any answers to these questions

[smartgirl]

I am a BS working to rebuild an almost 35 year relationship after my Hs yearlong A. I've done a ton of reading and my H and I have discussed what happened in detail. I've also been through a few of the LS forums on and off since last fall. Based on all of this info, I just have to ask some questions of the OWs.

 

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE NASTY, so please don't take these questions the wrong way. Its just that with all I've heard and read I keep wondering about the same questions:

 

1) When the mm lies to a woman he loved enough to marry and probably have children with and still choses to live with, why do you think he isn't lying to you? What makes you believe that you are the only one being told the truth?

 

2) If the mm says he will leave his wife at a point in time that is years away or otherwise undefined, why would you agree to wait that long to be able have a normal relationship? Doesn't it seem more likely that he is "managing" the two relationships so he can continue in both? (Statistically, if a mm is going to leave he does so within the first three months. After that time, the percentage of men who leave their spouses drops to below 1%.)

 

3) The mm is selfishly pursuing his own desires at the expense of an innocent spouse and maybe children. He expects you to sit around and see him when it fits with his schedule. Why would you want to be with someone so self-centered and who puts you last in his priorities? If he wasn't married and you were dating, would you be ok with him calling all the shots on what you do and when you do it?

 

4) Is the little bit of time you spend with the mm really so fulfilling that you are willing to put up with all the other crap? I know the sex is probably hot and the proclaimations of love make you feel great, but is that really enough? Doesn't the whole thing really make you feel more sad than happy?

 

5) How much do you really know about this guy? Inside the bubble you share with him, how much do you know first hand about his character and behavior? In fact, wouldn't the kind of things he's doing with you tend to make you think his character was weak and flawed?

 

6) Do you think that if he left his wife and married you, he would treat you with the same amount of emotion and desire that he does now? Isn't it more likely that he would shift into comfortable mode and begin treating you just like he does his wife? (Odds are that is what will happen and that is why over 75% of marriages between former affair partners fail) Does that look like the kind of relationship you want to have?

 

7) Are you really happy or are you just hooked? I hear a lot of hope and wishing and longing in these threads, but I don't hear many people who are actually happy with the life they are living. It is like their lives are on hold in a way, waiting for another person to take some ugly, painful action and then maybe, just maybe they can be happy. This seems so sad to me.

 

As I said, I am not trying to be nasty. But I hear so much sadness here.

 

If you have thoughts please post, but maybe these are really just rhetorical questions.

[amaysngrace]

Why aren't you looking to you husband for any answers you may have questions to?

 

Ask a OW and aren't really just setting yourself up for more torture? You can ask ten different people the same question and you may come up with ten different answers.

 

Generalizations are bad. No two are the same or think the same. Other women included. They just have something in common.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, but seriously, you are prolonging your own agony. This isn't the way to go about finding inner peace.

 

Do you want a OW to say they're sorry? That they are wrong? Would that make you feel better? No, probably not. People who cheat have a mentality that many can't understand.

 

Why bother trying?

[NoIDidn't]

I post this is no way to make little of your pain.

 

I am not an OW, by the way.

 

You will more than likely never get answers that are good enough for you. I say that, because I still don't have the answers. And more than likely the OWs will ask you, why stay with a man that you say does those kinds of things?

 

A 35 year M is formidable. Just know that his OW underestimated that fact and must have thought she was pretty sweet stuff for having a man that was going to leave a 35 year M for her.

 

Try not to demonize her though. She was lacking something in her life and needed the ego boost of thinking she was the superior woman. She must have been feeling pretty inferior elsewhere in her life.

 

Read through some of the longer threads from the past couple of months. The answers you seek are there. We, the BWs, always ask the same questions (Why be with a man that lies to his W, What is wrong with your self-esteem, Don't you want better for yourself, etc.). They, the OWs, ask the same questions too (Will he leave, What does it mean, Why won't he call, etc.). So its all good.

 

Some questions can never be satisfactorily answered. Just be glad you are not posing them to yourself.

[puddleofmud]

From what I've learned few affairs are merely about HOT sex; actually OP and their partners seem to share an often very deep emotional affiliation and "do" pretty much the same things a BF & GF "do" (even with parameters in place) as in sharing movies, walks, fishing in a pond, or whatever similar interests.

This may not be what one wants to hear, but it does seem that affairs are, though compartmentalized, about more like being actual partners than one would wish.

"Flings/sexual hook-ups" are about sex; where actual long-term affairs are probably not.

[Cliche]

It is a fact of life that marriages end. Knowing that, it isn't really so difficult to understand why someone would think someone's marriage would end, and they might be the future relationship.

 

7) Are you really happy or are you just hooked? I hear a lot of hope and wishing and longing in these threads, but I don't hear many people who are actually happy with the life they are living. It is like their lives are on hold in a way, waiting for another person to take some ugly, painful action and then maybe, just maybe they can be happy. This seems so sad to me.

I was married for 10 years and have been divorced 3 years. I can tell you that the pain that I felt when my marriage was in a terrible place and I knew it was ending but held onto that hope that it could work was exactly the same as my pain in this A (affair, not a$$, but both could be applicable in this circumstance), hoping that it would work. In that respect, I think you and I might both be able to answer this question. The relationships just really aren't that different. We all hope and hurt the same way.

[whichwayisup]

I think you and I might both be able to answer this question. The relationships just really aren't that different. We all hope and hurt the same way.

 

Are you talking about OW relationship/affair with MM and comparing it to the husband, wife and their marriage? The two cannot be compared....Sorry, it just can't.

[Cliche]

Are you talking about OW relationship/affair with MM and comparing it to the husband, wife and their marriage? The two cannot be compared....Sorry, it just can't.

No, not comparing the relationship at all, just the pain of holding onto an ending relationship. And having been through both, yeah, it's the same pain (granted with different levels of intensity and duration...but the same).

[amaysngrace]

No, not comparing the relationship at all, just the pain of holding onto an ending relationship. And having been through both, yeah, it's the same pain (granted with different levels of intensity and duration...but the same).

 

 

There is another factor here...a living, breathing person. Who I'm sure would provoke the most craziest thoughts, more crazy than you or I could possibly imagine. Picture your exH in the arms of another woman while you two were married.

 

I, too, endured a hell of a marriage. Nine years. Been divorced for over a year now. It's not easy going through what I went through, or you, but let's be fair here.

 

Have you truly given any thought to what you're saying?

[Cliche]

Have you truly given any thought to what you're saying?

Yes, I have.

 

The hope is the same. Having it die is the same pain (and yes, even when a marriage is saved after that pain, that pain was there...it's the same).

 

But, anyway, I think I'll cease answering the questions here. I think Ws and OW have more in common than different, but I also know that there is a reluctance to think as sisters sometimes and more of a desire to distinguish ourselves. The truth of the matter, though, is that men who hurt women hurt women the same no matter the woman's status.

[whichwayisup]

The hope is the same. Having it die is the same pain (and yes, even when a marriage is saved after that pain, that pain was there...it's the same).

But how can 5,10,20 or 35 years of marriage, that PAIN, that history, families entwined, a life built compare to the pain an OW feels? Sorry, the comparison isn't fair for betrayed spouses. And the BS gets that pain inflicted on her, the OW involves herself with a MM by choice. The BS doesn't have a choice. Please don't justify it.

 

Yes, pain is pain but you're going to get into some heated dicussions with many people here by saying BS's and OW's are like sisters (sister's don't sleep with eachothers husbands, and sister's don't betray eachother like that).

[amaysngrace]

 

The hope is the same.

 

 

I guess you are right. The hope is the same. But the trust factor mixed with the jealousy factor seems to me to be the most difficult tasks in saving a marriage where one spouse was unfaithful.

 

Hope is on a rung pretty far down the ladder, IMO.

 

These are things that you and I were thankfully spared in our marriages. And maybe neither one of us has the wisdom to post on these forums?

[amaysngrace]

And one more thing, Cliche, has it ever occurred to you that you sought out to have an affair with a married man because you're still distraught over the ending of your own marriage?

 

Or did your affair occur prior to your marriage and am I completely off-base here?

[smartgirl]

Wow. Didn't expect this kind of response. You all missed my original point. I wasn't asking those questions because I needed the information. I know what was going on with my Hs OW - she was married to an old guy and looking to trade up - among other things. He and I have talked about every aspect of this and I understand what happened. Don't need to go into it - but he had long standing issues ignited by some current problems. It really wasn't about me or about her. It was all about him and the particular place and time he was in.

 

I was asking those questions because of what I read in the posts. I feel like one poster after another shares their heartbreaking experiences and while everyone thinks their experience is utterly unique, they really all seem very similar to me. I know it may not seem this way to someone who is involved, but to me it sounds like people keep hitting their head against the same wall.

[Cliche]

And one more thing, Cliche, has it ever occurred to you that you sought out to have an affair with a married man because you're still distraught over the ending of your own marriage?

 

Or did your affair occur prior to your marriage and am I completely off-base here?

 

 

No, you are off base. Long story I have no interest in getting into, but the pain I went through in my marriage all occured before I kicked exh out. I didn't date for almost 3 years just because I was happier alone and I threw myself into a totally new life, i.e., law school. exMM was not sought out. He pursued me and I did not know he was a "married man." He told me the divorce was in process and his wife was completely out of the picture.

[smartgirl]

I've now gone through all the posts and I'm sorry this devolved into a BS vs OW thing - not my intention. Someone said something about "sisters" and that is more to my point.

 

I have teenage girls and I think a lot about how I want them to be in relationships with boys, expecially since I was kind of insecure about myself in high school. Of course, most girls are. And as a result, they look to boys/men to fill in the gaps and provide validation. So to me, that is the underlying issue and what I was driving at in my orginal post - why do women tolerate situations where the man has all the power and they have none? Why do they tolerate situations where they are getting the short end of the stick?

 

At this point in my life, I'm doing ok. I chose to work things out with my husband for a lot of reasons - including what I understand about him as a person, my belief in the importance of forgiveness and because he has been willing to put in a lot of hard work to make our marriage even better than it was before. We've been together since we were 15,so I know him and love him in ways that can't be described. It was still a great marriage even during the affair, as strange as that sounds. As I said, it was more about something inside my husband that he had to sort out. I can empathize with his personal issues as I have had similar feelings.

 

This is the kind of relationship I want for my girls - even if it has some warts. I wouldn't want them in the kind of relationships I read about here. I want them to find someone to love who is free to give that love.

 

I have read many posts from women who somehow know this and want to be free of the pain and manipulation. But they go back to the mm again and again. They call it love. But when you hear the unhappiness in the words - it doesn't sound like love. At least not what I consider true love to be. It sounds more like addiction with a loss of free will.

 

I'm not looking for any answers for myself here. Just want to get some ideas out.

[Tomcat33]

Ok I'll bite...only because I think we can prove that even though we are on opposite spectrums we can still talk like the adults that we are and hopefully LEARN from one another. I think that is the prupose of this forum....is it not?

 

1) When the mm lies to a woman he loved enough to marry and probably have children with and still choses to live with, why do you think he isn't lying to you? What makes you believe that you are the only one being told the truth?

 

 

]I had no prior experience getting involved with a man that was already spoken for. I thought our situation was unique (it felt unique it felt like our paths crossed for many reasons which I cannot go into details here, we started off working on a project together, our passion for our profession brought us together and we worked on a project) So call me naive but I thought that he was being honest with me. As per his wife she was never home, she was travelling due to work and so when the EA started she was really never in the picture other than in theory. He was honest there was nothing there. Not only did he have me believe they had long been living seperate lives under the same roof, the proof was there in actions.

 

2) If the mm says he will leave his wife at a point in time that is years away or otherwise undefined, why would you agree to wait that long to be able have a normal relationship? Doesn't it seem more likely that he is "managing" the two relationships so he can continue in both? (Statistically, if a mm is going to leave he does so within the first three months. After that time, the percentage of men who leave their spouses drops to below 1%.)

 

When our EA started I told him that we could not work together let alone see each other any more. I cut it off cold turkey, told him to work on his rel. assured him our conenction was just the 7yr itch or boredome (I didn't really believe that but I never let on that I thought differently) he denied it, he assured me this was different. What we had was different. He agreed we could not get more emotionally involved until he was a free man and we cooled it for a few months then the texts emails started and he could not stop thinking about me (or I him, to be brutally honest). He decided he would be out (I told him NOTHING would happen between us if he still lived at home either go back and work on the marriage or get out and be free but none of this in between stuff) I was not cut out to be an OW and nor did I want to be a home wrecker. he assured me he was ready to go on his own this was years of breakdown in the works, totally independant of having met me. I believed him. With many hicups he fianlly moved out and within a few months we started dating.

 

The one thing I wanted to avoid at ALL costs was to make it "easy"for him to have his cake and eat it too. But because I faught so hard to do it on my terms it created a lot of pressure on him to be with me where as he thought he would move out and be happily ever after I was never quite satisfied. I wanted it to be all or nothing so at the same time I wanted to end it I was in too deep and had fallen completely in love with him, we talked about how we would raise our children what type of schools they would go where we would marry, live etc. We were a match made in heave except for all the arguing because once he moved out the rel. stopped progressing, he started to drag his feet about finalizing the separation and moving into divorce and that is when all my doubts began and all the insecurities on my part and the "pressure".

 

 

3) The mm is selfishly pursuing his own desires at the expense of an innocent spouse and maybe children. He expects you to sit around and see him when it fits with his schedule. Why would you want to be with someone so self-centered and who puts you last in his priorities? If he wasn't married and you were dating, would you be ok with him calling all the shots on what you do and when you do it?

 

 

You're right at times I've called him that because he put off facing the music while assuring me it was a done deal, so he acted very selfishly. That was one of the insults he hated most coming from me. In my case there were only a few isntances at the begining where I had to spend weekends alone if she came home from one of her trips but other than than he was always avaiable to me. On two occasions where he move back home and dumped me on email due to panic and her begging him to give the marriage a last fair chance he left me hanging and I got a real taste for what OW who see men that are still at home must go though. That was torture enough to know there was no way in hell I would put up with that. You are also right in that he expected me to wait for his "timelines" and that was not good enough for me. I tried to end it many times only to find myself drawn back again. I was in way over my head and completely lost my bargaining power.

4) Is the little bit of time you spend with the mm really so fulfilling that you are willing to put up with all the other crap? I know the sex is probably hot and the proclaimations of love make you feel great, but is that really enough? Doesn't the whole thing really make you feel more sad than happy?

 

My case was unique I spend a LOT of time with him but the idea that he was till married did my head in. i could not enjoy my time with him knowing he could go back at any given point so in a way I think I may have sabotaged any chance at a true rel between us. It absolutely made me feel terrible hence the messed up state I am left in right now. We are in NC he needed to be alone. I have no idea if he is in contact with his W or if he really is alone all I know is that we are not together

 

5) How much do you really know about this guy? Inside the bubble you share with him, how much do you know first hand about his character and behavior? In fact, wouldn't the kind of things he's doing with you tend to make you think his character was weak and flawed?

 

Again I know what I lived in all the months we were together but I don't know him much at all I am coming to realise I don't know him with his past left behind I know him with his present staring me in the face daily and that was torture. no amount of "I love yous" "Im crazy about you"or romatic gestures were enough knowing he was seperated but still married

 

The character flaws comment is subjective if you will, it's an abstract concept because on the one hand he assured me he was acting out of character the whole time whe knew each other, on the other the only character I knew was the one in front of me, so there lies the torturous dilemna of "should I trust this is circumstancial or is he really a creep" My gut told me he it was circumstancial but at times my doubts got the best of me and I tested his character by showing my disdain in his actions towards his W and myself, and he resented me for that

 

 

6) Do you think that if he left his wife and married you, he would treat you with the same amount of emotion and desire that he does now? Isn't it more likely that he would shift into comfortable mode and begin treating you just like he does his wife? (Odds are that is what will happen and that is why over 75% of marriages between former affair partners fail) Does that look like the kind of relationship you want to have?

 

 

 

This is totally a loaded question and I find it almost patronizing in the tone. What person expects their relationship to be as it was in the begining stages of mutual discovery? Maybe a 17 yr old child with no experience. So no to answer your question I did not expect to run off into the sunset skipping though fileds on sun filled days for the rest of our lives. But after living such an intense experience of the deceit and pain that entails for all parties involved in order for these types of relationships to get off the ground, I hoped to have learned from all of our mistakes to aim for a relationship that would have started off in pain but that could use that pain for self improvement and to never have to go down that path again, EVER. Both he and I learned some of life's most valuable lessons we discussed this many times and we suffered tremendously. And why can't human beings learn from something like this, even a betrayed spouse can learn from something like this? Why is it that there are NO exceptions to the rules?

 

]As per the last part of "is this the type of rel. you want?" I could ask the very same thing to the spouses who take back their mates after being stabbed in the back the way they were. Why DO they take them back? The answer is simple, for the very same reason we fell so inlove with these men to begin with, for the great things in them that also made the spouses fall for them. It''s a simple quiestion with a simple answer. It's no differenet for us than it is for the spouses who want to take them back after being betrayed.

 

I hear a lot of hope and wishing and longing in these threads, but I don't hear many people who are actually happy with the life they are living. It is like their lives are on hold in a way, waiting for another person to take some ugly, painful action and then maybe, just maybe they can be happy. This seems so sad to me.

 

 

 

Of course we are not happy , why would we be on here looking for answers if we were!?!? Our lives are on hold. Our lives were put on hold the moment we made the choice to walk on thin ice. But after reading all these cases there is always the hope that the case of the beholder is "different"it won't turn out like the rest, and for that we have the people who we get involved with who fill us with promises that some of us get to live and some of us don't. It's like winning the lottery it's one in a million but what if I am that one. You know.... when you are head over heels in love it's been compared to having temporary madness overcome you, and so once the dust settles and we come up for some air and reality sets in we come here and anywhere for answers, come here looking for the why's and how come's and it's only then that we realise that we didn't win the lottery that our hopes were nothing more than that. But you have to come off the high to see it.

[woe_is_me]

I know what was going on with my Hs OW - she was married to an old guy and looking to trade up

 

 

This is where you can't get simple answers to your questions.

 

Some OW aren't married or with anybody else. I doubt i could live with that kind of confusion at all. And just because some OW do have a partner they're also betraying, that doesn't make their feelings for the MM they're involved with any less real or painful than women who don't have a partner or aren't married.

 

Interesting questions smartgirl.. some of them have made me question myself..

 

I couldn't put up with my exH having a one night stand. I lost trust and the desire to sleep with him we broke up seven years ago.

 

My MM however kept himself in my life for twelve long months. Why didn't he leave it at a one night stand..? and as someone that couldn't even deal with a partner having a one night stand i can only wonder how a wife puts up with serial cheating or LONG term affairs.. we ALL have questions...

 

i already know the answer ..its because we are all different and we all have different bottom lines.

 

and for someone who was married my exmm got a little too possesive sometimes..once it was because of my exH (we do have children together but MM thinks that we shouldn't be friends? just because he and his wife aren't? and not be amicable because he and his wife aren't?) god its crazy! ..and i'd be thinking .."hello...whose the one thats married?"

 

he was most probably going to be a control freak and if you really want to know the truth i don't think we (MM & i) could put up with each other.

 

If having her lawns mowed and shopping carried around and house paid off by some lying cheating azzhole that she sleeps with once a year makes her happy then thats her choice.. I'd rather mow my own lawns and my exH still carries my shopping sometimes hehe:p

exH has been sorry ever since his O.N.S... poor guy..so i do understand that there are some MMs who do indeed love the wives theyve betrayed. My exH is one of them. Just lately i've reminded him of WHY we aren't still together because it was so long ago sometimes i even forget.

 

I still don't know whats going to happen. Thank you for an interesting post smartgirl. You touched on a lot of issues.

 

MM never really lied and said he was going to leave the M i knew he loved his children way too much for that. And he said that he had too much tools and things. Too much to store anywhere...

 

I came to these forums wondering why the hell he would call me after 4 years of no contact.

I dont really have to think too long and hard about that one though do i ...

[woe_is_me]

From what I've learned few affairs are merely about HOT sex; actually OP and their partners seem to share an often very deep emotional affiliation and "do" pretty much the same things a BF & GF "do" (even with parameters in place) as in sharing movies, walks, fishing in a pond, or whatever similar interests.

This may not be what one wants to hear, but it does seem that affairs are, though compartmentalized, about more like being actual partners than one would wish.

"Flings/sexual hook-ups" are about sex; where actual long-term affairs are probably not.

 

so true puddle...

[SoxPrincess]

I'll answer the questions also and for the exact reasons Tomcat mentioned above. I am an exOW now, so I hope that is OK that I am responding.

 

1) When the mm lies to a woman he loved enough to marry and probably have children with and still choses to live with, why do you think he isn't lying to you? What makes you believe that you are the only one being told the truth?

This is a very good question and one that is difficult to answer. For me, I think it was a combination of two things. I believed every word exMM told me for several months because his sob story and smooth talking wore down my defenses. I think my normal BS radar disappeared because he drew me in with how awful his life was and how ignored he was, etc. The second reason is I think a lot of OW's choose to believe their "relationship" with MM is unique and just because he lies to his W, doesn't mean he will lie to us. I certainly thought that and never gave it a second thought until several months in and didn't come to full terms with it until our A ended. Also, this was the first time I had ever been involved with an MM, so I guess I wasn't wise to the "tricks".

 

2) If the mm says he will leave his wife at a point in time that is years away or otherwise undefined, why would you agree to wait that long to be able have a normal relationship? Doesn't it seem more likely that he is "managing" the two relationships so he can continue in both? (Statistically, if a mm is going to leave he does so within the first three months. After that time, the percentage of men who leave their spouses drops to below 1%.)

exMM never game me a time line that was years down the road. We met in September, he wanted to move out and in with me in December ( I said no ), then he said he would move out in late February and he finally did move out in late May into his own apartment. exMM told me he was in the process of getting a divorce, that he had seen an attorney and everything was moving forward. After our A ended, I found out that the night he moved out, he told W he just needed a break and there was never talk of divorce. exMM and I lived several states apart so it was very convenient for him as he would always be at his apartment when I was visiting, but I found out after that when I wasn't there, he spent the majority of his time at home.

 

3) The mm is selfishly pursuing his own desires at the expense of an innocent spouse and maybe children. He expects you to sit around and see him when it fits with his schedule. Why would you want to be with someone so self-centered and who puts you last in his priorities? If he wasn't married and you were dating, would you be ok with him calling all the shots on what you do and when you do it?

Again, exMM and I lived several states apart so there was never really an issue of fitting me in his schedule. We would set up times for me to visit when it was convenient for both of us and when we weren't physically together, we spoke on the phone everyday and corresponded through email. Truthfully, I was never treated last in his priorities or at least I never felt that way until the end of our A. He always made time to talk to me, made himself available to talk to me at all hours, we vacationed together, etc. If he wasn't married and we were dating and still living several states apart, I would expect the situation would have been close to what it was anyway just because of the distance factor.

 

4) Is the little bit of time you spend with the mm really so fulfilling that you are willing to put up with all the other crap? I know the sex is probably hot and the proclaimations of love make you feel great, but is that really enough? Doesn't the whole thing really make you feel more sad than happy?

In the beginning, yes the time I spent with exMM when we were together physically (at the same location, not sex) and the time we spent communicating via phone and email was worth putting up with everything. exMM was the first person I've ever really opened up to emotionally, we shared a lot of secrets and spent a lot of time talking, but to answer your question, after several months, yes I was more sad than happy. I became overwhelmed with guilt, I started putting together the lies and there was always a ton of drama.

 

5) How much do you really know about this guy? Inside the bubble you share with him, how much do you know first hand about his character and behavior? In fact, wouldn't the kind of things he's doing with you tend to make you think his character was weak and flawed?

This question is hard for me. I thought I knew exMM better than anyone in the world because of the things we shared together through our discussions. We spent countless hours discussing our relatives, family stories from our childhood, we both lost our fathers at a young age..we really had quite a bit in common and I felt comfortable with him which I never had with anyone before. In the end, yes I knew all of those things but I also learned he was a pathological liar, a sociopath and a raging narcissist. I never thought his character was weak and flawed because of our relationship during the first few months because he had me snowed so good, but after, yes I definitely realized how truly flawed he is.

 

6) Do you think that if he left his wife and married you, he would treat you with the same amount of emotion and desire that he does now? Isn't it more likely that he would shift into comfortable mode and begin treating you just like he does his wife? (Odds are that is what will happen and that is why over 75% of marriages between former affair partners fail) Does that look like the kind of relationship you want to have?

Again, during the few first months of the A, I truly believed I was his soul mate and that he would treat me as such. We were always very affectionate and passionate towards one another and there was a time when I thought that would last forever. I realized that wouldn't be the case once I started questioning things and because of those inquiries I was told by exMM "You're making me realize my marriage wasn't as bad as I thought." It was then I realized that all he wanted was an escape from his marriage not to get away from his marriage and if we had stayed together he would treat me the same way as he was treating his W.

7) Are you really happy or are you just hooked? I hear a lot of hope and wishing and longing in these threads, but I don't hear many people who are actually happy with the life they are living. It is like their lives are on hold in a way, waiting for another person to take some ugly, painful action and then maybe, just maybe they can be happy. This seems so sad to me.

I am happy now because I am out of the A. I never realized how weighed down I was because of it, I never saw how the drama and the guilt affected me emotionally and physically until it was over and now I am 150% happier than I ever would have been if the A had continued.

[torranceshipman]

Hey Smart Girl,

I can add to this post - I was involved with someone who had been a long time friend of about 5yrs (supposedly a friend, anyway!) and we were involved for about 6 months (which included all the times I ended it and periods apart) - I am a very confident, self assured person and abhor liars and cheats BUT this guy literally seemed to have no conscience at all when it came to lying to get what he wanted. It's not that OW's want ego boosts here, it's that the MM sadly tends to criticise and berate their W and M to such an extent, that the potential OW really believe a D is 100% on the cards...the MM treats the OW in a great way at the start and really just lies and lies! - with hindsight its easy to ask, why not wait until the D had gone through or the R had ended, but if you are a very trusting person, you believe the MM is being honest with you....for me the guy wasnt married and had no kids but had a long term girlfriend...the moment I had the feeling he was dragging his heels, I tried to end it - he kept really pursuing me and making promises he couldnt keep so I ended it finally...he then acted very badly toward me by pulling rank at work - and later apologising for it (we work together) - and now I'm just so incredibly relieved I got away from him! He's a loser, really...I can honestly say all those lies have made him a weak, cowardly person in my eyes, and really not much of a man. Had he presented himself to me in a truthful way I'd have had zero interest in him (which is actually what happened as he had shown great interest in me for all of these years and only the pretense that it was over with his long term G, plus presenting himself and his personality in a way he THOUGHT would appeal to me, won me over - albeit briefly). The whole thing is just sleazy to me now...hideous guy!

 

Please also be aware that a lot of these guys have no conscience about selling out their W and M by disrespecting them in both being with an OW, and also talking really badly about the W and the M (then being that 2 faced that they go home and act like everythings ok....I also think guilt maight make them treat a W better during the A!). I just feel bad for his girlfriend now - there's a much sweeter, lovelier guy out there for her, that would actually respect her, and she should be told about the way this guy has treated her....not many OWs are in favour of telling the W but I always am as the truth is a great, great thing. Even when the MM comes clean about the A to the W, remember you are only getting the true story as he packages it.

 

How did you make the decision to stay? I teach teenagers and I agree with you that they need good role models, especially when it comes to how a man should act in a R. Do they know what your H did?

[bigblueeyes]

I don't want to start a fight, but just want to play Devil's advocate here.

 

I believe that both the OW and the BW are at the end of the day victims of the manipulation of MM. I hate to say this, but both women are getting played and very badly. And trust me, a lot of what I will write below can be applied to the OW as well, so I am NOT OUT TO GET ANYBODY. This is just meant as food for thought

 

So here goes To BW:

 

1) Why do you want to stay in marriage with a man who has betrayed your trust by having a relationship with another woman, and who in the course of this relationship has painted you, his wife, and your marriage with a big black brush? NO MAN IS THAT IMPORTANT!!

 

2) Why do so many married women act like their life is over when they face the prospect of divorce?? Why do they reduce themselves and their lives to nothing, saying that life is meaningless without MM? NO MAN IS THAT IMPORTANT!!!

 

3) Why do BW automatically blame the OW?? Especially when the affair is long-term. I'm sorry, but it is not like MM is an innocent little boy. He is very aware of what he is doing, which is why he also knows he has to make promises of a future to the OW to keep her. Also by pointing the big finger of blame on the OW, BW is basically taking all responsibility for the failure of the marriage away from herself and MM. And that ain't gonna save their relationship. Why don't BW hold their straying spouses responsible for their actions? Why do they let him off the hook?? NO MAN IS THAT IMPORTANT!!!!

 

4) My MM has told me is wife has resorted to very hardcore threats to stop him from leaving, including that she will poison the children's minds, so they will hate me and him for the rest of their lives. This will only hurt the children. So why do loving, kind mothers want to hurt their own children to get back at MM? NO MAN IS THAT IMPORTANT!!!

 

5) Why are you so naive and blue-eyed that you believe him when he says he will never stray again? And why are you surprised when he starts contacting the OW again?? Why do you let him get away with crushing you more than once?? NO MAN IS THAT IMPORTANT!!!!!

 

I understand the pain, I understand the hurt. Any woman would, married or not.

 

But this is not about who is hurting the most. This is about us and we, being it OW or BW, gotta regain power and control over our lives and feelings instead of living at the mercy of some man, who treats us badly.

 

We got to stop fighting each other and instead join forces and make sure that the player gets played!!!!

[Seen_It_All]

I believe that both the OW and the BW are at the end of the day victims of the manipulation of MM.

I respect that you believe this, but at the same time, how is it even remotely possible that an OW is a 'victim' at all? I've been an OW in the past, and every decision I made along the way to entering the affair was MY decision and MINE alone, not anyone else's. I was to blame for getting involved where I clearly KNEW I shouldn't have.

 

I wasn't a 'victim' - I was a volunteer. Doesn't matter WHAT lies the MM may tell about his marriage being dead or he's sleeping in the guest room - that STILL doesn't give anyone the 'right' to enter an affair. Who are WE to decide when it's 'ok' to enter into someone else's marriage and when it's not?

 

We're all responsible for our OWN choices. And all OW make the CHOICE to enter into an affair. That hardly makes us victims. The BW, however, never had a choice from the get-go.

[Guest]

a lot of OW's don't realize that "any woman could have filled that spot" not just them. that's quoted from a LOT of MM's

[bigblueeyes]

You are right about the choice for the OW - at the beginning of the affair. But once you have fallen and fallen hard for MM, and he starts making promises without keeping them, the choice starts going out the window.

 

However, I would also like to say that you can only be a victim as long as you allow someone to victimize you, which I why I am saying stand up to MM!!

[whichwayisup]

We got to stop fighting each other and instead join forces and make sure that the player gets played!!!!

 

The OW, by choice, is partially responsible for the BW's pain by sleeping with her husband...