2nd time here and still looking for support

[Cliche]

Hello all,

I was here back in December briefly. I had at that point discovered that mm, who told me he was separated and about to get a divorce, was not separated at all. I received a lot of really great non-judgmental advice and support from all of you. But I was just not ready to leave him at that time. Now, I think I might be.

 

My story sounds like so many of you...the love is an intense love I never felt before. We have an amazing emotional and physical connection. We enjoy every single moment we spend together, except for those where I am upset because of his being married and still living with his wife.

 

Our relationship is now at 10 months. I really, truly believed he'd leave her for me. I still believe--maybe falsely hope--he still might. They have no children. He is there because he can't financially afford to leave. They have no sex, no life together, they are roommates basically. Except for the fact that when she suspects he has a gf, she gets very angry, so there is some sort of emotional attachment yet on her part.

 

He has lied to me. About a lot of things. Where he lived, his age, how often he sees her. I've had to pull the truth out of him and, sometimes, actually play private I. He stayed with me even when he knew I was doing drive bys and stuff.

 

He has also made some changes for me. It bothered me to no end that he'd keep his phone off when she'd be home. So he started keeping it on. He let me meet his mom. He let me talk on the phone to family members. He got close to my kids. He stayed over night. A lot. He took trips with me. He has spent Christmas, Valentine's Day, his birthday and Easter with me. He promises me that he is doing everything to leave and move on to a life with me.

 

But he told me he was separated. And I found out he was over there. When I caught him, he told me that he was only there every once in a while. I found out he lives there full time. He said we would move in together. But then he said he still planned on maintaining his home with his wife (his words--because he was hoping she'd leave and he'd get to stay in the home eventually). Then he said, no really, he'd move in with me. But then he said he worried he might have a problem with living with small kids. Then he said no he wouldn't. But then he said my loopy behavior (all a result of this ****, btw) made him concerned, and he thought we should live separately for just a few months. Sounded good to me, and he said he was moving in with his friend, but it has now been 6 weeks and he hasn't even asked that friend yet if he can move in.

 

I don't know what is going on. But I'm so damn sick of this roller coaster. I told him today that he had to end one of his relationships now. He told me we'd talk. I said I want an answer now. He told me he didn't feel well, could we talk in person one day, why was I acting so crazy. I told him to just tell me it is over. He said okay, if that's what I want.

 

I think I can go through with this. I think I can. But I can't stop wondering if I'm doing the right thing. What if he really was going to leave in June? Did I just ruin my chances at happiness with this man? Did I have a chance to begin with? Why can't I just see that he has both lied to me and blamed me when I caught his lies? Why can't I use that to understand that he wants to trick me, not love me? But what if I'm wrong? What if that is just a human flaw and he really does love me and want me in his life? How do I know I'm not making a mistake by standing my ground on this? Please, are there signs? Anyone with any experience?

[whichwayisup]

They have no sex, no life together

 

I doubt very much that is the truth. Especially since he's lied to you that they were separated and they're not. Good that now you're seeing him a different way and your eyes are opening up to the lies he's feeding you.

 

He isn't going to stand up and take responsibility for his part in this affair. The best thing you can do right now is tell him goodbye and walk out of his life and NEVER look back. Ever. Forget him...He isn't worth thinking of, crying over or anything.

 

He may have feelings for you, but they're all based on HIS needs. And on HIS terms, his time frame, not yours.

 

You are NOT making a mistake by leaving him, you are saving yourself.

 

Here's your future when you get over him - A chance to meet a single man, to date openly, introduce to your WHOLE family and all your friends, be a part of eachothers lives in every way, not just a small hidden part...No more sneaking around, you can go OUT in public and be proud. You get to date, have fun, build your relationship together with someone who will only love you. You could buy a house with that guy, get married and have children. Make your own family...With the MM you don't even get 1/4 of that.

 

He isn't going to leave his wife. Listen to your gut, you know the truth deep inside you, don't let your heart rule here...Think ahead, think wisely and also, take a step back and pretend you're helping out your bestfriend - And she's the one in the affair...What advice would you be giving her?

[Guest]

does his wife know about you? nothing happens until the w becomes suspicious or finds out and then USUALLY he will choose to stay where the money is.

 

married men who do this have something wrong with THEM.

 

There is nothing wrong with you that wasn't already wrong before you met him.

 

they're full of passion because they haven't had any from the wife for so long.

 

they will do ANYTHING to feel that limerance again and to be loved and adored.

 

i can't speak for married men that do get plenty at home and seek sex outside the marriage. That is just plain greedy.

[Cliche]

Whichwayisup, thank you for your support. I really do appreciate attgirl posts.

 

I do truly believe he and his wife have no life together. First, a mutual friend (who doesn't know we date btw) confirmed that for me. Second, there were physical reasons to believe that he hadn't had sex for awhile. Third, there have been weeks where he and I spent so much time together that he couldn't have spent more than 7 total hours the entire week with her. I've also met a lot of his friends and they don't know her. But I've only met his mom in his family. I don't believe they (his family) know his marriage is over as he says it is.

 

I do think he is just staying because it is comfortable. He is older. He had some health problems and likes the fact that he can do minimal work now and relax. She is paying for most everything through her good job. I don't know if he'd ever leave that...just jump off that secure cliff to find out what is there with me. There are issues there, and maybe I should be concerned about them as well...procrastination, irresponsibility, selfishness. It is really hard to see that, though, when he constantly tells you that you are the most wonderful person in the world and perfect in every way. He's never fought with me, it is always me with him (over the married stuff, of course). He treats me like I'm a princess. Except, and I guess it is a big except, he is married and living with his wife and that is pretty disrespectful, huh, even to a princess?

[PoshPrincess]

Cliche, do the best thing you could possibly do for yourself and get the hell out. This man seems to be using you for emotional reasons, just as he is using his W for financial reasons. I understand that he has health problems but she is out earning a living while he sits on his lazy backside. Sorry if this is sounding a bit judgemental but it made me quite angry reading your email.

 

ANYONE can afford to leave a R if they don't have kids providing they are not living off someone else. He could leave if he really wanted to. I am sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear and PLEASE feel free to correct me if I am wrong but you really do deserve better!

[umbo]

"even to a princess?"

 

Dear a princess never sleeps with a married man. So please don't describe what you are doing as noble behavior. In the name of barbaric adultrey for which you call love. Relax just my conviction, I don't think you pick men very and I think this guy is playing with your mind? YOu are still hurting from your last relationship. Let the old fart go you deserve better you why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. YOur old man uses women his relationship that he is in is squealing that he is a womanizer. you should get out quick princess.

[Cliche]

ANYONE can afford to leave a R if they don't have kids providing they are not living off someone else. He could leave if he really wanted to. I am sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear and PLEASE feel free to correct me if I am wrong but you really do deserve better!

 

No, I don't think you're wrong. I think you're right. I've been spending all night going over everything in my head. He could have left. I know that...even said that to him. They own a house with a lot of equity. If money was a problem, all he needed to do was get a divorce and split the proceeds of the house.

 

He never told me he was sorry. When I caught him in his huge ass "I'm separated" lie. He never said he was sorry.

 

I have wanted to call him about 42 times since our "it's over" conversation. But I haven't. I've been able to talk myself into not giving him any more of my power. I've boxed up all of his stuff and I'm getting it the hell of out my house today.

 

You know, I'm not even sure it is him I'm really sad and pining over at this point. I think it's that image of the future I thought we'd have that I'm really missing. Funny, huh?

 

Please all just continue to tell me the truth, painful or not. I may need to stick around here with you folks for a few weeks to help me through. I don't want to be sad alone and, as I'm sure you can imagine, this relationship wasn't one I could talk about with many friends (yaknow, the married thing), so I don't have a lot friends I can talk about the break-up with either.

[Salicious Crumb]

I think I can go through with this. I think I can. But I can't stop wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

 

You are sleeping with another woman's husband. Do you really need to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing?

 

What if he really was going to leave in June? Did I just ruin my chances at happiness with this man?

 

Happiness with a man you just said lies to you? Of course he lies to you...to get what he wants...to keep his home life together and his mistress on the side.

 

 

Did I have a chance to begin with? Why can't I just see that he has both lied to me and blamed me when I caught his lies? Why can't I use that to understand that he wants to trick me, not love me? But what if I'm wrong? What if that is just a human flaw and he really does love me and want me in his life? How do I know I'm not making a mistake by standing my ground on this? Please, are there signs? Anyone with any experience?

 

You were right in the first part of this last paragraph. He's using you.

 

And you are messing around with someone elses husband. Have you ever considered leaving the relationship and finding someone that isn't married?

 

They are out there you know....unmarried men.

[Kenzo]

You know, I'm not even sure it is him I'm really sad and pining over at this point. I think it's that image of the future I thought we'd have that I'm really missing. Funny, huh?

 

How many times I have imagined our future, what it would be like to go to bed with him at the end of the day, it has happened a few times and it felt so good to sleep in his arms (!!). The life that, if he only knew about...the one in my (crazy screwed up) head, would be so perfect.

 

I say this tongue in cheek sort of, but, honestly if he knew the lengths I would go to to ensure that happiness...

 

Cliche--I think about the what if's all the time and the life that could be IF he would just let it, you can't think like that or you'll drive yourself mad, you didn't "ruin" anything, you can't ruin something that never existed from the start. It seems the only thing that is gone for all OW in this position is the fantasy!

[PoshPrincess]

No, I don't think you're wrong. I think you're right. I've been spending all night going over everything in my head. He could have left. I know that...even said that to him. They own a house with a lot of equity. If money was a problem, all he needed to do was get a divorce and split the proceeds of the house.

 

Cliche, I am really glad I didn't offend you. I know I needed the same brutal honesty six months ago when I couldn't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Re what you said about the house and equity. I had been with my son's father for 8 years when I decided I couldn't carry on with our R. I knew the financial implications of my leaving. Up until this time I hadn't had to work sine having our son (other than a bit of casual work for pocket money) and knew leaving my partner would mean going out, getting a full-time job, finding somewhere to live and bringing up my son on my own but I did it all because I was THAT unhappy. I'm not trying to sound like some sort of heroine, sometimes I think I may just be extremely selfish, but I managed to survive. Luckily my ex still helps out financially and is very much more than a part-time Dad and he has had to make sacrifices through no choice of his own. I DO find it hard sometimes, especially working full-time and missing out on a lot of stuff with my son, but we are ALL (even my ex admits this now) much happier. I was lucky enough that my ex could (just about) afford to buy me out of the house so at least we didn't have moving expenses but it CAN be done! Harder if a man decides to move from the marital home and still has kids in full-time education to support, particularly if he only earns a low salary, so there ARE exceptions, plus there are the men who can't bear to leave their kids which I can understand as I would have stayed with my ex if it had meant that otherwise I would've had to leave my son. Other than that, sorry, but no excuse.

 

Cliche, I honestly think your man sounds like a bit of a freeloader who wants to have his cake and eat it. He's looking for an easy life. Don't be the one to give it to him! As for the fact that he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to live with your children, would you REALLY want a man who feels like that?! I am sure your kids are everything to you and this man doesn't deserve to be part of their lives or yours!

[whichwayisup]

Cliche, I honestly think your man sounds like a bit of a freeloader who wants to have his cake and eat it. He's looking for an easy life. Don't be the one to give it to him! As for the fact that he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to live with your children, would you REALLY want a man who feels like that?! I am sure your kids are everything to you and this man doesn't deserve to be part of their lives or yours!

 

I agree 100%.

 

Your children and their needs come first, before your own happiness. This MM won't put your kids needs above his own, so definately be aware of that. IS he father material? Can he actually be unselfish? So far, his actions have shown you otherwise...He's a liar and a cheat, and is that someone you want your children around and to learn from? To take the easy way in life?

[Cliche]

Yeah, well, the kid thing was a big deal. And he apologized and told me it was just a brief thought and he shouldn't have brought it up to me until he really felt is might be a problem. He told me the only reason he mentioned it is because I'm his "best friend," and he's used to telling me everything. Who the hell knows what is true with him anymore? I sure don't.

 

He made so many promises. When I started getting mad that he'd break them, even small ones, he began keeping them, but only after I pushed. Maybe I could have pushed him to move out eventually. But is that the man I want? One I have to push towards me instead of one who wants to come to me freely?

 

Geezus, why does this have to hurt so bad? Why couldn't he have just been a mean ass? But he had to be sweet and loving and so nice to me most of the time. That makes is so much harder. But then I wonder if that was just part of his manipulation. I don't even think he knows that he does manipulate. Maybe it just comes naturally to some.

[whichwayisup]

The ball is in your court now. He isn't motivated to change to his life. The only way to see how much you mean to him and if he really wants to change his life to be with you is to end it, tell him 'call me when the papers are signed and you're officially divorced' and go no contact. Why stay and give him all that he wants, fulfill all his needs? Right now he has TWO women in his life, why would he want that to change? He's got it all.

 

He IS manipulating you, just not in a thinking cruel, malcious way. He probably is a nice guy, but he is VERY deceitful! His lying and wanting everything to stay the same so HE stays happy is proof of this. He's being unfair to you and VERY unfair to his wife.

[Tomcat33]

Geezus, why does this have to hurt so bad? Why couldn't he have just been a mean ass? But he had to be sweet and loving and so nice to me most of the time. That makes is so much harder. But then I wonder if that was just part of his manipulation. I don't even think he knows that he does manipulate. Maybe it just comes naturally to some.

 

Sometimes I think the reason we fall so hard with these men is because they were on their BEST behavior with us. They were nice beyond their own means simply because they did not want to give us up so they knew that by being the best they could be we would be hangin on. I also feel that if we did get a chance to date them day in day out without the interruption of their "other life" I think we might even fall out of love.

I was already starting to see some red flags that I would pass off as "well he is fresh out of a rel. so I should treat this as a temporary red flag" where as for all I know I was getting to know his true character. I would make excuses for the fact that he was still grieving the loss of his marriage but now I'm not so sure they were temporary red flags.

 

That is the part that drives the thoughts to insanity, the fact that we won't know it they were as they were circumstancially or that is really who they were.

[NoIDidn't]

Think of it this way, if he leaves her

 

 

1. I hope you can afford to put him on your insurance as he will lose hers

 

2. I hope you can afford to pay for his medications as she will no longer be paying for them.

 

3. Do you really want this FREE-LOADER to move in with you? 'Cause he is used to someone taking care of him.

 

4. Do you want a big grown baby manchild to take care of? His health issues are his pity point.

 

 

Don't know what kind of support you were looking for, but this sitch is not supportable. We all want to be loved. But this idiot doesn't love you or anyone else. He has used his family to aid him in deceiving you. He uses his W's financial resources and doesn't show any appreciation for it. The whole "move in" thing stings. He has no intention of taking care of himself. He just plans to move from home to home.

 

Biggest red flag is that he threw the blame back on you for catching him in lies. He's a liar. That's all he is capable of being right now. Don't try to rescue him, he will suck you dry. Run, do not walk, to your nearest exit.

[Seen_It_All]

Hello all,

I was here back in December briefly. I had at that point discovered that mm, who told me he was separated and about to get a divorce, was not separated at all.

This guy is the WORST kind of scumbag.

 

 

My story sounds like so many of you...the love is an intense love I never felt before.

If I live to be 200, I'll simply never understand how ANYONE can 'love' a piece of trash whose blatantly LIED to them and CONNED them right from the start - purposely, for their own selfish reasons.

 

We have an amazing emotional and physical connection. We enjoy every single moment we spend together...

I would imagine he's got all the time in the world to hang out with you - since he's letting his wife support his loser a*ss, and all.

 

Our relationship is now at 10 months.

What a crime - 10 precious months of your life that you can NEVER get back - wasted on a loser.

 

They have no sex..

LMAO

 

They have no sex..

Sorry, had to repeat this quote as it was so darned comical. Guess what? Unless YOU or his FRIENDS or his FAMILY MEMBERS - the ones who are all claiming they know ALL about his marriage - are actually in bed every night with these two, then none of you KNOW SQUAT about what he's doing with his meal-ticket .. OOPS, I mean wife. And considering the fact that this piece of garbage wouldn't know the TRUTH if it were crammed down his lying throat, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the GRASS was green - I'd have to walk outside myself and see.

 

He has lied to me.

Don't they all? If he's married and looking to get tail on the side, then he's going to lie. Period. LOL - this parasite even lied about his AGE? What a complete loser. I'm honestly perplexed at how you're able to be in this loser's company and not puke all over his shoes. Seriously. He's utterly repulsive.

 

He stayed with me even when he knew I was doing drive bys and stuff.

Wow, what a GUY! You are SOOOO lucky that you didn't lose this prize. The lying sack of dogsh*it didn't dump you when he found you spying on him? Whew - that's a load off MY mind. I'd hate to see you lose this utter waste of a sperm cell.

 

He let me meet his mom. He let me talk on the phone to family members.

I see where he gets his stellar morals and values from - obviously his MOTHER, who met her married son's girlfriend and thought that was just hunky dorey. And his family members who thought it was just fine to 'meet' his girlfriend over the phone. These people truly put the 'fun' in dysFUNctional.

 

He got close to my kids.

Can I ask why you thought it was in ANY WAY a good thing to introduce a lying piece of SH*T to your own children? A man whose done NOTHING but lie to you, disrespect you, CON you, and use you? What were you THINKING???? Did you tell your kids this paragon of virtue was actually a married, lying cheater? I'll bet not. So that means you lied to THEM. This creep brings NOTHING positive to your life at ALL. Nothing.

 

He promises me that he is doing everything to leave and move on to a life with me.

I've got some oceanfront property in Kentucky I'd love to sell you. This piece of garbage is looking out for NUMBER ONE, of that you can be sure. He's going to choose the 'best deal' available to him, and it would seem his wife is stupid enough to support his loser, lazy a*ss, so why would he give THAT up? Funny that this jerkoff is too "sickly" to work, but NOT too "sickly" to go on vacations with you and have all this intensity and passion with you. Guess he's selective with his 'sickly' health, eh?

 

and he said he was moving in with his friend, but it has now been 6 weeks and he hasn't even asked that friend yet if he can move in.

Of COURSE he hasn't asked his 'friend' if he can move in. The LOSER doesn't WORK and needs someone to SUPPORT him. Is his 'friend' going to support him while he lines up his NEXT meal-ticket..namely, YOU?

 

He said okay, if that's what I want.

My, for someone who claims to love you so much, he sure gave up easily when it came time to put his money where his LYING MOUTH is.

 

But I can't stop wondering if I'm doing the right thing. What if he really was going to leave in June?

Let's say the user DID leave in June. Are you ready to support a lying cheater whose CONNED you and USED YOU from day #1? Are you willing to let this lying piece of trash be some kind of ROLE model for your kids? How could you DO that in good conscience??????

 

Did I just ruin my chances at happiness with this man?

What part of "he CONNED YOU and LIED TO YOU from Day #1 are you not comprehending? Can you be 'happy' with a lazy loser who wants a woman to support him while he's out lying to other women and telling them what a loveless, passionless wife he has? Because that's going to be YOU one day. You're going to be in the same role his poor wife is in right now. Working hard to support this ungrateful piece of sh*it while he's out screwing around and telling his side-piece what a "loveless, sexless monster his wife is" and how he just can't WAIT to leave her.

 

What if that is just a human flaw and he really does love me and want me in his life?

A HUMAN 'FLAW????' Lying and conning, cheating and manipulating, deceiving, using and scamming everyone in his life - all reduced to being a freakin' HUMAN FLAW?

 

Come ON, for God's sake.

[whichwayisup]

What if that is just a human flaw and he really does love me and want me in his life?

 

So what? That doesn't make him the right one for you, or be a father figure for your children. This has nothing to do with love...Remember, you can't just live on love alone.

 

Let me ask you this, would you like it if your kids came home dating someone like your MM? Wouldn't you be really upset and concerned for them? Apply that logic to yourself and don't expose him to your children. Take a step back and see the situation and him for what it is.

 

Seen_it_all, this is the best post reply that I've read in a long long time! I hope that Cliche listens to you.

[Cliche]

Thank you, Seen it all. Your post and No I Didn't's "big grown baby manchild" made me laugh. For that, I'm thankful.

 

You're right. You're all right. Killing the hope is really tough, though. Even though I know that he is not the right man for me since he can't show me the respect of honesty, communication and real selfless love, killing that hope is tough. It just is.

[Cliche]

Seen_it_all, this is the best post reply that I've read in a long long time! I hope that Cliche listens to you.

I'm listening, guys. I am. And everytime I've had that urge to call him today, I've come here and read some of this board, and it gives me the strength to keep my power.

 

Btw, I introduced him to my kids when I still thought he was truly separated and in the midst of a divorce. Believe me, if there is one thing I regret about this relationship, it is getting them involved. But they're young. In a few months, they probably won't remember him. That's what I'm hoping.