Touche Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Yes, Touche, exactly! Tame = change. The older I get the more I accept the person as they are, not what I think they could be. Honesty, loyalty and integrity sound great to me! (and it's a plus if he will do ALL the yard work and wash the car) Maybe we date the bad boys in our twenties so we will appreciate the REALLY great guys in our thirties and forties! Yes, I've always thought that too. (Regarding the last sentence.) I used to like unpredictable guys. I thought that was exciting and that the predictable ones were boring. Boy, did that change when I got older. I RAN away from the unpredictable ones and wanted a predictable, stable man. And yes, I was lucky enough to find a man who is honest and loyal AND washes the cars and mows the lawn. There really ARE such men. And yes, I love his predictability. He does still manage to surprise me though every now and then...even after 12 years together.
Tony T Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Maybe we date the bad boys in our twenties so we will appreciate the REALLY great guys in our thirties and forties! No, I think it's because the economy requires the infusion of billions of dollars a year in attorney fees, court fees, retraining order injunctions, and legal settlements resulting from divorce to keep the country going. There are some very good thoughts in this thread. I was most impressed by the one early on that proposed a lady going into a date with no expectations and working on keeping it going as she might like. The critical problem facing relationships today is selfishness. There are way too few individuals who are willing to give, even it it's only a little planning, in order to make things work. Narcissists abound....as well as those who approach that state. Many people today are strictly looking out for what they can get out of a relationship with no thought to what they might give. When you look at the ads in newspapers and on the Internet, only in extremely rare instances do you find someone stating what they are willing to bring to the table. Instead, most every ad I've seen written by a female wants a guy six feet tall or more, who likes to travel, who likes fine dining, who likes walks on the beach, etc. The guy reading the ad is left completely wondering what this lady has to offer except the availability of her torso to participate in the activities she requests. The other thing that troubles me greatly is that it's very true...people's idea of what they want changes with time. So people who marry early...or at any stage...are not likely to enjoy the package they paired with after a few years and some maturing. It's frightening.
Island Girl Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I disagree with taming equaling changing. For me -- I want the man to stay the man I met -- not change into something else (generally that caused me to walk). But I have found that the one's who are challenging I have more of an equal relationship with. But I have always been kind of a wild one myself.
Island Girl Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 When you look at the ads in newspapers and on the Internet, only in extremely rare instances do you find someone stating what they are willing to bring to the table. Instead, most every ad I've seen written by a female wants a guy six feet tall or more, who likes to travel, who likes fine dining, who likes walks on the beach, etc. The guy reading the ad is left completely wondering what this lady has to offer except the availability of her torso to participate in the activities she requests. I never thought of that but it is true.
Trialbyfire Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 The other thing that troubles me greatly is that it's very true...people's idea of what they want changes with time. So people who marry early...or at any stage...are not likely to enjoy the package they paired with after a few years and some maturing. It's frightening. Maybe the solution is not so much chronological age but equal amounts of emotional and intellectual maturity.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 Why even put the effort in when you can just find another guy? -- He is not so great. You can find another one. I guess because there are a lot of things I like about him and it's very rare I find guys that I like enough. Various ages -- 19 to late 30's. If a guy is a player--or is at least acting like a player--in his 40's---do you think that's the same? Can they really change?
Tony T Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Maybe the solution is not so much chronological age but equal amounts of emotional and intellectual maturity. I'm very sure that's what most people strive for but thought is usually never given to the direction and speed the partner may grow. And people often discover more about each other as time goes forward that they really don't like. Had they had this knowledge before the marriage, they would have backed out. Romantic love, chemistry and "the moment" all combine to trump reason and good judgment. I think that's what nature meant to happen in order to ensure reproduction of the species. If genitals had brains, there would be lots less people on the planet. With genitals being used as the brains, nature seems to be happy...even if many people aren't.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 The only player worth taming is the guy who really isn't a player, just very charming and a great "catch." This guy is a good guy underneath, waiting for the right woman, a true equal. And how do you know if one really isn't a player?
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 Yes, I've always thought that too. (Regarding the last sentence.) I used to like unpredictable guys. I thought that was exciting and that the predictable ones were boring. Boy, did that change when I got older. I RAN away from the unpredictable ones and wanted a predictable, stable man. I wish I could say the same. I want honesty, loyalty, etc....but I also want a bit of an edge and that hasn't changed as I've gotten older. It's changed forms though. Whereas in the past they might have been getting drunk or driving fast cars, now they're running businesses and triathalons.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 There are some very good thoughts in this thread. I was most impressed by the one early on that proposed a lady going into a date with no expectations and working on keeping it going as she might like. I just wanted to let you know that I go on dates with no expectations. I also keep it very laid back and casual. I usually have ideas for what to do or where to go. I don't depend on a man to lead me around. I've been taking care of myself for a long time now and I think for myself. I know there are some women who expect the man to do all of the work but I'm not one of them. If he wants to do the planning, I'm fine with that too. Whichever way it gets planned though, I pretty much do what I want. I don't just follow anyone around.
melodymatters Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Ok, first lets buy some matching outfits and work on a dance routine: because SISTER, YOU ARE SINGIN' MY SONG !!!! I had two thoughts here, hopefully 1 of them will be productive... (My first thought, " well, I'M witty and charming, and have adventures, and seldom lack for male admirers, so why SHOULDN'T I expect the same from my partner ?".........., but I'm also nice and loyal and honest, and a team player and why can't they have those qualities also ??? ) But the second thought was that the last man you were referring too, you said you hadn't even met him yet ........WTF.......!?!??? what this tells me ( us) is that it isn't the "person" you are falling for. it's the story, the play ,the way you and he fit together in your own little drama, that makes these types attractive, and the streak of narcissim in ourselves that needs to be re-painted. Whoa, ok, sorry I psychoanalyized on YOUR thread, had a thoughtful weekend and you touched a nerve Touche - Um, the new avatar...I must of missed an amussing thread !!!!! : :cool: :cool: the scarlett letter ??????
nicki Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 You know he's not really a player by watching, over time, what he says and does. A guy who is a good guy will show his true character. He will most likely drop all the other women once you two have been out a few times. He will care more about what YOU want, than what he wants. He will be nice to the waitress, without flirting with her or checking her out (a player will definitely do both.) A player will continue to act selfish, needing his ego stroked by many women. He will keep up the phone calls to lots of women. So, the trick is to give it a bit of time. I'm not a lion tamer, nor a man tamer. *cracks whip* A guy needs to already want what I've got to give. Maybe he only recognizes it when he meets me, and that means he's not a player. He's just incredibly smart and ready. I am a bit spirited, too, Island Girl. I know what you mean. I need a guy who is like that, too, and can stand up to me sometimes. It helps balance me. It's really a matter of personality, then. Guys with good character can have lots of different personalities. SweetScarlett, you sound like you like guys with personalities that are dynamic, powerful and disciplined. That's a good thing. Just make sure the guy has the quality of character as well. And for starters, he shouldn't need a lot of other women's attention. Maybe just yours. Personally, I'd tell a player that you don't think he's man enough for you anyway. That usually gets their attention. Just kidding here. Players aren't worth your time! You can find a good quality guy with the kind of personality you want, minus the huge ego.
Touche Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I wish I could say the same. I want honesty, loyalty, etc....but I also want a bit of an edge and that hasn't changed as I've gotten older. It's changed forms though. Whereas in the past they might have been getting drunk or driving fast cars, now they're running businesses and triathalons. Well I'm married to a successful man. And yes, he has an "edge." And guess what? Not all of these men are narcissists. And you asked how you know if a guy isn't a player. Look at his past history and go by how he treats you. Does he follow through on what he says he's going to do? As far as listening to how they speak about friends and family and exes..that's just a GUIDE. It's not supposed to replace good judgement and being observant to his actions. And to the person who said they don't agree with taming equalling changing. I'm not sure how you can disagree with that. What didn't you agree with? When you tame someone by definition you are CHANGING them. Here's one definition from dictionary.com: changed from the wild or savage state; domesticated: a tame bear. Please note that the first word is CHANGED.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 Ok, first lets buy some matching outfits and work on a dance routine: because SISTER, YOU ARE SINGIN' MY SONG !!!! I had two thoughts here, hopefully 1 of them will be productive... (My first thought, " well, I'M witty and charming, and have adventures, and seldom lack for male admirers, so why SHOULDN'T I expect the same from my partner ?".........., but I'm also nice and loyal and honest, and a team player and why can't they have those qualities also ??? ) But the second thought was that the last man you were referring too, you said you hadn't even met him yet ........WTF.......!?!??? what this tells me ( us) is that it isn't the "person" you are falling for. it's the story, the play ,the way you and he fit together in your own little drama, that makes these types attractive, and the streak of narcissim in ourselves that needs to be re-painted. Whoa, ok, sorry I psychoanalyized on YOUR thread, had a thoughtful weekend and you touched a nerve Touche - Um, the new avatar...I must of missed an amussing thread !!!!! : :cool: :cool: the scarlett letter ?????? I'm not really sure what you're trying to get across.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 SweetScarlett, you sound like you like guys with personalities that are dynamic, powerful and disciplined. That's a good thing. Just make sure the guy has the quality of character as well. And for starters, he shouldn't need a lot of other women's attention. Maybe just yours. Personally, I'd tell a player that you don't think he's man enough for you anyway. That usually gets their attention. Just kidding here. Players aren't worth your time! You can find a good quality guy with the kind of personality you want, minus the huge ego. Well if you actually find one like that, let me know! lol The ones I find with those traits seem to come complete with huge ego.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 16, 2007 Author Posted April 16, 2007 Well I'm married to a successful man. And yes, he has an "edge." And guess what? Not all of these men are narcissists. And you asked how you know if a guy isn't a player. Look at his past history and go by how he treats you. Does he follow through on what he says he's going to do? How can you look at their past history and how they treat you if you don't know them well enough yet? Plus I guess the fact that it was LD made it more difficult. I don't know if this is actually who he is or is due to the fact that he's newly single.
Touche Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 How can you look at their past history and how they treat you if you don't know them well enough yet? Plus I guess the fact that it was LD made it more difficult. I don't know if this is actually who he is or is due to the fact that he's newly single. How can you look at their past history and how they treat you if you don't know them well enough yet? Well, you get to know them of course. Or you hire a detective;) I'm getting the feeling that you're looking for an instanst solution here. There isn't one. You have to go through what we ALL have gone through (or are going through.) Sorry, but that's the reality. Good men don't just come to you all wrapped up in a pretty bow. Oh and I don't recommend an LD. These things take time. You must be patient and I'm sensing your impatience and your cynicism...not good. Men pick up on that and RUN, not walk the opposite way.
Curmudgeon Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 You have great insight also. My wife and I were 43 and 45, respectively, when we first met. Had we met just five years earlier we wouldn't have even liked one another, much less become friends. Serandipitously, we met at precisely the right time in both our lives, found a bond and, five years after meeting when I finally asked her out, fell in love. We're now in our 11th year of marriage. One thing both of us have always agreed upon is that we both needed alkl the mistakes, sorry experiences and bad choices of our younger days to become the people we are and be ready for one another.
DanielMadr Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 OP, you are searching for top of the creme. Make sure you have something to offer:eek: There are Ego Stroking Players and there are players by circumstance, which they do , b/c its necessity. Once one girl says 'Yeah lets date, I like you' they drop the rest of the harem of potentional dates. Believe me if guy has job and at least one decent hobby, he has not much time or energy to date several girls for long as Professional daters do. There is one more thing....no guy wants to settle down and likes to keep his backdoor open. Its your job to make him close his escape route and settle down with you. It wont happen when you are not sure if you want to settle down or party, travel, study etc. Take your time with them to get to know them. Once a Nice guy is not nervous around you, maybe he will surpise you. I think those "Players" make you wet, b/c they are OK to dump....not very serious about future, kids etc. Gives you vibe of not loosing your freedom and you need strong emotional impulses, which they provide. Narcissism is a problem in western civilization. Spoiled selfish kids they are. Sometimes hiding their insecurity behind arrogance. Looking for the best a world can offer.....best man/woman possible for example even they have little to offer back. Tell me when you meet a guy who is witty, charming and honest with integrity....your dream man, will you want to have children with him....sacrificing your own comfort and freedom?
DownwardSpiral1984 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 It is pretty sad to be type 2, the nice guy. I think the problem with type 2 is not that they don't want to do something exciting, or something fun. In fact, I believe that they do and they try really hard. But the thing is that they tend to fail miserably. I consider myself as type 2, the "boring type" and I agree with you on that cuz whenever I manage to go out on a date...I find myself boring too. (this usually happens when I go on dates...normally, im pretty fun.) The thing is that my mind just went blank...I have all these desires to make the date more interesting but what I ended up doing is blurting out random question while spending all my time thinking for clever things to say. It is really hard for me to express what I feel when I am around my date. In the end...she probably think that I am some sort of weirdo.......i don't blame her...:-\. I do the gentlemanly thing...such as getting her flowers...picking her up...and take her to get ice cream after dinner yadiyada. It may look like a good date...but I was suffering the whole time because I can feel my date getting bored and I cannot do anything about it. I don't even expect anything from the date. I do not expect to "get lucky" or kiss or whatever...I just want her to have a good time with me. It is so sad tho, when I realize that I can't even do just that. Yeah...this is just my take from the nice guy's point of view. If you have any suggestions to me on how to improve myself...please do.
DanielMadr Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 It is pretty sad to be type 2, the nice guy. I think the problem with type 2 is not that they don't want to do something exciting, or something fun. In fact, I believe that they do and they try really hard. But the thing is that they tend to fail miserably. I consider myself as type 2, the "boring type" and I agree with you on that cuz whenever I manage to go out on a date...I find myself boring too. (this usually happens when I go on dates...normally, im pretty fun.) The thing is that my mind just went blank...I have all these desires to make the date more interesting but what I ended up doing is blurting out random question while spending all my time thinking for clever things to say. It is really hard for me to express what I feel when I am around my date. In the end...she probably think that I am some sort of weirdo.......i don't blame her...:-\. I do the gentlemanly thing...such as getting her flowers...picking her up...and take her to get ice cream after dinner yadiyada. It may look like a good date...but I was suffering the whole time because I can feel my date getting bored and I cannot do anything about it. I don't even expect anything from the date. I do not expect to "get lucky" or kiss or whatever...I just want her to have a good time with me. It is so sad tho, when I realize that I can't even do just that. Yeah...this is just my take from the nice guy's point of view. If you have any suggestions to me on how to improve myself...please do. Yeah wait until they are 40 or 30 at best and start to panic and want to settle down and have kids and predictable husband. But dont be too surpised when they divorce you after few years when they realise they cant respect you and therefore love you. Or work on your self esteem. Make some martial arts courses, practise dating, talking and socializing. Get rid of your fears. Learn to be more benevolent....enjoying your date without too much worries. Dont think too much and dont worry too much. Learn to be relaxed as you are around your friends....of course its not the same but you can draw near. You have to realize you are on your own. You have to be the strong one. You already have a mum. It is better with a good girl but once you realize your happiness is not based on that, you will be less eager and make less mistakes. And be careful....when you pick a wrong one it can be hell. Remember girls are pretty blind and deaf when it comes to men. They confuse kindness with weakness. And also remember, its her job to want a relationship. They behave like men these days...all fun and freedom and no responsibility, so you have to be even tougher than them.
2ndIINone Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 They confuse kindness with weakness. and all to often anymore.
DanielMadr Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 and all to often anymore. Im sorry. I have trouble to undestand your sentence. It was typed in a hurry or Im missing something...like a neuron.
Curmudgeon Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 There is one more thing....no guy wants to settle down and likes to keep his backdoor open. WRONG! That couldn't be further from the truth. You may be speaking for yourself but you're certainly not speaking for me.
DanielMadr Posted April 17, 2007 Posted April 17, 2007 WRONG! That couldn't be further from the truth. You may be speaking for yourself but you're certainly not speaking for me. Actually I want to settle down and have kids and always wanted it. But not with anybody. She has to close the backdoors by closing hers for example. Its not about when but with whom. And Im sure you are the same way as me, that you dont like to be stripped of your freedom. Nobody likes it. Only when you are tired, frustrated and lazy you want to be locked at home. Dont you think?
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