sweetbutcheeky Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Well I thought about my problem I posted about last and this was the result. (last thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t117424) Not sure what to do or think now. I see a definite prospect in this guy except for the problem below. The guy I am dating is almost always late (I mean hours) and I emailed him about it. (I am better on paper to get things out - no one to cut you off and don't forget your point) Anyway here is the email I sent him: I had a nice time with you last night, hope you enjoyed yourself as well. Today though I have been thinking about something that sticks out to me that I can't ignore anyone because it's been happening a lot. You have been late and I mean hours late for our last 3 dates at least but they aren't the only ones. And when your late you don't call me for hours to let me know why your late and how long you will be. I find both really disrespectful and doesn't make me feel good when you do this to me. I know I haven't said anything before because each time there is a reason which makes sense at the time and I have you the benefit of the doubt, but there are so many times it can happen and just be a fluke. When you don't show, don't call and then show up still wanting to go on liked planned it makes me feel like it doesn't matter to you that I have been waiting hours (because I got ready so that I would be on time) and doesn't matter to you that I don't know when or if your coming. Since we have been dating for over 3 months I think, I have been thinking about if your someone I would want to be with, if I could see you as my boyfriend. (I know we haven't talked about it so I haven't assumed anything) On the most part there are many things that I see in you that I have been looking for and have felt good about that. And when we are together it has made me forget the things that have bothered me, but that's not working anymore. Last night even though I did have a good time it wasn't enough because it's how I felt while waiting for you that sticks out more to me than the time together. I feel taken for granted and disrespected and I deserve better than that. I know this is a lot because I haven't said anything before, I let it go (well did ask you a few times why you didn't call). But couldn't let it roll off my back anymore. His email back: Hmmmmm Ok your not going to like this but it is the truth... I have always been late I have a horrible time gaging time I can't tell you how many jobs my lateness has caused me! and then I know some times I am late and it makes me feel guilty so I try to hurry to where ever I got to get too... I don't do it as a sign of disrespect and it is not something I do in one situation from grade school to current date I am really bad with time... I have done my best to do something about it and some times it feels like I am fighting a losing battle. So I apologize for that kind for that it was not my intention to make you feel like that I am genuinely sorry... you are right I should have called... and I under stand that is rude of me to do sorry Then my response: While learning about you I have caught on and noticed being late (not a planner) was part of your personality, so in the back of my mind knew it wasn't intentional. But doesn't make it any better. I'm not perfect I am late sometimes, 5 - 10 mins. Though for a date, that is one of the times I want to do my best out of respect (and to impress). Though you have been 2 - 3 hours late. From my perspective what do you think that I should be thinking? If you were me would you want to be with someone who you couldn't depend on to be there on time when you plan to see each other?
whichwayisup Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 What if he makes the effort to CALL you if he is gonna be late? That, he should be able to do. To be honest, his late issues go way back and it seems it could have more to do with avoiding responsibility and being accountable for himself. Atleast he's being honest with you! Okay, it all depends on how much you like him and if you can accept him for his faults. AS LONG AS he tries and makes effort - and makes up for him being late...Also, you're gonna have to not let it piss you off. Work around it. If you have a set time, either be prepared to wait, or you start showing up late so compensate his lateness...lol boy that reads weird eh?
fallendisguise Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I could understand maybe 1/2 hour to an hour late if he has such a horrible time keeping track of time every once in awhile. Maybe he underestimated how long it would take him to get home, get ready, and get there by a certain time. That could be understandable, but he should still call. Say "hey I'm running behind but I'm trying to get there ASAP and I'm sorry to keep you waiting." But the fact that he's that many hours late and doesn't call is not acceptable, especially when it's a constant thing. Not only that, but he doesn't really explain why he is so late. He can't manage time? Then buy a watch. One with a timer on it. Lol. Not only doesn't he say exactly what it is that causes him to be incapable of managing time, but he doesn't really say anything about fixing that inability (at least with you.) I don't mean to be a pessimist, but that's crap. If he wants to spend time with you and enjoys spending time with you, then why not make every effort possible to be there on time and spend as much time with you as he can? And by that statement, I don't mean that he doesn't want to spend time with you because he is so late. It just isn't fair to you, especially when you make the effort to be on time. Maybe when you talk to him next time ask him if he thinks there is anything he can do to be on time. If he's making plans before he sees you, maybe he shouldn't anymore or cut it short. If he doesn't make the effort still to be on time, then I don't think you should waste yours. It's not fair to you and it is very disrespectful, even if this guy does have some weird psychological disorder with time. I think if you stick around and he doesn't make the effort and continues to be so late, it's just going to make you feel worse. Just my opinion.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 I think he got a little defensive and expected me to accept this fact straight away or something before I had a chance to think about how I feel. His message: Well If thats the way you feel I am not going to argue with you I at the end of the day when everybody is gone home I am still stuck with me so I am used to it... I don't like it sometimes but one has to be comfortable in own skin... I apologized and if you are still feeling that way it is out of my hands... I am sorry like I said before but I have to remain truthful to my self you could have said something a long time ago that way you would have known what to expect.. instead of blowing up on me after allowing me to think everything was ok My response: No one is blowing up at you at all, just was more serious than usual. As I said each time there was a reason why you were late so I left it at that, I'm not one to over exaggerate because someone is late once or twice. Wasn't going to jump all over you cause there was a reason. I am saying something now just because they all added up. Things are good except for that issue. I know you apologized and I appreciate that. But still remains that you pretty much said it's to be expected in the future, so I haven't figured out how I think or feel about that yet. So I was asking you how you would feel if things were reversed. I know you said you have tried before and almost given up but do you think next time we make plans to try extra hard and call if there is a problem? Ugh
fallendisguise Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I really don't care for his response. It's like he's saying, "well this is the way I am, either accept it or don't." That's not fair to you. He could at least explain why he has the problem and then ask if that's something you can accept. I think you've explained yourself really well to him and it doesn't seem like you blew up at him or overexaggerated at all. So yeah, he does sound defensive. Asking him to at least make the effort to call you if it's going to happen again is good. Maybe this is something that is going to take baby steps to make it work out, but I think as time goes on you do need to ask him if this is something he can possibly fix or make better with you if you decide to continue this. I think it's just something that you are going to have to decide if you are willing to put up with if it happens again and if you are willing to make the effort to help him overcome it if it is indeed some type of disorder. If it is a disorder, then it's not going to magically dissappear, but I would find out first and if it is and he is someone you want to be with, maybe approach it as something you both are working on to overcome so he doesn't get defensive over it again.
whichwayisup Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Well If thats the way you feel I am not going to argue with you I at the end of the day when everybody is gone home I am still stuck with me so I am used to it... I don't like it sometimes but one has to be comfortable in own skin... I apologized and if you are still feeling that way it is out of my hands... I am sorry like I said before but I have to remain truthful to my self you could have said something a long time ago that way you would have known what to expect.. instead of blowing up on me after allowing me to think everything was ok This screams "I am who I am and I ain't even gonna bother making ANY attempts to change or make an effort" and "I AM SELFISH." "THIS IS ME, take it or leave it." What an A-hole! He is a selfish and narcissistic person, and has no intention of changing his ways. Yuk!
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 fallendisguise thanks for what you said about his response and how I worded my messages to him. I didn't think I was attacking or anything like that, the reason I hadn't said anything before because it wasn't every time and I'm not one to over react, but has bothered me more cause was the last 3 in a row and got me thinking about how many he has been late for. Will see how he responds. I know Dr.Phill (yes I am quoting Dr.Phill lol) says that people who are late have an opinion that they are more important than everyone else and they can wait. Not sure I believe that cause for example in this case I think he doesn't manage his time, organize and keep track of anything. He does have watches and so on so that's not a problem. Not sure why it's not something he can change, set alarms and so on like everyone else. I didn't like his response either, I did get that take it or leave it feeling. After I took breath and let it go and took it as he was feeling bad felt defensive because of it. I know I didn't attack at all.
fallendisguise Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and I'm sure as time goes on you'll be able to figure out what the actual deal is with him/his problem and make the decision that is best for you. Hey, Dr. Phil is a smart man.. that's why he's Dr. Phil.. lol. I would quote him too! One last thing... Yes, no one is perfect. Thank goodness because they'd make the rest of us look bad.. lol. But it is a dealbreaker when it is something that you are not happy with, aren't ever going to be happy with, and the other person isn't willing to compromise/fix it. At least that's what it means to me.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 One last thing... Yes, no one is perfect. Thank goodness because they'd make the rest of us look bad.. lol. But it is a dealbreaker when it is something that you are not happy with, aren't ever going to be happy with, and the other person isn't willing to compromise/fix it. At least that's what it means to me. Thing is other than disrespect and so on Monday for example we were supposed to have the afternoon together and privacy at my place. Because of it we lost the change to hang out here and had less time to spend together which doesn't work for anyone! I don't expect anyone to be perfect, lord knows I'm not but if you loose the afternoon/chance to even have the date it kinda looses the point of dating! I hope it's something he is willing to work on ... will see.
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Sounds like typical passive aggressive behavior to me. Not something easily changed in a person. I'm afraid that dating this guy means that you will have to accept his behavior, because it isn't likely to change.
Walk Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I'm kind of worried about the way you choose to communicate your problem with him. Email is the most impersonal, most easily mis-interpreted means of communicating. I do think he got defensive, but I'm not sure I blame the guy. When you're emotionally involved with someone, criticism is hard to take... It's even harder when you don't have the physical messages to soften the blow. No touching his arm while you said it, no facial expressions to convey that you're serious but not pissed, no tone of voice to convey the feeling behind the words.... And after 3 months of dating... you owed him at least a phone call instead of an email. Both of you should be able to discuss your problems with each other verbally. Emails, and letters, should be saved for when communication breaks down. Not a first line of attack. I think it's unfair of the posters to judge the man as a narcissist, or selfish a-hole. Take a step back and really think about how you would feel if the person you loved couldn't even attempt to talk to you in person or at the very least on the phone. How would you feel if you suddenly got a long email loaded with all these problems that the person you trusted to be honest with you had hidden for months. And they couldn't even say it to your face. I think you handled it poorly. I think his reponse was a result of it. You haven't offered him a comprimise.
Tony T Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 The guy has straight up told you his lateness has cost him many jobs. So is that somebody you would consider a potential mate? Do you want to go through life with that kind of insecurity? People often forget the purpose of dating. It's to have fun and, for many, find a good mate. You're not having fun and this guy would be a rotten mate. So what's the problem? I don't blame him for being late...that's just the way he is. The blame has to be with other people who put up with it and don't have the nerve to cut him loose. "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars but in ourselves." - William Shakespeare
corazoncito Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 The guy has straight up told you his lateness has cost him many jobs. So is that somebody you would consider a potential mate? Do you want to go through life with that kind of insecurity? I totally agree with Tony T. The comment about losing jobs was a big red flag for me. I don't think the guy is a jerk for telling you that he's not going to change. He's being honest and he has the right to be however he wants to be. You have the right to say "thanks but no thanks" and move on. Be glad he's doing it up front. I dated a guy like this who always apologized and said he'd be on time next time, call me, etc. Never happened. And you/Dr. Phil are totally right that many people who are chronically late think that their time is more important than that of others. My ex was a very nice person, and I honestly think he didn't see that he was doing this, but this behavior spilled over into other parts of our relationship. He expected me to do lots of extra stuff for him because "he was really busy" or "felt stressed out with his work", etc. And he never reciprocated. People often forget the purpose of dating. It's to have fun and, for many, find a good mate. You're not having fun and this guy would be a rotten mate. So what's the problem? Three months is a good point to stop and evaluate if you are happy with the relationship. This guy doesn't seem to have much relationship potential for you and the lateness really bothers you. You'd be totally justified in saying this just isn't working.
bella_girl Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 i used to date a guy who could be really late and who would change plans on me at the last minute and expect me to be ok to get there in 10mins and I would keep like an afternoon free to 'hang out' and then be left sitting at home feeling stupid. I can't say that I dealt with it very successfully and we are not together. I don't think being late means that they person thinks they are necessarily more important than other people but he may not be valuing spending time with you above the other stuff that he values and spends time on. That's how I felt when I was dating this guy that I was equal to work, friends etc... When we were together everything would be great and he'd sort of remember how great we were, that's what made it hard because being together was lovely. Having thought more about the situation since we stopped seeing each other my suggestion now would be to put stuff back on him. Say 'ok I can accept your lateness and that its something you can't change. I'd really love to hang out why don't you let me know next time your free' and get him to organise stuff. Then go out and be busy and don't sit by the phone waiting for him to do something just get busy and then when he calls to get together make sure its ok with your schedule, don't change it to suit him, and then see how everything goes. And don't be spiteful and turn up late to give him a taste of his medicine as it wont work and he'll think its petty or he just wont get it. But rather than you be available for him all the time make him do some of the work. Also let him know that you're willing to wait 30mins for him (or whatever you're comfortable with) and then after that if he doesn't show at the scheduled time you're going to do something else. AND importantly go and do something else, so if he calls later and says 'hey you're not at the restaurant' you can say 'no I waited the 30mins but then I left to go meet X or buy some shoes or sort my finances whatever you want to do'. Make sure he knows that you have important things to do with your time as well and back up your words with actions.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 I'm kind of worried about the way you choose to communicate your problem with him. How would you feel if you suddenly got a long email loaded with all these problems that the person you trusted to be honest with you had hidden for months. As I told him I hadn't been hiding anything for months, it just got to a point where it happened again and it bothered me and got me thinking about how much it had been happening. I called him first and let him know there was something I needed to talk about but needed to email him (like I said above) because I won't forget the important pieces of information I want to get across and I won't be interrupted. I don't feel there was a communication breakdown, I think he just got a little defensive when I didn't say ok that's fine right away after he explained. I did tell him that if he called and tried his best that I could try and work around it. (tell him I want to meet and 12 when I want to meet at 1, leave late so I won't be waiting, call him to make sure he remember and so on)
bab Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I think you should just always give him 15 minutes, and if he isn't there, the date for the evening is off. Then maybe he'll get the message that your time is also valuable.
justpassingthrough Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 His email back: Hmmmmm Ok your not going to like this but it is the truth... I have always been late I have a horrible time gaging time I can't tell you how many jobs my lateness has caused me! Oh PUHLEEZE! It is not hard to guage time. This is simply his way of telling you - in exactly as many words - that he is the way he is and you will either have to deal with it or not. Boundaries. Time to set boundaries....
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 19, 2007 Author Posted April 19, 2007 I don't really understand how it's that hard to guage time, little here or there but any more than a half hour I dunno. Obviously this is the only info you have on his so it doesn't look good. There are a lot of good things about his that I respect and give him credit for. If I do decide to work on this issue I guess though it still remains that be it me or anyone who is waiting for him, their valueable time is taken for granted (on purpose or not). I don't like that it's not respecting my time never mind that it cuts our time together short and so on. I haven't heard back yet, I would like to know his response to my last message but I don't regret bringing it up or anything that I said.
Walk Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 I called him first and let him know there was something I needed to talk about but needed to email him (like I said above) because I won't forget the important pieces of information I want to get across and I won't be interrupted. I don't feel there was a communication breakdown, I think he just got a little defensive when I didn't say ok that's fine right away after he explained. I haven't heard back yet, I would like to know his response to my last message but I don't regret bringing it up or anything that I said. I still think emailing him was a really bad idea. Not that he didn't deserve it, and I think you did need to address the issue... but I think email was a bad way to go. I think if you can't talk face to face with your bf about a problem, then maybe the relationship has more problems then just him being late. If you can't talk to him without getting cut off, or having him derail the conversation, then how well are the two of you going to communiate about important stuff? Up to you though... just voicing an opinion is all. I've seen way too many people create massive miscommunication through emailing and letters, when a simple face-to-face conversation (or phone call) could have cleared the air more effectively.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted April 19, 2007 Author Posted April 19, 2007 He doesn't live that close by so it would be the weekend before I see him. It wasn't that I thought he would cut me off or that I thought we couldn't talk about it in person, I just didn't want to loose my train of thought. Anyway your entitled to you opinion. We met online so aren't strangers to chatting online. Anyway he called me twice since I posted the message and he isn't mad, was as I though he just got defensive. He said he would work on it and call if was going to be late, so will see how it goes.
DanielMadr Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 OP, You are roasting him like a roastbeef. Arent you a high school teacher?
moman Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 As a habitually late person, I can understand him a bit. It doesn't seem to matter what I do, I am always late for work, appointments, etc WITH ONE MAJOR CAVAET: if it's important to me, REALLY important, I will be on time. Work isn't that important. Dates are sometimes, but sometimes not. I never recall being over 30 minutes late and I would consider 1-2 hours out of bounds. Here's what you do next time - hard as it may be. Tell him you'll meet him out somewhere, and then if he's late by 20-30 minutes leave. Don't answer your phone when he gets there and looks for you. Next time you talk to him, just tell him that you won't wait anymore. If that doesn't cure the trick, lose him.
Island Girl Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 This is a deal breaker. Just because it is "natural" for him to be inconsiderate (extremely so!) doesn't excuse it. It is hurtful and disrespectful -- hence being a deal breaker. The only reason he continues to do it is because people put up with it Don't be one of them. Give him the kiss-off as quickly as possible
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