there were no children there was nothing holding them apart other than their own selves. It could very well be that it was a match that should not have happened. people marry for all sorts of reasons OTHER than love. Sometimes people think they are in love, and they haven't even scratched the surface. There are millions of people who have never even been in love. Companionship yes, true passionate love and admiration perhaps not...I dunnow... No one sat us down while we were growing up and told us, here this is what you should feel like and look out for when love comes knocking on your door. We all just learned throught trial and error, we know we experience love given the level of pleasure we experience from what we share with someone else whom we are attracted to. So what IF this particular case was a case where two people eneded together that should not have? that doesn't give me the right to come between that, but HE granted me the right to come between that, the moment he lied to me and assured me it was doen. He made me a part of his world. Of course this does not excuse the stabbing in the back. There is no excuse for that. But that is his issue with her. And I did feel for her I fel for her for what he did to her, but I honestly did not feel responsible for that. I still don't. My issues were with the situation as a whole. Some people just are too cowardly, they do something wrong and to make it better they actually make it worse. At times I feel like this guy got in way over his head, on both counts, on what he was doing to his W and on what he was doing to me. It's funny because we all come on here looking for answers looking to make some sense of it all and yet it doesn't matter how many similarities we can draw up the fact still remains that each and every case was unique in and of it self because each individual who chose to have the affair had thier own set of reasons for doing so. And I'm sorry but there is ALWAYS a reason.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC Those were your observations for the way you perceived their M, and based on what he told you. You came here and made a general statement that "every woman can do what you do" which is take care of themselves and that their H's will love them and be faithful to them for it (implied, not said). Don't you see that? I am not talking about your specific situation, and you keep going in and out of making broad, sweeping generalizations and then running back to the safety of the "its my life" statement. Make up your mind. Are you talking only of YOUR situation, or are YOU doing what you accuse the BWs of doing: making generalizations that don't fit ALL situations. Because that is what I see. Every woman CAN make themselves more attactive, more appealing, more nurturing, more caring, more interesting, more fun to around, more attentive more anything...that was indeed a comment that can apply to all women. The fact that in my particular case HE lacked a lot of those things at home because she no longer cared about appealing to him, and he did find thoe things in me, not because I knew he needed this but because I AM like that, it was reflected back on what I experienced. The point being that what he seemed to lack, could have very easily been fixed had she spent a little less time travelling for work and living out of a suit case and taken some interest in what what was waiting for her at home. This was going to be the MOTHER of his children some day, and it's no wonder that he had hessitations on starting a family with her. Their maid knew more about their home than she did. What he saw in me was the complete opposite of that, and perhaps that was the attraction for him. Bottom line: A guy doesn't move out of his house, get a whole new place, tell his family and freinds and colleagues about his new woman, just to have a sexual fling. That is what all the cowards that stay at home and lead the double life do. He wanted out and saw potential in being out but went about our rel and ending things with his W horribly wrong.
herenow Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 I can't believe this thread is still going strong. I only have one thing left to say. You are right Tomcat it takes a very sexy woman to look good in granny panties. Sorry you can't pull it off. Maybe you should take better care of yourself and you won't have to limit your undergarment choices.
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 The fact that in my particular case HE lacked a lot of those things at home because she no longer cared about appealing to him, and he did find thoe things in me, not because I knew he needed this but because I AM like that, it was reflected back on what I experienced. The point being that what he seemed to lack, could have very easily been fixed had she spent a little less time travelling for work and living out of a suit case and taken some interest in what what was waiting for her at home. This was going to be the MOTHER of his children some day, and it's no wonder that he had hessitations on starting a family with her. Their maid knew more about their home than she did. This part is interesting to me. Was she the primary breadwinner? Also, was this her occupation before they got married?
SoxPrincess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC, You may have mentioned the answer to this question in this thread already or another, but did you know MM's W personally or are you basing your statements about her not tending to his needs, etc solely based on what he has told you? I'm not questioning you and certainly not arguing with you; I just know I believed a lot of the same things you are mentioning but I never knew exMM's W and I've only seen one picture of her, so I'm curious. Our situations are VASTLY different, but this one question I was just curious about I think this thread has been very interesting and it certainly has gotten heated but it's quite intriguing to see the varying sides of the equations!
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 I can't believe this thread is still going strong. I only have one thing left to say. You are right Tomcat it takes a very sexy woman to look good in granny panties. Sorry you can't pull it off. Maybe you should take better care of yourself and you won't have to limit your undergarment choices. Sorry HN I look much better in a thong :-P
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 TC, You may have mentioned the answer to this question in this thread already or another, but did you know MM's W personally or are you basing your statements about her not tending to his needs, etc solely based on what he has told you? I'm not questioning you and certainly not arguing with you; I just know I believed a lot of the same things you are mentioning but I never knew exMM's W and I've only seen one picture of her, so I'm curious. Our situations are VASTLY different, but this one question I was just curious about I think this thread has been very interesting and it certainly has gotten heated but it's quite intriguing to see the varying sides of the equations! Sox don't apologize for asking questions I don't mind at all, in fact I don't mind if people disagreeing with me, that's the nature of this medium, of life. ;-) Mostly what he had told me but then I met his family and they told me some things but in particular from one of his colleagues who knew them well had also made certain comments. And Trial no she was not the main breadwinner at all, he made a lot more money than her she really didn't have to work so hard....
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 And Trial no she was not the main breadwinner at all, he made a lot more money than her she really didn't have to work so hard.... Sounds like she enjoyed her challenging career and he wanted her to stay home and take care of him.
SoxPrincess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Sox don't apologize for asking questions I don't mind at all, in fact I don't mind if people disagreeing with me, that's the nature of this medium, of life. ;-) Mostly what he had told me but then I met his family and they told me some things but in particular from one of his colleagues who knew them well had also made certain comments. Wow, you even met some of his family...and W never found out? I am getting old, I forget how W even found out I took everything exMM told me as gospel and although I did meet and talk to a few of his friends, I quickly learned that THOSE friends were covering his ass and going along with the story he provided for him. As I've said, our situations are vastly different; especially since even though your MM is struggling, he is still living apart from his W, while mine went running back home as soon as we had our DDay.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Sounds like she enjoyed her challenging career and he wanted her to stay home and take care of him. Yes it sounds like that doesn't it. Only problem is she apparently hated the job itself. On a side note, you'd be surprised just HOW many men would like that. I don't think men really enjoy this whole women's lib thing that has happend over the decades and too many women are just taking on too challenging of roles in the workplace and letting their homelife take a back seat. I think this is sort of what happened there and he was not expecting it.
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