I'm wondering...

[Tomcat33]

I strongly recommend you read HappyatLast's post on anohter thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117205&page=4

 

In the least it will give us some insight into what goes on inside the MM's head.

 

My point being, just because two people swore to spend the rest of their lives together at a time where that seemed like the right thing to do does not mean they have to honour this agreement if it means jeaporadizing one's own happiness. Let's face it sometimes people just fall out of love, or worse yet, realise that they were just not as good a match as they thought they were, that true passionate love was never really there on a deep emotional level. And that's not to say that an OW can experience that and a BW doesn't it's just to say that sometimes we fight tooth and nail for something that is just not supposed to be.

 

Take special note in the part about how his OW would not take any crap from him and that just prompted him to try even harder. Sort of backs up my point earlier that if you forgive a cheater, he might just end up losing even more respect for you than he had when he chose to stab you in the back. And don't tell me he respected you because if he did he would have cheated on you. And before someone else puts words in my mouth, I am not putitng any blame on anyone I am just stating the obvious.

 

I can relate to what he is saying because in my case I didn't take my MMs crap, when he would decide to try and do the "right" thing to go back and work on the marriage, I would tell him

""good riddance and good luck"" and go strict no contact. I didn't beg I didn try to talk him out of it I didn't let him see me cry. Only to find him calling me again in week's time because he described being back home like being in a prison. His words not mine.

He never gave his apartment up or move his furniture back so actions do speak pretty loud. If you call that finding a "crack"and weasling my way in...that's a pretty damn big CRACK.

 

As I mentioned earlier I am in strict NC. I just got in and found an email from him asking to see me for a coffee, at my convenience. So much for needing time to himself. Apparently she is still willing to take him back and yet while she is chasing him, he is chasing me. I wish I could talk to her and tell her what is going on, but since he moved out she has changed her number and I have no way of contacting her (I've never spoken to her). But I would love to show her the email, not to hurt her, but to make her realise what a waste of time it is to chase after someone that clearly doesn't care about you NO MATTER what he says.

And I know it's a hard pill to swollow, it really is I would not want that happening to me. But I think that if my H was off for a yr and half developing and EA, moving out dating someone it would not have taken me a 1.5yrs to figure stuff out. Perhaps a little control is not such a bad thing.

Is it control or is it just taking interest in what the hell your man does in all those hours he is away from home?

 

Again I can only speak for my situation, I have no clue what all the situations of the people on LS were.

 

And RT your H was out going to bars while you had just had a baby?

Not sure if I undestood that right?

See that's preciesly just kind of crap I would not stand for in a partner. Perhaps that's why I am still single.

[Blind Illusion]

I have information about the OW that would cause her entire family to disown her/shame her. She's not from this country and although I don't exactly know what she is or what religion she is, I do know that it is absolutely forbidden to have sex before marriage. I don't mean like it is her with some religions, I mean absolute shame brought down upon the family if they ever found out. Sorry but I love knowing that I could totally crush her world if I ever told. They have no idea. Her family knew about her being with him but not about the sex part. I guess her own mother told her multiple times that he would come back to me and not get too attached but she never listened. Guess mother does know best afterall.

 

.

 

I suppose in many instances, the betrayed spouse might have harmful information regarding the OW. I suppose it varies. I haven't finished reading this thread yet (So I don't know if anyone bought up this point) but I would guess this exchange of information could be a two-way street.

 

Many times the OW might have learned a great deal about the BS. Everything from instances of childhood sexual abuse to other indiscretions in adulthood.

 

We could all sing tales, if we so desired but what exactly would that accomplish?

[GreenEyedLady]

BI: Excellent post! You've made a point no one else even thought of...

[SoxPrincess]

In both instances, however, whether you are the BS who has information on the OW/OM or the OW/OM who has information on the BS..unless it is hard concrete proof, you don't know if the WS is spinning tales. exMM has told me a million things about how crazy BW is, how she drinks quite a bit at night and has a serious anxiety disorder, how she puts on the front of a loving wife and caring Mom but behind closed doors that she is bat sh*t crazy and has even physically abused him. Granted, none of this could destroy her world (aside from the abuse part) but nonetheless, I have no idea if any of it is true. I would hope on either side (BS or OW/OM) one would check their facts before making the decision to ruin someones world.

[Trialbyfire]

I would hope on either side (BS or OW/OM) one would check their facts before making the decision to ruin someones world.

I completely agree with this. Make sure your facts are not more lies from the MM, whichever side of the fence you're on.

[Tomcat33]

As for my W perspective, told her I wanted a D back in Sept of last year. She asked me if I would stay if she would change. Her greatest fear, she has told me several times, is that one day I was going to leave her. She and I had fought terribly for the past 10 years or so. We have been married 12. Many unkind words have been thrown back and forth and when I told my mother that I had told W I wanted a D she said everyone was surprised we had waited this long before D. I threw in my mother's comments just to help paint the picture from another viewpoint.

So W changed 180 degrees. She is like a different person. We withdrew from each other years ago but when she was faced with the reality of being on her own she became very scared and has been doing everything she can to make things happy here.

I struggle with the 'staying' part 1) for my son whom I love dearly and 2) because my wife has many medical problems and cannot make it without my really good insurance. Her job also doesn't pay her enough to be self-sufficient. I have asked her repeatedly to find a better paying job which can offer her the level of benefits she needs and she refuses.

This is where the selfishness on my part comes in. When I am not down about staying with her forever I can think clearly and see that my leaving would only be self serving and I am the only one it would benefit. My son said he wants us to stay together and his happiness is more important than mine. Shouldn't it be?

As for my attitude towards W, I am very kind and supportive as a husband should be. Honestly, I am. We do not fight anymore so that stress level in our home is very low, so nice! The truth is I simply do not love this woman but I 'pretend', I guess you would say, and play like things are OK.

It is a confusing period in my life right now and I will just have to be sure I make well thought out choices.

 

This comment was taken from the thread "do we always get what we want" by the WS

 

Why is that every time after a long period of deterioration in a relationship it takes knowing that someone is going to lose their spouse to desperatedly do a 180?

When a man has had enough, and he is ready to move on emotionally the blame is put on the OW for usurping what does not "belong" to her. This is what I mean by WHERE is the W when all this is happening?

When it's too late the solution is revenge on the OW.

 

Look the bottom line is this, and here is an example:

 

my job is exciting and in a field that a lot of people would want to get into given the chance, if I go to work every day and take it for granted and start to slack off I need to at least have enough awareness to accept that if I don't take care of it there are a million other candidates who are more than ready to do the job. Yeah I've put in many good hours for the company, yeah I was very loyal and did my fair bit of hard work for it but as of lately I am realy slacking off. If I slack off and my boss starts looking around just to see what's out there and he finds a candidate that blows him away, what's to say that he won't replace me if I keep up my crap? Should he give me a written warning first? Sure. Should he let me know in advance that my behaviour is unacceptable? Sure! But after a few warnings something's got to give.

Granted in some situations there is no warning, but anyone who has any degree of selfawareness and perception can tell when things are just not as they use to be.

 

Unlike in the job example, there are deep emotions that are to be reckoned with in a marriage. When someone's heart starts to close off because of the constant weardown of the rel, then why should said person FORCE themselves to give the marriage another chance, simply to slavage the commitment they vowed to have for one another?

[herenow]

Why is that every time after a long period of deterioration in a relationship it takes knowing that someone is going to lose their spouse to desperatedly do a 180?

 

First of all, the 180 doesn't happen EVERY time. As a matter of fact in many cases on this forum and in life, the BW makes the decision to end the marriage and the MM is the one that begs her to take him back.

 

I agree that sometimes you don't know what you have until you are at risk of losing it. I don't think there is anything wrong with acknowledging that and changing to make a marriage stronger.

 

Also many times BOTH of partners in the marriage do a 180 to save what they feel is dear to them "their marriage".

 

I don't understand why you feel it's so wrong for two people to give their marriage a second chance.

 

BTW, I feel sorry for both empty906 and his wife. Both of them deserve to have true love and be happy.

[herenow]

And Tomcat, in your work example, if you were a partner in the company with a 50/50 stake (apples to apples right?), yes he would have to legally end the partnership before he could break professional ties with you. He could not just fire you. He would owe it to you (legally and morally) to make that contract void before "hiring" anyone else to take your place.

[whichwayisup]

I don't understand why you feel it's so wrong for two people to give their marriage a second chance.

 

Because if that happens, SHE loses out completely.

[herenow]

Because if that happens, SHE loses out completely.

 

Or because she doesn't put any value on the sanctity of marriage.

 

I would never say that my H's affair was good for our marriage, but it certainly was a wake up call. Some couples fall into a rut and if they do not communicate, an affair can happen. It doesn't mean that they don't love each other, it's means that they need to communicate their problems to each other and not escape into the arms of someone else to get a temporary fix. If the love is still there for both partners, it's worth a second chance.

[whichwayisup]

If the love is still there for both partners, it's worth a second chance.

I agree. And if, by chance, it doesn't workout, atleast BOTH spouses can know they gave it their best shot. That way there's no regrets.

[Tomcat33]

I don't understand why you feel it's so wrong for two people to give their marriage a second chance.

 

I don't feel it's SO wrong when two people truly honestly and wholeheartedly want to put 100% into burrying the hatchet and working on what they want. People do makes mistakes, wakeup calls are meant to put things into prespective for us. There are very few cases where people actually rediscover themselves after an affair and can find happiness again through a LOT of work. I guess that is a personal choice. Do I stick around and take a risk and work my butt off to salvage what I've broken or do I make a clean break and get a fresh start.

 

Personally I don't see the point of staying with someone that disrespected me in such a way. He's going to do it again, because I allowed him to do this to me the first time, I gave him the assurance that I am willing to oirgive the worst thing he could possibly do to me. What else is there after that?

 

Because if that happens, SHE loses out completely.

 

Explain how I lose out completely if YOU decide to stay with your cheating spouse?

[Trialbyfire]

And Tomcat, in your work example, if you were a partner in the company with a 50/50 stake (apples to apples right?), yes he would have to legally end the partnership before he could break professional ties with you. He could not just fire you. He would owe it to you (legally and morally) to make that contract void before "hiring" anyone else to take your place.

Dead on herenow. A marriage is a partnership.

[Tomcat33]

Or because she doesn't put any value on the sanctity of marriage.

 

I would never say that my H's affair was good for our marriage, but it certainly was a wake up call. Some couples fall into a rut and if they do not communicate, an affair can happen. It doesn't mean that they don't love each other, it's means that they need to communicate their problems to each other and not escape into the arms of someone else to get a temporary fix. If the love is still there for both partners, it's worth a second chance.

 

Where were your values for the sanctity of your marriage when you neglected your marriage, your promise to be there for better or for worse?

 

And some couples just don't love each other anymore, they never really did in a "passionate admiration and respect" sort of way, and go into marriage with the idea that with time the bond will grow and it will turn into something deeper and more meaningful, and it never does, it actually turns worse and it becomes nothing more than a routine or comfort and stability but the core of what a human being wants and needs on a deep emotional/intellectual/and pshysical level is NOT being met. And sometimes it takes meeting a person that DOES awaken all these things in us to realize that making a life bond to someone we were not THAT sure of in the first place, was indeed the biggest mistake of our lives.

[greengoddess]

I just don't get it. An OW stating these lofty high standards that the mm disrespected his wife so she could never take him back.

 

Isn't an ow getting disrespected daily from the very beginning of their relationship. Everytime he goes home he is disrespecting them. The bs at least has years of a loving happy relationsip of memories before the old midlife crises hit. The ow has nothing but lies and disrespect and then more lies. No history, no family, no kids just a little secret of stolen moments.

[herenow]

There are very few cases where people actually rediscover themselves after an affair and can find happiness again through a LOT of work.

 

You are completely wrong here. There are MANY cases where a husband and wife have successfully repaired their marriage and are even more happy because of the positive changes they make together.

 

What there are few of are OW that actually marry the MM after he leaves the marriage (what is it 3% or something like that?). And statistically those few marriages have a higher divorce rate than the first marriage did.

[greengoddess]

Where were your values for the sanctity of your marriage when you neglected your marriage, your promise to be there for better or for worse?

 

 

 

You are kidding right? Obviously she believes in the sanctity of marriage and has stuck with it for worse when her marriage had a full out infiltration on it. Stop blaming the wife cause you got burnt by sleeping with a married man. It was your choice.

[Tomcat33]

Dead on herenow. A marriage is a partnership.

 

 

Yeah a marriage is a partnership but if your business partner is letting the business go down the tubes you have your every right to seek out someone who is competent and who will help your business thrive. time is money...right?

[Tomcat33]

You are completely wrong here. There are MANY cases where a husband and wife have successfully repaired their marriage and are even more happy because of the positive changes they make together.

 

What there are few of are OW that actually marry the MM after he leaves the marriage (what is it 3% or something like that?). And statistically those few marriages have a higher divorce rate than the first marriage did.

 

 

Yeah I've read these "stats" a million times on here. And who writes the stats of the happily ever after, when the marriage repairs and survives and affair. I certainly hope it is not the same people who brought us the

there is a 1 in four chance in a marriage that a man cheat and 60% of marriages end in Divroce.

[greengoddess]

Yeah a marriage is a partnership but if your business partner is letting the business go down the tubes you have your every right to seek out someone who is competent and who will help your business thrive. time is money...right?

 

 

Why is it the wife that is letting the marriage go down the tubes not the pos who instead of facing the marriage problems head on just goes and decides to get a piece on the side to build his ego? That is the one letting the marriage and partnership go down the tubes. The one who chooses to use a different vendor.

[Tomcat33]

You are completely wrong here. There are MANY cases where a husband and wife have successfully repaired their marriage and are even more happy because of the positive changes they make together.

 

What there are few of are OW that actually marry the MM after he leaves the marriage (what is it 3% or something like that?). And statistically those few marriages have a higher divorce rate than the first marriage did.

 

 

Yeah I've read these "stats" a million times on here. And who writes the stats of the happily ever after, when the marriage repairs and survives an affair? I certainly hope it is not the same people who brought us the

"there is a 1 in four chance in a marriage that a man will cheat"

and 60% of today's marriages end in divroce.

[herenow]

Where were your values for the sanctity of your marriage when you neglected your marriage, your promise to be there for better or for worse?

 

How many times do I have to admit that I take responsibility for my part in the problems in my marriage? That doesn't mean that I don't value the institution. I didn't have an affair, my H did. You can say that he didn't value the sanctity of our marriage and I would agree with you and so would he. He has accepted 100% responsibility for what he did. He has never blamed the OW or me. It was his choice, it was his mistake, not mine. I WAS there.

 

And, don't be accusing me of blaming the OW, because I have always said that she is irrelevant and not a part of my marriage.

[greengoddess]

Tomcat you are done with your mm relationship right? He disrespected you by moving back in with his wife right? Why don't you just try to move on now and find a single guy instead of arguing points of justification for your affair and why the wife should leave him. He made his choice. He is with his wife.

[Tomcat33]

You are completely wrong here. There are MANY cases where a husband and wife have successfully repaired their marriage and are even more happy because of the positive changes they make together.

 

 

Forgive my next comment but it's just my observation:

 

For a bunch of "happily there after, our marriage is stronger than ever after the affair" the BSs who survived the affair and are now in new found bliss withing their marriages, you do spend an AWFUL long time on LS on the OW boards....

One would think you would be off enjoying your new lovey dubby time with your Hs!?!?

 

Have things REALLY changed for the better?

[herenow]

Yeah a marriage is a partnership but if your business partner is letting the business go down the tubes you have your every right to seek out someone who is competent and who will help your business thrive. time is money...right?

 

You do not have any right to infringe on a legal partnership. There is a contract that prevents it. You do not own the business and you must, according to law, end the partnership before you "seek out" another partner. Simple business law baby!