Trialbyfire Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 Since the men are women bashing, my turn to bash back. Historically, infidelity was forgiven, knowingly ignored, even empowered by wives. Not anymore. Women deserve the same level of respect and commitment to the marriage as men have always received in the past. Marriages are partnerships, not a one way feed and nurture the child situations.
RichC Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 You are missing the point. We are not female bashing. We are reacting to realities in our own lives and stats gathered by the Census Department. We know what the past was like and no one is advocating its return. We have to deal with the present realities though.
RichC Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 I am not being cynical, just realistic based on my observations and experiences.
lorr Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 I hear where you are coming from but the problem is that many times it is something that you can't plan for or foresee. I am going through a divorce right now and have heard from an amazing number of mostly men but some women whose husband/wife woke up one day and said "I don't want to be married anymore" and that was it. The more I look the more I am convinced that marriage is going to continue to decline in numbers and something else may take its place, possibly contractual relationships only good for the length of the contract but subject to renewal by both parties. I'm sorry that your going through a divorce but from reading your previous threads it seems that your wife wasn't exactly the right one for you anyway. Just because the marriage didn't work out doesn't mean that your destined for more doom and gloom. I believe that you are somewhat focusing on the negative aspect. Everyones relationship is different and people break up for various reasons that are sometimes beyond their control.Instead of convincing yourself and going by what people are telling you, its upto you as an individual to learn from this experience and to make the next relationship even more positive and fullfilling.
Aloros Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 I am not being cynical, just realistic based on my observations and experiences. I'm being realistic as well, based on my observations and experiences.
Woggle Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 Since the men are women bashing, my turn to bash back. Historically, infidelity was forgiven, knowingly ignored, even empowered by wives. Not anymore. Women deserve the same level of respect and commitment to the marriage as men have always received in the past. Marriages are partnerships, not a one way feed and nurture the child situations. And to many women this is justification for cheating and treating their men like crap even though the man has done nothing wrong at all and is a good husband. My wife says she is tired of paying for what other women did but myself and many other men are tired of being blamed for what other men did.
Trialbyfire Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 And to many women this is justification for cheating and treating their men like crap even though the man has done nothing wrong at all and is a good husband. My wife says she is tired of paying for what other women did but myself and many other men are tired of being blamed for what other men did. I've yet to blame you for anything. I do know what I want in life and it's an equal fully-invested partner. Whether I fold more sheets or he digs more rhodo beds, who cares.
Woggle Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 I've yet to blame you for anything. I do know what I want in life and it's an equal fully-invested partner. Whether I fold more sheets or he digs more rhodo beds, who cares. I am not saying you do but I was looking at another board where women were saying they had a right because it is pay back for what other men have done and it was making me sick. It is part of what sparked the fight between my wife and I.
Trialbyfire Posted April 9, 2007 Posted April 9, 2007 I am not saying you do but I was looking at another board where women were saying they had a right because it is pay back for what other men have done and it was making me sick. It is part of what sparked the fight between my wife and I. If it's a feminist board, no wonder. Steer clear of those boards. Consider me an equal-rightest with strong leftist tendencies. I'm guessing that there are a ton of women who believe in equality versus dominance. It sounds like your wife is one of them. Do you see how you're applying feminist views to your wife's needs for equality and trust?
Wakeupcall Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 I'm very liberal in a lot of ways, but also--at least as regards my life--very old-fashioned: When you say you are liberal in a lot of ways...what do you mean? We are in a society that has tried to dismantle most every absolute there has ever been. An old fashioned "way" or absolute is to be faithful and true as a friend. I cannot be in a friendship for what it brings to me first and foremost. This is where "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a pretty basic rule of relationships. If I love others without expecting something in return, things will work out in the long term. Did your mate walk out? It still doesn't have to be the end of the friendship. There is the rest of their life for them to see what they truly missed if you continue to love them regardless of how they have treated you. I've been married for almost 38 years...including some real highs and lows. We refused to use what we call the "D" word, if you know what I mean. That never has been an option. Yet, if one of the two entertain the thought for any length of time, they will find a way out. My thoughts are with you.
Author Zapbasket Posted April 10, 2007 Author Posted April 10, 2007 Wakeupcall--what I mean by "liberal" in this sense is that I accept and honor all the forms that love may take, beyond heterosexual union, marriage, etc. But what I reject is this idea that there is always someone better, and that relationships have a shelf-life and when things are really hard it must mean you're incompatible, etc. As I said to a good friend of mine recently who keeps hitting on me even while he's in a 12-year relationship with a wonderful woman who wants him to move in with her (the guy is 45 and dragging his feet), "Nothing is sexier than devotion and commitment." Even before my 5-year relationship (my first and what I'd hoped would be my only--because life-long--serious relationship), I sought emotional connection with sex or I wouldn't find the sex that great, but now, after 5 years of wonderful sex where (and sorry for being so explicit) at every orgasm I really felt my body exhale "I love yous"--like a soul-cleansing--and I felt safe to be and do anything in sex and loved doing everything under the sun to and for my partner, I just cannot imagine sex without devotion and love, or the glimmerings of a foundation of that. It's not the only thing I want in life but I want the bedrock of my life to be a deeply committed relationship that lasts until death; that is what will make me happiest; that--commitment and loyalty, given and received, in love and in friendship--is what makes life worth living. I feel sad that a lot of people--thank goodness not on this board!--seem to think that relationships are disposable. So, Wakeupcall...that's so inspiring that you've been married 38 years! Would you mind describing what got the two of you through the lows? What would you say are the key things that enabled your relationship to last? Did you ever have serious doubts that you were going to make it together at any point in your marriage? And lastly, did either of you ever feel like you might be "missing out" by staying committed to this one person, this one way of life? (I love hearing people talking about their marriages. Especially now, in the raw agony and heartache of my unwanted breakup; it's comforting. Every day after work I stand out in front of BabiesRUs and smoke a cigarette, mulling over what I need to develop in myself to ensure I can be a wonderful mother and partner, and imaging what the experience will feel like, and thinking how close I was; I'd thought my partner and I were going to marry soon and start planning a family.)
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