Touche Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Oh, I do. I just wonder that sometimes when I meet all of these "winners". Incidentally, the nice guy that I met yesterday, I tend to wonder if he's REALLY a nice guy. I asked why he got a divorce and he said because his ex is crazy. And I found out it was a very messy divorce where she and her parents spent six figures trying to drive him into the ground and keep him from having any custody. I used to hear a man's divorce story and think "Oh you poor thing!". Now I hear a man's divorce story and say: "Hmmm....wonder why she did/said that....." That's just basing it on my past experiences where their divorce stories ended up having more to them than they told me. That's I mean. Don't do that. My H told me the ex was crazy and it turned out she really WAS! She's bi-polar among other things. I think you can strike a healthy balance between thinking "you poor thing" and "what did HE do to make the wife crazy?" So shoot for something more in the middle. Hear them out and then judge for YOURSELF based on his ACTIONS when he's with you. Like I said, don't pre-judge. Also, pay attention to how he speaks about his family and friends. Lots of clues can be gleaned from that.
alphamale Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 In every divorce or relationship breakup, there's always he said/she said. Try listening to a narcissist's side and it will be "me" said. everyone is a narcissist TBF....it only the degree that varies.
Touche Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 everyone is a narcissist TBF....it only the degree that varies. You stole that from me. I've always said that. Now go find your own material!
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 To me a narcissist is someone who has far exceeded the line drawn in the sand by the two parties who have entered into a relationship. A person like this doesn't even consider the other person in their decision-making, regardless of impact to the next party. It's as if the other person is invisible. A narcissist is completely selfish, self-centered, self-focused and self-delusional.
alphamale Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 A narcissist is completely selfish, self-centered, self-focused and self-delusional. that describes most people
Touche Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 To me a narcissist is someone who has far exceeded the line drawn in the sand by the two parties who have entered into a relationship. A person like this doesn't even consider the other person in their decision-making, regardless of impact to the next party. It's as if the other person is invisible. A narcissist is completely selfish, self-centered, self-focused and self-delusional. It's true. And we are ALL those things...it's really a matter of degree though. A true narcissist, in the classic sense, displays those traits to the nth degree.
Pyro Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 To me a narcissist is someone who has far exceeded the line drawn in the sand by the two parties who have entered into a relationship. A person like this doesn't even consider the other person in their decision-making, regardless of impact to the next party. It's as if the other person is invisible. A narcissist is completely selfish, self-centered, self-focused and self-delusional. This is true, but like some of the others have said, we are all selfish to a certain degree but a narcissist is COMPLETELY selfish.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 That's I mean. Don't do that. My H told me the ex was crazy and it turned out she really WAS! She's bi-polar among other things. I think you can strike a healthy balance between thinking "you poor thing" and "what did HE do to make the wife crazy?" So shoot for something more in the middle. Hear them out and then judge for YOURSELF based on his ACTIONS when he's with you. Like I said, don't pre-judge. Also, pay attention to how he speaks about his family and friends. Lots of clues can be gleaned from that. Oh don't worry, I still always give them the benefit of the doubt. It usually backfires on me, but I do. As for what you said about what they say about their family and friends....I don't know if that's a good thing to base it on. The guy that I described above (that was meeting those other women) spoke well of his family and friends.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 You know, I was just talking to the "nice guy" on the phone just now and I realized that the nice guys don't create much sexual tension. I think that's a big factor. I've got the guy who does triathalons and the guy who likes to take walks occasionally and I take the triatholon guy. Why aren't the triathalon guys ever good with relationships??? They DO create sexual tension though. Maybe I require too high of an excitement level.
Island Girl Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Ok, so I am reluctant and distant but he keeps working on me. Over time he makes it sound like I'm the special one (and told me that I was number 1) and that he would commit to me, whereas to anyone else, he wouldn't. We talked all the time but had not met yet. He mentions the future and wants to plan a trip together. He tells me he dates others but he did not tell me he planned to meet anyone else where I lived when he came to visit in a few months. He was in pursuit mode and you were challenging. His behavior started to change ...he became distant.....and I started to call him on it. I also became insecure. He began to cut me down for things. You "bought in". Meaning your challenge factor went away because you were getting sprung hook line and sinker. When his behavior started to change -- so should yours have -- but not becoming needy and insecure which is what you did - but more assertive and "call me when you have a better attitude I don't need this BYE". When the time came for him to come to my area he then tells me that he is meeting several others here as well. He told me that he had been upfront with me from the start by telling me that he dated other women. He told me how honest he had been about it all. The second you accepted the fact that he is dating other women you became one of the masses. If you'll accept it, they'll do it. My guess is you were bothered by other women but let it slide. Don't let things that bother you slide. Draw a line in the sand and if it is crossed -- move on. Thing is, he knew if he had told me that he was meeting other women in my area when he was going to be visiting, I would have stopped talking to him long ago. In your area or not in your area - the other women thing bothered you and you looked the other way. You sacrificed your needs and desires willingly. I said to him that I'll bet he sends them all the same charming emails he had sent me. He said that if he wanted to, he had every right to send them the same ones. (hey, I guess he knew what worked). Why would you even make this comment? -- I know how it comes across, hurt and needy even if the words were said in anger. It betrays your lack of self esteem. The whole relationship does. I can understand the attraction to these men. They are my type as well. On the outset they very much could be described as narcissistic. The ones I have dated I have found not to be but it has always taken some time to get below that surface. They lower that exterior if they get close. Generally I have found women throw themselves head over heels at the slightest bit of attention from them. I have witnessed the hurt these women go through in the very rapid end. You have to be extremely confident and secure to have a successful relationship with them. Weakness or insecurity can kill it in an instant.
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 It's true. And we are ALL those things...it's really a matter of degree though. A true narcissist, in the classic sense, displays those traits to the nth degree. This is true, but like some of the others have said, we are all selfish to a certain degree but a narcissist is COMPLETELY selfish. Yup, I agree with both of you. It's a real narcissist that I'm talking about, not your average person.
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 that describes most people No it doesn't. Your average person has empathy and consideration for others, regardless if it's enforced by law. You aren't talking about a real narcissist.
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 You have to be extremely confident and secure to have a successful relationship with them. Weakness or insecurity can kill it in an instant. Or be willing to be completely mowed under by them. The background little woman to serve his needs and abide by his godliness...
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 He was in pursuit mode and you were challenging. You "bought in". Meaning your challenge factor went away because you were getting sprung hook line and sinker. When his behavior started to change -- so should yours have -- but not becoming needy and insecure which is what you did - but more assertive and "call me when you have a better attitude I don't need this BYE". The second you accepted the fact that he is dating other women you became one of the masses. If you'll accept it, they'll do it. My guess is you were bothered by other women but let it slide. Don't let things that bother you slide. Draw a line in the sand and if it is crossed -- move on. In your area or not in your area - the other women thing bothered you and you looked the other way. You sacrificed your needs and desires willingly. Why would you even make this comment? -- I know how it comes across, hurt and needy even if the words were said in anger. It betrays your lack of self esteem. The whole relationship does. I can understand the attraction to these men. They are my type as well. On the outset they very much could be described as narcissistic. The ones I have dated I have found not to be but it has always taken some time to get below that surface. They lower that exterior if they get close. Generally I have found women throw themselves head over heels at the slightest bit of attention from them. I have witnessed the hurt these women go through in the very rapid end. You have to be extremely confident and secure to have a successful relationship with them. Weakness or insecurity can kill it in an instant. I've been pretty confident and controlled with him lately. So what next?
Island Girl Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Or be willing to be completely mowed under by them. The background little woman to serve his needs and abide by his godliness... That is the woman who gets hurt over and over again who becomes a doormat. Cheated on, discarded, etc. That isn't a strong woman. It is a woman who has allowed her self esteem to suffer at some point or possibly had only "borrowed" self esteem to begin with.
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 That is the woman who gets hurt over and over again who becomes a doormat. Cheated on, discarded, etc. That isn't a strong woman. It is a woman who has allowed her self esteem to suffer at some point or possibly had only "borrowed" self esteem to begin with. If you want life with a narcissist, it will either be a constant battle for personal rights, where you will always have to be the mother figure and the mature one, or you will be the doormat wife. Not something that appeals to me. Equality is not about a constant battle.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 He was in pursuit mode and you were challenging. You "bought in". Meaning your challenge factor went away because you were getting sprung hook line and sinker. When his behavior started to change -- so should yours have -- but not becoming needy and insecure which is what you did - but more assertive and "call me when you have a better attitude I don't need this BYE". The second you accepted the fact that he is dating other women you became one of the masses. If you'll accept it, they'll do it. My guess is you were bothered by other women but let it slide. Don't let things that bother you slide. Draw a line in the sand and if it is crossed -- move on. In your area or not in your area - the other women thing bothered you and you looked the other way. You sacrificed your needs and desires willingly. Why would you even make this comment? -- I know how it comes across, hurt and needy even if the words were said in anger. It betrays your lack of self esteem. The whole relationship does. I can understand the attraction to these men. They are my type as well. On the outset they very much could be described as narcissistic. The ones I have dated I have found not to be but it has always taken some time to get below that surface. They lower that exterior if they get close. Generally I have found women throw themselves head over heels at the slightest bit of attention from them. I have witnessed the hurt these women go through in the very rapid end. You have to be extremely confident and secure to have a successful relationship with them. Weakness or insecurity can kill it in an instant. I've been pretty confident and controlled with him lately. So what next?
Island Girl Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 If you want life with a narcissist, it will either be a constant battle for personal rights, where you will always have to be the mother figure and the mature one, or you will be the doormat wife. Not something that appeals to me. Equality is not about a constant battle. The question is - whether this guy is a true narcissist or not. I have dated many gentlemen who may have appeared to be in some characteristics but are not truly narcissistic. I know a woman whose husband IS a narcissist. He is a classic textbook case. I wouldn't put up with him or his behaviors. I do not know how she does it. The guys I dated -- and now married -- were just very good looking talented athletes. Strong egos to be sure - but not narcissists.
Island Girl Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I've been pretty confident and controlled with him lately. So what next? It is long distance and mistakes have already been made. Stop talking to him - go NC with this guy and move on.
Trialbyfire Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 The question is - whether this guy is a true narcissist or not. I have dated many gentlemen who may have appeared to be in some characteristics but are not truly narcissistic. I know a woman whose husband IS a narcissist. He is a classic textbook case. I wouldn't put up with him or his behaviors. I do not know how she does it. The guys I dated -- and now married -- were just very good looking talented athletes. Strong egos to be sure - but not narcissists. From the information provided by the OP, he appears to be manipulatively controlling, self-centered and non-compassionate. Big red flags for me. As for strong egos, I quite like people with healthy egos, where healthy is the optimum word.
Author sweetscarlet Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 It is long distance and mistakes have already been made. Stop talking to him - go NC with this guy and move on. So what if mistakes have been made and it's long distance? That doesn't mean it's hopeless. Have another question for you specifically. You claim that you've tamed many a player. Can I ask how old they were?
Island Girl Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 So what if mistakes have been made and it's long distance? That doesn't mean it's hopeless. Why even put the effort in when you can just find another guy? -- He is not so great. You can find another one. Have another question for you specifically. You claim that you've tamed many a player. Can I ask how old they were? Various ages -- 19 to late 30's.
nicki Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 The only player worth taming is the guy who really isn't a player, just very charming and a great "catch." This guy is a good guy underneath, waiting for the right woman, a true equal. I have one big requirement in a potential boyfriend. He better not be selfish. A healthy ego with good boundaries? Yes. Selfish behavior without any thought to me or my feelings. NOPE. I am not to be used by any man for his own gain. Mutual gain? Yes. Back to the poster's original post. Marry the guy who stays home and cuts the lawn every weekend. Those guys make the best husbands. You will change your criteria about what is exciting when you get married. Sometimes "exciting" bady boy type of guys are really just dysfunctional guys you have to bail out of jail.
Touche Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Nicki, I really liked your post...great insights there. I think as we get older we really DO get "excited" by different things. I don't think I would have appreciated my husband had I met him in my 20's for example. Honesty, loyalty, integrity are all qualities to get excited about. Also, on the taming thing. I never wanted to "tame" anyone. To me that's another word for changing someone. And we all know how well that works!
nicki Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Yes, Touche, exactly! Tame = change. The older I get the more I accept the person as they are, not what I think they could be. Honesty, loyalty and integrity sound great to me! (and it's a plus if he will do ALL the yard work and wash the car) Maybe we date the bad boys in our twenties so we will appreciate the REALLY great guys in our thirties and forties!
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