So it's D-Day

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat I used the word classless for you after you chose to use profanity on a public forum.

 

Sorry in my opinion anyone who can not communicate effectively in writing without resorting to profanilty is classless. This was not a slip of the tongue but a thought out written out statement with some very classless profanity. Sorry but that is classless and totally unnecessary.

 

I made the comment to you that i would not want a friend like you. That was a statement. I would never want a friend that slept with my married brother behind my back. That is no friend regardless of how much I dislike his wife. Your response was basically to tell me to f-off. Classless dear, totally classless.

 

First of all, it was NOT ME who used the profanity, learn to read.

 

Second of all HELLO I never slept with my best friend's brother who was married, so before you go off making dumb-ass accusations learn to read.

 

Third of all, and speaking of classless, all my friends know how to read. Why don't you try learning to read before you shoot off your mouth?

[greengoddess]

First of all, it was NOT ME who used the profanity, learn to read.

 

Second of all HELLO I never slept with my best friend's brother who was married, so before you go off making dumb-ass accusations learn to read.

 

Third of all, and speaking of classless, all my friends know how to read. Why don't you try learning to read before you shoot off your mouth?

 

ah i stand corrected. You and babybird remind me so much of each other.

[outofdarkness]

WOW OOD that is some story you just shared with us, perhaps could explain some of what ties you to your current situation with your H. The need to make it right for approval. A lot of women suffer from this. There are so many things that play out in our relationships due to our relationships with our parents. It's so unfair for your father to blame you for his crazy behaviour. How did he do this would he come right and snap at you for things that didn't go right for him?

 

Unlike yourself my parents never divorced, they are actually still together my father has changed significantly but growing up as a child and teenager he was very difficult, pretty much absent from home, he was hard working but that's about it, it was mostly my mother who did the parenting for both. And their relationship was very rocky they argued a lot and probably should have seperated back then, it was toxic. With my syblings we used to hope that they would seperate just so that we could get some peace at home. We wanted to see our mother loved so desperately and our father was not very affectionate back then.

 

 

thankfully he has changed quite a bit but I honestly think that they would have been MUCH happier if they went their seperate ways.

 

So as much as my situation is very different than yours the feelings are perhaps the same, I think a lot of kids feel that especially from their relationship with their fathers.

No, I don't think that my Dad's behavior is what "ties" me to my H..It's a totally different situation..I was merely trying to point out that MM who cheat are VERY good at projecting their guilt and shame onto those that they are closest to..The OW NEVER sees this side of him, as HE is portrayed as the perfect Father, Hubby, etc..WHY would an OW continue the A w/ the OW if she knew about the rotten behavior on her MM's part at home? My H's OW of 10 years clearly stated to me the one time I spoke w/ her that she had NO idea what was really going on. She was even told that I KNEW of the A and was ok w/ it. Remember...The MM will say anything to keep the A going. The best way to do this is to lie about the W and kids and home situation..You know, same ole same ole...W doesn't give me sex, kids are unruly, W spends too much, etc., etc., etc.,.....

 

LoL...One other thing the OW said during that conversation, the day of D day, was that she cried b/c he had yelled at her. I just sat there and said you mean, that's the first time he's yelled at you? ANYTHING to keep it going!!! They are totally different people around OW..It's not real..If he were to leave his W; speaking in general terms, and M you (OW) then you would start the cycle over again...He'd most likely be the same way w/ you...Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, before some of you start to argue that your's isn't like that...But generally, it's the deception, lies, and secretiveness that make the A thrive and exciting. What's so exciting after he leaves his family?? The fact that a family is broken...That doesn't really make for a romantic evening, now does it? A call from a crying, depressed kid, an angry call from a former spouse? We've seen in the news lately about a very well known celebrity and how HIS divorce and his subsequent behavior as a result of it have caused him to become abusive to his own daughter. The W has acted inappropriately IMO too.

 

Re: My son...As long as he is sick, I will not leave...that is true, but as previously stated, there are OTHER reasons as well...Do you have kids TomKat??? Just curious..and NO his don't count b/c right now you're not officially in the picture..You are his mistress and he is hiding you...

[Salicious Crumb]

Wow. If the worst thing you can think of is physical abuse you must be living in some sort of alternate reality. Utopia perhaps?

 

Ok then, you tell us...besides physical violence, what is worse than cheating in your mind?

 

The BS's whine about things just as much as the OW/OM do.

 

Well I think its because they have more of a basis to...uh...they were betrayed...

 

Whining, complaining, and half the time showing they're willing to accept that type of behavior from their cheating spouse because they stay with them. What's the difference? And why are you here?

 

I'm not accepting anything from my wife...she knows that the ball is in my court now and if she thinks she is going to go out to clubs any longer instead of being a wife...she will leave the house.

 

Sense of entitlement? Could care less...Ok I'll give you that. Some of the OW/OM don't care less but I don't see anyone portraying themselves as being entitled to get their man/woman.

 

its the attitude that their "needs" are paramount over anyone elses...especially the kids....they feel they are "entitled" to have their "needs" met no matter who they hurt in the process.

 

As far as TC refraining from posting: Why on earth would she do that? I don't think her attacks are unsolicited. I think they are perfectly justified.

 

If she thinks someone needs not be taken seriously...then why respond?

Doesn't make much sense to say someone need not be taken seriously, then waste their time to respond to it.

[Salicious Crumb]

As far as TC refraining from posting: Why on earth would she do that? I don't think her attacks are unsolicited. I think they are perfectly justified.

 

And of course you think they are justified...you are one of those people who could care less who you hurt as long as you are getting "yours".

[Salicious Crumb]

Missed my point completely...but you did a fine job at demonstrating it nonetheless.

 

Note to self: Three, two one...aaaaand ignore!.

 

And such a fine job you did of ignoring with that response.

[Tomcat33]

ah i stand corrected. You and babybird remind me so much of each other.

 

I am find with that.

 

You on the other hand remind me of the "close door" button in an elevator, it serves absolutely NO useful purpose. But I've shared this notion with you before in other words.

[Salicious Crumb]

Hurting people is hurting people whether or not you're screwing their husband or gossiping, or bashing on the internet. The hurt may not be as intense but it's just as real.

 

so those who cheat and hurt other people in one of the worst ways should be above criticism and should suffer very little consequences for their actions.....hmmmmm.....interesting.

 

I never said it was fine to ignore the fact that people will most likely be hurt from an A. Most affairs are discovered and I was lucky that mine wasn't, which is what this post was all about. It is easier not to think about the other people. When I thought it was my D-day I was very conscious that his W would be hurt. It has always been in the back of my mind but not something I sit and ponder for hours at a time.

 

Of course you didn't ponder it....you didn't care who you hurt.

 

Seriously, why does that give the OW any worse of a name than the action of having an A period?

 

It doesn't..you are absolutely correct. Just as a murderer doesn't get a worse name if he had killed 9 people instead of 8.

[greengoddess]

I am find with that.

 

You on the other hand remind me of the "close door" button in an elevator, it serves absolutely NO useful purpose. But I've shared this notion with you before in other words.

 

Yes I know. You just want to pretend that wives do not exist. They serve zero purpose in your selfish life. Out of sight out of mind. Yes I know...

[Tomcat33]

No, I don't think that my Dad's behavior is what "ties" me to my H..It's a totally different situation..I was merely trying to point out that MM who cheat are VERY good at projecting their guilt and shame onto those that they are closest to..The OW NEVER sees this side of him, as HE is portrayed as the perfect Father, Hubby, etc..WHY would an OW continue the A w/ the OW if she knew about the rotten behavior on her MM's part at home? My H's OW of 10 years clearly stated to me the one time I spoke w/ her that she had NO idea what was really going on. She was even told that I KNEW of the A and was ok w/ it. Remember...The MM will say anything to keep the A going. The best way to do this is to lie about the W and kids and home situation..You know, same ole same ole...W doesn't give me sex, kids are unruly, W spends too much, etc., etc., etc.,.....

 

LoL...One other thing the OW said during that conversation, the day of D day, was that she cried b/c he had yelled at her. I just sat there and said you mean, that's the first time he's yelled at you? ANYTHING to keep it going!!! They are totally different people around OW..It's not real..If he were to leave his W; speaking in general terms, and M you (OW) then you would start the cycle over again...He'd most likely be the same way w/ you...Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, before some of you start to argue that your's isn't like that...But generally, it's the deception, lies, and secretiveness that make the A thrive and exciting. What's so exciting after he leaves his family?? The fact that a family is broken...That doesn't really make for a romantic evening, now does it? A call from a crying, depressed kid, an angry call from a former spouse? We've seen in the news lately about a very well known celebrity and how HIS divorce and his subsequent behavior as a result of it have caused him to become abusive to his own daughter. The W has acted inappropriately IMO too.

 

Re: My son...As long as he is sick, I will not leave...that is true, but as previously stated, there are OTHER reasons as well...Do you have kids TomKat??? Just curious..and NO his don't count b/c right now you're not officially in the picture..You are his mistress and he is hiding you...

 

OOD firstly I would like clarify that I am no one's mistress. I WAS dating a man who was seperated and living on his own, the only time I fit the catagory of mistress was when we frist met and our EA started to take on. We started off as work partners on a project and the work relationship stemmed into a friendship one which lead to the EA. As the EA got off I cut all contact with him for several months because I knew that what we were doing was wrong. He moved out and we started dating and we were together for several months and our rel. ended a few months ago because he needed time to be alone to deal with everything that had happened, I was pressuring him to get D and he just wanted to enjoy my company and we never saw eye to eye. But he is still living alone and wants me back, it is me who does not want to go back. Not anymore, and not unless he has some real advancement on the D front. I am not interested in picking up where we left off.

 

 

Secondly, no I don't have children and neither does he. I could not get involved with a man who had a family, even within what happened to me, the unspeakable of getting involved with someone who was already involved with someone else, there were limitations to what lines I would cross. Not having children was a green light for me to go through with the experience. It really did seem like they were one of those couples who were not meant to be together. They had put off having children because of this, and I know this not only from him but from his family whom I spoke with.

 

Thirdly of course I undestand that MM/MW lie through their teeth to make themselves seem like the angels and the family like the reason for therm wanting out. In my case he never spoke ill words about his W, he took his responsibility for the rel. breakdown and was fully aware that they were both gulity of letting the rel. break down. But on his part it was more because he was not in love with her...he doesn't think he ever was, the initial attraction was never there on a chemistry level, it was more a friendship that turned into an LTR. He cared about her but was not in love and the kind of emotional connection he developed with me had never happened to him with her, for several reasons that I cannot get into here publicly but let's just say that he and I had a compatibility that she and he could never have due to our upbrining.

[Tomcat33]

Yes I know. You just want to pretend that wives do not exist. They serve zero purpose in your selfish life. Out of sight out of mind. Yes I know...

 

Notice I said YOU remind me of a close door button, not Wives.

All I see you doing is hijacking threads to attack people personally, and then when you get people's backs up and you get your just dessert you cry "mommy".

Seriously, that to me SERVES NO USEFUL PURPOSE. You have nothing positive to contribute to the discussions, be it an agreeing point of view or disagreeing one, you don't even have a point of view to share, you just attack and wait for the reaction.

[outofdarkness]

OOD firstly I would like clarify that I am no one's mistress. I WAS dating a man who was seperated and living on his own, the only time I fit the catagory of mistress was when we frist met and our EA started to take on. We started off as work partners on a project and the work relationship stemmed into a friendship one which lead to the EA. As the EA got off I cut all contact with him for several months because I knew that what we were doing was wrong. He moved out and we started dating and we were together for several months and our rel. ended a few months ago because he needed time to be alone to deal with everything that had happened, I was pressuring him to get D and he just wanted to enjoy my company and we never saw eye to eye. But he is still living alone and wants me back, it is me who does not want to go back. Not anymore, and not unless he has some real advancement on the D front. I am not interested in picking up where we left off.

 

 

Secondly, no I don't have children and neither does he. I could not get involved with a man who had a family, even within what happened to me, the unspeakable of getting involved with someone who was already involved with someone else, there were limitations to what lines I would cross. Not having children was a green light for me to go through with the experience. It really did seem like they were one of those couples who were not meant to be together. They had put off having children because of this, and I know this not only from him but from his family whom I spoke with.

 

Thirdly of course I undestand that MM/MW lie through their teeth to make themselves seem like the angels and the family like the reason for therm wanting out. In my case he never spoke ill words about his W, he took his responsibility for the rel. breakdown and was fully aware that they were both gulity of letting the rel. break down. But on his part it was more because he was not in love with her...he doesn't think he ever was, the initial attraction was never there on a chemistry level, it was more a friendship that turned into an LTR. He cared about her but was not in love and the kind of emotional connection he developed with me had never happened to him with her, for several reasons that I cannot get into here publicly but let's just say that he and I had a compatibility that she and he could never have due to our upbrining.

ok..thanks for explaining...Whatever angle you use and whatever the specific circumstances, you cheated. with him..Even if he was separated..until the D is final..you cheated w/ him If you had a friendship w/ him and and EA..and the W was unaware..you cheated w/ him...You can't justify with me..it's too hard...sorry.

[Tomcat33]

ok..thanks for explaining...Whatever angle you use and whatever the specific circumstances, you cheated. with him..Even if he was separated..until the D is final..you cheated w/ him If you had a friendship w/ him and and EA..and the W was unaware..you cheated w/ him...You can't justify with me..it's too hard...sorry.

 

 

I didn't cheat HE cheated, he was married to her not me. I trusted that he wanted out and that he moved out to end his marriage, the reason according to him that he did not let her know was because he did not want to hurt her by letting her know that he had moved on while she didn't have the same opportunity. At the end of my days with him we would either end up at his house or mine, he did not go to her bed and pretend to be her H. Nor did he hide the fact that he was seeing me, hence she found out because someone saw us together out. Whatever the reason for him not telling her about me I respected that if I was to be with him all that mattered was that he was there for me, and he was....

 

how he chose to handle the termination of his marriage is HIS problem, sorry. I don't feel responsible for that.

[outofdarkness]

I didn't cheat HE cheated, he was married to her not me. I trusted that he wanted out and that he moved out to end his marriage, the reason according to him that he did not let her know was because he did not want to hurt her by letting her know that he had moved on while she didn't have the same opportunity. At the end of my days with him we would either end up at his house or mine, he did not go to her bed and pretend to be her H. Nor did he hide the fact that he was seeing me, hence she found out because someone saw us together out. Whatever the reason for him not telling her about me I respected that if I was to be with him all that mattered was that he was there for me, and he was....

 

how he chose to handle the termination of his marriage is HIS problem, sorry. I don't feel responsible for that.

Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, you ARE partially responsible for the demise of his M...You were a willing participant in his deception and lies. You knew that he was M, that his W was unaware, until someone told...So...you can justify until the cows come home, but you ARE partially responsible and you WERE a willing participant...sorry to be so blunt, but I told you you can't go there w/ me...

[whichwayisup]

OOD, don't bother. She refuses to take accountability for her actions. She honestly feels she's done nothing wrong - So don't expect her to admit her part in the affair because in her mind she wasn't doing anything really wrong.

[Tomcat33]

Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, you ARE partially responsible for the demise of his M...You were a willing participant in his deception and lies. You knew that he was M, that his W was unaware, until someone told...So...you can justify until the cows come home, but you ARE partially responsible and you WERE a willing participant...sorry to be so blunt, but I told you you can't go there w/ me...

 

 

Again, I was not married to her HE was. He made a promise of for better or worse, he made a promise to trust and be trusted, he made a promise to not betray her trust. If he betrayed her trust by lying to her about us dating that is his decission.

 

I was not a complice of this, his family knew about us, his friends knew about us, his co-workers knew I met them all. If I was a complice in his lie we would have been sneaking around,we weren't we held hands in public, made out, went out arm in arm, sat at restuarants etc. there was no hiding our rel. he had his cell on all the time and I would call him if he had to meet her for seperation reasong (ie, moving out his stuff etc.) I did however have the sensitivity to know that it's hard enough to end a relationship, let alone find out that your eX is already happily dating someone else. So I would not call him if I knew he would see her etc.

 

I'm not in denyal there is nothing to deny, I honestly do not feel any responsibility for his actions. I don't, sorry.

 

Furthermore if I were responsible for their break-up he should be back living with her again now that I don't want him...because she wanted him back, she still wants him back and he won't go back. He wanted out, he did not love her anymore and they are BOTH better off on their own. At least now she can be with someone who WANTS to be with her.

[Babybird]

ah i stand corrected. You and babybird remind me so much of each other.

 

If that was supposed to be an insult it didn't work. I can think of a few people that you remind me off but I wouldn't stoop to your level an end up insulting them with the association.

[Babybird]

Ok then, you tell us...besides physical violence, what is worse than cheating in your mind?

 

Well I think its because they have more of a basis to...uh...they were betrayed...

 

I'm not accepting anything from my wife...she knows that the ball is in my court now and if she thinks she is going to go out to clubs any longer instead of being a wife...she will leave the house.

 

its the attitude that their "needs" are paramount over anyone elses...especially the kids....they feel they are "entitled" to have their "needs" met no matter who they hurt in the process.

 

If she thinks someone needs not be taken seriously...then why respond?

Doesn't make much sense to say someone need not be taken seriously, then waste their time to respond to it.

 

There are women that are tortured mentally/emotionally and never have a hand on them. There are people that suffer in silence and deal with starvation and total neglect. I took your statement to be in general not specific to marriage. Specific to relationships physical abuse is terrifying. Been there done that. I healed and moved on. For many that isn't the case. In my opinion the emotional abuse that people suffer from leaves longer lasting wounds. This was true for me. Others may differ in opinion. But then again what would be unusual about that.

 

The BS and the OP are both betrayed. Not all OP go into the R knowing that the person is married. In those instances then both are equally betrayed. The MP person lies in equal amounts to both people. Of course there is to be no sympathy for the OP but that doesn't change the fact that both are betrayed. Anyways, my statement was in regards to the people that stay and come back saying "I think he/she is cheating again I don't know what to do", or he cheated on me again and I thought he never would etc.".

 

If you are referring to the OW those R are completely sex based. Women usually aren't capable of separating sex and love. If you are using needs in a general sense including their emotional needs, then yeah I would have to say they do act with a sense of entitlement at times. Just because someone is having an affair doesn't mean they have no conscious, no sense of reality, and are capable of hurting people and enjoying it. That would make all people that cheat sociopaths. NO, they aren't. Don't even try to say they are. It won't work.

 

You respond selectively to people you want to piss off. The thing I have noticed about you is you toss off al the opinions you want but don't ever reveal anything about yourself. We know very little except the general details of why you're here. And she didn't even have an A. She cheated BEFORE you were married.

[Babybird]

And this is why so many MM decide not to leave their wives. They realize HOW much they love their wives, realize that day in and day out life got in the way, made the couple grow apart abit, priorities changed ... And that equals neglected feelings, needs, enough to open the door for someone on the outside to slip in...

 

Great post HN. And you have helped many people along the way. Definitely keep sharing your thoughts and feelings.

 

Being the OW I can honestly say that Herenow, and this post have got to be the most eye opening and saddening post that I've read.

 

It's something that I think about happening but I don't think that I have ever seen it expressed so well.

 

Ouch.

[Babybird]

so those who cheat and hurt other people in one of the worst ways should be above criticism and should suffer very little consequences for their actions.....hmmmmm.....interesting.

 

Of course you didn't ponder it....you didn't care who you hurt.

 

It doesn't..you are absolutely correct. Just as a murderer doesn't get a worse name if he had killed 9 people instead of 8.

 

That isn't what I said and you know it. I didn't even imply that. I said that hurting people is hurting people period. Sometimes the hurt is less intense but the hurt still exists. That doesn't mean any of the things that you just babbled.

 

You're so right SC. I am a cold-hearted, unfeeling, uncaring person with absolutely no conscious and absolute scum of the earth because I am having an A. I should have my kids taken away, be shot or thrown in a prison for the rest of my life and I pray every day that his W and children are absolutely devastated. And all so I can get a piece and have my 'needs' me I am willing to run over anyone that gets in my path. Hell maybe even lock them in a basement and torture them. After all I don't care who I hurt. God, I don't know how you do it. Right. You are just so right on target. I think you should become a shrink. You have a special knack for reading people.

 

Murdering is so like an A. Suffering from a broken heart isn't the same as killing someone. People get over broken hearts. People don't get over dying.

[Babybird]

SC: One last thing: When the OW get frustrated and tired of the bashing and responds harshly you could look at it like this.

 

You knock her down with insults, telling her she doesn't care about who she hurts, how she is doing the most horrible thing that she could possibly do to another human being outside of physical abuse and these women, many of whom are suffering from low self-esteem, and make them feel lower then dirt and even more depressed. THEN you expect them to walk away from the man that showers them with compliments, and love and passion. Probably the only thing that make them feel good about themselves. Even if it is all lies and deceit. Even if it is a facade and he is only in it for sex. It makes her feel good about herself and after the bashing received here she probably welcomes it with open arms. In essence the bashing could be doing more harm than good. Especially if your goal is to enlighten them about their situation and get them to get out of it.

 

Is that your goal? If it isn't what is the purpose of you being here and the responses you give?

[Jinxx]

Maybe thats why they are the OW?....just a classless part time piece on the side for his convenience. It swings the other way for OM too.

 

Yeah you wish. Class isn't distinguished by being an OW/OM. So many bitter BS's here. So sad.

[outofdarkness]

OOD, don't bother. She refuses to take accountability for her actions. She honestly feels she's done nothing wrong - So don't expect her to admit her part in the affair because in her mind she wasn't doing anything really wrong.

ok...ok...I give up...sort of

[Trialbyfire]

So many bitter BS's here. So sad.

It is odd how so many of the betrayed spouses are upset, isn't it? I mean why in the world should they be?

[Tomcat33]

It is odd how so many of the betrayed spouses are upset, isn't it? I mean why in the world should they be?

 

That's fine BE upset, no one agues that they do not have right to be upset. It's the "taking out your own problems on complete strangers" by insulting them and making them feel worse for what they did, that is not excusable. This is a support forum for people who are in A, it's not a "BASH those who comit a sin forum, come on in we're waiting for your insults" place. Is that so hard to understand? We are all intelligent adults are we not? Well most of us are...