Is this a dead-end trip for me?

[windchimes]

Please offer advice.

 

I am late-30s, female, divorced for 6 years, successful, and frustrated with the dating scene.

 

About 2.5 years ago, my 8 yr old daughter met a friend at school. The friend’s mom and dad were divorced (have been divorced for 4 years, dad initiated separation and divorce – mom was devastated). The mom and I met and since she was fairly new to my immediate area, I offered her advice and some initial emotional support. It became immediately apparent that she had some serious emotional problems and her sad moods/constant complaining were dragging me down, so I pulled away and never socialized with her. We never did form a friendship.

 

I started inviting her daughter over to play very regularly and she began to rely on me for childcare support.

 

I just couldn’t be friends with her, but I wanted to help her with her child. She kept telling me how hard it was for her to be a single mom, etc. She never invited my daughter over or out. She said her life was a disaster, she was depressed, she couldn’t handle it, etc. She tells this story to anyone who listens and she’ll tell you every time she sees you. Once I realized that this was her constant mood, I just had to stop talking to her. I could go on about her issues, but the point of this is not about her and her personality.

 

The father had/has the daughter on weekends, so I met him and started to see him at all of the class birthday parties, social events, etc. He is the opposite if his ex wife. He’s the guy with the constant smile and lots of laughs. Once he realized how much time his daughter was spending at my home, he began to reciprocate by asking me if he could take my daughter out with him and his daughter on the weekends. I agreed and appreciated the favor.

 

Eventually, he and I started to share some of the responsibilities of getting our daughters here and there. He’d take them to an event and I’d pick them up, etc. (similar to what 2 moms might do)…and, eventually, he and I started to do some things together with the kids….which even included a vacation, but we stayed in different hotels. And I started to “notice” him, and he started to notice me. He really isn’t my “type” physically. But, I spent enough time around him to see his awesome personality and his unusual kindness…..and my heart started to flutter

 

Eventually, we started to talk on the phone and found that we have an unusual amount of things in common. He seems to be the guy I thought only existed in my dreams and I had given up on finding. When we talked about hobbies, his matched mine exactly (and mine are pretty unique!!). We talked about places we want to travel…and, again, my places are very unique and exotic (mostly places people have not heard of). As we both named our places, the phone got silent because he was naming the places I thought nobody but me wanted to see…and I was doing the same. The connection is just unreal….it feels like we were part of one energy source many, many lifetimes ago…and now we’re reconnected and the pull is incredible. So, our conversations go on for hours and hours…and neither one of us are sleeping much these days.

 

Of course, there’s the issue: his ex…and our daughters. I can only see him when my daughter is asleep or not at home…..since my daughter only knows him as her friend’s dad.

 

Sadly, I’m starting to feel like this is a dead-end situation unless he ever tells his ex about us. I am not interested in sneaking around with him. I am an adult and I am not married, nor do I have interest in a man who is not 100% available to me. I am ready for a real relationship, not something half-baked.

 

I feel trapped between wanting to protect my own feelings and future by asking him about his intentions with his ex….while also feeling like I should not over-analyze things at this point. It is still early in our connection. So, one side of my mind says “why worry about the future if things might not even work out?”….but the other side of me knows that when you ignore what you see ahead, you can find yourself wondering how you got there and why you were so stupid. I’ve very casually mentioned it to him and he has responded with “we’ll just play it by ear”. In my skeptical mind, that translates to, “let’s just have sex and I’ll probably be done with you before I need to worry about my ex wife

 

Now, of course, this kind-hearted guy has never done or said anything that makes me feel like he’s a user or a jerk like that…..but I feel like I’m on a train and I don’t know where it is going or if I will like the destination!! Then again, what do I expect him to say. Surely, I would NOT expect him to tell her about us now.

 

I’m not sure what I want him to say or do right now -- except continue being this great guy. I guess I am just wondering if this situation seems really wrong or if anyone else thinks I should be heeding the red flags. What do you all think? It feel so complex to me!

[dropdeadlegs]

Even with as much info as your post gave, it is still difficult for me to advise you. I may be totally misunderstanding, but it sounds like you have entered into a Friends With Benefits (FWB) relationship. Please correct my misunderstanding(s) of the situation, but this is what I am understanding.

 

You spend time together with the children often. You have (or are considering) sexual relations, but only when the children will not be aware of this. Thus far you have not spent time alone together with the exception of lengthy phone conversations and (maybe) having sex.

 

That sounds like FWB to me. Is it a dead end street? Hard to say. Some FWB relationships evolve into something more. I am inclined to think that if a man doesn't want anything more than friendly romps in the bedroom, that's all you will get from him. Since you want something more than that, I see a red flag or three. The "play it by ear" comment is what makes me believe that he doesn't want, or isn't ready, for anything more at this time. That was a statement that didn't answer any question or offer any real future. I think by now he should know where this is headed, but that statement seems more placating than insightful. Like "don't rock the boat because I don't have a problem with things just the way they are. this is perfect for me."

[StartingOver07]

What is your current status with this man? Have you actually spent any time alone or has it is all been "family" type outings and phone calls?

 

What exactly did you mention to him when he responded, "Let's play it by ear"? I don't necessarily hear that as FWB or that he'll be done with you before it needs to be addressed so much as a natural desire not to take deal with unpleasantness. Presumably, he is well aware of his ex's craziness! I'm not sure I understand why his ex is a factor here; is it because you know her? Seems to me that the bigger factor is that your daughters are friends and if you and he don't work out, where will that leave girls' friendship?

[windchimes]

Dropdeadlegs and startingover07,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Could well be a FWB. Issue is that we have not yet spent time alone. He has has asked me to and I have been vague about a commit just because he has been vague about asking me. I'd rather have him suggest a date and time rather than simply asking me when we'll get some adult time together.

 

I think the tone of the conversations is more than a FWB tone, sex aside. But that doesn't comfort my concern: that he could just be in his "seduced male" zone right now....no real ability or desire to think outside of the moment.

 

Yes, we have had sex - once. No comment on it since it has no factor in what I am trying to understand in these posts.

 

My current status is time at kids event, phone calls, and a long night and morning alone last week.

 

Yes, he is concerned that his ex is a little crazy. That bothers me because he seems to cater to her because of it. Will this need to remain a secret because she might lose it?

 

When he said play it by ear, he had just finished telling me that he was thinking about ways in which we might spend time together with my daughter around and he had some really silly suggestion (playful tone) and I responded: "you know, this is a pretty complex situation we have gotten ourselves into.....there's no way she's not going to know". Then he said we'd play it by ear.

 

Yes, I was thinking that his ex was a factor bcus I know her...because she sat in my living room and talked about her marriage, her depression, her wanting her ex back. Like I said, this didn't go on long and we rarely see or speak to one another now. But, still. You know?

 

I am not worried about our daughters' friendships. They are friends, but not that close. My daughter probably has 5 closer friends. The girls were together more out of convenience for us parents with the driving....and every so often they decide they want to play one on one - so I have the daughter over to my house. They're 8....so it isn't that serious. They used to be better friends - have grown apart now.

 

I just wonder if it is really wrong that I could end up talking to her in the car pick-up line at school while knowing that I am sleeping with her ex husband and she doesn't know. Maybe it's none of her business. Maybe it is.

[melodymatters]

personally I'm not seeing any red flags here. In relationships where there are ex wives and kids there are always porblems of one sort or another, this doesn't seem any worse than most.

 

It sounds like you guys have a good connection and you are overthinking things ( perfectly natural) and he's perhaps not, because...he's a guy, and they tend not to overanalyze as much !

 

next time you are feeling " connected" and having adult time, whether on the phone or in person, I would basically ask.

 

be cool, calm and collected, and then just lay it out, as in " So, Jim, what are your thoughts on this whole thing, I like you ( feel comfortable with you, i feel a connection between us )but I'm past the point of playing games in my life. Do you think your ex is going to be a problem, because I don't feel comfortable "sneaking around", never have, never will.

 

and THEN, really listen. If you get the lets play it by ear, instead of him mirroring your comments " I feel really connected to you too !" and a rush to assure you that he won't let the ex wife become a problem, then maybe he's waving some red flags.

 

I am a firm believer that too often woman take such good care of themselves, their children, their finances, they comparison shop at the grocery or get quotes on car maintenance but when it comes to their hearts,minds, and bodies, they are too shy to speak up !!!

[dropdeadlegs]

melodymatters,

 

That is a great post. I don't think I understood the context of the actual question the first time around.

 

windchimes, I didn't mean to seem to be prying about your personal (ie: sex) life. I don't think I understood what you were looking for in the way of advice. It is a complex situation, in my opinion. At this point I think my personal experiences will cloud anything I have to offer. As such, I will step aside and hope that those with a more balanced viewpoint will offer something useful to you. I will follow your thread and if I have anything of value will share it with you.

 

Good luck with your dilemma. I sincerely hope that you find the answers you need.

[windchimes]

Dropdeadlegs, I know you didn't ask me for any details about the sex. I wasn't directing that at you, or anyone else. Just stating it since I know the fact that we've had sex might make a difference in someone's advice here...and I just wanted to make it a matter of fact point.

 

I appreciate all of your advice and will give it some more thought this evening.

 

Melodymatters, thanks for your advice, as well. I agree with you about speaking up. Will have that conversation soon. I like the "do you think your ex is going to be a problem? because it is a simple yes or no question and we can move off it it quickly, unless he wants to discuss it more deeply.

 

Thanks again everyone. If anyone else has advice or feedback, please offer.

[dropdeadlegs]

Dropdeadlegs, I know you didn't ask me for any details about the sex. I wasn't directing that at you, or anyone else. Just stating it since I know the fact that we've had sex might make a difference in someone's advice here...and I just wanted to make it a matter of fact point.

I'm relieved I didn't offend you, as it really isn't any of my business, but I was confused at first. Actually if it affects my opinion at all it's in a good way. Had there been many sexual encounters, but not much else in the way of alone time, I would be more inclined to go with my original post. I now think I was off base.

 

I am very conflicted about the ex spouse situation and that is where I would be uncomfortable advising. I do not think that a few speaking occasions and a friendship between your girls means that you owe her anything, or that it's any of her business if something big develops between you and her ex. At the same time mentally unstable people really scare me, and she seems unstable. I think that my experiences in that area render me unable to advise. I had a pretty off kilter ex once. I won't go into the specifics, but I will say that he made me, and any man that even appeared to be interested in me, miserable. I did not cater to his insane reactions, and overreactions, but it was scary at times. I would hate to say "RUN!" when you have a good connection with this man, but I can't say "Don't worry about her, its none of her business", either. I wouldn't want to live on the sly, but I wouldn't want anyone to go through the crap I went through. Given the choice, I would opt for the sly, but that can't last forever, now can it?

 

I wonder if he has dated anyone since their divorce and how she handled it if he did. Or if he has a plan when that time comes about. I don't need answers, but you might need some eventually.

 

Really, I wish you all the best. It's not often that we meet someone who shares our dreams and interests. That is very special, indeed. I hope it all works out, you deserve a happy relationship after 6 years.

[windchimes]

I wonder if he has dated anyone since their divorce and how she handled it if he did. Or if he has a plan when that time comes about. I don't need answers, but you might need some eventually.

 

Dropdeadlegs (love your name),

 

Thank you for following up with a reply. Glad we cleared up the misunderstanding about the sex . I completely understand your hesitancy in offering anything further on the mentally unstable ex. I think she's really more of a drama queen than anything...someone who is "stuck" in the role of a miserable person. She's got a lot to lose, so I hope that keeps her "on kilter". She's a PhD and a professor.

 

I know about the unstable ex, as well. I had one myself....restraining order and all. Good riddance!

 

He has casually dated several people since their divorce. She has not known about it. She has assumed that he has not dated anyone.....which is a stretch since he is fairly good looking and is a real people-person. I'll say this to better clarify why she might be so wrapped up in their past marriage....they married when she was 36.....he was 33. She was a virgin at that time and made him wait until their wedding night to have sex. Now she's single again, and because she doesn't believe in premarital sex, she's not having sex until she remarries.

 

Since she hasn't even had so much as 1 date since their separation, she's probably not holding out much hope for remarriage. She's very intelligent, pretty, petite/fit, worldly....but she's super intense. She's very critical of everyone and everything....judgemental....never smiles...never pleased with anything.....never having a good time.

 

She's still trying to lure him back into bed when he goes to drop off their daughter. He claims to never have taken her up on it. But, I suspect he has not been very firm. Knowing him, he's probably been smiling and easing out of it gently.

 

I'm confident that he is not interested in her, but the fact that there's still this cat and mouse game going on kind of bothers me. If my ex were to proposition me for sex, he'd leave with a firm understanding of where we stand. I'd probably vomit if I had to endure that kind of solicitation from him on a regular basis...ick.

 

You'd think that 4 years is long enough to have worked out all of the kinks in a divorce and have everybody move on .

 

I really hope this gets easier soon. In the meantime, I'll just focus on him and I. I don't want the image of her to become part of our relationship...like some kind of ghost watching over us.

 

Thanks again!

[dropdeadlegs]

Good to hear your eyes are wide open concerning the drama loving, restraining order requiring, types. I'm sorry you had to experience that yourself.

 

It is concerning that he appears to continue treating her with kid-gloves, but he may just prefer to avoid anything dramatic until he feels it is necessary to do so. If his previous dating was casual, I can understand not wanting open some big can of worms.

 

I find this ex rather interesting. Interesting in a "Huh?" kind of way, not fascinating. Her belief in no premarital sex is admirable, yet it is almost unrealistic in this day and age to think she will find someone with equal values. That is likely playing into her being stuck in a rut, depressed, and feeling generally miserable. It also keeps her hanging on in an unhealthy way to someone who is no longer available to her. Throwing herself at him sexually is a bit of a conundrum considering they are no longer married. In my mind that would constitute premarital sex because they aren't married.

 

Four years is such a long time to not have clear closure and remain stagnant in unhappiness. I don't know how she does it.

 

Like you, I would be very firm with an ex. It's important to me to not unintentionally imply that ANY doors remain open. Once they are closed, they are practically barricaded!

 

The good news is that the crazy astronaut driving through five states wearing a diaper makes for good press, but is rare. This ladies status should keep her in check, because she would certainly have a lot to lose.

 

I guess that's all I have to say today. As I said before, a true connection is hard to find and I wouldn't want to give one up. Sometimes in life, I get so caught up in preparing myself for the worst, that I can lose perspective of just enjoying the moment. It's a self defense mechanism so that I cannot be disappointed. More often it's not nearly as bad as I can imagine it could be.

 

Good luck! I hope you will keep us posted as to how things pan out.

[windchimes]

Thanks again! Take care, Dropdeadlegs.