Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Yes it sounds like that doesn't it. Only problem is she apparently hated the job itself. On a side note, you'd be surprised just HOW many men would like that. I don't think men really enjoy this whole women's lib thing that has happend over the decades and too many women are just taking on too challenging of roles in the workplace and letting their homelife take a back seat. I think this is sort of what happened there and he was not expecting it. No one stays in a job they hate for no reason at all. That would be MM gaslighting... It sounds like you'd enjoy being a SAHM with two kids.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Wow, you even met some of his family...and W never found out? I am getting old, I forget how W even found out I took everything exMM told me as gospel and although I did meet and talk to a few of his friends, I quickly learned that THOSE friends were covering his ass and going along with the story he provided for him. As I've said, our situations are vastly different; especially since even though your MM is struggling, he is still living apart from his W, while mine went running back home as soon as we had our DDay. yeah SOX I spoke to them on several occasions, I'm telling you other than the fact that he was legally still married his life was completely normal with me. HE was in total apppearance a single guy. He introduced me to his friends and colleagues and met his family. The only one that did not know about me was his W because he did not want to hurt her knowing that he ad already moved on. I don't know what his real reasoning was but that is what he told me. So did your guy move out to be with you? And how long was he out with you for? TRIAL Honestly? not a STHM I would still like to work ( at least part time) I have worked all my life and I enjoy what I do plus I like the independence, but I would love to have two kids and be a STHM for the pertinent years yeah I'd love that! I already did the long grulling hours for my profession I am entering another phase in my life... And trust me she hated it until they started giving her all the travel then she liked it. I know this other than from him.
SoxPrincess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 yeah SOX I spoke to them on several occasions, I'm telling you other than the fact that he was legally still married his life was completely normal with me. HE was in total apppearance a single guy. He introduced me to his friends and colleagues and met his family. The only one that did not know about me was his W because he did not want to hurt her knowing that he ad already moved on. I don't know what his real reasoning was but that is what he told me. So did your guy move out to be with you? And how long was he out with you for? Aside from the fact that your MM was technically having an A, I have say that in some regards I respect him for introducing you to family, friends and colleagues. I was a secret and I knew it, yet I never let it affect me enough to where I called it quits..which is unfortunate. I did meet a few of his friends while we were on vacation, but as I mentioned, I think they were "in line" with his story and helped him perpetuate it to keep me from asking too many questions. exMM is either a really good liar or he is truly f*cked up or a lovely combination of both. He, on many occasions before he even knew I existed, spoke of how unhappy he was in his marriage and was just waiting for his children to leave home before he divorced W. Once we got together, he began seeing a therapist who told him, in response to him saying he would leave W when his children were older, "What if you got hit by a truck tomorrow, wouldn't you want to be living your life happily then the way you are living it now?" After seeing his therapist a few more sessions, he decided to tell W he wanted a divorce and he moved out into his own apartment. He continuously told me he did not move out for me, but that he moved out for his own happiness and that no matter what happened in our relationship, he would never move back home. 2 days after DDay, he broke his lease at his apartment and moved back home; so either he never went to a therapist or he had convinced himself he was moving out for him and not for me and in the end, he really did move out for me. I do admit, after months and months of him saying he was leaving, I did pressure him and told him I couldn't be the OW anymore, so I suspect, he only moved out to pacify me. Also, like I said in the other thread you and I have talked on, he is still "out there" as he has posted ad's on swinger sites, still tries to contact me and I've seen his posts on message boards about how miserable he is. I said it before and I'll say it again, even though your MM is struggling, at least he hasn't run back home and it seems like he is trying to sort things out in his head (at least from what you've told us here). Oops, I forgot to add that he lived in his apartment for 5 months before DDay.
greengoddess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Mostly what he had told me but then I met his family and they told me some things but in particular from one of his colleagues who knew them well had also made certain comments. Oh man this just sickens me. He told his wife nothing of you. Probably said thye were drifting apart and he didn't know what he wanted, then left. Then this guy goes and introduces you to all his family and friends unbeknownst to the wife? My god don't you see what a slap in the face that is? How cruel his dishonesty to her was. Oh I'm sure this wife ended up throwing him out. Yea she may have begged him to come back when she first found out but after she got the details that HE not only betrayed her but his whole family did. Wow just wow. How heartless can people be? Move out don't tell the wife on what pretense and then immediately start your new love life parading your new love to family and friends.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Sox a lot of the things you say remind me of my situation. A lot of random things you mention are very much like mine. He assured me he was moving out because he needed to, not because he met me. That is what always bothered me that I didn't want him to do anything out of having met me. That is why when the EA started to take way I ran as quick as I could. He started telling me things about how the rel had been wrong for so many years now and I sincerely wanted no part of being on the receiving end of those thoughts. I recommended he go back and work on what he had, told him to seek couple's councelling and explain to his W what he was feeling /thinking. He did just that but then quit after a short while (as he says it was futile, he really didn't want to save the M) he was not into the therapy at all (according to him) so he put the kibosh on therapy. So as the EA got on its way he started to get really sloppy in calling me while she was in the house or from her cel phone or looking for me online while she was in the room whatever, I told him we have to STOP. I don't want problems. I don't feel comfortable with any of this. It was almost like he WANTED to get caught it's like he wanted to be found out. He was extremely sloppy. There were other things I cant get into here that made his actions VERY public, he never wanted to be descreet about us. this in and of itself lead me to believe that something very wrong must have gone down between them because who in their right mind, if they were juts looking for excitement would be so careless and who would want to hurt someone like that? So I backed off and he came looking for me months later when he moved out and apparently had told her they were through because he no longer loved her. And yeah the introduction thing sure did a number on, I mean what person who is not serious about their intentions would bring in their family and friends into the whole thing? Yeah the whole thing is very crazy, it's very dysfunctional, it's hard to understand unless you get sucked into it. How heartless can people be? Move out don't tell the wife on what pretense and then immediately start your new love life parading your new love to family and friends there was no "parading" there were just introductions along the way once we got together. He was serious about me...
greengoddess Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 And yeah the introduction thing sure did a number on, I mean what person who is not serious about their intentions would bring in their family and friends into the whole thing? Yeah the whole thing is very crazy, it's very dysfunctional, it's hard to understand unless you get sucked into it. there was no "parading" there were just introductions along the way once we got together. He was serious about me... yes he just neglected to tell his WIFE this. What a stand up guy.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 yes he just neglected to tell his WIFE this. What a stand up guy. well this "stand up" guy was being asked to come back home and give the marriage another go. EVEN after him breaking the promise in one month that he would never contact me again and would work on salvaging the relationship. Look I have no clue if he is a stand up guy or not. All I know is what I saw during the time I knew him, and yes he did a lot or rotten things that leave a lot be desired, but I'll never know if he just made a big mistake and mishandled the whole thing or if he really is a creep.
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 There is a top thread on the surviving infidelity site about the lies the WS will tell to the BS, the top three are the WW having her husband arrested and denying her affair in court (and legally getting away with it!) and the other where one BW had been falsely accused of shaking the baby, and the one about having the BW taken care of. The duality crashed my FWS, to the point he couldn't work or function anymore. When we were seperated, I planted a garden. It was something I hadn't done before because my DH had dogs, large male dogs that would eat every bulb and sleep in every bed of dirt and pee on every evergreen until it turned brown. I put pepper in the garden and it didnt help at all, the dogs won. When I had my own place and my sWS couldnt control what I do anymore and I didnt have to worry about a grizzly bear of a dog wrecking my flowers anymore, I rented a tiller and was hard at work when he came over just to tell me how crazy I was and put me down. I'm like, you are having an affair and I'm the crazy one? ooookay... whatever. How much do you want to bet me that he went to the OW that day and made the garden "all about him". I can just hear it now. "Shes crazy! I didn't do anything and she just went off on me!" Of course, the OW would give him a brownie and comfort my sWS and protected him from bat **** crazy me. lol Throw in the divorce fears and add "shes going to go for everything, shes evil!" and you have a volitle concoction of lies that add to more lies, that add to more lies and so on. Later, he apologized about the garden out of the blue, without being asked or cajoled into it. We were driving around town & he saw a community garden and suggested I start a garden (???) and I mean (WTF!!!) and so I said, "well what about all that crazy talk the last time I started a garden?" He said, "maybe I was the crazy one."
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Oh and another thing was is that in order to protect myself, I had to remind myself that he looked like my husband, talked like my husband, but that he wasn't my husband. He was an alien pod-person impersonating my husband. lol
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 RT there is no question the amount of injustices that BSs are put through in order for the WS to cover his dirty little secret. I can only imagine what my guy would say to his W when she wanted to work things out and he didn't. And seeing how unfair it is for the woman who knows she is not going crazy but is always left with that one little spec of doubt that is enough to do her head in. I understand that all too well. I read somewhere something along the lines of when men go through their mid-life crisis there is an actual hormonal change that affects the chemicals in the brain much like a temporary insanity...a short term madness of sorts. Hey who knows it could have even been written by a cheating spouse himself, a member of the ol'boys club himself, just to cover his ass all men's asses who were in cheating situations.... Ok no, it was an official article that discussed the psychology behind the mid life crisis in men. After reading a lot on this and hearing about the different cases I can only imagine that something along those lines must happen to these men because otherwise I find it really hard to believe that there are so many messed up evil familiy guys out there looking to harm their women...it's just unfathomable, to me at least.
woe_is_me Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 i didn't like MM when i rang him to tell him i bought a new cordless phone ...he said to me "well thats pretty f.....n stupid isnt it" ..because he'd given me one ... i didn't want it though! I told him that! I just thought to myself..'you're a pig i'm glad i'm not your wife' I gave that phone away why would i want something that had vibes from a different life all through it...? I'm the sentimentalist..whereas he obviously isnt ..
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 otherwise I find it really hard to believe that there are so many messed up evil familiy guys out there looking to harm their women...it's just unfathomable, to me at least. That's because most of these men are incredibly selfish. Most aren't looking at it from any other perspective but their own. For example, MM slips up and the wife notices something strange and asks him about it. He lies to cover (not to deliberately hurt her) but because he has to cover, according to his own agenda. The wife still doesn't feel it's right and asks again on another day. He lies to cover and tells a different story. End result, she knows it's a lie and starts to pursue the truth. This is usually the point where things get cruel. The accusations of "not right in the head", etc. Caught with his pants around his ankles, MM has to continue to cover so he pulls out the heavy artillary of offensive action. The compounding of the string of lies. Everyone is a peripheral to him, including the OW who he probably goes to after confrontations like this and fabricates more lies about the injustices. If you notice the pattern, it's about him with no concern for others. His main focus is him, he has to cover and gets caught up in his own strange need to keep up the pretense.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 That's because most of these men are incredibly selfish. Most aren't looking at it from any other perspective but their own. For example, MM slips up and the wife notices something strange and asks him about it. He lies to cover (not to deliberately hurt her) but because he has to cover, according to his own agenda. The wife still doesn't feel it's right and asks again on another day. He lies to cover and tells a different story. End result, she knows it's a lie and starts to pursue the truth. This is usually the point where things get cruel. The accusations of "not right in the head", etc. Caught with his pants around his ankles, MM has to continue to cover so he pulls out the heavy artillary of offensive action. The compounding of the string of lies. Everyone is a peripheral to him, including the OW who he probably goes to after confrontations like this and fabricates more lies about the injustices. If you notice the pattern, it's about him with no concern for others. His main focus is him, he has to cover and gets caught up in his own strange need to keep up the pretense. understood! In my particular case if there is thing that I can say about him is that he never bad mouthed her, he never told me about any of their fights, never spoke about her like she was evil like she was a bitch a nag whatever.. EVER. This is why I also grew to trust him because he seemed loyal in that sense not to let me in to their world, to their intimacy. Yes he told me things in passing about her upbringing and things that affected his guilt towards her etc. but never went into too much detail. It was enough to let me have a general idea of what the consensus was but not enough to say that he spoke to me ABOUT her or shared their intimate things. What he did tell me was about problems with their relationship, he never rarely himself from the equation, he never said SHE did this SHE did that. He always managed to share little insights into their rel but without accusing her directly. Is this respectable in the grand scheme of things? probably not. did this help me trust him, you bet it did. Was he really that good with his words and his tactics and his strategies, I dunnow...? call me gullible but I can't imagine a person who would scheme up so many techniques just to get into another woman's pants. It really seems like so much drama for the final product, when there are so many more women out there who could have easily filled those shoes if it were just about sex..it would have been a lot let hassle than it was to get involved with me. I didn't make anything easy for him.
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 understood! In my particular case if there is thing that I can say about him is that he never bad mouthed her, he never told me about any of their fights, never spoke about her like she was evil like she was a bitch a nag whatever.. EVER. This is why I also grew to trust him because he seemed loyal in that sense not to let me in to their world, to their intimacy. Yes he told me things in passing about her upbringing and things that affected his guilt towards her etc. but never went into too much detail. It was enough to let me have a general idea of what the consensus was but not enough to say that he spoke to me ABOUT her or shared their intimate things. What he did tell me was about problems with their relationship, he never rarely himself from the equation, he never said SHE did this SHE did that. He always managed to share little insights into their rel but without accusing her directly. Is this respectable in the grand scheme of things? probably not. did this help me trust him, you bet it did. Was he really that good with his words and his tactics and his strategies, I dunnow...? call me gullible but I can't imagine a person who would scheme up so many techniques just to get into another woman's pants. It really seems like so much drama for the final product, when there are so many more women out there who could have easily filled those shoes if it were just about sex..it would have been a lot let hassle than it was to get involved with me. I didn't make anything easy for him. Do you know the management technique about never openly accusing anyone directly, you target the "flawed" situation?
herenow Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Wow, still going! Coming here with a fresh mind, having not thought about this for a bit, I see something that I didn't see yesterday. Forgive me if someone already mentioned this. I think this guy is in it for the love of the chase. Tomcat keeps saying that he comes after her and she won't give him what he wants. In her last post she said she didn't make it easy for him and if it was about sex, there are many other woman who could fill that roll. After all I have read, I think this is only about his ego and not about Tomcat or his wife at all. Getting something that comes easy would not feed his ego as much as something he has to work for. Keep playing hard to get Tomcat, that may be the only way to keep this man in your life.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Do you know the management technique about never openly accusing anyone directly, you target the "flawed" situation? Had not heard the term, but is that a bad thing?
herenow Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Had not heard the term, but is that a bad thing? Not if you think manipulation is a good thing.
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Had not heard the term, but is that a bad thing? The end result is the same thing as openly accusing someone without the confrontation if the person is present or if the person is not present, makes the accuser look better to whom ever they choose to tell the story to. It's a "user" technique. I've heard enough vicious rants from peers about the incompetency of so and so behind closed doors, then when it's carpet calling time, they use this technique to get more out of the accused and to look like the "good guy" in front of others. Most people fall like pins for it.
herenow Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Wow, still going! Coming here with a fresh mind, having not thought about this for a bit, I see something that I didn't see yesterday. Forgive me if someone already mentioned this. I think this guy is in it for the love of the chase. Tomcat keeps saying that he comes after her and she won't give him what he wants. In her last post she said she didn't make it easy for him and if it was about sex, there are many other woman who could fill that roll. After all I have read, I think this is only about his ego and not about Tomcat or his wife at all. Getting something that comes easy would not feed his ego as much as something he has to work for. Keep playing hard to get Tomcat, that may be the only way to keep this man in your life. In addition to thinking that this MM is just in love with the chase and TC is playing hard to get, I also think that this MM is jealous of his wife's successful career. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her work. It's possible that MM has found someone inferior to his wife and himself in Tomcat. Being with her make him feel superior and once again feeds his ego.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Not if you think manipulation is a good thing. Oh gimme a break, so basically there is no winning here there is nothing he could have done within all the wrong that he did to be even a little bit less of a prick. So you mean to tell me YOU being the BS and your H being the one saying these words: "My W is psycho she flips out on me over everything, she shouts to get things through to me then hours after the fact we make make up and she wants to show me affection and it turns my stomach because all I could envision is how ugly her face gets as she screams at me telling me I picked up the wrong kind of r peppers for dinner, basically I can do no right." OR saying: My W and I argue about trivial stuff and it feels like I could do no right and it really pushes me away. Is no different to you at all, in other words it's the same to you whether he put it one way or the other? It's a "user" technique. I've heard enough vicious rants from peers about the incompetency of so and so behind closed doors, then when it's carpet calling time, they use this technique to get more out of the accused and to look like the "good guy" in front of others. Most people fall like pins for it. Yeah its' called being non-confrontational. I'm sure you've had incompetent people you've had to work with, that were equal in position to yours (for the purpose of our analogy) after confronting them yourself, did they actually improve their slacking off? Or is it more effective to have a superior give them a shake up?
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Could you explain your point a little better? It doesn't appear to have any bearing to what I mentioned unless you're trying to wrap tags of nonconfrontational around manipulative.
Tomcat33 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Wow, still going! Coming here with a fresh mind, having not thought about this for a bit, I see something that I didn't see yesterday. Forgive me if someone already mentioned this. I think this guy is in it for the love of the chase. Tomcat keeps saying that he comes after her and she won't give him what he wants. In her last post she said she didn't make it easy for him and if it was about sex, there are many other woman who could fill that roll. After all I have read, I think this is only about his ego and not about Tomcat or his wife at all. Getting something that comes easy would not feed his ego as much as something he has to work for. Keep playing hard to get Tomcat, that may be the only way to keep this man in your life. In addition to thinking that this MM is just in love with the chase and TC is playing hard to get, I also think that this MM is jealous of his wife's successful career. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her work. After all I have read, I think this is only about his ego and not about Tomcat or his wife at all. Getting something that comes easy would not feed his ego as much as something he has to work for. Keep playing hard to get Tomcat, that may be the only way to keep this man in your life. In addition to thinking that this MM is just in love with the chase and TC is playing hard to get, I also think that this MM is jealous of his wife's successful career. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her work. It's possible that MM has found someone inferior to his wife and himself in Tomcat. Being with her make him feel superior and once again feeds his ego. Everyone is a FREUD! LOL If he's in it just for the thrill of the chase, why would he come after me when he has plenty of chasing to do at home? You can't be more hard to get than being off on business trips, weeks, months, at a time..... I'm not "playing" hard to get. I am not playing anything. I have always BEEN hard to get, I don't give easily to men. There is a lot of emphasis on her work because it is the one thing that she chose over him and she is not even happy doing that job. But you couldn't fathom that thought because to you, the W could do no wrong. Everything a woman does is right and a man should deal with it, because I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR! pffft. lol It's possible that MM has found someone inferior to his wife and himself in Tomcat. Being with her make him feel superior and once again feeds his ego Thank you for the insult, it makes your point far more valid knowing that the only way you feel you can get to me (for whatever has enraged you about me and MY situation) is to resort to cheap insults. To counter your last sentinment, or it's possible that he met a smart successful woman who knows how to balance her career and her personal life, and still has time to look good and to take the time to be interested in him and his interests. Anything is possible in this thing called life.
Trialbyfire Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Are you suggesting we blow this popsicle stand?
Izzar Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Are you suggesting we blow this popsicle stand? Actually, I am very entertained here. So keep on...
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