Gunny376 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 First off ~ I'm a retired United States Marine. That and a $1.10 plus tip will get me a cup of coffee down at the local Waffle House. I've done two tours on the drill field, and a couple of combat tours. I won't argue that I've got "attitude" etc. Personally, I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about me? Hell! I don't give a damn if the Sun doesn't shine! But, I've got to admitt? Since being out here in civilian la~la land, there's been a lot of friction with my "attitude" toward life and others. Now, I know I'm an *******?! But a loveable one! But an ******* none the less! My question is? How do I get along with the civies?
blind_otter Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 I think the best way to approach this is to stop thinking of people with the "me vs. them" mentality. Civilians are not different from you. I grew up in a military family, living on naval bases until my Dad retired. He was career military, and a 3 war veteran. If you have an attitude, people will respond to that. Why the attitude? What makes civilians so disgusting? My Dad never seemed to create a boundary between himself and the civilians. Maybe because of his civilian family, who knows.
Topper Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Hmm Maybe this is one of the reasons we need to bring back the draft. In your military career you would have been forced to put up with Jerk spec 4s like me. I might have worn OD green The Army owned my Butt , They didn't own my heart and mind. A great many of the NCOs That were in my unit were Marines . They would enlist in the Army to get more rank. Then after four years take that rank back to their beloved Marines. When it really came down to it when the poo hit the fan we did our job. Looking back with some maturity The Officers and NCOs I served under were for the most part good men. Now how to fit in with those who wouldn't know a spit shine from moonshine. One the next time someone screws up your order of eggs and bacon. Stop yelling drop and give me 20! The waitress has no idea what your talking about. McDonald's isn't the mess hall with the clown. Meals are not chow. Here is a thought wear a different color then green or for dress your Marine blues. and drop the sward. Now wait a few years and you can sit on park benches telling whoever that when you were in Uniform, Marines were men and not the Pansies they are today. ( My tongue is firmly in cheek) Gunny In all honesty I have no idea. I was only in for two years in a different time and place. Even after just two years getting back to the world was hard. I will admit I was just another pissed off Vietnam era Vet, angry at everyone. a Rebel without a clue. I had other Vets to hangout with I want to school with other Vets from the Marines, Army, Navy and Airforce. We hung out at the student union together. It helped. Give it some time Gunny.
quankanne Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 my dad was career Air Force, and mom said that he had a hard time adjusting to being around a family with young children – he thought he could pull rank on us, when really, we didn't see him as an authority figure! He figured out how to undermine us, then later, the grandkids: Lots and lots of candy helped us take him seriously :laugh: maybe if you start thinking as sweet, slow-minded relatives you make the effort to be kind to because it's the right way to respond, that might make the transition easier.
tanbark813 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 You don't seem any more of an a**hole or "edgy" or "tough" than a lot of other people who post on here. I think you think you have more friction than you really do. It's just posturing.
melodymatters Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 LOL, I've never been in any sort of armed services gunny, but MY former profession was Theatre director/writer/producer, talk about getting used to being in total control ! " I write your words, I tell you how to say them, and I tell you where and when you can move !" Couple this with me being a NY'er in the south and lets just say i HAVE heard the words "B*tch" and snob, a lot more frequently !! Poeple tend to like me better when I have a bit of a beer buzz ! Really, all I can think of is to try and smile more. I had an ex who claimed his " bone structure" wasn't built for smiling , but on the rare occasions he did, people responded to him much more warmly
Author Gunny376 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Wow~ Thanks for the responses. Its not that I'm barking orders and such at the poor waitress down at the IHOP ~ As it is, in just using common language and speech (me-thinks) curt, short, to the point, just the facts that people look at me with "You've got an attitude!" look ~ the old sideway glance and "What?" That and stating the obvious. And, yea, melodymatters most days I walk around with a dead serious look on my face ~ been working on the smiling thing ~ LOL. But, mentally ~ emotionally I all but apparently from the look on my face I'm ? Too many years at Parris Island I guess? The otherside of the problem? People seem waaaayyyyy too sensitive? I'm talking grown men as old as in their fifties and sixties? On the other hand young college students that I work with (males) that I've discused issues with said: "I'd just tell you to f**k off like I always do!" Mainly its with Supervisors and Leadmen that work in the plant where I work in the lab as a lab (rat) tech and QC. They keep saying I've got an attitude ~ and when it comes to QC I guess they're right. Either it is or it isn't, and I won't back down one bit, not one inch. They've tried to get bossy with me, and I just blow them off. Then they tell their boss that calls my boss ~ and tells them I've got an attitude. I told him that if and when I get an attitude ~ they'll know it and that it will probally involve some serious cussing! I think what's pissing them off ~ is they've got no authority over me. And, as QC I make them get off their butt and do their job by the books. Some of the other lab techs (mainly the college students) will take short cuts and such to approve an alloy ~ but to me that's slidding down the slippery slope, and there's no telling where you'll end up. Thanks for the replies!
ilmw Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Wow~ Thanks for the responses. Its not that I'm barking orders and such at the poor waitress down at the IHOP ~ As it is, in just using common language and speech (me-thinks) curt, short, to the point, just the facts that people look at me with "You've got an attitude!" look ~ the old sideway glance and "What?" That and stating the obvious. And, yea, melodymatters most days I walk around with a dead serious look on my face ~ been working on the smiling thing ~ LOL. But, mentally ~ emotionally I all but apparently from the look on my face I'm ? Too many years at Parris Island I guess? The otherside of the problem? People seem waaaayyyyy too sensitive? I'm talking grown men as old as in their fifties and sixties? On the other hand young college students that I work with (males) that I've discused issues with said: "I'd just tell you to f**k off like I always do!" Mainly its with Supervisors and Leadmen that work in the plant where I work in the lab as a lab (rat) tech and QC. They keep saying I've got an attitude ~ and when it comes to QC I guess they're right. Either it is or it isn't, and I won't back down one bit, not one inch. They've tried to get bossy with me, and I just blow them off. Then they tell their boss that calls my boss ~ and tells them I've got an attitude. I told him that if and when I get an attitude ~ they'll know it and that it will probally involve some serious cussing! I think what's pissing them off ~ is they've got no authority over me. And, as QC I make them get off their butt and do their job by the books. Some of the other lab techs (mainly the college students) will take short cuts and such to approve an alloy ~ but to me that's slidding down the slippery slope, and there's no telling where you'll end up. Thanks for the replies! Hey Gunns, I kinda know what you mean... Although I did not nearly the same amount of time in the service... it did have a profound effect on me... in how I have viewed others... Still working on that one... and I would have to say... a lot more understanding... and laid back when it comes to others.. As you know I joined the army at 16. So... I got indoctrinated into the military mind set pretty early on. When I got out in my early 20's and came back to Canada.. I had a hard time relating to people of my own age. I did not go to a Prom... I did not graduate highschool. I did not do the 'bush party thing" When people of my own age were getting high, drinking Molson Canadian.. in the back of their dads pick up trying to score with some other 17 yr old girl... I was sitting in a bush somewhere... covered in bracken and camcream... with a 7.62 SLR pointed forward... When I "got out"... I had a very hard time tolerating those who had seen no military service. They all seemed like slackers.... It also seemed like everyone I met... smoke marijuana... It has taken me years.. and a lot of self reflection... and as well seeing the worst and the best people can do to each other.. to finally see... people are people... we are all different... and... and it is a big and... My way is not necessarily the right way... (UNLESS IT IS BACKED UP BY POLICY AND PROCEDURE) :laugh: I have had to work on the smiling thing to... I raise my eyebrows.. and force the smile... Now it comes pretty natural... and apparently I have a nice smile... so that is encouraging. You are a doer Gunns... so this should not be a problem.... I also try not to be to serious... unless the situation calls for it... I give out traffic tickets to people now... and they now thank me... instead of Bit*ching and swearing.. My attitude change... has positive feedback.. It is hard to do... the attitude change...but... you can do it.
amerikajin Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Now how to fit in with those who wouldn't know a spit shine from moonshine. One the next time someone screws up your order of eggs and bacon. Stop yelling drop and give me 20! Actually, I'd pay good money to see Gunny yell "Drop and give me twenty"! Just like Sgt. Hartman.
dropdeadlegs Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Gunny, I wouldn't change a thing about you! People ARE too sensitive in many ways, why should YOU have to adjust to meet their comfort level"? I've never been in the military, nor married to a soldier, yet I think your "cut to the chase" "no nonsense" ways are perfect, not abrupt nor rude in any way. I am of the military "attitude" in many ways. I expect job performance, not glossing over of inconsistencies/errors. The world was a better place when people were paid based on performance instead of time on the job. I would fire most people I have worked with. I don't think I'm hard, I just think that every dollar should be earned, not taken as a given. Nowadays people seem to think that jobs are a right, not a privilege. I couldn't disagree more. I wish I had real advice to give, but I'm afraid that we are in the minority these days. On the up note, firing you would likely be impossible (not that you stated concern of that) as letting people go seems to be something that just doesn't happen. :love: For my Gunny!
Trialbyfire Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 It's far preferable to work with someone who's to the point and can handle direct comments. Such a novelty and a pleasure. Someone who doesn't act like an oversensitive PMSing diva with petty grievances. Don't change Gunny. There are too few of you Spartans out there!!
alphamale Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 My question is? How do I get along with the civies? how are we supposed to know? didn't the marines tell you what to do before your discharge? I can see the US armed svcs are doing a bang up job like usual.
Curmudgeon Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 My question is? How do I get along with the civies? ...they'll always be out of step, out of dress and late for chow! I was a Marine Corps brat and spent 12 years in the Army (Infantry officer/Ranger/Air Assault) with just over 20 months, 20 days (love them DD-214s) in combat zones. If only my eyes were still 20:20! Second time around I got smart and married another service brat (Air Force). My oldest son was a Navy SEAL and one of the first in and last out in Desert Storm. Guess we've covered all the services but the Coast Guard. It's in our blood but in time, we've all had to adjust to life amidst the civilian population. Keep in mind that there are many other ways to serve our country besides the "Service" and many have done so. You'll always be a Gunny but you'll also always be a member of society at large. GUNNY! Suck it up and deal with it! Semper Fi!
Curmudgeon Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 how are we supposed to know? didn't the marines tell you what to do before your discharge? I can see the US armed svcs are doing a bang up job like usual. Oh, that's right. You can't. After that remark of yours, you're not fit to shine our boots!
Author Gunny376 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 Thanks Curmudgeon,l Trialbyfire,and dropdeadlegs I don't have any intention of changing, but I do believe in adjusting for windage and such. I went into the Corps when I was 18 ~ got out for 96 days and begged the recruiter to let me back in! All these civilians screaming and shouting and no one in charge. When I went back in I wanted to re-enlist for six years ~ but the Marines would only let me re-enlist for three? WTF? The recruiting officer told me that it was because I was disloyal to the Corps? I got out ~ after my first hitch ~ LOL instead of re-enlisting right out. I've had a rough time adjusting to civilian life and to working in the civilian work place. I used to be a production supervisor at a synthetic millwork plant. The job I had before the one I've currently have, I worked third shift at a conveinence store. The way that I ended up working at a "7~11" was because the plant manager called me in one day and was questioning me about not having written anyone up, or firing. He told me that I wasn't doing my job, because I wasn't firing someone. I told him that there wasn't anyone to fire, because the crew that I had now was top-notch and that I had gotten rid of all the deadwood. He's start cussing. "F" this and MotherF that. I just sat there and listen ~ I'm all about getting called on the carpet and getting an azz chewing. I let him go on for about twenty minutes or so? Finally he asked me, "You got anyting you want to say?" I stood up walked up to his desk ~ very cool, calm and collected ~ and went Marine DI on his azz! "Have you lost your ever-loving mind! Who the **** do you think you're talking to!" He stampered back and said something to the fact that I couldn't talk to him that way? I told him: "Not only can I talk to you that way? I can whip your azz!" I gave him his key to the plant and walked out. That's when it hit me? My doing my twenty bought me my freedom! Went to another job interview ~ and I'm thinking things are going well? Finally I like him ~ he likes me, I'm interested ~ he's interested? The job seems a good fit. Then he asks me how much my military retirement check is each month? "Why do you need to know that?" I ask. "So I'll know how much to pay you?" A college degree in finance, 20 years in the Marine Corps ~ applied for a job at the new Hyuandi plant in Montgomery. I get a letter telling me that I'm not what they're looking for? Why? Becuase they asked the question "Describe an incidient when you're boss told you something to do and you didn't agree with it?" To which I responded, "Is it immoral, un-ethical, or illegal?" ~ "No" ~ "Then I don't have a problem with it? What's like got to do with damn thing? Curmudgeon ~ damn you I knew you were a kinderd soul! Had one of my "boys" that got out and after 9/11 wanted to go back in. He had an RE3 code because of weight control ~ so the Corps wouldn't initially take him back in ~ but he finally got serious about it all. Went Army Res. He went to a Ranger Indoc Program. Army Ranger told him, "If you find yourself in a foxhole with regular Army, shoot him ~ he'll get you killed! If you find yourself in a foxhold with a Marine cook ~ ask him which direction to shoot!" Retired now 11 years, but still love to hear from the "guys" They call me now and again and it always makes my day! Never made it past "Gunny" because of my attitude and mouth, but I've got 11 WO's, 5 LDO's ( sorry the other services don't have those ~Limited Duty Officers) and 8 commissioned officers that came up from the rank of private ~ that I showed the way. I will tell you all, what I told them? Believe in yourself! Believe in the possibilities!
Author Gunny376 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 Oh, that's right. You can't. After that remark of yours, you're not fit to shine our boots! I told Corpoal Cimmareli to do that once! And she did! She grabbed a piece of paper, a marker wrote the number 20, assumed the push-up position, jumped back up and gave it to me, at the position of attention Got to love Marines! Got to love women!
Curmudgeon Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 By the way, Gunny, I enlisted for Vietnam, and after making E-5 was "recruited" for OC S. The Army needed a whole bunch of butter bar cannon fodder in the 60s. Made it to 04, was passed-over for 05 [pissed off the wrong general while doing a tour at the Pentagon (talk about a war zone)] and got the hell out while young enough for a second, full career. Retiring exactly three years and four months from today (it will also be a Friday the 13th) then gonna be a good old soldier and just fade away!
Author Gunny376 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 By the way, Gunny, I enlisted for Vietnam, and after making E-5 was "recruited" for OC S. The Army needed a whole bunch of butter bar cannon fodder in the 60s. Made it to 04, was passed-over for 05 [pissed off the wrong general while doing a tour at the Pentagon (talk about a war zone)] and got the hell out while young enough for a second, full career. Retiring exactly three years and four months from today (it will also be a Friday the 13th) then gonna be a good old soldier and just fade away! I'm spoken with "career" Natiional Guardsmen from the Vietnam era, ~ I know the deal. During the Tet Offensive ~ the Marine Corps marched a bunch of Staff Sergeants and Gunny's down to the local parade deck and commissioned them as 2nd Lt's and shipped them off post hast to Vietnam. Life expectancy of a Marine 2nd Lt on the front lines (whereever the Hell that was) in Vietnam? About 2 days. I was in bootcamp when Saigon fell. Thanks for what you've done ~ some people just don't get it that freedom isn't free? "If your kid can read ~ thank their teacher! If they can read English ~ thank a military servicemember!"
quankanne Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 I stood up walked up to his desk ~ very cool, calm and collected ~ and went Marine DI on his azz! :lmao: oh, to have been a fly on the wall! listening to you talk – and I'm a 41-yoa AF brat who was domesticated at age one*– makes me understand my sibs a bit better. Because even for kids of servicemen there's a kind of non-tolerance attitude toward bullshxt ... both my sisters are management for huge corporations, and I imagine growing up having to toe the line helped form them much better than company training ever could. stand your ground gunny and don't let the stupid people get you down. It's their loss if they cannot appreciate the quality worker they've got available to them.
polywog Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Gunny, I'm a bleeding-heart liberal; always have been, it's in my blood. I grew up during the Vietnam war with a mother who was a staunch war protester and hanging out with the types who called those poor returning soldiers "baby killers". And yet, I have always, ALWAYS, admired anyone who was selfless and tough enough to serve in the military (I knew lots of cowards who found ways to avoid it, not always for political reasons, but to save their own a$$, tho they'd never admit it). I'm a big proponent of "civic duty" and "the common good". I've always admired the Marines (and what they represent) my whole life. Selfless duty and bravery! Not only that, I love your LS persona and truly appreciate and learn from your posts. You are who you are, and I think it's fabulous. I also think that too many people are "oversensitive" and out-of-touch with that mind set are not open-minded. They don't look at the bigger picture of who you are. So f**k'em. It's their loss that they don't see what you bring to the table, which IMHO is a lot of soul and humanity. I'm a fan , Gunny. Just be Gunny polywog
polywog Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 ....meant to point out that I have been a boss, and expect my employees to have a work ethic, because I certainly do. I expect that in everyone, and am dismayed by how many people think more of what they want or gain only for themselves. The flipside of this is that people with this ethic should be recognised and rewarded (honored), and often aren't (I am tempted at point to express my anger at how veterans are treated by our current Gov't...oops, I just did). Anyhow, just had to add this....
Curmudgeon Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 Back-and-forth between Vietnam and the Korean DMZ (during what they now call the "Second Korean War") from July 1967 through March 1969. I started in korea, learned to speak Hangul (Korean) so I was sent to Vietnam several times to operate with and advise ROK Army units there. Pee-Bringers, all of them!
Curmudgeon Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 Good for you, Pollywog. Believe it or not, I married a self-proclaimed "bleeding heart, hope-to-die, left-wing liberal Democrat" who was one of the original 60s and 70s bra-burning, feminist, war-protesting true hippies. She hated the war but loved and supported the troops, especially as her father was career Air Force. Whoda thunket that a Vietnam vet and former state narcotics agent (my former career) would marry a hippie midwife (she delivered hundreds of babies at home)? Now, like me, she's a decline-to-state, no political party affiliation, social moderate and fiscal conservative. Ya never know how you, other people or things are going to end up and turn out, do you? Guess we've ruined one another!
quankanne Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 a hippie midwife oh, now *there's* someone whose stories of being in the trenches I'd love to hear ... I've read a couple of books (one fiction, one nonfiction) about midwifery) and it's amazing to hear of the hostility toward their vocation by the professional "healers" ... how did she get into that area of expertise?
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