PoshPrincess Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I have to say I wouldn't want exMM to read my posts on here, whether we were still together or not. I would personally feel it was an invasion of my privacy. I feel posting on here is like keeping a diary in some ways. I did tell him once that I had been on this site but as he is not the sharpest tool in the box (bless him) I doubt he would have thought to go on here and probably wouldn't remember the name anyway! My log in name should be very obvious to him if he did as it has significance to our R but as I say, I doubt he would think to come on here in the first place. I think I told him about it more for the fact that HE would post on here. I wanted an insight into the truth about how he felt but then he probably wouldn't want to post if he knew I was going to read it. Or wouldn't post the truth anyway. We pretty much poured out all our feelings to each other when we were together and I totally opened my heart when we finished. I hear the odd thing through friends but sometimes I suppose it's best to let sleeping dogs lie. What good would it do me to hear how he felt? The fact is, he is not with me. Simple as. That is unlikely to change. Ever.
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Empty, wow, see if this makes any sense. I honestly feel that he is in love w/ me, the problem is this. I say that, and then I contradict it by saying well if he did, then why isnt he w/ me? When he looks in my eyes, man, I swear I can see the love he has for me. He remembers things I have said, conversations we have had, my family, friends situations we've discussed. One issue is this, when we split last year for 2 months, when we started back up, we only see each other now about once every 2-3 weeks, and we talk about the same as well. So those in between times, are very trying and confusing for me. When he's w/ me, I have no doubts, but a few days later, bam I am doubtful again. He got a promotion, so his days off are during the week, plus we live about 45 min from each other, so that is hard. The biggest issue I have is, if he loves me soooo much, as he claims, why doesn't he leave her? I don't get it. He told me, he is scared that what if it doesn't work out, then he will be alone, but when you really love someone, nothing would stop me from trying at least... Does that make any sense?
empty906 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 The biggest issue I have is, if he loves me soooo much, as he claims, why doesn't he leave her? I don't get it. He told me, he is scared that what if it doesn't work out, then he will be alone, but when you really love someone, nothing would stop me from trying at least... That quote has a lot to say about your relationship with him. Some more questions here: (Kenzo, do you mind?) -Why doesn't he want leave her? And what is there that keeps him at home? -He said the words, "I love you"? -The bold quote doesn't sound to stable. Is he unhappy at home, happy with you, and afraid to commit to D? How long have you two had a R (or A:))? If you already said I apologize for asking again. -Would loving someone be all it takes to cause you to do everything possible to be with them? I think you need a little bit more than just your love for them. You also need reciprocated feelings and confidence in those feelings. There also all the social and family issues that must be dealt with. Something is there in his mind that he isn't willing to let go of yet. You may be able to convince him otherwise but most likely he needs to convince himself to either let go of it/them or you. Seeing every 2-3 weeks is enough NC to get you started in letting go but after you see him you have to start all over again. That has got to suck!
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Empty, this is how it is, lol. We started the A in Jan 8, 2006. From the beginning he has claimed that he was very unhappy at home. Other people have stated that all they do is fight. He actually left her, and then we got into an argument, and we had NC for almost 2 months, during which time he went back to her. When we began talking again, he told me that he couldn't bear the way his son was acting towards him. This is not his biological son, but he has raised him as his own for the last 6 years and this boy calls him daddy, but when he left the home, his son acted like he didn't want to talk to him. Which affected him greatly. Plus she was begging him to come home. When he went back, things were fine for about 3 months, and then it all went back to the way it was before. He told me that I scared him into believing that we could make it work and then when we got into that fight, I said something very hurtful, he decided that it would end up being the same way w/ me. Now he says that he knows it wouldn't be the same, yet he is still scared to leave, b/c he would have to get another house, property, take the chance on his son not speaking to him again, he's almost 14, for something that may or may not work. Also he's 39 and I am 32, so he thinks the age is a big difference, and years down the road, I wouldn't want to be tied to an "old man". Which I totally disagree w/. We've both told each other that we love each other, since about April of last year. Yes, he has looked me in my eyes and told me the he loved me, was in love w/ me. He says that he is happiest when he is w/ me, that I make him feel like no one ever has, yet at the same time, he looks at me like a rattlesnake, if that makes any sense, because I have the power to hurt him. I think he thinks that this is just a thing for me, IDK. I am single, so it is easier for me to say that I would do anything to be w/ someone that I truly love. Sorry it is so long, but once i start up about this it is hard to stop, lol. Does any of this make any sense??? Yes, the 2-3 week NC sucks. Just recently I have begun to feel like it is not enough, it used to be. I want more, which I have told him this. There are no secrets between us.
Author Kenzo Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Your nuts, Kenzo! I did the same stuff you are doing with him when it came to the OW. If you REALLY, honestly want to begin detaching from this guy you have to stop seeing him, texting, chating, calling, and looking at his picture. And that will be hardest thing you will have ever tried to do. I struggle every damn day not calling OW, or driving by her house to see if H is home, or emailing her, or whatever. Sometimes things are easy because I have my mind on a million different things and I am pressed for time and I don't have a minute to spare. But the quiet times suck; the alone moments which would have been spent with her are still feeling empty. Even after many weeks of NC. Back on your MM, I am still not convinced that he shares the same level of commitment that you are experiencing. And I can be totally of base here but when he got angry, or jealous, that you weren't responding to him any longer it showed a side that I don't think would be there if he cared (had love) for you like you show towards him. All I have to compare your relationship with is my own and OW and I had a lot of deep feelings shared between each other. Her pulling away hurt but the last thing I wanted to do was lash out towards her, you know? I knew why she was pulling away and I hated it but the love for that person kept me from wanting to hurt her. So I wonder if he isn't sharing the same love for you that you are seeing. His actions seem to say it isn't. What do you think, Kenzo? And if I am wrong I apologize. Well, thanks for caring, Kenzo and Babybird! I am alright but I don't want to hijack your thread here ranting about my crap. W goes for a sonogram in the morning and she is bouncing-off-the-walls happy. She has been saying 'I love you' more often lately, too. I hate it when she says that. First, don't apologize for the threadjack, I like that it has become about a lot more than just the original topic! I welcome it. So please talk away. and I like that there are newer people like myself here too! (And don't feel as if you can't rant here as well about your situation...I do care and I'd like to know how things are going!) You are a kind person and it's comforting to know you are reading and not judging. Second, we both show anger, whether or not we want to take it out on each other, it's just for very different reasons and it's so hard to think that "we" will never be. It has a lot to do with us being together on his terms, because it has to be that way. I am just so frustrated!!! With your OW, well not that it should matter, but she was also married so there were double the hurdles for you to overcome. For me, I'm single, very little baggage, and I have made it clear that there is next to nothing I wouldn't do to make this work. Like yourself, he is staying unhappily married for the kids...I asked him about his guilt today and he does feel guilty about taking time away from them that he spends with me, and in turn I feel that same guilt, different-but the same...I think you know what I mean. He does not feel guilty about the cheating, I have mentioned before that he has made the strides to fix the problems in their marriage, some things are just to big to overcome. From his side--they had a fight the other day, and she threw a rolodex at him, while he was laying in the bed, he jumped up and the kids saw all of this, prompting his daughter to beg him not to leave...maybe he overstated her reaction to their fight, I'll never know, but it just seems that he was trying to prove that he has to stay for them. I think kids are so much more attentive to these things than they are given credit for, especially if she felt like he was angry enough to leave. But then again is it right for a child to see that kind of display...how healthy can that be??? If they are going to put on the show then it should carry over to in front of the children as well, I mean after all they are the reason for them staying together in the first place, so subject them to seeing these angry displays??? I'm starting to ramble on and on here, but the bottom line is we wound up seeing each other last night and fighting a bit, ending our time together half "making up" and I spent the better half of the rest of the night writing in my journal trying to sort my feelings...and then I wrote something that I probably should've posted here but instead sent him in an e-mail...and he and I spent a lot of the day disecting it and ultimately, we did break-up...not in a good way where I feel like I can maybe move on with clear conscience...in the bad way where now I am just hurt and angry, and my stomach is twisted in knots...tension headache and all, but writing it here is actually helping.
Author Kenzo Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Empty, this is how it is, lol. Also he's 39 and I am 32, so he thinks the age is a big difference, and years down the road, I wouldn't want to be tied to an "old man". Which I totally disagree w/. We've both told each other that we love each other, since about April of last year. Yes, he has looked me in my eyes and told me the he loved me, was in love w/ me. He says that he is happiest when he is w/ me, that I make him feel like no one ever has, yet at the same time, he looks at me like a rattlesnake, if that makes any sense, because I have the power to hurt him. I think he thinks that this is just a thing for me, IDK. I am single, so it is easier for me to say that I would do anything to be w/ someone that I truly love. Sorry it is so long, but once i start up about this it is hard to stop, lol. Does any of this make any sense??? Yes, the 2-3 week NC sucks. Just recently I have begun to feel like it is not enough, it used to be. I want more, which I have told him this. There are no secrets between us. Hey rdnkgrl- I can absolutely relate...I'm 33 he's 42, he said all the time he's old I'm young, go find a young single guy, I'm holding you back...blah blah blah... and also because I too am single, he feels like it's so easy for me to say I'd do anything to be with him, and the secrets part holy sh*t...same words from "my" MM. Also the "rattlesnake" comment and being able to hurt him...the craziest thing for him is that with a few pushes of buttons, I could destroy the little world he has built with me up in the clouds and the reality of his real life. He knows that I could do this, but he also knows it's not my MO...but I could do it, although I would never ever would do it. I'm angry right now, and I hate these things that they say and do and I'm so sad and empty at the same time thinking that what has been routine for me chatting all day, long talks on his drive home, the anticipation of seeing him on "our" nights...that's all over now, god if I only have the strength to keep it up, I am doubting myself every thirty seconds and looking at the phone hoping to see some communication from him...I've said it before and I'll say it again...I am out of my mind!!!!!
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Kenzo, I feel so bad for you! I truly hope you get to feeling a lil better at least. I agree w/ what you are saying about the kids. I have asked myself the same question, why won't he leave for the sake of his son, when they fight all the time, loudly, in front of him? That has to be emotionally hard on the child. My parents never fought in front of us, and when they divorced when I was 15, sure I was upset, but at the same time I was so relieved b/c there was so much tension. I could only imagine if they fought all the time. I do the same thing you do, (journal) b/c sometimes you feel that if you say it to someone they are not going to truly understand where you are coming from. So keep up w/ that, I say. If you ever want to talk, you can message me. Not sure how that works here, new to this site, lol. Anyways, I just wanted to say good luck, and I truly hope you feel better after a while.
whichwayisup Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 The biggest issue I have is, if he loves me soooo much, as he claims, why doesn't he leave her? I don't get it. He told me, he is scared that what if it doesn't work out, then he will be alone, but when you really love someone, nothing would stop me from trying at least... Does that make any sense? Because he loves his wife too. This isn't about WHO he loves more, but remember he has a history and has built a life with his wife. If they have kids, that's a bond between them that you don't have with him. The part I hilighted in bold - There's your honest answer. He isn't willing to get divorced and take a chance with you. So, as long as you stay the OW in his life, that's all you'll be. Is that enough for you? Because I'm sure he'd be perfectly happy if things stayed the way they are now - He gets TWO women in his life and HE stays fulfilled 100%.
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 WWI, I know this is true. He has his cake and eating it too. I just know that right now at this moment in time, I don't want to let him go. Stupid I know, I do know that I am starting to get fed up. I know he loves her, he's told me that. Then he says that he has never had feelings for someone the way that he feels for me, and that he loves me more than he has ever loved his wife. The longer this A goes on, the more I wonder if that is true.
Freedom Now Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Coming from the other side of the affair....I was the OW and I am officially OUT of the mess for good: If he tells you that he loves her, his wife ~ that is your answer. Walk away. Better yet: RUN.
whichwayisup Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 WWI, I know this is true. He has his cake and eating it too. I just know that right now at this moment in time, I don't want to let him go. Stupid I know, I do know that I am starting to get fed up. I know he loves her, he's told me that. Then he says that he has never had feelings for someone the way that he feels for me, and that he loves me more than he has ever loved his wife. The longer this A goes on, the more I wonder if that is true. It is wrong of him to be comparing the love he has for his wife to what he feels for you. I'm sure he cares for you, and obviously is very emotionally attached to you, and he may 'feel' like he's inlove with you due to it being an affair, both of you getting ALL good stuff - Not the daily grind of stuff life throws at you. It's all based on fantasy and good feelings. But, the reality is, he isn't leaving his wife, he doesn't want to. Rephrase it to "He is more emotionally attached to me than his wife" but not enough to for him to end his marriage. By staying, you're settling to be his second best. By staying, you're losing yourself, self esteem and also self respect. I hope one day you realize you're wasting love on him, and missing out on so much more in life, missing out on what a real honest and true relationship with a single man can bring into your life. You're enabling him to keep life as it is. IF you really want to see how much he loves you, tell him goodbye and to call you when he's officially divorced. (Make sure you see the papers to have proof.) And then go full on NC with him. Go read Ratingsguy's thread.
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 All of this I have said to myself. I know this is true. I have even contemplated telling him that too. Actually, this week I have seriously been considering it. I have been pretty P****** off w/ this whole situation. I even told him 2 weeks ago, that I knew he loved me but not enough. He didn't say anything, that was answer enough. So yeah, I've been thinking that NC may be the best thing for me to do. And just focus more on my kids and work.
whichwayisup Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Sometimes silence IS your answer and him not saying anything actually IS your answer. He isn't going to do anything, period. IF you want him, stay the OW. IF you want more than he can offer you, you won't get that from him. The choice is yours. Stay or go. If you stay, accept your role to him as the OW. If you go, you'll be happier in the long run and later in the future.
Author Kenzo Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Kenzo, I feel so bad for you! I truly hope you get to feeling a lil better at least. I agree w/ what you are saying about the kids. I have asked myself the same question, why won't he leave for the sake of his son, when they fight all the time, loudly, in front of him? That has to be emotionally hard on the child. My parents never fought in front of us, and when they divorced when I was 15, sure I was upset, but at the same time I was so relieved b/c there was so much tension. I could only imagine if they fought all the time. I do the same thing you do, (journal) b/c sometimes you feel that if you say it to someone they are not going to truly understand where you are coming from. So keep up w/ that, I say. If you ever want to talk, you can message me. Not sure how that works here, new to this site, lol. Anyways, I just wanted to say good luck, and I truly hope you feel better after a while. My parents divorced when I was 20, middle sister 19, my youngest sister was 10, she (the youngest) is now happily married and middle sister in a very very twisted and dysfunctional marriage, and I am single and involved in a very unhealthy situation, with doubts that any relationship can stand the test of time...so there goes my opinion of the conventional wisdom "staying for the kids". My youngest sister got to witness my parents happy and apart, and as such has a solid marriage and a wise outlook on love...us older siblings, not so much... Right now I am so jerked up by todays events. He did call after all was said and done and we re-hashed a little, he definitely left the door open fo rhimself and contends that he may not be able to not contact me, and as you might already know I may not be able to resist him not resisting (what??)
Babybird Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 If both of you knew what MM was thinking do you think would it make things between you better? I think it would DEFINITELY help us men in trying to figure you women out! With all of your subtly, your signals, your interpretations, uhhh!, you keep us constantly confused and guessing. Guys just aren't usually like that, seriously. You should easily be able to tell if we like you, it's all over our face. If we remember things you said, we like you. If we know you like this but not that, we like you. If we commit your life details to memory we like you. We aren't complicated with subtle hints or signals, usually what we are thinking shows. But the same doesn't apply with you, does it? Rdnkgrl, you think maybe MM doesn't feel the same as you? Why would you think that? I'm so glad that I'm not a man trying to figure things out with women. Half the time I don't understand myself!! As far as knowing exactly whats going on in his head...thats the terrifying part. The OW isn't lying about her feeling or if she wants to be with him forever. There is that chance that he is and as much as we love them and claim to know them so well for some reason there is always that lingering doubt. Its a pain in the ...but we created the bed that we lie in. So if we have the fears about his feelings towards us and whether he will leave that is exactly the mis-trust that everyone has been warning us about.
Babybird Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 It is wrong of him to be comparing the love he has for his wife to what he feels for you. I'm not directing this question specifically relating to affairs but don't we all compares loves? If you look back at your first love, then your husband, then a boyfriend haven't they all felt like different loves? One might've felt stronger than the other, or one might never have been love at all. For him to compare the way he feels for her to the way he feels about his wife seems perfectly natural. I can never remember which thread I read things in, I think this one, but there are people talking about the love fro MM compared to the R they have now. Some said they will never love another like MM again and some said that they have already found a stronger love. Is it different because he is still with his W? I know like many others that I have thought if he loved me enough he would leave her, and he must love her more because he hasn't left. Just food for thought. It is a little twisted to compare but I think its unavoidable.
greengoddess Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 I have told MM about this site but he always forgets the name of it. Whenever he asks me what it is I tell him he wouldn't want to come here anyway. He asks why and I tell him because it'll piss him off to hear what a dog he is and how he's never going to leave. He would figure out who I am in a heartbeat. This right here should tell you something about the relationship. You've told him something that means something to you and he can't even take the time to remember the website let alone look at it? It's not a very difficult web address to remember. oh and I'm sorry I will stay out of this thread after this comment. I think it was nice you were having a nice conversation with like people.
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 WWI, I know what you are saying is true. Many times, I have sat there and gotten all upset about this whole thing, him not calling etc.., then turn around and tell myself to just deal w/ it, b/c it is my decision. I am going to call him and end it. I don't want to talk to him about it, b/c of what may or may not happen. So I am gonna call and just leave him a v/m telling him my feelings about why I need to end it w/ him. And then the true NC will begin.
Author Kenzo Posted April 19, 2007 Author Posted April 19, 2007 If you ever want to talk, you can message me. Not sure how that works here, new to this site, lol. Anyways, I just wanted to say good luck, and I truly hope you feel better after a while. Thank you so much, someone said once that it's like 100 posts for PM priviledges, but I would love to soon enough. And thank you for your thoughts...I see you're going to really do the NC thing...I wish you all the luck in the world...I hope it works, I don't know how to not talk to him. But I can really do without all of this hurt and despair. The thought of not having that contact with with him leaves me with a big empty feeling... I admire your strength, I hope to someday be in your shoes!
Author Kenzo Posted April 19, 2007 Author Posted April 19, 2007 I'm sorry I will stay out of this thread after this comment. I think it was nice you were having a nice conversation with like people. You know Babybird, a lot of what you say is the truth and you just put it out there, not trying to hurt anyone, but just to convey your feelings and opinions on a forum that is meant for just that. I think people with the mindset of greengoddess just come here to take their aggressions out and it's just plain wrong, nothing you've said has been mean or malicious. I like reading your POV, and I think you have a lot of really important and relevant things to add to this discussion
empty906 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Wow! Kenzo and rdnkgrl both had tough days today! I know you two are going crazy in your heads right now and, really, I don't know of anything that makes it better or makes it go away. Sorry... It sounds stupid but time will pass and it will get easier, at some point. It certainly doesn't help with what you are going through TODAY but I am on the path where you started walking. You will make it, you know you will, it is just going to be hell. As for the NC, I say bring it on!!! I think you both are going to need a lot of strength over the next few weeks as you struggle with the idea of losing him and that void he filled. All those racing thoughts, the desire to call, the need to see his face, they are all very tough to fight against but remember that all this is just in your head. They are only thoughts and our minds can be refocused onto other subjects just as our mind can be fixated on the lost love. Busy with work, out with friends, watching a movie, anything that eats up lots of time while directing your focus is what you need.
empty906 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 I am going to call him and end it. I don't want to talk to him about it, b/c of what may or may not happen. So I am gonna call and just leave him a v/m telling him my feelings about why I need to end it w/ him. And then the true NC will begin. So did you make the call, rdnkgrl?
empty906 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Also the "rattlesnake" comment and being able to hurt him...the craziest thing for him is that with a few pushes of buttons, I could destroy the little world he has built with me up in the clouds and the reality of his real life. He knows that I could do this, but he also knows it's not my MO...but I could do it, although I would never ever would do it. You know, Kenzo, a lot of pissed off OW get vengeful after a period of time and go for the guy's throat. And his wallet. If they don't get him then she don't either. I think your MM better tread lightly as you now hold his little world in your hands. You may not see yourself going that far right now but if he pushes your buttons just right you may surprise yourself.
rdnkgrl31 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 No, I haven't made the call. My son thinks that I should tell him to his face. I am still debating this. Who knows we haven't spoken in 2 weeks almost, so maybe he is starting the NC, and just isn't telling me.
Author Kenzo Posted April 19, 2007 Author Posted April 19, 2007 You know, Kenzo, a lot of pissed off OW get vengeful after a period of time and go for the guy's throat. And his wallet. If they don't get him then she don't either. I think your MM better tread lightly as you now hold his little world in your hands. You may not see yourself going that far right now but if he pushes your buttons just right you may surprise yourself. Well his throat yes, I want to kill him right now, but he can keep his wallet, and I really would never hurt him family wise... If it's as bad as he says it is then he already has his punishment enough without me doing a thing. And he did push my buttons today, and told him how lucky he is that I am the way I am, another OW might not be so kind right now...I only dangle it in front of him, I know it's bad but I have to let him know that what he did with and to me is wrong and that there's a possibility of me using this information, cruel-I know, but keeps him in check when he goes on the defensive. I told him he had to make the decision about us getting together tonight and he said that he wants to but he knows it's best FOR ME if we don't, bottomline we are not, he is such a martyr sometimes!!! rdnkgrl--so your son knows all about this?
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