Do we really get what we want?

[empty906]

I have been thinking about my personal happiness and my 'right' to be happy with life and my marriage specifically. I am not happy in my M and there was OW involved but that part is being dealt with after much help here on LS. Thanks, guys!!!

 

I waver back and forth (so annoying) from wanting to leave and needing to stay. I would not be running to any OW arms, I would be alone if I left. With my wanting to leave, it isn't from anger with my W any more nor is it from the way she treats me. She treats me great, now, but I just still do not love her even though she does everything she can to be a pleasing W.

 

My wanting to leave is out simple unhappiness. I no longer can look her in the eyes. I no longer want to hold her hand. I no longer want to be her husband. BUT, we are married. There is no more fighting, no more selfishness on her part, no more controlling actions by her. The selfishness now seems to be all on my side. I appear to be the selfish one here and now I am the problem.

 

I posted this here in the OM/OW forum because I want this question to be the topic for the thread: Do we deserve to be happy? Are we given the permission to seek our own happiness at all costs? Is it all about me and my foreseen happiness?

 

Most of you here believe happiness is directly tied to our perspective. And I can see that. Honestly. But for the times when our perspectives can't create a happiness or contentment, what then? Can we forsake vows in search of this happiness?

 

It seems very selfish to do so, to leave a spouse and family because of that reason. And I think a lot of the excuses or reasons for our wanting to have the A is out of unhappiness. But that isn't a valid excuse, is it?

 

So back to the question: Do we deserve to be happy? Whatever the cost...

[Woggle]

You sound like a woman.

[Trialbyfire]

Here's my opinion, if I were your wife. I would help you pack your bags. There's no use holding someone who's not committed.

[woe_is_me]

Interesting line i heard on a comedy tv show today...

 

H was telling W he had an A because he didn't think she loved him..

 

W's response..."Whats love got to do with it ...we're married"

[Meaplus3]

I have been thinking about my personal happiness and my 'right' to be happy with life and my marriage specifically. I am not happy in my M and there was OW involved but that part is being dealt with after much help here on LS. Thanks, guys!!!

 

I waver back and forth (so annoying) from wanting to leave and needing to stay. I would not be running to any OW arms, I would be alone if I left. With my wanting to leave, it isn't from anger with my W any more nor is it from the way she treats me. She treats me great, now, but I just still do not love her even though she does everything she can to be a pleasing W.

 

My wanting to leave is out simple unhappiness. I no longer can look her in the eyes. I no longer want to hold her hand. I no longer want to be her husband. BUT, we are married. There is no more fighting, no more selfishness on her part, no more controlling actions by her. The selfishness now seems to be all on my side. I appear to be the selfish one here and now I am the problem.

 

I posted this here in the OM/OW forum because I want this question to be the topic for the thread: Do we deserve to be happy? Are we given the permission to seek our own happiness at all costs? Is it all about me and my foreseen happiness?

 

Most of you here believe happiness is directly tied to our perspective. And I can see that. Honestly. But for the times when our perspectives can't create a happiness or contentment, what then? Can we forsake vows in search of this happiness?

 

It seems very selfish to do so, to leave a spouse and family because of that reason. And I think a lot of the excuses or reasons for our wanting to have the A is out of unhappiness. But that isn't a valid excuse, is it?

 

So back to the question: Do we deserve to be happy? Whatever the cost...

 

Hi empty906, I can understand where you are coming from, it's a tough spot to be in. I can share something with you that my therapist shared with me. "Before you throw in the towel on your marriage, you need to be certain that you have looked at all possible way's of improving it." By doing this it will ensure that you don't have any regrets for leaving. I have been unhappy for awhile now, and I am at the point of trying to figure out way's to improve the marriage. Do you have a therapist? If not you might want to get one to help guide you with your decesion. Keep in mind that running to an OW will just confuse you more. Good luck.

 

AP:)

[cbl]

i am a firm believer that nothing is eternal. not marriage vows. not one's life. better pursue what you value the most before it's too late.

 

but, are you really unhappy being married to your wife? or, are you not happily married because you are not in love with your wife? will you be happy not being in love? will you be able to be happy being alone (take the OW factor out)? are you happy living with your children (if you have any) every day? are you happy living without them? are you happy spending more time at work, with friends, then to go home to your wife? or go home without her?

 

a bigger question is, what is happiness to you?

 

only when we are able to decide the value of one thing, can we decide how much we will give up in exchange of things that we value more.

[Ruby Tuesday]

Oh boy, if you think that putting all your happiness around one person is going to make you happy then you are in for a BIG SHOCK buddy. Your personal happiness depends on you.

 

I suggest going to a counsellor (IC and MC) and taking some anti-depressant pills for a little while until you learn how to communicate and open up and do something about it.

 

There is something wrong with you, something broken inside. You have disconnected from your family for many reasons other than your wife. It doesnt mean youre crazy or anything bad, and nobody has to know about it. Some people just need a little extra help and it is out there.

 

If you leave and refuse to change, to work on yourself, your marriage, then it will never get better, but then, I dunno, some people are happy being unhappy. They refuse to change. They blame others for their unhappiness. It gives them negative attention - but it's still getting attention, just the same.

 

If you leave things as they are, never acknowledging the problems you are having and working on them, then it will come back and kick you in the ass for it later.

[Guest]

This seems to not be about your marriage but about you and figuring out what you want and value. Talk to someone, figure out a way to reconnect with you. It could very well be that you are out of love with your wife, but there are many successful marriages where they love each other but are no longer in love. Maybe you are carrying the hurt from when she wasn't the perfect wife?

 

Just figure out what it is you want and what will really make you happy. If you feel that you no longer like the woman you are with, leave and let her find someone who really deserves her. But if the like and respect is there, why not try to save things before you throw in the towel.

[frannie]

Hm hello empty. Well what I think is this: do what you need to do, for whatever you feel is most important to you. Just be you

 

If you spend very much time trying to do 'the right thing' and wondering whether you have 'the right' to do something... you'll just end up the most unhappy person on the planet.

 

Of course I'm assuming I'm speaking to someone who doesn't think murder or child abuse is what makes them 'happy'... just general, run of the mill life experience.

 

What's so wrong about that?

 

Do what you need to do

[boshemia]

We do deserve to be happy, but happiness isn't something that just happens. Those of us who have left unhappy marriages and remarried only to find the same marriage in a different form know this firsthand.

 

The only thing the same in the equation was us... it wasn't the partner who needed to change, but us.

 

Do you know what makes you happy, if you were to find yourself totally alone tomorrow (no wife, and no girlfriend) what would you have to do to make yourself happy?

[HappyAtLast]

I would say no to the question "do we deserve to be happy at whatever cost" BUT, everyone deserves to be happy.

 

I come from a place different from most on this board, I divorced my wife many years ago and married my OW.

 

Looking back - what I did right:

- I did let my wife know many years prior to meeting my OW that I was unhappy in our marriage and that we needed to work on it (she refused)

- Upon nothing changing in our marriage, I told my wife that I would be leaving her once my son was of age

 

What I did wrong:

- Allowed myself to fall in love with another woman while still married to my wife.

 

What I am not sure was right or wrong:

- To make my marriage bearable for the years before it ended I accepted a job at a hospital in another state. I was gone from monday through thursday for years. To be fair to myself, my son and I spent quality time together during the days that I was home (he was a bit older by then) and he had an intact family with parents who while were not outwardly affectionate did get along just fine.

 

While my son grew up to be a happy and well-adjusted man with a family of his own, I really don't know the right answer as to whether I should have left sooner to pursue my own happiness.

 

I met my OW several months before my son went away to school. I left right after my son. Take note though that my marriage was long dead. I knew that I had done everything possible to make it work, I have no regrets there. Have you considered individual counseling to try to sort some of this out for yourself?

 

edited to add: regarding Boshemia's post, I did not at all find myself in the "same marriage in a different form". I have been happily married for the past forty years, so I guess those sentiments do not ring true for everyone.

[silktricks]

Do we deserve to be happy? Yes. At all cost? No.

 

Happiness, though, does come from within. You sound very very depressed, and the person who suggested IC was, in my opinion, right on. Change won't make you more unhappy unless you know that what you are changing has something to do with you being unhappy.

 

Work first on you. Figure out what the reality is before you just start changing things around in hopes of making your life better. Otherwise, you may wake up and REALLY want things back the way way they were. BUt it may be too late then.

[sapphire0903]

IMHO............You live once.

 

If I were the wife, I would want to know why you were not happy.

If you were not in love with me any longer,.......you cant recall the reasons and the feelings you had when you were in love with me, I would understand that with time, also comes change, and I would not want you with me any longer.

 

I feel each person has the right to be happy,...........that includes you.

[Babybird]

Like the others I think we deserve to be happy but not regardless of the cost.

 

Your posting has an unbelievably sad tone to it. Wow.

 

I guess the only suggestion I have, in addition to the others, is to ask your W if she is happy? If she is trying to be the perfect W, and you are still feeling the same(depressed, unhappy, miserable) that has to be horrible for her. She probably doesn't understand what she is doing wrong and should be told it isn't her. It's you.

 

You only live once and my firm opinion is life is too short to be unhappy. Don't stay in the marriage because you feel like you should. Stay in the marriage because you want to.

 

One thing that you should realize before you leave, if you do, is that being alone can be extremely lonely. I know that sounds silly. Be prepared to go through a phase where you feel completely alone and consider going back to the marriage just so you have someone there. For some reason misery seems to echo when there is no one there to distract your thoughts. Just something to consider.

[bonehead]

It seems very selfish to do so, to leave a spouse and family because of that reason.

 

This line bothers me ALOT.

 

I left my wife, but I DID NOT leave my family.

[empty906]

I like the mix of ideas you guys posted here and I appreciate the advice. And, yeah, I was really down when I posted that and it felt nice just venting, you know?

 

As for my W perspective, told her I wanted a D back in Sept of last year. She asked me if I would stay if she would change. Her greatest fear, she has told me several times, is that one day I was going to leave her. She and I had fought terribly for the past 10 years or so. We have been married 12. Many unkind words have been thrown back and forth and when I told my mother that I had told W I wanted a D she said everyone was surprised we had waited this long before D. I threw in my mother's comments just to help paint the picture from another viewpoint.

 

So W changed 180 degrees. She is like a different person. We withdrew from each other years ago but when she was faced with the reality of being on her own she became very scared and has been doing everything she can to make things happy here.

 

I struggle with the 'staying' part 1) for my son whom I love dearly and 2) because my wife has many medical problems and cannot make it without my really good insurance. Her job also doesn't pay her enough to be self-sufficient. I have asked her repeatedly to find a better paying job which can offer her the level of benefits she needs and she refuses.

 

This is where the selfishness on my part comes in. When I am not down about staying with her forever I can think clearly and see that my leaving would only be self serving and I am the only one it would benefit. My son said he wants us to stay together and his happiness is more important than mine. Shouldn't it be?

 

As for my attitude towards W, I am very kind and supportive as a husband should be. Honestly, I am. We do not fight anymore so that stress level in our home is very low, so nice! The truth is I simply do not love this woman but I 'pretend', I guess you would say, and play like things are OK.

 

It is a confusing period in my life right now and I will just have to be sure I make well thought out choices.

[Babybird]

I like the mix of ideas you guys posted here and I appreciate the advice. And, yeah, I was really down when I posted that and it felt nice just venting, you know?

 

As for my W perspective, told her I wanted a D back in Sept of last year. She asked me if I would stay if she would change. Her greatest fear, she has told me several times, is that one day I was going to leave her. She and I had fought terribly for the past 10 years or so. We have been married 12. Many unkind words have been thrown back and forth and when I told my mother that I had told W I wanted a D she said everyone was surprised we had waited this long before D. I threw in my mother's comments just to help paint the picture from another viewpoint.

 

So W changed 180 degrees. She is like a different person. We withdrew from each other years ago but when she was faced with the reality of being on her own she became very scared and has been doing everything she can to make things happy here.

 

I struggle with the 'staying' part 1) for my son whom I love dearly and 2) because my wife has many medical problems and cannot make it without my really good insurance. Her job also doesn't pay her enough to be self-sufficient. I have asked her repeatedly to find a better paying job which can offer her the level of benefits she needs and she refuses.

 

This is where the selfishness on my part comes in. When I am not down about staying with her forever I can think clearly and see that my leaving would only be self serving and I am the only one it would benefit. My son said he wants us to stay together and his happiness is more important than mine. Shouldn't it be?

 

As for my attitude towards W, I am very kind and supportive as a husband should be. Honestly, I am. We do not fight anymore so that stress level in our home is very low, so nice! The truth is I simply do not love this woman but I 'pretend', I guess you would say, and play like things are OK.

 

It is a confusing period in my life right now and I will just have to be sure I make well thought out choices.

 

I can totally understand the venting portion. I felt like there was no escape when I was married. Obligations, vows, a second failed marriage, 3 kids, blah, blah, blah. I finally couldn't take it anymore. Crying myself to sleep, feeling completely alone and miserable. Was that really what I wanted to be...for the sake of my children? No.

 

I can understand that you are concerned about her being able to make it on her own. Definitely because your son would be effected too BUT your happiness is equally as important as your sons. Don't ever forget that. So many say that they stay in the M for the welfare of the children.. that's all fine and dandy but what about your own mental health? It does matter and can eventually effect your child/ren. Your home sounds like its reasonably peaceful now. I guess I realized that even though I was a mother, I was a person too. I had interests and things that I wanted to do and the children were no excuse for not doing them. They are happy and healthy and I haven't seen any(ok any big)negative effects so far and its been almost 2 years.

 

So how long do you intend to stay for your son? I'm guessing he's in 4th or 5th grade. Thats a long time to be unhappy.

 

In all honesty how much does the OW have to do with this? I Know when you're in love with one person it can bring out a ton of other feelings about your spouse. But you didn't mention your feelings for OW either.

[Kenzo]

Empty-I have to say that it is refreshing to hear these words 'from the horses mouth' ...it seems when the OW woman says that the MM is staying for the kids, and he is not in love with his wife, they are being deluded, and lied to by MM. Your situation is not unlike the one the MM I am (was?) seeing, is in. The love is gone, but the thought of not seeing his kids everyday is the brick wall he hits when D comes up.

 

When the parents are "playing" nice, kids see right through it, I know how resillient they can be, your son will not stop loving you and you will continue to be a great Dad...

 

Happiness to a degree is a self-serving emotion, it's not as if you've haven't tried to re-kindle things with her and no amout of trying or forcing the situation will make the love return, it's not as if you are leaving her for an OW, you do deserve to find someone who makes you genuinely happy and your son can only benefit from seeing you in that light.

 

I think if there is a glimmer of love left in the M then you owe it to all of you to make it work, if there's not and you have to struggle to pretend for the sake of illusion, it's time to cut your losses.

[Jinxx]

I struggle with the 'staying' part 1) for my son whom I love dearly and 2) because my wife has many medical problems and cannot make it without my really good insurance. Her job also doesn't pay her enough to be self-sufficient. I have asked her repeatedly to find a better paying job which can offer her the level of benefits she needs and she refuses.

 

Have you considered filing legal separation? That way your wife still gets your benefits. Although hard on the kids, they do just fine and so will your son.

[PoshPrincess]

Empty-I have to say that it is refreshing to hear these words 'from the horses mouth' ...it seems when the OW woman says that the MM is staying for the kids, and he is not in love with his wife, they are being deluded, and lied to by MM. Your situation is not unlike the one the MM I am (was?) seeing, is in. The love is gone, but the thought of not seeing his kids everyday is the brick wall he hits when D comes up.

 

Reading this thread I was thinking along exactly the same lines as you, Kenzo. My now exMM was in exactly the same sitch. At the time we first met, him and his W were not getting on at all, he knew the M was dead, they rowed a lot, blah blah blah. After she found out about me and realised she could lose him forever she made every effort to change and be the person he wanted her to be (the person he fell in love with I imagine). As hard as he tried he couldn't get that feeling back. I suggested that they try MC (we had split by this time) but he thought it had gone beyond that. However, because things were what he called 'amicable' (ie they were no longer at each other's throats and could be civil to each other) he felt he was able to stay for the sake of his children because, as far as they were concerned, everything was now cool (no more arguments, etc).

 

When the parents are "playing" nice, kids see right through it, I know how resillient they can be, your son will not stop loving you and you will continue to be a great Dad...

 

I agree, especially once they get older. When children are young, of course they want their parents to stay together. They don't understand adult Rs and expect you to be a family whatever the cost. Empty, in the long run, if you stay together your son is likely to remember he grew up with (at least) one unhappy parent. I am sure he will hate to think that you stayed for his sake. My father did the same for years but the older I got the more I understood and the more I thought he should leave and be happy, and that my Mum deserved the same. Don't forget, your W also deserves better than to be with a man who no longer loves her, although I know there some women (and men) out there who are happy to put up with it, so long as they are 'looked after' financially.

 

Happiness to a degree is a self-serving emotion, it's not as if you've haven't tried to re-kindle things with her and no amout of trying or forcing the situation will make the love return, it's not as if you are leaving her for an OW, you do deserve to find someone who makes you genuinely happy and your son can only benefit from seeing you in that light.

 

The only thing I would suggest trying, as I did with my exMM, is counselling. Maybe try MC, if that doesn't work try IC, or maybe just the IC will be enough. It may be just that you have issues of your own you need to sort out. Perhaps, once the initial excitement has worn off, you would be just as miserable after a long period with someone else

 

I think if there is a glimmer of love left in the M then you owe it to all of you to make it work, if there's not and you have to struggle to pretend for the sake of illusion, it's time to cut your losses.

 

Couldn't agree more. I wasn't actually married to my ex-partner of 8 years and father of my child, but once I realised how unhappy I was I couldn't get out of that rut. I knew I didn't love him anymore, didn't want to end up like my Dad, still miserable 20 years on, so I cut my losses.

 

Everyone DOES deserve to be happy and unfortunately that sometimes does come at the cost of others' happiness. What will initially be happiness for you will no doubt be unhappiness for your W and son but believe me, they will get over it and in the long run you can all be more content. My ex-partner has now moved on into a new R, so have I, and although my son was only young when we split so doesn't remember, he seems perfectly content and well adjusted. He has two parents in his life, who although no longer together, are very happy. Luckily we are both mature enough to stay friends for his sake so the fact that there is no animosity makes it easier.

 

In the end, you have to do what you want to do. I promise you, your son will get over it. Just make sure you know what you're giving up and that you are 100% certain it's what you want.

[Virgo1982]

I would say no to the question "do we deserve to be happy at whatever cost" BUT, everyone deserves to be happy.

 

I come from a place different from most on this board, I divorced my wife many years ago and married my OW.

 

Looking back - what I did right:

- I did let my wife know many years prior to meeting my OW that I was unhappy in our marriage and that we needed to work on it (she refused)

- Upon nothing changing in our marriage, I told my wife that I would be leaving her once my son was of age

 

What I did wrong:

- Allowed myself to fall in love with another woman while still married to my wife.

 

What I am not sure was right or wrong:

- To make my marriage bearable for the years before it ended I accepted a job at a hospital in another state. I was gone from monday through thursday for years. To be fair to myself, my son and I spent quality time together during the days that I was home (he was a bit older by then) and he had an intact family with parents who while were not outwardly affectionate did get along just fine.

 

While my son grew up to be a happy and well-adjusted man with a family of his own, I really don't know the right answer as to whether I should have left sooner to pursue my own happiness.

 

I met my OW several months before my son went away to school. I left right after my son. Take note though that my marriage was long dead. I knew that I had done everything possible to make it work, I have no regrets there. Have you considered individual counseling to try to sort some of this out for yourself?

 

edited to add: regarding Boshemia's post, I did not at all find myself in the "same marriage in a different form". I have been happily married for the past forty years, so I guess those sentiments do not ring true for everyone.

 

I am glad there is someone here who has a fair and balanced view on the whole situation. So many people make accusations about OW/MM who have never been in the situation. I find your honesty refreshing. But what I found most intriguing is an important point that many people here overlook-Every situation is different. Yes, there is a trend, but some people tend to go on full attack-mode before they even have an understanding of what someone is actually trying to say. Kudos to you for pointing that out. I'm sure you weren't the first and you won't be the last, but it's definitely nice to see someone give a different spin on things.

[outofdarkness]

I have been thinking about my personal happiness and my 'right' to be happy with life and my marriage specifically. I am not happy in my M and there was OW involved but that part is being dealt with after much help here on LS. Thanks, guys!!!

 

I waver back and forth (so annoying) from wanting to leave and needing to stay. I would not be running to any OW arms, I would be alone if I left. With my wanting to leave, it isn't from anger with my W any more nor is it from the way she treats me. She treats me great, now, but I just still do not love her even though she does everything she can to be a pleasing W.

 

My wanting to leave is out simple unhappiness. I no longer can look her in the eyes. I no longer want to hold her hand. I no longer want to be her husband. BUT, we are married. There is no more fighting, no more selfishness on her part, no more controlling actions by her. The selfishness now seems to be all on my side. I appear to be the selfish one here and now I am the problem.

 

I posted this here in the OM/OW forum because I want this question to be the topic for the thread: Do we deserve to be happy? Are we given the permission to seek our own happiness at all costs? Is it all about me and my foreseen happiness?

 

Most of you here believe happiness is directly tied to our perspective. And I can see that. Honestly. But for the times when our perspectives can't create a happiness or contentment, what then? Can we forsake vows in search of this happiness?

 

It seems very selfish to do so, to leave a spouse and family because of that reason. And I think a lot of the excuses or reasons for our wanting to have the A is out of unhappiness. But that isn't a valid excuse, is it?

 

So back to the question: Do we deserve to be happy? Whatever the cost...

If it were me, and I knew for sure that my H didn't love me, I would not want him to stay w/ me. In fact, after finding out that he cheated for 10 years, the first thing I said was that I didn't want to be w/ someone who did not want to be with me. I wouldn't want my H to stay w/ me b/c he feels sorry for me, etc..I DO wish that he had been honest w/ me years ago so that I had the choice about whether or not to move on and begin anew w/ someone who really loved me...This is over and done, and I am committed to trying to make the M work, but as I said, if I found out he was very unhappy w/ me and didn't love me, I would not want him to stay...I would make it as easy as possible on him to leave, ie..seeing the kids,etc...As far as her medical problems, you could pay her premiums if you really want to help and she has trouble...JMO...

[puddleofmud]

Perhaps you should take some time to weigh whether or not the affair has scewed your perception of "happiness" as in if passion is all you seek.

As well find some independent counseling.

At least, perhaps a legal trial separation so that you may get your thoughts better in order?

BUT, if you are certain you can't be the husband your wife deserves; then let her go so she can find happiness and no longer depend on a ruse.

And if so, please do support her and your children via every means possible through this.

Best wishes to you!

[frannie]

This is where the selfishness on my part comes in. When I am not down about staying with her forever I can think clearly and see that my leaving would only be self serving and I am the only one it would benefit. My son said he wants us to stay together and his happiness is more important than mine. Shouldn't it be?

 

Well I've read plenty of statements from people who grew up with parents who stayed together 'for them' wishing that those same parents had never done such a thing. What a guilt trip... my Dad had a needlessly miserable life just so I could be happy.

 

What do you want?

 

You sound like an even worse case scenario than my MM (and that's not to knock you at all..!)... stay for the children and live a half life, and what's more condemn his own W to something less than a satisfying life because his heart is not in it. Oh, and this is all supposed to be 'the right thing'?

 

Now... are you waiting for someone to hand you the right words that will make you less 'selfish' for doing something life-affirming..? Just looking at your post here I see you've picked up on a few reasons why (you tell yourself) you can't possibly do what is right for you. One, your wife refuses to sort her own life out. Ok, so that's your job, then. Two, your son, who knows nothing of the world yet, says he'd like his parents to stay together... of course he would now... but when he gets older, how's he going to feel..?

[frannie]

... if you are certain you can't be the husband your wife deserves; then let her go so she can find happiness and no longer depend on a ruse.

 

He told her he was through with it and she was the one who didn't want him to go. It's not so much a question of 'letting her go' as why she won't take 'I don't love you any longer' for an answer (sorry, empty, my wording of your situation but I've read your posts from the beginning).