BS' (Female or Male) Some Questions

[SoxPrincess]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

[outofdarkness]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc). In looking back, the signs were there, but I totally trusted him...Any questions I asked regarding his whereabouts, behavior, etc., were easily explained away by him and readily excepted by me...Mostly the excuse was that he had to work, and I never questioned this due to the income that he had coming in; very high...gotta work alot to get to this point..

 

The main OW of 10 years wrote me a letter, and that is how I found out. I also was in the car w/ him just prior to her sending the letter when another OW called and I knew that it was not a business call.

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A? I was asked to call her in the letter to "compare notes"..I did, and the conversation was very awkward and extremely painful..I feel that she was honest w/ me in the sense that she said exactly what they had rehearsed for the entire 10 years. Yes, I wanted to know as much as possible..this is human nature. As time went on in the conversation, she did reveal more then he wanted me to know b/c she was scorned..She was very respectful and apologetic and said that he had told her that I had known and was ok with it. When I told her that I was not, she said that had she known that I was completely in the dark, she would not have continued the A..

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"? After the OW spilled the beans, I confronted him and no, I do not feel that he came completely clean w/ me..Giving me snippets is a great way to phrase it..Yes, he constantly tried to minimize the A's..He couldn't do it so much w/ the 10 year A, but did so constantly regarding the other A's..The things I heard were; "I needed a friend", I ONLY had oral sex, I could not bring myself to do the real thing w/ anyone but you", " It was only lunches", " I only traveled one time w/ the main OW and I hated it", "It's an addiction..still unsure of this excuse.", I could probably list more but those are the main ones..Yes, I was and still am hungry for every detail I can get my hands on. I don't know if all BS are this way, but it is my personality to want to know everything and to keep digging until I do..

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him * Yes, we decided to stay M b/c he had a breakdown when I filed for D, and begged, pleaded and fell apart..Yes, I placed many restrictions on him including but not limited to checking his phone, e mail, etc...I cannot check his work e mail, as I do not have access the voice mail pass code. All I can do w/ that is ask at random times to see it.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW? I did not know any of the OW's although the main one has mutual acquaintances w/ me..One other one had children at the same school but was not a friend..Yes, I was terrified that someone would show up at the door, etc...It's been almost two years and nothing has happened, so I guess either he's still seeing them or they are just really respectful and sane W..I blamed my H mostly for bringing the OW into our lives..Yes, I was angry that there are even OW's around, but I realize the lies that were told to them..Some were told that he was separated or not even M...They were lied to just as I was. I am sure that some were aware that he was M, but I will never know and to date, noone has bothered myself or our kids. I still get a fair amount of hang up calls, but that's about it...

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

Hope this helps..

[serial muse]

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

 

Hi Sox. :-) Here are my answers.

 

1. For the longest time, I didn't have an inkling. My exH had recently started a job that required long hours, I was in grad school and had long hours too, and on top of that there was a pretty serious work situation at his work that he was under investigation about. So with all that going on, there was stress in our marriage but he always chalked it up to those things, and it seemed entirely plausible. I didn't even think that it might be another woman for a long time.

 

Eventually, though (after several months), nothing was making sense and I just felt in my bones that things had gone very wrong. He wouldn't respond to direct questions, however. I still didn't suspect cheating, however, because we had been together for years, and I trusted him and wanted to believe in him. Plus, we were still having sex. Heh. Finally, though, I was just so unhappy with the emotional distance and oddness and so convinced that there was something he wasn't telling me (I had asked him if there was someone else and he denied it). So, convinced he'd never tell me what I wanted to know, one night I resorted to snooping. I checked his cell phone VM. She had left some obscene messages, and others telling him she loved him and missed him. That's how I found out.

 

I confronted him the next morning. He still denied it, although I had his phone right there in my hand. Finally he admitted it. Not all of it, of course. I found out more later - but to this day I'm sure there's plenty I don't know and never will.

 

2. This is the sick part. The OW never tried to contact me. But she was living with us for a little while - about a week. It's a crazy story that adds up to my exH being a major *********. Anyway, the point is, she and I had plenty of contact, while the affair was going on, since we basically lived together. So obviously, yeah, she lied her butt off repeatedly. She apparently told him later that she felt "horribly guilty" about it. Sigh. Sure, okay. That's more than he did, I guess.

 

3. I doubt it. Stuff kept coming out, over the next few months. We went to MC for a little while, but he spent most of the time blaming everything on me, and I spent most of the time believing that. Ugh. I discovered that she wasn't the first - he told me that the first person "made it easier" to embark on the next affair. Nice. Anyway, he definitely tried to minimize it, but I think it's hard for liars to maintain a consistent story over time. So stuff came out. Like I said, to this day I'm sure there's plenty more I don't know. I wanted the details, and sometimes, he gave them to me. One thing that I always thought was interesting was how he made a point of telling me that he and the OW had spent a lot of time "planning" how to hide from me, working it all out together. I thought that was a crappy way to shift blame onto her, to be honest. Not that I think she's a fantastic person - like I said, she LIVED with us, for Christ's sake - but he kind of threw her under the bus a little, by saying that she was one of the driving forces of the affair and did a lot of the planning. I don't believe it for a minute.

 

4. During MC, I tried to place "restrictions" on my exH. He promised not to contact the OW while we worked on our marriage. He did anyway, which I know because yes, I checked his cell phone records. I also checked his email. I went on a snooping spree, because I had been lied to for so long and it just felt like once I started pulling that string, I had to keep unraveling. I just HAD to. So yep, most wives after D-Day are going to check up.

 

Even though I eventually left him, I still wrestle with that trust with other people, as a direct result of his crap. Thanks, exH!!

 

At one point, he actually offered to "be" with both of us because he didn't want to stop talking to her but didn't want to divorce me.

 

And that's when I told him, in the MC's office, that we were through. Unbelievable. I've never felt so little respect from anyone, particularly someone that I had so much trust in, in my entire life. What he said made me feel like dirt, and the only thing I could think to do in response was walk out. So I did.

 

5. I never feared her. I was very angry with her, but the truth is, I felt sorry for her. When she thought he and I might reconcile, she was apparently calling him frantically. As you do. Sigh. Who gives these men so much power?? But I was never afraid of her in any way. I did think she was a fool, though, to be honest.

 

Did I blame her? Yeah, partially. I would never say she's more responsible than he was, though. That's just silly. I did have a lot of anger with her because she lied to my face, lived with me and talked to me as though we were friendly (not friends). As I came to terms with it all, I basically decided she was doing some really crappy ***** that she wasn't going to be proud of later but she was young and insecure. He, on the other hand, was the real culprit - there was never any doubt about that. So while I wouldn't want to be friends with her and by no means do I consider her an innocent party - she knew perfectly well that he was married from Day One - I reserve most of my anger for my exH. Let's see. It's probably 80-20.

 

Hope that helps. Just one BS' point of view; I think there's often a wide range (although I'd say most BS do place the lion's share of blame on their husbands, whether they stay with them or not).

 

Edited to add: As I said, I'm one of the ones who left. I wanted to say something about why I did. Yes, I felt disrespected and unloved, but all BS are going to feel that way, to differing degrees, and some stay anyway. For many, it may be because they believe in their husbands; for many, it may be because their husbands are willing to do the hard introspective work. For many, it may be out of fear of the unknown. I'm sure it varies.

 

The reason I left is because in the end, I knew that I no longer believed in him. I realized this through MC - in therapy together, listening to him talking to this third party, I began to see that I was never going to know the whole truth. My exH was a charming man and a habitual liar, the kind of person who tells even innocuous lies to avoid any confrontation or disagreement. Still, he had always made it sound as though he wouldn't lie to me - not about things that matter, anyway. (Take heed, folks!!) And I think it just finally dawned on me, after 7 years together, that I wasn't ever going to know the truth about anything, with him. Just not ever. I think we could have eventually reconciled if I had really wanted to, to be honest, and perhaps he wouldn't even have cheated again - but it would have been a return to doubt and fear and uncertainty, possibly for the rest of my life, because he simply didn't know how to be honest, especially with himself. And I realized I couldn't support that; I wanted a different future for myself. So that's why I left.

[herenow]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

1 - I have to admit that I was so into other aspects of life (kids, work, house, etc.), that I didn't notice the signs. I'm sure they were there, but I didn't see them. I take responsibility for taking my marriage for granted. It's one of the things that I have worked on since my H's affair.

 

I found out about his affair when I tried to reach him and he was with her.

 

2 - I have never seen or spoken to the OW. She is not a part of my marriage. I first and foremost blame my H and I didn't and still do not feel that she has a place in our lives. She wanted to speak to me, but I saw no reason. I know based on a voice mail that my H shared with me that she wanted to continue to lie, so what good would anything she would have said done?

 

Since she wouldn't stop calling, we asked our therapist for advice on how to get rid of her. Together, we decided what my H would say and he made the call. She has called a couple of times since, but we choose to ignore her. I hope she will never call again, but we know what to do if she does.

 

3 - The thing about a WS coming clean is that they need to be assured that it's safe. It's like telling a child that no matter how bad the truth is, a lie will get them in more trouble. Once my H understood this he was more forthcoming about the truth.

 

I don't think I would have the information I do if we hadn't gone to a marriage counselor. I got most of the truth while in sessions. I think this is because my H felt that it was a "safe" place to discuss things that he knew would upset me. After a few months of MC, it became easier for him to open up while we were alone.

 

I needed to learn to accept the truth that I was asking for. If I went into a rage every time he told me something, I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten the details I asked for. I'm not sure I know "everything", but I know enough.

 

4 - At first, I didn't decide to stay. I kicked him out that day, no questions asked. He begged to come back. He was the one that place the "restrictions".

 

He ordered the back cell phone records so that we could put the pieces together. He shared the emails and voice mail messages. To this day, he calls me to let me know where he is and what he is doing. He is 100% available at all time. I have access to all his computer and phone accounts. He will even leave a work meeting if I call (something he didn't do before). It's been over a year and he continues to do everything he can to re-build my trust. If I had to be the one to place the rules, I wouldn't trust the sincerity of his actions.

 

5 - I would definitely blame my H if something like that would happen. The OW means nothing to me, she is not a part of my life. My marriage is with my H and he is the one that needed to fix what was missing in him. The OW is irrelevant.

[smartgirl]

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

I did suspect, a little. I should have done some investigating, but I loved and trusted him too much. It was denial plain and simple.

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

OW did not contact me. She has acted all along like I don't exist. She could care less how I feel. I have come face to face with her several times, as she works with my H. Don't have any interest in what she has to say.

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

My H told me everything I asked about. I wanted to know every detail except some aspects of the sex and he gave me complete answers. Some has been painful to live with, but most helped me to understand and move on. I do still wonder about the sexual activities, but figure it is better to stay away from that. He recognized that coming clean was the only way we were going to move on.

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

I wouldn't say I placed restrictions per se, he isn't a child. But I do expect complete transparency in our relationship and I do have "terms" on which I agreed to rebuild the marriage. The openess has been important to us feeling like an exclusive team again.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

Yes, yes and yes. She has cornered him repeatedly at work and flipped out on him. I was very much afraid at first that she would do the same here. We will both have to worry about what this woman might do to us forever. I very much resent that he gave that much power over our lives to this emotionally volatile woman. He foolishly thought they were partners in crime (she is married too) and didn't consider the risks to himself and our family.

 

So I have to ask, why do you want to know these things? I can't figure out why you are curious about some of it.

[SoxPrincess]

So I have to ask, why do you want to know these things? I can't figure out why you are curious about some of it.

 

I asked mostly out of curiosity because I know "my" side as being the exOW and I sort of know the exMM's side and I was interested in perspective from the BS; what it was like for those of you who were on the other side and how you did ( or in some cases ) did not move on from the A.

 

Recently, exMM got in touch with me after 8 months of NC and I never responded ( I am NEVER getting into a situation like that again ) and some of the things he mentioned in his email to me made me wonder about the perspective of the BS. I realize that every situation is different but I was interested in hearing all of the situations and varying opinions. Via email, exMM said his W never wanted to know any of the details (she never asked me for any when her and I talked once) and that their M was much stronger now..which obviously seems contradictory since he was contacting me again. I wondered what was the norm, was it the norm to not know any details, was it the norm to place any restrictions on the MM so he wouldn't contact OW, etc.

 

Reading the replies was interesting and I truly appreciate those of you who took the time to answer and to not think I had any ulterior motives in asking. As I said, I hoped that as a whole, we could all learn from each other on this forum.

[serial muse]

I asked mostly out of curiosity because I know "my" side as being the exOW and I sort of know the exMM's side and I was interested in perspective from the BS; what it was like for those of you who were on the other side and how you did ( or in some cases ) did not move on from the A.

 

Recently, exMM got in touch with me after 8 months of NC and I never responded ( I am NEVER getting into a situation like that again ) and some of the things he mentioned in his email to me made me wonder about the perspective of the BS. I realize that every situation is different but I was interested in hearing all of the situations and varying opinions. Via email, exMM said his W never wanted to know any of the details (she never asked me for any when her and I talked once) and that their M was much stronger now..which obviously seems contradictory since he was contacting me again. I wondered what was the norm, was it the norm to not know any details, was it the norm to place any restrictions on the MM so he wouldn't contact OW, etc.

 

Reading the replies was interesting and I truly appreciate those of you who took the time to answer and to not think I had any ulterior motives in asking. As I said, I hoped that as a whole, we could all learn from each other on this forum.

 

Sox - so it sounds like you were primarily wondering whether a BS would generally want details or not?

 

I don't know whether there's a "norm," but I have to say, I think your MM is lying when he said she doesn't want to know. I'm sure there are things she said "don't tell me" about - for example, it's incredibly painful to think about hearing details of your SO's sex life with another person. So perhaps she expressly said she didn't want to know that stuff. I'm also sure it's hard to hear your SO talk about "loving" another woman, so she may have said "don't tell me" about that. Or other details that make you real flesh - I've seen plenty of OW on these boards say they DON'T want to hear about the wife because it makes her real. So it may be that.

 

But I doubt he's telling you the truth and that she didn't ask for any details (it truly doesn't mean much that she didn't ask you - I didn't ask the OW anything but it's certainly not because I didn't want to know; it's because I was in serious shock and it's hard to think clearly of all the stuff you want to know in that brief period when you might have the wherewithal to ask. Think about it from a wife's perspective - it took me several weeks before I could think in complete sentences, to be honest.) She may have asked and then retracted - as in, "I can't handle this right now" or may have edited her questions - but none of that means she wasn't curious or doesn't want the truth. It's just hard to know where to begin and how much information you can really deal with at once, when everything's changed so suddenly.

 

The whole "why doesn't she want details" thing is really difficult, perhaps, for someone who isn't on the "shock" end to understand. It's one thing if you've known about it all for months, years even. It's another when you found out a day or week before. It takes a LONG time to process the discovery that your world has been rocked, and to figure out what you do and don't want to know, what you can and can't handle, what's real and what's lies, and so forth. It's just an incredible amount of information and emotion to sift through all at once.

 

More likely, he's telling you this because he's really trying to tell you that you two have secrets from her still. It's a highly manipulative thing to do, on top of contacting you again at all - a way of saying that he's still on "your side," a way of feeling you out even as he says his marriage is great. I'd take his words with a huge heaping serving of salt if I were you.

[SoxPrincess]

Thank you for your reply serial muse, it really helped me understand a bit more as to the details issue. As I said before, because I am not the BW, it is difficult for me to understand some issues and the "shock" issue is one that I can relate to on my end but I know that it is a completely a different kind of shock to the W.

 

From the email I received from exMM, he made it seem like everything was hunky doory (which is fine by me, I have no interest in him at all ) and the main reason they didn't get into a detailed discussion of the A is because "I didn't want to hurt her any more than I already have". Perhaps she did inquire about some details but he didn't divulge any because he didn't want to cause her any more pain. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word he says anymore and have since blocked him from contacting me in any manner but his statements just made me curious and I've tried to learn as much as I can in the wake of the biggest mistake of my life.

 

One of the worst things for me has been dealing with the guilt and knowing that there is likely someone out there (BW) who hates me with every grain of her body and doesn't even know me. I hate myself for being weak and getting involved in an A and for making the most stupidest choices of my life knowing I am a smart, educated and well rounded human being.

 

I really appreciate all of you who did answer my questions and who have offered insight.

[Salicious Crumb]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

Nope...what my wife did was a complete surprise...I had no idea.

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

No...the other guy didn't ever contact me...and he'd be better off if he didn't...I'm not a violent person, but have trained for years in the MA's and would love to get some easy practice in.

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

She didn't come clean...I had to pry it out of her after I found about about it from a jilted ex-friend of hers.

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often?

 

I don't require that my wife check in...but she is no longer going to make me stay home with the kids while she goes to clubs.

 

Going out with her friends drinking is now over....she doesn't like it?...she can pack her bags and get the f#ck out.

 

Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

 

No...never asked for anything like this...I am too emotionally and physically exhausted...and too busy to care about such things.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

I'd never fear it...if that ever happened, the guy would find himself with a lateral vascular neck restraint slapped on his ass so quick, he wouldn't have time to say uncle before he passes out.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Serial Muse... that was a great post, should be a thread on it own.

 

The reason I left is because in the end, I knew that I no longer believed in him. I realized this through MC - in therapy together, listening to him talking to this third party, I began to see that I was never going to know the whole truth. My exH was a charming man and a habitual liar, the kind of person who tells even innocuous lies to avoid any confrontation or disagreement. Still, he had always made it sound as though he wouldn't lie to me - not about things that matter, anyway. (Take heed, folks!!) And I think it just finally dawned on me, after 7 years together, that I wasn't ever going to know the truth about anything, with him. Just not ever. I think we could have eventually reconciled if I had really wanted to, to be honest, and perhaps he wouldn't even have cheated again - but it would have been a return to doubt and fear and uncertainty, possibly for the rest of my life, because he simply didn't know how to be honest, especially with himself. And I realized I couldn't support that; I wanted a different future for myself. So that's why I left.

[Ruby Tuesday]

Im going to choose to *not* answer these questions because its useless information for you now. All you need to know is that my husbands affair is over, and that it should have never happened and leave it at that. Any contact would otherwise damage what trust they have rebuilt.

 

Stay out of their marriage.

 

You know, theres just some things should just be intimate between two people. I wouldn't want the OW involving herself in our recovery in any shape or form. She is not a friend of the marriage, that's for sure. She'd only have her own interests in mind, seeing us fail would give her that sick pleasure she craves. Her happiness depended upon me failing so she could have my life.

 

So, my advice is do not get involved in it anymore. It will only bring you down. You cant fix it, or do anything about it. You have to focus on yourself now, working on your own recovery and making yourself better.

 

IMO, what a xMM and his wife do to make it through the affair should only be between them. Certian things are just private and are no one elses business, even if he makes it your business.

 

I think the xMM/FWS do that to keep the xOW on the hook, to know they still have an option. He's just using you (for whatever reasons) and that can only happen if you allow it to continue.

[serial muse]

Thank you for your reply serial muse, it really helped me understand a bit more as to the details issue. As I said before, because I am not the BW, it is difficult for me to understand some issues and the "shock" issue is one that I can relate to on my end but I know that it is a completely a different kind of shock to the W.

 

From the email I received from exMM, he made it seem like everything was hunky doory (which is fine by me, I have no interest in him at all ) and the main reason they didn't get into a detailed discussion of the A is because "I didn't want to hurt her any more than I already have". Perhaps she did inquire about some details but he didn't divulge any because he didn't want to cause her any more pain. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word he says anymore and have since blocked him from contacting me in any manner but his statements just made me curious and I've tried to learn as much as I can in the wake of the biggest mistake of my life.

 

One of the worst things for me has been dealing with the guilt and knowing that there is likely someone out there (BW) who hates me with every grain of her body and doesn't even know me. I hate myself for being weak and getting involved in an A and for making the most stupidest choices of my life knowing I am a smart, educated and well rounded human being.

 

I really appreciate all of you who did answer my questions and who have offered insight.

 

Just wanted to add my congrats for breaking free and seeing through his lies - you sound like you're on a good path and I wish you the best.

[serial muse]

Serial Muse... that was a great post, should be a thread on it own.

 

The reason I left is because in the end, I knew that I no longer believed in him. I realized this through MC - in therapy together, listening to him talking to this third party, I began to see that I was never going to know the whole truth. My exH was a charming man and a habitual liar, the kind of person who tells even innocuous lies to avoid any confrontation or disagreement. Still, he had always made it sound as though he wouldn't lie to me - not about things that matter, anyway. (Take heed, folks!!) And I think it just finally dawned on me, after 7 years together, that I wasn't ever going to know the truth about anything, with him. Just not ever. I think we could have eventually reconciled if I had really wanted to, to be honest, and perhaps he wouldn't even have cheated again - but it would have been a return to doubt and fear and uncertainty, possibly for the rest of my life, because he simply didn't know how to be honest, especially with himself. And I realized I couldn't support that; I wanted a different future for myself. So that's why I left.

 

Thanks IWWH. I lurve being appreciated.

[SoxPrincess]

Im going to choose to *not* answer these questions because its useless information for you now. All you need to know is that my husbands affair is over, and that it should have never happened and leave it at that. Any contact would otherwise damage what trust they have rebuilt.

 

Stay out of their marriage.

 

You know, theres just some things should just be intimate between two people. I wouldn't want the OW involving herself in our recovery in any shape or form. She is not a friend of the marriage, that's for sure. She'd only have her own interests in mind, seeing us fail would give her that sick pleasure she craves. Her happiness depended upon me failing so she could have my life.

 

So, my advice is do not get involved in it anymore. It will only bring you down. You cant fix it, or do anything about it. You have to focus on yourself now, working on your own recovery and making yourself better.

 

IMO, what a xMM and his wife do to make it through the affair should only be between them. Certian things are just private and are no one elses business, even if he makes it your business.

 

I think the xMM/FWS do that to keep the xOW on the hook, to know they still have an option. He's just using you (for whatever reasons) and that can only happen if you allow it to continue.

 

Thank you Ruby Tuesday!! I appreciate your thoughts and your candor!! Thanks!!!!

 

Just wanted to add my congrats for breaking free and seeing through his lies - you sound like you're on a good path and I wish you the best.

 

Thank you serial muse, much much appreciated!

[mopar crazy]

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

I had some inkling that H was involved w/ the xOW. I wasn't positive. However, I did know that at the time (B4 D-day) that he wasn't having a PA w/ her but I knew something emotionally was going on between them b/c he talked about her constantly. And when I finally got sick of hearing about her I asked him if he wanted to sleep w/ her. His answer was "If I wasn't M" so I knew he was attracted to her. As for whom told me, it was my friends that had spouses that worked w/ my H or who were co-workers w/ the both of them.

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

OW never contacted me, I contacted her. I asked her what was going between her and my H b/c I have heard that they were having an A. She laughed and asked why the rumors couldn't be about him and another female co-worker and not her. I had a hard time not believing her TBH. She has a very convincing personality. Even her own xmil said she is a great liar. She was not honest w/ me about the A. She lied every time I talked to her about it but so did H.

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

H did not admit to the A until I moved away w/ our children. We spoke occasionally about the kids and even fought a few times about material possessions for a few weeks. About a month after I moved away he called and admitted to the A. For some dumb reason, I wanted details. I asked if she was good in bed, what was she good about, what wasn't she good about. I don't know why I wanted such details. I guess hearing what he answered was a way for me to figure out how he felt about her.

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

Since H and I were separated almost 100 miles apart it was hard to place "restrictions." He wanted to continue to be friends w/ xOW b/c they worked together (he was her supervisor). I told him if he wanted to continue to be friends w/ her that the M was over. I said he can still have a professional relations w/ her b/c he had to for his job, but I didn't want any friendly chatting or flirting going on. I didn't call him a lot at work b/c I knew he was busy but he called me often when he had a chance. I didn't need to check his cell phone records b/c he showed me that she had called right on his cell. She didn't have a computer to email. He said she had no clue how to work it. I would be impossible for me to check emails though b/c by the time I would go see him he could of deleted them but I was trying to trust him again. H did tell me she continued to flirt w/ him at work, even called a lot. IT wasn't until I told her to stop calling that she did. H printed out an IM between the two of them at work and in it it did say she needed to stop bringing up sexual comments, and flirting. She said it would be hard but she would try and how he isn't fun anymore and she could tell he was back w/ me.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

The OW lived about 15 miles from us (b4 I moved) but worked in the same town. I wasn't worried about her flipping out. Her own H (now x) said he doubted she would start anything but if she did to let her throw the first punch and get her for assault. It never came to that. I never placed the blame solely on OW but most of it b/c she was the one that pursued H for 3 years. The part I place blame on H was that he fell for it. He could of said no. Our M was bad and I know that played a lot into having the A. I just wish H would of talked to me and told me we needed to get MC b/c he was starting to have feelings for the OW. I don't know if it would of worked. Maybe if he thought I would file for a D. He was very apt about being the one to file and not me.

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

 

 

I didn't think your ?'s were offensive at all. Hope no one else does.

[herenow]

I asked mostly out of curiosity because I know "my" side as being the exOW and I sort of know the exMM's side and I was interested in perspective from the BS; what it was like for those of you who were on the other side and how you did ( or in some cases ) did not move on from the A.

 

Recently, exMM got in touch with me after 8 months of NC and I never responded ( I am NEVER getting into a situation like that again ) and some of the things he mentioned in his email to me made me wonder about the perspective of the BS. I realize that every situation is different but I was interested in hearing all of the situations and varying opinions. Via email, exMM said his W never wanted to know any of the details (she never asked me for any when her and I talked once) and that their M was much stronger now..which obviously seems contradictory since he was contacting me again. I wondered what was the norm, was it the norm to not know any details, was it the norm to place any restrictions on the MM so he wouldn't contact OW, etc.

 

Reading the replies was interesting and I truly appreciate those of you who took the time to answer and to not think I had any ulterior motives in asking. As I said, I hoped that as a whole, we could all learn from each other on this forum.

 

I agree with the person that said he is probably not telling you the truth about what he has told his wife. I started a thread a while ago to OW about what MM tell their wives. Warning that if the MM stays in his marriage after a D-day, he will most likely tell his wife things that the OW wouldn't want anyone to know. My H told me everything. I know things about the OW that I'm sure she told my H thinking that he would never tell another person. I was told in my thread that it was wrong for my H to tell and that he lacked integrity because he told me secrets that the OW told him. He didn't lack integrity, he was proving his loyalty to me, his wife.

 

The truth is, I needed him to prove his loyalty and anything short of telling me anything I wanted to know would have been unacceptable and I would have once again shown him the door. It's not that I really cared about the details about the OW's life, it's that I needed him to be completely honest with me. Let me tell you, he shared every detail about her personal and professional life, her fears and her dreams, her family history, everything. Again, it's not that I cared, it's that he was willing to tell that was important.

 

If a MM really wants his marriage to work, he can not and will not be loyal to the OW in any way. His wife and the needs of his wife must come first. Any promise that the MM has with the OW can no longer be kept so that trust between husband and wife can be rebuilt.

 

Don't think for one second that the MM isn't telling his wife all the things you thought you were telling him in secret.

[Tomcat33]

Don't think for one second that the MM isn't telling his wife all the things you thought you were telling him in secret.

 

 

That sounds like some sort of revenge of the BW's part on the OW? Because in the grand scheme of things, after losing the person you fell in love with, who cares WHAT he tells the W? I honestly could care less if he told her EVERYTHING every little last detail about me, or what we discussed and talked about. I can honestly say it will do the W more harm than good. And I don't see the point in that. I think men who go back to their wives twist the truth to soften the truths they reveal to their wives, there is no way they could come completely clean, it would be too painful for the Ws.

 

My exMM told me all the questions his W asked about me and he had to lie about a lot of it to spare her feelings and I can see why he lied, if it were me in her shoes asking those question I prob would NOT want to hear the honest answers to the questions either.

 

As per the telling all the last intimate details about the OW if there were something that was so horrible about me that I would not want repeated, HE would be the last person I would tell that secret to. In fact I would prob. not share that secret with ANYONE. There is nothing that could come back to bite me in the butt I can honestly say that.

[whichwayisup]

My exMM told me all the questions his W asked about me and he had to lie about a lot of it to spare her feelings and I can see why he lied

 

How do you know your exMM told you the truth? You take him at his word??

 

I can honestly say it will do the W more harm than good.

 

Maybe if you were a BW, then it would do more harm than good, but for some BW/BH's, that may not be the case. As HN said, it's not really caring to know all the details, but the fact the cheater is WILLING to spill all, so he can come clean about EVERYTHING, is a first step. The cheater has to be ready to tell all and answer ANY questions that the betrayed spouse asks of them.

[Tomcat33]

Maybe if you were a BW, then it would do more harm than good, but for some BW/BH's, that may not be the case. As HN said, it's not really caring to know all the details, but the fact the cheater is WILLING to spill all, so he can come clean about EVERYTHING, is a first step. The cheater has to be ready to tell all and answer ANY questions that the betrayed spouse asks of them.

 

I understand that but the cheater more often than not will open up and soften the blows, he will NOT say it all as it is/was. The spouse still feel good that they are getting answers and the cheater feels god that he/she opened up. On the surface it's a win/win situation, but really there is not point. He may tell the truth about the less hurful things but he won't open up about the things that will surely hurt her more. So in that sense I find it pointless you are just asking him to lie to you some more...

 

How do you know your exMM told you the truth? You take him at his word??

 

Because he told me what the questions were and what his answers were. the answers were completely oposite to what I lived with him, and in no way were they the kinds of things I wanted to hear to benefit me, yet he volunteerd this information to me. For example he told me she asked him "did you want to have kids with her, are you going to?" while in therapy he opened up and said " I don't know" We had unprotected sex all the time, he WANTED to get me pregnant we talked about it many many times I wanted his child too. She asked do you love her? Was this love? "his answer was I had a very strong intelectual and physical connection" For all I know he might have said no, but he loved me of that i have 0 doubts.

She asked "I bet she was a lot of fun and the sex was amazing" his answer it was ok it was not about that. Which it wasn't but we did have a LOT of fun and sex was incredible.

[herenow]

How do you know your exMM told you the truth? You take him at his word??

 

 

 

Maybe if you were a BW, then it would do more harm than good, but for some BW/BH's, that may not be the case. As HN said, it's not really caring to know all the details, but the fact the cheater is WILLING to spill all, so he can come clean about EVERYTHING, is a first step. The cheater has to be ready to tell all and answer ANY questions that the betrayed spouse asks of them.

 

 

Thank you WWIU. For me it's not about the OW as much as it's about my H. The fact that he was willing to tell me the details that I asked for, proved that he was taking the first step on the road to regain my trust. That is a very long road and one that will take a while, but had he felt the need to protect the OW's privacy and not answered my questions, that road would have ended.

 

As far as revenge on the OW. I have some very damaging info that could harm her personally and professionally and I will never use it. Because, I don't care enough about her to take revenge like that. I would rather that she be out of my life forever. To take revenge in any way puts a focus on the OW that is against everything we have worked towards. It's always been about fixing our marriage and the OW is not part of that.

[herenow]

I understand that but the cheater more often than not will open up and soften the blows, he will NOT say it all as it is/was. The spouse still feel good that they are getting answers and the cheater feels god that he/she opened up. On the surface it's a win/win situation, but really there is not point. He may tell the truth about the less hurful things but he won't open up about the things that will surely hurt her more. So in that sense I find it pointless you are just asking him to lie to you some more...

 

 

 

Because he told me what the questions were and what his answers were. the answers were completely oposite to what I lived with him, and in no way were they the kinds of things I wanted to hear to benefit me, yet he volunteerd this information to me. For example he told me she asked him "did you want to have kids with her, are you going to?" while in therapy he opened up and said " I don't know" We had unprotected sex all the time, he WANTED to get me pregnant we talked about it many many times I wanted his child too. She asked do you love her? Was this love? "his answer was I had a very strong intelectual and physical connection" For all I know he might have said no, but he loved me of that i have 0 doubts.

She asked "I bet she was a lot of fun and the sex was amazing" his answer it was ok it was not about that. Which it wasn't but we did have a LOT of fun and sex was incredible.

 

I'm sure his wife is as sure as you are that he is telling her the truth. The fact that he is even speaking with you and is still married says a lot about him. Why would he even waste his time in therapy if he's going to lie? And, as everyone always asks: What makes you think he is telling you the truth if he is lying to his wife?

 

If your exMM was honestly working on his marriage, he wouldn't be having any conversations with you about anything.

[whichwayisup]

If your exMM was honestly working on his marriage, he wouldn't be having any conversations with you about anything.

 

I may get crap for saying this, but if you truely loved him and wanted the best for him, you'd leave him alone, say goodbye and let him try to fix his marriage. He owes that much to his wife, let alone himself and kids, if they have any. NO marriage can be fixed if the OW/OM is still in the picture.

 

It's also unfair to you, if you allow yourself to try to continue an A with him. You're selling yourself short and losing out.

[Tomcat33]

As far as revenge on the OW. I have some very damaging info that could harm her personally and professionally and I will never use it. Because, I don't care enough about her to take revenge like that. I would rather that she be out of my life forever. To take revenge in any way puts a focus on the OW that is against everything we have worked towards. It's always been about fixing our marriage and the OW is not part of that.

 

I see what you mean now, and that's good that you don't feelt he need to stoop to that level, because utlimately it would do you no good. Leaving with your head held high is the best revenge.

 

On another thought I can understand that BS may feel the need for revenge on the OW/OM but what they need to undestand, and I don't know if this will help at all, is that the OW/OM did not do this TO the BS they did this with their husband/wife yes but not to harm the BS. Often times the BS is not really in the picture, it's like she/he is almost just a ghost of sorts. I know that sounds weird but it's like when you are in that moment this person's feelings do not come into play. For me it was very different I felt tremendous guilt and disgust when the EA started and I faught it within myself for very long, and with him hence the cutting all contact with MM. but once he left and I fell hard for him, it's like she didnt exsist any more she only existed when I reminded myself that he was not 100% free yet. So in retrospect at that point I did not feel like I was doing harm TO her.

[whichwayisup]

. but once he left and I fell hard for him, it's like she didnt exsist any more she only existed when I reminded myself that he was not 100% free yet. So in retrospect at that point I did not feel like I was doing harm TO her.

Don't mean to sound harsh and it's not directed at you, just a general statement, but that's called "justifying your actions" for the affair. To depersonalize the betrayed spouse, like they don't exist, so one doesn't feel any guilt of what they are doing.

[Tomcat33]

I'm sure his wife is as sure as you are that he is telling her the truth. The fact that he is even speaking with you and is still married says a lot about him. Why would he even waste his time in therapy if he's going to lie? And, as everyone always asks: What makes you think he is telling you the truth if he is lying to his wife?

 

If your exMM was honestly working on his marriage, he wouldn't be having any conversations with you about anything.

 

Clearly you don't know my story, but you could see it in back posts, I don't expet you to read all my posts so let me clarify things before you misunderstand what happend.

 

 

My MM was going to councelling with her when he broke it off with me (months ago) because he felt guilty about not giving the marriage a fair chance to be saved, this is what SHE told him, he knew in his heart he was not into the marriage anymmore but was plagued with guilt, so he dumped me and went back. I went NC for a month and let him do what he had to do and a month after that he came looking for me to tell me it had not worked out that no amount of councelling would save them because he was in love with me and did not want the marriage anymore, had wanted out for long. It was a mistake to go back to try to save the marraige. It was a this point that he told me everything she had asked, he told me about all the process of opening up that takes place when you are trying to save the marriage after the affair, and he opened up in everything he told a lot truths in what she wanted to know but in certian things he could not bring himself to tell her the complete truth he did not want to hurt her even more though he was trying to do what's best and follow the rules to see if he could save the marriage he could not be 100% honest if it meant hurting her even more. When he tried to save the marriage and go to councelling he broke complete contact with me, he obliged by the rules set by his W and the therapist.

he just found out later that he could not go through with trying to save the marriage.