So it's D-Day

[outofdarkness]

I have to say that I agree with Green Goddess and Baby Bird who say that a cheater doesn't necessarily make a bad father. Of course, a person who is unhappy in their M should leave rather than cheat but that's easy to say. Despite the fact that I am no longer with my exMM, I would still never dispute the fact that he was a great Dad. That is why he is still there and not with me and I totally admire him for that. Maybe some of you think I am just looking at things through rose tinted glasses but I know him!

 

OOD, I think your experiences are pretty extreme, with both your father and your H. You have been through a hell of a lot, as have your kids. It takes a very strong person to come out the other side from something as serious as you have been through. We all know that not all MMs involve their kids in their EMAs (pretty unforgiveable IMO), neither do the majority of them set their OW up with a property. Yes, some of them are serial cheaters, some of them are totally incapable of keeping it in their pants, but some are just in the wrong R (maybe not wrong at the time they got married but people DO grow apart). Others just happen to fall in love with someone else. I am not excusing cheating - there IS no excuse - but there is often a reason. The good we can take from this is that lots of MM learn from their As. Ok, some, like my MM, go back despite being unhappy 'for the sake of the kids' blah de blah....but some realise they have made a mistake in having an A and try desperately hard to prepare the damage. I'm not saying I would forgive an A myself (but of course I don't know until I am in that position) but they have to be given some credit for trying to make amends.

 

As far as kids having respect for their cheating parent, who knows? I have my suspicions that my father cheated on my mother. All he has admitted was that he 'confided' in a 'female friend' which was hurtful enough (and I don't think he ever admitted any of that to my Mum!) He has done far worse things to betray me and my brother than cheating on my Mum anyway. They are all aimed AT my Mum but affect us indirectly. I still love my Dad but I have no respect for him whatsoever and I now know him for what he is. I am expecting a marriage announcement re him and his current gf of 3 years some time soon and I am not particularly happy about it. That's not for my Mum's sake, mine, my brother's or even my Dad's. It's his gf I feel sorry for!

YES!!! My situation is both very unique and very extreme for sure!! I try to be objective and look at things as if I haven't experienced it so that my ops aren't extreme, but it's hard having been through all of this stuff. Thanks for the reminder, I do occasionally need one!

[NoIDidn't]

I still love my Dad but I have no respect for him whatsoever and I now know him for what he is. I am expecting a marriage announcement re him and his current gf of 3 years some time soon and I am not particularly happy about it. That's not for my Mum's sake, mine, my brother's or even my Dad's. It's his gf I feel sorry for!

 

Posh

 

I could have written the above myself. Twenty years ago, my STBX-Stepmom thought I didn't want her to M my dad out of some loyalty to my Mom. I stopped wanting my parents together when I was 6, for too many reasons to post here. I told her he was bad news. But she didn't like hearing that from a teen.

 

She recently told me that she realizes it now. It only took 19 years of M to find that out. She is D'ing him as the serial cheats hardly ever ask for the D themselves.

[Salicious Crumb]

That is not true. The divorce is most likely because an A happened but I will go back to it takes two to make and break a M. The person cheats for a reason and I don't care if sex is the only reason, there is one!!! One person cheats, forgive or move on. End of story.

 

Ah yes...the old "its the betrayed's fault they were cheated on.

 

But you are right about there is a reason for cheating, although not what you want it to be.....the reason is the cheater is selfish....End of story.

 

It is totally relevant whose side of the story they listen to. The children should never be told period if their parent cheats.

 

So when the child asks what happened....you advocate lying to them about it?

 

Its none of the children's business.

 

Uh excuse me?...we brought them into this world...and you say they don't deserve to know why their world was turned upside down?

I don't advocate coming right out and saying..."you're mother cheated"...but if they ask me, I'm not going to lie to them.

 

If the BS is telling the children that their parent cheated it IS because they are pissed off and probably trying to win affection from the child and take it away from the cheater.

 

or its a matter of not lying to them when they ask.

 

 

SC: If you and your wife split are you going to tell your children its because she cheated before you were married?

 

If they ask, yes..I'll tell them...I'll also tell them that she decided partying was more important than her marriage.

 

DO you think thats something they need to, or should know? And if your answer is yes, WHY?

 

Like I said, I won't willingly offer it up to them...but if asked, I'll tell them the truth....especially if their mother is filling their heads with a load of crap and lies.

[Salicious Crumb]

 

same for mothers that cheat?

 

By default, they cannot be good Fathers simply because they have cheated on one of the two people that they love and trust more then anything in this world. It's not so much their actions w/ the kids...They can take them to the park, ball games, etc., until the cows come home, but the simple fact that they are cheating is STILL there. No matter what spin you put on it or how hard the MM tries, he is still a liar and a cheater

 

Exactly...well said

 

...Yes, kids ARE very perceptive, they DO know when something is wrong. So...WHY cheat? If you're unhappy in your M, why not take the adult way out and simply be honest w/ your S and ask for a D? BEFORE the cheating takes place.

 

Precisely...that way there is no good guy or bad guy. They can honestly tell the kids that it was nobody's fault.

 

But too many times they do not want a divorce...they just want to f#ck around for the thrill of it. Alot of cheaters want their cake and eat it too.

[Salicious Crumb]

WOW if that isn't painted with a bitter brush. So what should the bs do? Lie to the children?

 

Apparantly so.

 

I just had this conversation with MY CHEATER husband. Former cheater.

 

Well i have to disagree here...there is no such thing as a former cheater.

Just as there is no such thing as a former alcoholic. An alcoholic may never let liquor touch their lips again, but they are still alcoholics and have the itch badly to take a swig.

 

I have a huge fear that I will never ever get over this

 

I know the feeling. I don't think anyone ever really gets over it if they stay with their cheater for whatever reason. They may say they have gotten over it...but I don't think ever completely. It will always be there.

Thats the purgatory to which the cheater sentences their betrayed loved one.

 

My kids will be crushed and feel so let down by their dad. I can't do that to him but I also can not look my kids in the eyes and tell them I don't love their dad.

 

A friend of mine will not talk to his mother to this day because his mom cheated on his father. I have no doubt your kids would be devestated....but the cheater never thinks about them while boning someone besides their spouse.

[Babybird]

WOW if that isn't painted with a bitter brush. So what should the bs do? Lie to the children? I just had this conversation with MY CHEATER husband. Former cheater. yea whatever. I love my husband. Really love him and he insists he feels the same about me and always has for me too. He is begging me to forget and love him like I did. I have a huge fear that I will never ever get over this and sometimes think it would be easier to just separate and end the pain I feel daily when I look into his eyes i loved so much. So i asked him what do we tell the kids if I can't handle this? They are young teens. They can see we still love each other. He said just that we fight all the time and do not love each other any more. Well that is not fair to me. I LOVE HIM. Why should I lie to my kids and tell them I don't love their dad anymore? That's not fair to me or the kids.

 

I ask myself daily can I really say goodbye to someone I love with all my heart and then I ask myself can I really deal with this betrayal everytime I look at him? I'm in a holding pattern right now and he is so happy. He thinks I;m ok for the moment. I just wish I was.

 

My kids will be crushed and feel so let down by their dad. I can't do that to him but I also can not look my kids in the eyes and tell them I don't love their dad.

 

I have no reason to be bitter, just adamant in my beliefs. I told my kids that we just didn't work well as a married couple, and were better off as friends. There's no reason to tell them that you don't love him. I also told them that I would always love him as the father of my children, but not as a husband. They were 8 and 9 and they understood. Are all of those lies?

 

SC: If the children were adults and wanted the truth that is a completely different story. Children have no idea what R consists of other than a parent child bond, for the most part, and how are you going to explain the cheat part? Your mom/dad screwed someone else? And for God's sake I am not saying that it's the betrayer's fault that they were cheated on. I know you love to say that but it isn't what I'm implying. I implying that there was something wrong somewhere else in the marriage that probably went unnoticed. And no..even if their world gets turned upside down it is still the husband and the wife that had the problem not the husband or wife and the children. That's causing even more undue harm to the children when it could be spared. I just don't understand that. (and yes I know getting a divorce before you cheat could spare so much more pain. Only if they know.)

 

I agree that children do notice and hear things when you don't think that they do. They are aware of something being wrong but don't know how to pinpoint it. As long as they are re-assured it isn't them or their fault then the divorce can be easily explained to children as we just didn't work out.

 

Coming from divorced parents I sure as hell wouldn't want to know if one had cheated. Reading the posts below...look at the harm done by knowing. Like I said if they can be spared then they should be. Obviously, I can see the harm done by the A itself. There is no question if a pre-teen or child old enough to understand finds out then that would be awful.

 

Someone asked who spends time with the children when he is gone: Just his son and he does. He is never comes to see me unless his son is asleep or at a friends. I know for a fact that his wife goes to sleep that early. She told me, just like him sleeping in the basement. A lot of the things that he has told me has been validated by friends, or family. Not to mention his Wife herself.

[movinon05]

Well i have to disagree here...there is no such thing as a former cheater.

Just as there is no such thing as a former alcoholic. An alcoholic may never let liquor touch their lips again, but they are still alcoholics and have the itch badly to take a swig.

 

I beg to differ. You are talking apples and oranges. Cheating is not a disease you carry around with you that you have a craving to go back to!

[greengoddess]

Babybird you are friends with his wife and her family?

 

How do you look at yourself in the mirror everyday?

[Salicious Crumb]

SC: If the children were adults and wanted the truth that is a completely different story. Children have no idea what R consists of other than a parent child bond, for the most part, and how are you going to explain the cheat part? Your mom/dad screwed someone else?

 

Uh...I think..."you're mom is not a faithful woman" or "your mother cheated on me" will suffice.

 

And for God's sake I am not saying that it's the betrayer's fault that they were cheated on. I know you love to say that but it isn't what I'm implying. I implying that there was something wrong somewhere else in the marriage that probably went unnoticed.

 

ya....uh huh...sure...thats why you used exclamation points and "end of story" ...you were trying to imply more and you know it.

 

 

And no..even if their world gets turned upside down it is still the husband and the wife that had the problem not the husband or wife and the children.

 

I can agree with that statement...but it still doesn't change the fact that the unfaithful party could have cared less about the impact this will have on the kids. As long as they could spread their legs for another man or the husband has a warm place to put it with another woman...thats all that matters to them.

[Salicious Crumb]

I beg to differ. You are talking apples and oranges. Cheating is not a disease you carry around with you that you have a craving to go back to!

 

Oh I think you are wrong there....I think cheaters will always crave an affair....they can just choose not to.

 

Thats why most cheaters don't stop until they are caught and are only sorry when they are caught.

[greengoddess]

LOL I just went back and read his sons age. He's 16. OMG too funny. You make it sound like you are talking about a little boy he cares for. This kid has a drivers license. :laugh: So when do you see him since he only comes over when son is sleeping? ONE IN THE MORNING?

 

He won't leave cause of his son. He has you snowed. A 16 year old can come and go to either parents.

[greengoddess]

oh and a 16 year old will figure it out on his own. Probably already has.

[Babybird]

LOL I just went back and read his sons age. He's 16. OMG too funny. You make it sound like you are talking about a little boy he cares for. This kid has a drivers license. :laugh: So when do you see him since he only comes over when son is sleeping? ONE IN THE MORNING?

 

He won't leave cause of his son. He has you snowed. A 16 year old can come and go to either parents.

 

 

He's not your average on-the-go teenage boy. He's was born extremely premature(24 1/2 weeks) and has had developmental problems so he doesn't have his license yet. He's actually quite introverted. The only thing this kid ever does without his dad is play hockey. He doesn't date because he isn't into girls yet, or go to the movies like normal kids. He spends hours playing the live x-box crap. Fortunately, his dad is a video game junkie too. He goes to bed around 10:30, sometimes later but not usually.

 

For some reason I don't think that having a very quiet teenage boy that enjoys hanging with his dad funny. I'm kinda envious because I know my boys are going to be handfuls and extremely active.

[greengoddess]

He's very quiet and introverted yet is a hockey player? yea ok. and dad goes home at night to spend hours playing video games with him? yea ok.

 

Please step outside yourself and examine this from an outsiders point of view. Look what you have yourself involved in. Also what will happen if this boy is this introverted and is always with dad when you get discovered. What will this do to this boy when his dad that he looks up to is not who he thinks he is.

 

I guaruntee when mom finds out she will not hold back her anger because a 16 year old is home.

 

I'm sorry this really. really spells disaster.

[Kenzo]

I beg to differ. You are talking apples and oranges. Cheating is not a disease you carry around with you that you have a craving to go back to!

 

 

Craving for the MM in particular that you are involved with...not for any random MM...I fear I will always crave him. It actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[rdnkgrl31]

Yeah, I will NEVER involve myself w/ another MM. This was a one time deal, and that isn't turning out so great.

[outofdarkness]

He's not your average on-the-go teenage boy. He's was born extremely premature(24 1/2 weeks) and has had developmental problems so he doesn't have his license yet. He's actually quite introverted. The only thing this kid ever does without his dad is play hockey. He doesn't date because he isn't into girls yet, or go to the movies like normal kids. He spends hours playing the live x-box crap. Fortunately, his dad is a video game junkie too. He goes to bed around 10:30, sometimes later but not usually.

 

For some reason I don't think that having a very quiet teenage boy that enjoys hanging with his dad funny. I'm kinda envious because I know my boys are going to be handfuls and extremely active.

Don't be on it just b/c he's very quiet and plays x box all the time. Many times, it's the quiet ones that "feel" so deeply and are so perceptive. Still water runs deep!

[outofdarkness]

I just wanted to add one thought to the thread regarding the kids of the MM and BS...How do you explain why their Mom has totally fallen apart and can't function? How do you explain that Dad is gone? In the case of infidelity, the RIGHT thing to do IMHO, is to tell them the truth..Otherwise, they will most likely blame themselves...Had my H not been honest w/ them as to why he was packing his bags to leave home, they would have thought Mom to be a really wacko mean person who forced their Dad out. That's not fair or right...IMO...

[rdnkgrl31]

I cannot agree w/ "having" to tell the kids the truth, and lying to the kids. You do not have to tell your kids that the W/H cheated, that is putting them in the middle of something between the H/W. Quite simply, you tell the kids the truth, in the fact that, we just don't work well together, the marriage isn't working, and etc. There is no good reason to tell the child that the other cheated.

 

What happened between my ex and I, is none of my sons business. That had nothing to do w/ his dad's parenting skills at all. The love was just not there anymore between us, not our son. And it is really hard to end it, especially when there are children involved. If I ran to my son, and said your dad cheated on me, that's just mean. My son does not need to be hurt by what his dad did to me. That is my pain, not my sons.

[Salicious Crumb]

If I ran to my son, and said your dad cheated on me, that's just mean. My son does not need to be hurt by what his dad did to me. That is my pain, not my sons.

 

There is a difference between running to your kids and readily offering up the explanation of cheating and the kids demanding to know the truth.

 

If I ever divorce and my kids ask if she or I were unfaithful...I would tell them the truth. I won't lie to my kids.

 

Besides...they will more than likely know in the event of a divorce, because I would go for custody...and if the lawyer thought it might make a difference, her cheating would probably be brought out in court anyway.

 

Is a cheating parent a bad parent?...yes and no. Directly..no it doesn't make them a bad parent...indirectly since they didn't care enough about the family to keep their pants on.

 

But thats not why it would be brought up in court...it would be brought up to show that I didn't ask for this to happen and shouldn't be penalized to be without my kids because of what she did.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, eventually the truth comes out...Kids have a way of finding stuff out. So, when the time comes that happens, it's only fair to be honest and also most importantly - MAKE the kids understand that it isn't their fault and don't demonize the spouse that cheated. Rise above it, no matter how hard it is and no matter how much you wanna slam the cheating spouse... Let the kids decide for themselves how they want to feel about their cheating parent.

 

But with that being said, the BS can encourage the kids to deal with it all in a healthy way and help them cope better...

[Salicious Crumb]

MAKE the kids understand that it isn't their fault and don't demonize the spouse that cheated. Rise above it, no matter how hard it is and no matter how much you wanna slam the cheating spouse... Let the kids decide for themselves how they want to feel about their cheating parent..

 

Exactly...well said.

 

You can tell the truth without "demonizing" the other parent.

You can say when asked, "your mother/father was unfaithful"......not, "Your mother/father is a worthless cheating bitch/bastard"...no matter how true that statement might be.

[whichwayisup]

Here's a pretty f'ed up situation - but unbelievably EVERYONE involved, kids included - Are all okay, thriving and happy...

 

Situation: Couple married young, HS sweethearts - Have two children. 10 years later she has an affair with new found buddy of her H's - She ends up leaving her H for H's buddy - so H and buddy's wife console eachother. (Buddy and wife have no children). Eventually H and buddy's wife get close, and have a relationship. 4 years later, H and buddy's wife are married, buddy and the WS married - Share custody of kids, all get along great too, even more so because buddy and WS have a baby, making the baby half siblings to the other kids.

 

They ALL went to family therapy and they ALL worked together to make it easier on the children. Wasn't easy but because the adults involved put their resentful and hurt feelings aside, it worked.

 

Weird situation, not many turn out like that, but luckily for them, it did.

[movinon05]

Oh I think you are wrong there....I think cheaters will always crave an affair....they can just choose not to.

 

Thats why most cheaters don't stop until they are caught and are only sorry when they are caught.

 

No, I am not wrong. Again, we are talking apples and oranges. When someone is in the middle of the A, they may crave to be with that person, but not crave being in an A itself, so that if that one did not work out they would look for another A.

 

And I know for a fact that many OW/OM would never do it again. They don't crave that situation at all. So its nothing like an alcoholic would crave alcohol. Two different animals.

[Tomcat33]

No, I am not wrong. Again, we are talking apples and oranges. When someone is in the middle of the A, they may crave to be with that person, but not crave being in an A itself, so that if that one did not work out they would look for another A.

 

And I know for a fact that many OW/OM would never do it again. They don't crave that situation at all. So its nothing like an alcoholic would crave alcohol. Two different animals.

 

 

Hey Movin get used to it, around here once a cheater always a cheater and once and OW/OM always an OW/OM. We are just a bunch of sexcraved, unscrupulous ba@#$ds that thrive on harming other people, and thrive on affairs.

 

Ok so that was a little sarcastic....

 

but seriously all I keep reading in these forums are the same old comments about the same old stereotypes. It is very diffcult to have a conversation when when people just talk in absolutes, and in stereotypes.

 

I could not agree more that people may like how they feel with the person but absolutely HATE the affair.

 

As per telling the kids, WHY drag them into the whole mess? Why pit them against one of the parents. If the child's well being is in the best interest I don't see the point of EVER telling the child their dad/mom had an affair. If they were good solid parents isn't that more than a child could hope for?