kdark Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I used to be a nice guy to women, but because of certain things, I am not anymore. I've been doing the "nice guy" bit that has been talked to death on this forum my entire life, with minimal success. My last girlfriend drove me to the breaking point. I met her at college, she thinks I am the nicest guy ever, thinks I am attractive, says things like "You are the sweetest guy I have ever met" "How are you still single?" the first date we go on we have sex, and then six days later she breaks up with me saying that I am not religious enough for her. She was an extreme Christian, and would cite scripture occasionally when we talked on the phone, and after having sex with me on the first date, she breaks up with me because it says in the bible she can't date an atheist. I'm pretty sure it says a lot of crap about being promiscuous too, but apparently she didn't think the rules applied to her... My recent experiences with women's inconsistencies and downright confusing actions have driven me to start being an a-hole. I have become bitter at girls in general, and I am downright mean to them. And my results have been very disheartening. I was usually always the guy who girls could depend on, and never said anything bad about anyone... But when I start acting like a dick head, and treating girls like crap, never calling them when I say, completely ignoring them and embarrassing them in front of everyone, I become the object of their fantasies. "Seventh grade school girl crush" were the exact words I overheard how one girl felt about me, and I have done nothing but make small talk with her occasionally, and make fun of her taste in music, and make fun of her position at the place we work at. This is just one of close to a dozen instances. Maybe I'm just angry about how things have been going for me relationship-wise, but it seems as soon as I hit rock bottom and stopped caring getting a relationship together, girls started coming out of the woodwork to get into one with me. And it only makes me more bitter to know that this is the way things work. Anyone else have this kind of experience? Am I alone on this? What do you have to say about this girls?
Citizen Erased Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 You need to absolutely forget your ex. She is an idiot. She is obviously a VERY confused person. If she was that religious to dump you because you are an atheist, then she should not have slept with you, especially on the first date. She obviously used you and thought it was an easy excuse. When you know that you are being an a-hole to women, stop, and say to your self they are not my ex. Everyone has bad experiences whilst dating, its says alot about a person as to how they deal with their life experiences. But you have absolutely NO RIGHT to treat any woman who has an interest in you like crap. I can tell from your post that you are actually a nice guy, otherwise I wouldnt be posting. You know how to treat a woman, so stop doing all of the childish dating stuff some men and women do. Treat others how you want to be treated and you will find the diamond in amongst the rough. Some girls are attracted to the "bad boy" stereotype, but those girls don't tend to be exactly desirable as a person.
DownwardSpiral1984 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Actually I am very tempted to try being an A-hole. I tried...but it didn't work. Kdark...i think what you should do is to maintain your a-hole style. Be mean to the girls...but at the same time...be nice to them occasionally. I haven't tried it...but yeah...if you don't want to completely change your personality, give that a try and let me know if girls are still all over you.
2ndIINone Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 it's not about being an a'hole OR a nice guy. It's all about "how you carry yourself". Poking fun at the girls, being naughty, treating them as if THEY can't have you is in a weird way... creating attraction. Not answering every call, acting aloof, being emotionally unavailable ISN'T being an a-hole. It's more like.... "Being fine with WHO you are, confident and comfortable with or without them in your life." creates the ultimate attraction. It's human nature to want what you can't have. And NOT want, what you know you have. It goes along with just about everything in life.... Remember the first pedal bike you had to have??? The coolest bike out there? You save your paperroute money all summer just to buy the bike, and two weeks later... guess what? It's just a bike. OR your first car that you couldn't wait to have and drive??? You wash it everyday for a month.... sooner or later... it's just a car and OTHER cars are looking better now. Sad as it is.... it's human nature. Keeping the attraction is the hardest part. Falling back into the ol' "wuss" qualities is what kills the attraction. Some could argue... but it's still the truth. No guy OR girl wants to be with someone that is too available...
Woggle Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Have respect for your self and no your worth. Eventually you will find a woman that appreciates being treated well. Don't treat women like crap and don't even bother with women that have little girl mentalities because that is what the women you are describing are. They are little girls in a woman's body and some day you will meet a real woman who knows how to appreciate a real man.
Citizen Erased Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Have respect for your self and no your worth. Eventually you will find a woman that appreciates being treated well. Don't treat women like crap and don't even bother with women that have little girl mentalities because that is what the women you are describing are. They are little girls in a woman's body and some day you will meet a real woman who knows how to appreciate a real man. This is spot on. You need to work on yourself, become a person you are happy with. You acting this way turns off the real women, the ones you should be looking for to have a great relationship with.
DanielMadr Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 OK. You got some reality check, real world slapping. Yeah girls do respond better in romantic way to reckless jerks. They are closest to Man you can get most of the time and they are easy to hit and forget - you can dump a jerk with less remorse. Its time to shake it off. Do you know WHO YOU ARE? WHAT ARE YOU MADE OF? and WHAT DO YOU WANT? WHAT DO YOU HONOUR? Answer these questions and more for yourself and then stick to it. You can do minor character brushing and shaping but thats it. I seriously dont think you are frustrated lamb or pissed off azzhole. Find your core, man and dont whine.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Actually I am very tempted to try being an A-hole. I tried...but it didn't work. Kdark...i think what you should do is to maintain your a-hole style. Be mean to the girls...but at the same time...be nice to them occasionally. I haven't tried it...but yeah...if you don't want to completely change your personality, give that a try and let me know if girls are still all over you. I wouldn't recommend being an a-hole if that isn't who you are. Sure, women are superficial and the nice guy gets shi!t all over....but they get what is coming to them if they like the bad boy because they'll be bitching whining and moaning about how they can't find a nice guy....when all they go for are the jerks. So don't stop being a nice guy....if a woman wants a jerk...let them have them....they will make their bed and they can lie in it and cry their eyes out when things don't go their way.
DanielMadr Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Have respect for your self and no your worth. Eventually you will find a woman that appreciates being treated well. Don't treat women like crap and don't even bother with women that have little girl mentalities because that is what the women you are describing are. They are little girls in a woman's body and some day you will meet a real woman who knows how to appreciate a real man. There is a bit problem. He probably dont want to date 40yo women. I say catch them, make them fall in love aka tame them and make them pregnant:p
SouthernT Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 O.K. you REALLY struck a nerve with me on this one. PLEASE take the time to read my thread titled "Taking it slow or flat out gay?" I am going through this EXACT situation with a guy. When you act like an a$$, you completely turn off that one girl that stood behind her morals and wanted to truly take the time out to get to know you for the NICE guy you REALLY are on the inside. And while you are asking yourself "why should I be nice? When being an A$$ hole gets me more results?" That one girl is asking herself "why should I continue to stand by my morals when the guys continue to pass me over because I wont put out or put up with their behavior?" What I've learned is this: EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY HAVE BEEN HURT, DONT LET THAT SITUATION CHANGE WHO YOU REALLY ARE AS A PERSON. Its not worth it and its not fair to the girl.
Guest Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I remember being a totally a$$ to this one girl. She loved me. She was totally into me. After a month of this, I decided to ask her out and of course I started treating her better. She notices and says to me "nice guys finish last"..... I will never forget those words. I was in shock and still am. This was 15 years ago.
xenonsrt10 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 stay mean and bitterman. i got my heart broken once and i will not let it happen again. but dont let it consume you. let this girl know the anger you have over this. sometimes you must be an a-hole and a jerk. i couldnt bget anything being so nice.
Trialbyfire Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 Have respect for your self and no your worth. Eventually you will find a woman that appreciates being treated well. Don't treat women like crap and don't even bother with women that have little girl mentalities because that is what the women you are describing are. They are little girls in a woman's body and some day you will meet a real woman who knows how to appreciate a real man. Here, here, Woggle. I can only agree with this.
Author kdark Posted April 17, 2007 Author Posted April 17, 2007 it's not about being an a'hole OR a nice guy. It's all about "how you carry yourself". Poking fun at the girls, being naughty, treating them as if THEY can't have you is in a weird way... creating attraction. Not answering every call, acting aloof, being emotionally unavailable ISN'T being an a-hole. It's more like.... "Being fine with WHO you are, confident and comfortable with or without them in your life." creates the ultimate attraction. It's human nature to want what you can't have. And NOT want, what you know you have.I know this. And I also know that women my age (20) think that if a guy has enough balls to be an a-hole to girls, then he can carry himself well. I know that if i get into a relationship with a girl when I treat her like crap, I'm not going to be able to help but switch back to the nice guy, because that's who I really am. Then I'll scare her away.
DanielMadr Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 I know this. And I also know that women my age (20) think that if a guy has enough balls to be an a-hole to girls, then he can carry himself well. There is lot of truth in it. With azzholes you get more drama, you can dump them without much remorse and stay free. For your problem.....your inner-wussy coming out. You know there is fine line between being confident and nice and being nice b/c one is insecure. Question your fears. And simply dont love a girl unless she has something to offer first. You have to be more picky and demanding. After all you might end up living your life beside her. Dont get weak. Dont ever get weak. Never ever. Once you do. She will loose her respect for you and game over. If you still need someone like your mom to take care of you....to be sure she never leaves you, b/c mums rarely leaves then wake up man. This phase of your life ended. Now you are on your own. Its not that tough. Dont be afraid of it.
torranceshipman Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 Speaking from a girl's perspective here: the '7th grade crush thing' puts you in the category of 'hot, but I wouldn't want a long term thing with him'-that's total fling only material...I used to go for them when I was in my total commitment-phobic phase...! If you want a beautiful, clever and lovely girl to be with you long term, be the total sweetie you always were and a lovely girl will be bowled over by it (unless she's really insecure, in which case she might need to have a 'challenge' to push up her self-esteem, so she'll go more for the a-holes). To be honest the girl you spoke about on this thread sounds totally messed up and is certainly not representative of the general female populace... I've dated a few guys in my time who were a-holes (but very hot, and a lot of fun, to be fair) - I always ended it because they were just too much of an emotional drain...and I wondered if I shouldn't be so nice, as I felt I was taken advantage of...but I figured, no, why change myself...and, well, the guy I'm dating now is a total hottie...very intelligent, hot, popular, fun, a bit of a handful but also very affectionate and thoughtful - and one of the things that he says floors him about me is that I'm such a sweet person - which is also in my eyes what makes him such a catch (as he has a lot of girls after him so could easily be an a-hole if he wanted - but he isn't). Guys are often real a-holes, and believe me, finding a confident hottie who is also sweet? There are a LOT of girls out there looking for that - sounds like you're one of them so don't go changing!!
QWERTY Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 I used to be a nice guy, and by "nice" I mean a complete wimp. I guess I still am a bit wimpy in my current relationship, but I'm finally standing up for myself when she acts like an ass. But I also went through a "no more Mr. Nice Guy" phase, and here's what I learned... Nice Guys attract women who are messed up... often because they've been used and abused by Jerks. Nice Guys are considered safe. And in my experience, Nice Guys get dumped on by these messed up women -- they get to hear all about how badly their exes treated them, and how their parents didn't hug them enough when they were young. They also get to hear all about the "mistakes" these women have made, which in my experience usually leads to issues with sex -- "he made me feel like a whore, so now I'm not comfortable with doing this, or that, or that, or that, and especially not THAT!" I've been with more than one women who burst into tears while having sex because they were stuck in the past -- not exactly a turn-on. And I've always had issues with cheating in all of my relationships, because deep down, most (if not all) women are more attracted to Jerks than Nice Guys. It's in their DNA to be drawn to the alpha male -- the biggest, the strongest, the most arrogant. Women will ignore all of the warning signs that a Jerk is going to treat them like crap, and even make the same mistake over and over and over again with different Jerks ("I thought he was different"). But over time, a woman will get tired of being made to feel like crap by a Jerk, and will go looking for something else. That's why so many married women are easy to cheat with -- show them a little attention, tell them they're pretty, and they're yours. So what's the key to happiness? I think you need to be a mix of both a Jerk and a Nice Guy. Be arrogant, be proud, be the alpha male -- but with a nice, respectful side to you. If you're just a Jerk, you'll attract women who are just attracted to Jerks. If you have a nice side to you, if you keep that Jerky edge but treat women with respect, your Jerkiness will attract women and your nice side will make them think of you as a long-term prospect instead of just someone to lust after. And don't make the mistake of becoming a complete Nice Guy once you're in a relationship -- always stay a bit of a Jerk, so your woman will know she's with an alpha male and not a wimp. Don't treat her like crap, but let her know that you don't take crap -- from her or anyone else. My current woman has been in abusive relationships all of her life and loves me for my sensitive side, but she also gets completely turned on when I do something dominating or even arrogant. She says its my confidence that turns her on, but I know that it's really because she's drawn to Jerkiness, and so I give her what she wants. And we're both happy.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 Hey kdark. I dont even think being an ******* is what its like. Ever since my break up a while back I've been brutally honest with females and it seems that whenever I get within their reach they sense I'm diiferent. I dont even call it being an ******* I call it not being a doormat for anybody. I think that if you can just be assertive and confident you can do many things. Right now I've been dating around. three girls at the same time or talking to 2 and dating 1. we'll see how this works. but right now alot of females miss the nice guy I used to be. I'm trying to become who I was before but it isnt easy. I used to trust easier and love more deeply now it's nothing like that. it's a little more brutal and colder and to the point. it is what it is.
Kathleen2260 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 You sound a lot like my ex. He is a self-proclaimed nice guy. I agree that he CAN be a nice guy but he is not as sweet and wonderful as he thinks. He is a lot better than most of the as***les out there but he is not perfect. We dated for five years and at first it was great and then we had a lot of problems for various reasons. he never cheated on me so I guess you could label him as a nice guy. He opened doors for me, did sweet things once in awhile but I ended up leaving him because everything was all about HIM and basically he neglected our relationship. We've been apart for almost six years and we still talk about once a month. He tells me that the girls he dates end up leaving him because he's such a nice guy and they are turned off by this. He is starting to become an assh** toward all women because he is frustrated by this. I've told him that his problem isnt' that he's such a nice guy, its just that most women think that his behavior is an act and that there must be something wrong with him and that he is faking it. Well part of that is true, because in truth, he is faking or actually he is hiding all of his flaws and putting 110% effort into the female he dates. This will soon change as he gets to know her better. But it is a turnoff at first because it seems so needy and in some cases probably too good to be true. There are more assh** than nice guys out there so most females are used to being treated somewhat badly. So when someone smothers them with affection and says all the right things they feel its a put-on or an act or just that the guy isnt' a challenge. To the OP, sounds as if your ex wasnt' a "nice" girl. If you find someone who is a genuinely good person you won't have the problems you've experienced.
DanielMadr Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 You sound a lot like my ex. He is a self-proclaimed nice guy. I agree that he CAN be a nice guy but he is not as sweet and wonderful as he thinks. He is a lot better than most of the as***les out there but he is not perfect. We dated for five years and at first it was great and then we had a lot of problems for various reasons. he never cheated on me so I guess you could label him as a nice guy. He opened doors for me, did sweet things once in awhile but I ended up leaving him because everything was all about HIM and basically he neglected our relationship. We've been apart for almost six years and we still talk about once a month. He tells me that the girls he dates end up leaving him because he's such a nice guy and they are turned off by this. He is starting to become an assh** toward all women because he is frustrated by this. I've told him that his problem isnt' that he's such a nice guy, its just that most women think that his behavior is an act and that there must be something wrong with him and that he is faking it. Well part of that is true, because in truth, he is faking or actually he is hiding all of his flaws and putting 110% effort into the female he dates. This will soon change as he gets to know her better. But it is a turnoff at first because it seems so needy and in some cases probably too good to be true. There are more assh** than nice guys out there so most females are used to being treated somewhat badly. So when someone smothers them with affection and says all the right things they feel its a put-on or an act or just that the guy isnt' a challenge. To the OP, sounds as if your ex wasnt' a "nice" girl. If you find someone who is a genuinely good person you won't have the problems you've experienced. In most cases nice guys are nice, b/c they are just insecure pussies. They are nice but also hell to live with, fight alongside and make buissiness with.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 You sound a lot like my ex. He is a self-proclaimed nice guy. I agree that he CAN be a nice guy but he is not as sweet and wonderful as he thinks. He is a lot better than most of the as***les out there but he is not perfect. We dated for five years and at first it was great and then we had a lot of problems for various reasons. he never cheated on me so I guess you could label him as a nice guy. He opened doors for me, did sweet things once in awhile but I ended up leaving him because everything was all about HIM and basically he neglected our relationship. We've been apart for almost six years and we still talk about once a month. He tells me that the girls he dates end up leaving him because he's such a nice guy and they are turned off by this. He is starting to become an assh** toward all women because he is frustrated by this. I've told him that his problem isnt' that he's such a nice guy, its just that most women think that his behavior is an act and that there must be something wrong with him and that he is faking it. Well part of that is true, because in truth, he is faking or actually he is hiding all of his flaws and putting 110% effort into the female he dates. This will soon change as he gets to know her better. But it is a turnoff at first because it seems so needy and in some cases probably too good to be true. There are more assh** than nice guys out there so most females are used to being treated somewhat badly. So when someone smothers them with affection and says all the right things they feel its a put-on or an act or just that the guy isnt' a challenge. To the OP, sounds as if your ex wasnt' a "nice" girl. If you find someone who is a genuinely good person you won't have the problems you've experienced. That sounds like a complete bunch of BS!!!! They'll dump him because they think his nice guy thing is an act??!?! What kind of rational thinking is that? What if the guy is genuinely nice and wants to please his woman because that's in his heart? why can't a woman accept the gratitude and niceness from a man who wants to love her? Why does she push him away? If that's the case all woman would like to be treated like dumb whores and sluts if they feel like they deserve to be dumped on. We know they're are nice women out there so why cant there be nice guys out there as well? I bet your really regretting dumping out that nice guy now, you know how he treated you wasnt an act. It doesnt make sense.
Woggle Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 There are many women who are so bitter against men that they think anything a man does must be fake. I suggest that men stay away from these type of women because they are nothing but drama. They will bring out the worst in you and will eventually have you acting like a jerk because it gets more positive reaction from them. This is what I mean by going for a woman instead of a little girl. A woman can appreciate a man that knows how to treat a woman and knows how to deal with a healthy relationship while a little girl is familiar with drama and men who dog her out so she panics when a man is different from that.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 There is lot of truth in it. With azzholes you get more drama, you can dump them without much remorse and stay free. They want the drama....and you may be right about no remorse about dumping them...but why do so many of them bitch and whine when the "bad boy" fullfills their expectation of being an ahole? They complain about not being able to find a great guy out there...date the "bad boy"...then whine about how all men are jerks.
Woggle Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Another problem with nice guys is that they are weak. A woman can cheat on them and treat them like crap and they will still stay with her and probably blame themselves for it. A woman quickly loses respect for a man like this and once a woman loses respect it is over. The key is to be a kind and caring man without being a weak man. My wife knows that I will do almost anything to make her happy because she appreciates it and will do the same for me but if she ever betrays that and takes advantage of it I will serve her the divorce papers that day. Too many men keep being nice to women that don't deserve it.
Salicious Crumb Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 In most cases nice guys are nice, b/c they are just insecure pussies. They are nice but also hell to live with, fight alongside and make buissiness with. I disagree....depends on what you see as a nice guy....too many people see nice guys as clingy romantics that go overboard to woo a woman out of desperation. In my view...a nice guy is a confident guy that treats a woman right, isn't needy, isn't clingy, and doesn't cheat...among other good qualities. And yes...there are us nice guys out there that look good to satisfy the superficiality. And this is where the nice guys need to be VERY selective. The women who go for the "bad boys" that don't make good mates in the long run can complain and complain about not finding a good man. Because in the end...it is the nice guys, not the "insecure pussies" as you'd put it, that will be in the driver's seat. However the problem arises that the nice guy will probably end up with one of these women who liked to date "bad boys" and will be walked all over by these women. And thats when the nice guy ceases becoming a nice guy.....at least to that particular woman.
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