You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Impudent Oyster]

But what am I going to do? Demand that she act happy when I come home? Demand that she enjoy sex with me?

 

Um, please don't take this the wrong way but I'm sure she isn't happy that you're home nor does she enjoy sex with you...you don't exaclty sound like a guy who women WANT to snuggle up to.

 

Let's get this straight, you had two affairs and you're tired of the way your wife is treating you? Do you think that maybe she's just a tad resentful? Do you think she has a bit of unresolved anger and hurt? Maybe?

 

If you aren't willing to do some intense counseling then do your wife and yourself a favor and get a divorce, or at least get separated. It's a lot harder to do the hard work of repairing a marriage than it is to go out and screw someone else. Maybe you should just cut your losses and let yourself and your wife be free to be happy.

[Trialbyfire]

There's a point where it's not worth fighting for a marriage, if only one party is going to do it. In this situation, they've both checked out. No amount of therapy will fix a marriage with no willing effort from either party. Time to cut and run.

[Impudent Oyster]

. I'm sure she thinks he's suddenly ok with almost no sex now .. Nah. She knows, she just takes him for a patsy.

 

Baloney. I'm sure she's dying to have sex with a man she KNOWS loves her. I'm sure she wants nothing more than to have a loving husband and a great sex life, but men seem to be able to separate love from sex much more easily than woman, they can have sex without love. Most women can't.

[Impudent Oyster]

Yeah, that has been my problem. If I knew they would be OK, I'd proceed with confidence with divorce. I've been doing some research on that to get a better idea of what to expect.

 

The kids will be fine. Probably a lot better off than with parents who clearly have a lot of rancor for each other (well, I don't know about your wife, but you sound pretty angry).

[JustBreathe]

LadyJane - I don't come here alot and don't know anything about Lakeside other than what's on this thread.

 

Saving your marriage does take effort on the part of both spouses, that is so true. But just because she hasn't wanted to go to counseling, it doesn't mean she doesn't want to stay in her marriage and give it a try. She's still there, isn't she?

 

Some people don't think counseling helps. I can tell you from experience that in my marriage, marriage counseling did no good at all. Some people do better with individual counseling. Some people don't want any counseling whatsoever. (My husband and I did better with individual counselors). What I'm getting at is, everybody's road to recovery from the earth shaking trauma that an affair causes is not always the same.

 

If the wife is still there an they are friends, well, maybe that's all they can be for awhile until she deals with her insecurities the best way she can. No, she shouldn't abuse him or anything. But forgiveness isn't instant when you have been so betrayed (he had more than one affair), it takes a very long time.

 

It takes a full year just to stop reeling from the pain and confusion of it all.

 

I don't know much about Lakeside at all. But I do know what it feels like to find out your husband is cheating on you and has cheated with other women before.

[Ladyjane14]

 

Saving your marriage does take effort on the part of both spouses, that is so true. But just because she hasn't wanted to go to counseling, it doesn't mean she doesn't want to stay in her marriage and give it a try. She's still there, isn't she?

 

I think if she were willing to show him even a glimmer of interest in TRUE reconciliation, he wouldn't even consider leaving her. I think if she could give him some small glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel... he'd hang in there as long as it takes.

 

The SADDEST part of H2T's story, I think... is that he honestly loves his wife.

And all this bad behavior on his part has because he misses her being active in his life... and he doesn't cope with it very well.

 

He caved like a house of cards when she found out about his affair... because she cried. And because her tears made him feel the love and concern he hadn't been feeling. He was actually comforted at her reaction. It proved she still cared. Now, I'm not saying that she doesn't love him. But if she does, he needs to FEEL it. Not feeling it, is like not being loved at all.

 

You know, when you watch little children at play you'll occasionally observe one child bite another. Weirdly, it's often the child that does the biting who needs more comforting than the child who's bitten. WS's are coming from a weaker position. They've gotten their heads screwed on backward, and they've disappointed not only their spouse, but themselves as well. Once they get their sh*t together again, they often need quite a bit of reassurance.

 

All it would take to pull this thing back out of the ditch is for H2T's wife to get just a little bit involved in the marital recovery. Just one small gesture would get them started. But as long as he feels her manicurist gets more of her attention than he does... he's lacking the reassurance he NEEDS in order to keep him hanging in there.

[VinaAmez]

All it would take to pull this thing back out of the ditch is for H2T's wife to get just a little bit involved in the marital recovery. Just one small gesture would get them started. But as long as he feels her manicurist gets more of her attention than he does... he's lacking the reassurance he NEEDS in order to keep him hanging in there.

 

Good point!

[Sup]

H2T, I've not read every post here, but, I have to wonder as to why you let your wife and daughter go to Mardi Gras, or why they would want to go. I know you KNOW what Mardi Gras is, basically it's an outdoor, in public, sex party, people flaunting themselves, having wild sex with complete strangers, STD's going around to who knows who, women married or not getting knocked up by someone they don't know. It almost sounds like to me she's having the time of her life, and she doesn't care about you, or your needs, or about you remaining faithful. Do you have any evidence that she's been cheating on you, have you installed a keylogger on your computer? Any strange actions on her part, like new sexy underwear, perfume, exposing clothing? Protect yourself, contact a good lawyer, and move on if anything IS going on.

[Trialbyfire]

I think if she were willing to show him even a glimmer of interest in TRUE reconciliation, he wouldn't even consider leaving her. I think if she could give him some small glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel... he'd hang in there as long as it takes.

 

The SADDEST part of H2T's story, I think... is that he honestly loves his wife.

And all this bad behavior on his part has because he misses her being active in his life... and he doesn't cope with it very well.

 

He caved like a house of cards when she found out about his affair... because she cried. And because her tears made him feel the love and concern he hadn't been feeling. He was actually comforted at her reaction. It proved she still cared. Now, I'm not saying that she doesn't love him. But if she does, he needs to FEEL it. Not feeling it, is like not being loved at all.

 

You know, when you watch little children at play you'll occasionally observe one child bite another. Weirdly, it's often the child that does the biting who needs more comforting than the child who's bitten. WS's are coming from a weaker position. They've gotten their heads screwed on backward, and they've disappointed not only their spouse, but themselves as well. Once they get their sh*t together again, they often need quite a bit of reassurance.

 

All it would take to pull this thing back out of the ditch is for H2T's wife to get just a little bit involved in the marital recovery. Just one small gesture would get them started. But as long as he feels her manicurist gets more of her attention than he does... he's lacking the reassurance he NEEDS in order to keep him hanging in there.

While I respect your opinion LadyJane, he's no child. As an adult, we all have to own up to our actions and be responsible. He has cheated on her more than once, for whatever his reasons are. Perhaps he can be redeemed but I'm uncertain if she should have to pay the price for this and potentially live with someone who is so reliant on her for his happiness. He needs to look deeply into himself and make his own happiness first before he's capable of being a 50% partner in any committed relationship. Enrich, not drain.

[whichwayisup]

Everytime they have come close to calling it quits, (and yes if you go back and read his past threads it will show this) SHE is the one who jumps in saying "don't go, I love you, I'll try harder..." then, for a little while things are good, they reconnect - But for only so long...Until she retracts and starts to exclude him again.

 

The marriage doesn't have a chance in hell if she isn't going to meet him halfway. He cannot continue to be bashed for his mistakes and his choice in cheating on you. If she can't get past it with the help of MC and individual counselling, then they might as well end it now. To punish him forever is unfair. Sheeyot or get off the pot.

 

Neither of them are very happy right now. And I bet the kids are picking up on it too.

[Chapter2]

I honestly mean no disrespect to you LJ, but I really can't believe these words were typed from your fingers...did I read this right? "All this bad behavior on his part has (is) because he misses her being active in his life"...are you kidding me? His multiple permiscuity is due to missing his wife being active in his life? How on earth is that not blaming the BS, his WIFE, for his behavior?

 

Then you boldly state "all this would take to pull it out of the ditch is her trying..." Honestly, how do you know? Can I borrow your crystal ball? Do you truly believe you know both sides of the story?

 

I'm sorry, LJ, but there are far too many posts lately where you directly contradict yourself.

 

And all this bad behavior on his part has because he misses her being active in his life... and he doesn't cope with it very well.

[whichwayisup]

I think she's referring to well after D-Day.....How he is feeling and reacting now, not PRE affair.

[Chapter2]

Nice save. Yes, I'm sure I completely misunderstood. And don't you mean "pre affairs"...?

 

I think she's referring to well after D-Day.....How he is feeling and reacting now, not PRE affair.

[NoIDidn't]

Everytime they have come close to calling it quits, (and yes if you go back and read his past threads it will show this) SHE is the one who jumps in saying "don't go, I love you, I'll try harder..." then, for a little while things are good, they reconnect - But for only so long...Until she retracts and starts to exclude him again.

 

 

WWIU

I don't think you and I have been reading the same threads. H2T is always the one that backs off on what he says. I haven't seen her begging him for anything. What I have seen is her going about her business and ignoring their problems pretty much because he is afraid to lose his kids. He seems to always be the one hanging on because of "the kids".

 

H2T

What is this about her being afraid of "another outburst" from you? That is telling.

 

I think you should get a lawyer and start drawing up plans for a legal separation. Maybe complete the process to D, but first draw up the sep papers and see what happens.

 

A woman that doesn't want to have sex with a man isn't being sexually satisfied by that man and doesn't feel connected to that man. Maybe its a personal issue for her, but I doubt it if its that entirely (by itself, anyways). She was able to have sex with you just fine immediately after Dday. So maybe its your "presentation"?

 

I disagree with LJs advice (I can't believe it myself) about how long she should be stewing in anger. And I wonder why it is that MsPixie only talks about how important sex is to a man (as in, does she know what's important to a woman? - no offense, she just always harps on that like its the only thing going on in a M/R). There is something about H2T, though. I can't put my finger on it, but its unsettling. And I think this is what his W is reacting to.

 

I mean, a W that busies (sp?) herself with all of these activities does so because her H ISN'T helping to meet those needs for her. She begins to depend on those activities and not on her H. I speak from close proximity of one such M. The H had NUMEROUS A's and was always working. So the W took care of the family and developed important friendships and hobbies. Then, the H decided "I won't cheat anymore. I will be present for my family. I want to hang out with my W." But, the W was so used to him being gone (with his mistresses or work or church or other things that took him away from home), that she balked about his wanting her to stop her life and activities that she came to depend on JUST to be with him.

 

And she had sex with him too. Several times a day. As much as he wanted, but he complained that she never initiated it and didn't seem to like it. That's the problem when you get used to having a mistress. You get a partner that always ready and willing because she is trying to convince you that she is your soulmate and the better choice, blah, blah, blah. But you, are just loving the attention and actually having a woman WANT you. And instead of treating your W like you treat the OW to get all that passionate sex, you treat her like expendible garbage and wonder why you get what you get.....

 

Sorry about that (the above). I got a little carried away because the couple that I speak of is very near and dear to me. And they are planning to get D'd this year or the next. And I think he deserves it all regardless of how much I love him (the H in this).

 

H2T. You and your W have been through a lot. You obviously love her still and desire her. But you are so resentful of her. I don't think she loves you anymore. I don't even think she likes you. But a separation might be good for you (both of you, even your kids). Leave (as in separate, and possibly D) while you still love her and would be willing to give her a fair settlement and not argue too badly about co-parenting. Go to a good lawyer and a good family therapist to discuss your concerns about possibly D'ing and co-parenting. And then, let her know what you are up to. Let her know why. Make sure that you are certain about this so she knows that you are absolutely serious. Be ready for any possible outcome (response from her).

 

It sucks to experience this, so you have my sympathy.

[Scrivdog]

I see it didn't take long for the horseh*t to start. First of all I think it's a big mistake to divorce. It's not good for the kids. That's just what divorcing parents say to make themselves feel better. Kids don't give a rat's ass about their parents' sex lives. Nor should they.

 

But they do care to have them both under the same roof taking care of them, as long as they're not screaming at each other all the time or throwing dinner plates around.

 

While you get all sanctimonious and sentimental about his poor betrayed wife, you seem to conveniently forget that this married man was not getting much sex nor affection from her for years. I know that feeling because I've been right there myself as have plenty of other men you've run off this board. I know it comforts you to concoct stories about how he must have been a lousy husband.

 

But you do that because you don't like the possible reality that he's not actually a bad man at all. In fact I'm sure some of you are already cooling off the bedroom activities with your husband and you don't like what awaits you. (I just saw a thread here by a woman touting the benefits of weaponizing sex with their husbands) I suggest you pull your heads out of your asses and face reality before you find you're spending your 40's cheat-popping Xanax on your way to the cat store.

 

You fail to give him credit for hanging in that hell hole of a marriage in order to protect his kids. That's what I do and I'm sorry to hear you all value his role as a father as cheaply as you do. Most other men have and do bail out every day from marriages for way less crap than he has taken.

 

H2T, I PM'ed you.

[Scrivdog]

Too bad you don't like it, but LJ didn't make up the rules. She's just reporting them.

 

The facts are amazingly simple. You stop being a lover to your husband, and if the man is reasonably attractive, you may as well just hand him over to an OW in silver platter. But you do be a lover to him, and he's going nowhere.

 

I honestly mean no disrespect to you LJ, but I really can't believe these words were typed from your fingers...did I read this right? "All this bad behavior on his part has (is) because he misses her being active in his life"...are you kidding me? His multiple permiscuity is due to missing his wife being active in his life? How on earth is that not blaming the BS, his WIFE, for his behavior?

 

Then you boldly state "all this would take to pull it out of the ditch is her trying..." Honestly, how do you know? Can I borrow your crystal ball? Do you truly believe you know both sides of the story?

 

I'm sorry, LJ, but there are far too many posts lately where you directly contradict yourself.

[Ladyjane14]

...I disagree with LJs advice (I can't believe it myself) about how long she should be stewing in anger....

 

...I mean, a W that busies (sp?) herself with all of these activities does so because her H ISN'T helping to meet those needs for her. She begins to depend on those activities and not on her H. I speak from close proximity of one such M. The H had NUMEROUS A's and was always working. So the W took care of the family and developed important friendships and hobbies. Then, the H decided "I won't cheat anymore. I will be present for my family. I want to hang out with my W." But, the W was so used to him being gone (with his mistresses or work or church or other things that took him away from home), that she balked about his wanting her to stop her life and activities that she came to depend on JUST to be with him....

 

 

I do get your point, NID... and I agree with it to a large degree. But... (there's always a "but" isn't there )... my problem is with BS's who opt to continue on in the marriage, ostensibly offering forgiveness, and yet not following through. You can't forgive somebody and then hold a grudge. It's not right to choose to stay married and then withhold true partnership.

 

Yeah, it takes a good long while for healing to be complete... even with both partners working together. But if she's not even willing to get the process started... then NOTHING can ever change.

 

Frankly, I don't get the same vibe from H2T that you do. I see him as weak in his coping skills and needy for reassurance that he'll one day resume his place in his wife's heart, but I don't see him as a bad guy.

 

Sure, cheating pisses me off. Cheaters piss me off. Liars piss me off. But if God in Heaven offers redemption to all who heartily desire it, who am I to say otherwise. My vibe on H2T is that he does heartily desire it. And even believing that "coping" with his insecurity, his failure to BELIEVE in his wife's earnest love, is likely a factor in his current attitude... I have no way of rebutting his position on that. I can't promise this guy he's more than a paycheck and a lifestyle to her. So, if he needs to rattle her cage right up to (and even past) the point of divorce.... I'm gonna have to get behind him on that.

 

Marital recovery requires BOTH partners to engage. I don't see that he's asking for her to move into a state of complete recovery all at once. All he's consistently wanted from her is a start in that direction. The status quo wasn't working for him, so the status quo isn't going to work now. He wants a more emotionally intimate relationship with his partner than that. And I can't blame him... it's what most of the rest of us want with our own partners.

[NoIDidn't]

LJ

 

I agree with your most recent post. The previous posts weren't giving me that vibe. They had the "its her fault for not forgiving him" vibe. And I don't think that's right.

 

I am with you on the D talk. He should do it and not just to rattle her cage, but because he is serious. He has had it.

 

Its obvious that he wants an intimate connection with her, but I don't get the feeling that he is offering the same. The neediness factor is overwhelming, but that's probably just me and my perceptions.

 

I don't think she is ready to forgive the A, yet or at all. She probably still feels incredibly wronged and humiliated. The woman DID show up on her doorstep. I imagine at least ONE neighbor saw that. I know I saw (and heard the yelling of their teenage son) it when it happened to my neighbor.

 

And here, I think is where we agree. She has to be willing to move past that. If she wants to stay M'd to him, she has to. She may not be able to forgive, but she will have to ACCEPT what has happened. But I get the feeling that she is strong willed and stubborn. The type to cut off her nose, to spite her face (did I say that right? LOL) I get the impression from H2T that this is about so much more than sex - even though that is what he is complaining about. He wants to touch her and wants her to touch him.

 

But I don't think that she will give it, willingly. The picture he has painted of their M is that of a power struggle. He doesn't want her to work her "precious" instructor job or to hang out with her friends so much, but she does it anyway. She does what she wants, when she wants, and with whom she wants, according to H2T. Neither of them sounds like they have learned the art of the Compromise.

 

If you ask me, her behaviors match those of the W in the couple that I described. Both the H and the W were waiting for the youngest child to reach college. That happens this September. I think she is planning to spring a D on H2T, because I don't get the impression that she wants him anymore.

 

PS - H2T, I hate talking "about" you or your W on your thread. We might take it to PM to not change the subject too much.

[Glass]

It's not that I necessarily want to avoid conflict per se. My issue is that I would view any further attempts at affection for me as being the result of her bending to my will out of fear of another outburt from me.

 

While that probably makes sense for behavioral issues, I don't know that it does in the case of love. If I went postal because she tapped out our credit cards, or if she gambled all day, then I can see where this would be effective.

 

But what am I going to do? Demand that she act happy when I come home? Demand that she enjoy sex with me?

 

As to counseling, I think that will be effective only if she decides she wants to go on her own to resolve something she recognizes as a problem. But if she is coerced into going under threat of expulsion from the house, then I suspect that the sessions will be a waste of time.

 

So bottom line is that I agree that she may behave differently if I strong-arm her, I just don't think I want sex under duress. Sorry if I seem picky

 

Apology accepted. You do seem picky to me alot. The reason why you seem picky to me is because you say 1.) you want to be satisfied 2.) your wife is not satisfying you 3.) you're not going to tell her that she's not. It doesn't make sense to me. You said you tried to tell her; but how? How did you try to tell her? What did you say? If you just hinted at it, how do you expect her to read between the lines? How long has it been since Dday? If it's less than two years, how do you expect her to be intimate and loving when the affair is still fresh on her memory?

 

You said you don't want to tell her because you don't want her to intiate a change out of guilt. I'm not getting that part at all. What else can intiate a change in someone? She's going to feel guilty regardless because you're already blaming her for not changing, so she's going to blame herself for her part too.

 

Remember this- people can't read minds. Also you can't base what someone else should know, off of what YOU know. What I mean is, you can't say, "My wife should know I'm unhappy because I would know if she was unhappy." I don't know if I'm explaining this so you would understand it. You have to tell your W what's wrong with you. And obviously, you are not doing a good job of communicating your feelings if things are not changing if she's not getting it. You have given up on a woman who is giving you a second/third chance with the marriage even though you cheated on her. Don't you think she deserves alittle more perserverance on your part?

 

Your wife goes to work at a gym or somewhere right? Other BS have given the option of working-out as a way to relieve stress and get over the fact that the person they love cheated on them. Maybe it's not because she doesn't care about you. Maybe it's because she's still dealing with your past actions in a way she knows works.

[Hard2Think]

Glass,

 

Take it easy -! I told her many times already as I indicated in previous posts. I just said I wasn't going to tell her anymore - because after repeating the same thing so many times it does get ridiculoius. So this is hardly about asking that she read my mind.

[Hard2Think]

"PS - H2T, I hate talking "about" you or your W on your thread. We might take it to PM to not change the subject too much."

 

No, go ahead. Much of what is being said resembles me and my marriage so little that it doesn't feel like you're talking about me anyway

 

But that's okay - carry on -!

[Impudent Oyster]

You fail to give him credit for hanging in that hell hole of a marriage in order to protect his kids. .

 

Protect his kids from WHAT, exactly? Will they be in danger if their parents divorce?

 

You are one ANGRY dude. Scary too.

[Hard2Think]

Scrivdog,

 

That has definitely been my struggle. My resolve to leave melts when I see my son tying his shoelaces and asking me to come play frisbee with him. The idea that I'd have to deal with visitation kills me.

[Chapter2]

Wow....guess there is no need for LS now that you've made everything so clear. Wake up SD...plenty of men have amazing sex lives with their wives and still make the choice to cheat. You'll learn that there is more to a relationship than being a lover once you're out of the 5th grade.

 

Too bad you don't like it, but LJ didn't make up the rules. She's just reporting them.

 

The facts are amazingly simple. You stop being a lover to your husband, and if the man is reasonably attractive, you may as well just hand him over to an OW in silver platter. But you do be a lover to him, and he's going nowhere.

[Impudent Oyster]

Wife has the gall to work a part-time job and run around with the kids all day, leaving not enough time or attention for husband. Attention that is very easily gotten from desperate other women.

 

Perhaps some husbands are too needy? Maybe they don't want to compete with kids or (gasp) a part-time job? There are many women who work FULL-TIME, take care of 3 or 4 kids and who have happy marriages with SUPPORTIVE husbands. You aren't at all supportive of your wife's interests, her job, etc. How do you think that makes her feel? Don't you think she'd feel more loving if you appreciated everything she does instead of resenting that HER interests take away from YOU.

 

Is she supposed to live her life for you, forsaking anything that interests her or is hers alone?

 

Do you want a partner or a personal servant, dedicated to meeting your needs?

 

I get the feeling that you expect too much, and I'm not married to you. Forget about MC, get IC and figure out why you're so resentful of your wife having very normal, outside interests.

 

You taught her that she can't depend on you, that you have no problem going outside the marriage, so why would you expect her NOT to develop a life of her own? Depending on you is too risky, she learned that. She can't put all her eggs in your basket because you just might skip town with it like you did before. It's self-preservation, she HAS to develop her own interests and you are the one who made her realize it.