GreenEyedLady Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 WHOA! I don't understand the hostility at all...Why aren't people allowed to be happy? HAL: Congratulations! 40 years is a long time to be married and that you are still so into her is wonderful...
Chapter2 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 HN, I honestly don't mean any disrespect but I don't "see"... There is no difference in saying "cheaters belong together" and "once a cheater always a cheater"... he lives in his marriage...I certainly don't. Also, we all use acronyms when we post here so calling him out for using LOL seems strange to me. I'm in my 40's and I use LOL just to try to show people feeling in my instant messaging with friends. Guess that makes me a big dork. I don't defend HAL's actions in his previous marriage. I do believe infidelity is wrong but I take issue with saying that cheaters belong together and that they are pros at lying. Couldn't the very same be said for your husband? He was certainly very good at lying for a time. He made the choice to stay because he loves you which is great. Does that mean you are in denial living in a fairtale marriage? That is for no one to decide but you and your husband. AND even if you were...its YOUR marriage... not anyone else's. Don't mean to call you out, I just simply don't "see everyone" or that this "proves any point". See everyone, this proves my point. Cheaters belong together. They will never really know if they have been lied to or not because they are both pros at it. They live in blissful denial that they have a fairytale marriage. Even if it did start as deceit. But who cares about that now they are happy together and all that matters to cheaters is their happiness.
puddleofmud Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 There is a great deal of talk about "love" as in if he/she really loved me they would do this or that....? I think that these situations may have little to do with romantic love but more about the matured nature of love which contains loyalty and respect. It is too easy to fall romantically in "love". But should a marriage continue to contain a strong aspect of loyalty--then this would probably take precedent. It would seem that one would value the R which contains an history of and is grounded in intimate loyalty rather than one which is new or temporary. When looking at male freindships in general, what aspect do they value most? It is certainly not talking about feeling and such! But rather more about steadfast and unquestionable LONG-held loyalty. I think this also sways somewhat the to the nature of a man who may not leave "for the children"--it may not just be about the children but more about the intimate loyal nature towards the familiar family; it's history and day to day nature as a whole and not about JUST about the spouse or OP. No doubt so many seek some excitement, but as to the nature of why men may stay--I would think that is perhaps about what men value and seek: their comfort zone, where there is steadfast dependability, where starting "over" from scratch may not be as appealing, if not down right terrifying!
Chapter2 Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 You've made some very valid points POM...there is so, so much wrapped up in why people choose the relationships they do... it would be great if we could boil it all down to a list of black and white but that just isn't possible. There is a great deal of talk about "love" as in if he/she really loved me they would do this or that....? I think that these situations may have little to do with romantic love but more about the matured nature of love which contains loyalty and respect. It is too easy to fall romantically in "love". But should a marriage continue to contain a strong aspect of loyalty--then this would probably take precedent. It would seem that one would value the R which contains an history of and is grounded in intimate loyalty rather than one which is new or temporary. When looking at male freindships in general, what aspect do they value most? It is certainly not talking about feeling and such! But rather more about steadfast and unquestionable LONG-held loyalty. I think this also sways somewhat the to the nature of a man who may not leave "for the children"--it may not just be about the children but more about the intimate loyal nature towards the familiar family; it's history and day to day nature as a whole and not about JUST about the spouse or OP. No doubt so many seek some excitement, but as to the nature of why men may stay--I would think that is perhaps about what men value and seek: their comfort zone, where there is steadfast dependability, where starting "over" from scratch may not be as appealing, if not down right terrifying!
Author PoshPrincess Posted April 5, 2007 Author Posted April 5, 2007 I think that many MM say that they are unhappy because they miss the excitement of the relationship when it's new. They find the fix in another woman and think that it's real. It isn't until their marriage is at risk that they realize they still love their wife and see how much the love has matured and they stay and do everything they can to prove their love to their wife. I have to say that as much as I disagree with some of your points on this thread HereNow I think what you're saying here is very valid. There was also a post not to long ago where someone said that the MM doesn't realize how much his wife loves him until she finds out about an affair. I totally agree. I think that may have been the case with my MMs wife. She found out about us after a few months and to begin with (quite rightly) she gave him a hard time. He still carried on seeing me for a time (she wasn't aware of this) but I think once things started to blow over she realised what she had to lose and fought for him by showing how much she really loved him. That must have worked as they are now working at rebuilding their relationship. They'd been together for 19 years (since she was 19 and he was 21) and I suppose things had become 'routine' for them. I can't speak from experience but I guess some people subconsciously stop making an effort after they have been together for that amount of time (and I am including him in that, of course, not just his W). Their lives are so wrapped up in their children that they forget to concentrate on each other. His W didn't work for a long time (even though the kids were in their teens) but got herself a full-time job which I am assuming gave her more confidence and helped her regain her identity. Or it's just that MM fool around because they can. MM say what they need to get what they want and still keep what they have. Definitely true in SOME cases, particularly when they are in a PA. There are a lot of gullible women around (myself included) who believe the BS or just put up with things whatever the score.
Ripples Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 HappyAtLast, I think it's great you're posting on this forum. It's good to get a MM's point of view. I have a question, apologies if it's been posted before and I've missed it; was your OW (now Wife) an exit strategy for you? By that I mean were you unhappy in your first marriage and looking for a reason to leave it that wouldn't leave you on your own without a significant other? Many thanks!
Impudent Oyster Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I say married men should leave the marriage if they are unhappy, especially if there's an ow in the picture. Be a MAN & leave. Give your wife a chance at happiness. And the children, they will adjust. Agree 100%
HappyAtLast Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 HappyAtLast, I think it's great you're posting on this forum. It's good to get a MM's point of view. I have a question, apologies if it's been posted before and I've missed it; was your OW (now Wife) an exit strategy for you? By that I mean were you unhappy in your first marriage and looking for a reason to leave it that wouldn't leave you on your own without a significant other? Many thanks! Ripple - Interesting question, I think. About five years into my first marriage things began to go badly. My then-wife was not at all interested in trying to make things better. I tried for a couple of years but I became as guilty as she at putting everything else in front of our marriage. I did tell her that as soon as my son was old enough, that I would be leaving. I suggested that she go back to school, or begin to do whatever she felt necessary to prepare herself for life on her own. She chose not to do that (she told me later that she really thought that I would never leave her). Through those years I did not allow myself to become involved with anyone else (tempting though it was). I met my OW about eight months prior to my son going to college. I did not get emotionally involved with her until about six months after meeting her. So yes, I guess in some ways, she was an exit affair, as I allowed myself to "let her in" so to speak.
Author PoshPrincess Posted April 5, 2007 Author Posted April 5, 2007 I agree with Ripples. It's great to hear things from an MMs point of view. HAL, thanks for being so honest. It's good to see that some men DO have the courage of their convictions! You've proved to everyone that not all As end in disaster for the MP/OP and that not all MMs/MWs who have As outside their M are complete faithless b***ards! Some people are with the wrong person, or they simply outgrow each other. This happens in same sex friendships so why not in romantic Rs too? I think that's life.
Izzar Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 This thread's title could also read "REASONS FOR STAYING / EXCUSES FOR NOT LEAVING"
Trialbyfire Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 While people may want to muddle everything with grey area discussion, if you distill it down to the core essence, if a MM does not leave his marriage or does not remain with 100% commitment, he continues to control his betrayed wife. If she has no knowledge, she has no recourse. Perhaps that's what makes me so angry with MM who straddle the fence. I perceive only selfishness in his attempt to control his environment to solely meet his needs, kids or not.
Freedom Now Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Agreed. It is the MM who DON'T make the choice that are scummy, not the ones that DO. Either you stay in your marriage and work like a dog to make it work and never, ever cheat again, or GET OUT. He is doing NO ONE any favors by perpetuating a triangle. EVERYONE gets hurt. HAL: I am happy for you. You chose to live an authentic life and obviously, it was the right decision for you. Peace to you. FN
stillafool Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I don't believe in cheating when you are married. But, from most of the posts on LS, people seem to think to fall in love romantically and with passion is an easy thing and it is not. Yes, your so called "real love" in a marriage involves loyalty, kids, mortgages, familiarity, etc. As far as I'm concerned you can also have this with your best friend when sex isn't involved. Passionate love is something that can't be bought, sold or immitated. It really is priceless. I do suspect that most men or people stay in a unhappy marriage out of fear of starting over and for financial reasons. If those fears were removed I wonder how many marriages would fall.
Trialbyfire Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I don't believe in cheating when you are married. But, from most of the posts on LS, people seem to think to fall in love romantically and with passion is an easy thing and it is not. Yes, your so called "real love" in a marriage involves loyalty, kids, mortgages, familiarity, etc. As far as I'm concerned you can also have this with your best friend when sex isn't involved. Passionate love is something that can't be bought, sold or immitated. It really is priceless. I do suspect that most men or people stay in a unhappy marriage out of fear of starting over and for financial reasons. If those fears were removed I wonder how many marriages would fall. So, this begs the opposite question. How long does passionate love last? Look to your average marriage for the answers.
stillafool Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Well that depends on the couple. My grandparents were passionate about each other and holding hands and kissing well into their 90's. Some couples marry without ever feeling passionate love as they marry for reasons such as compatibility, financial, etc. and their marriages last forever also. I was in passionate love with my husband when we met 14 years ago and still I want to tear his clothes off when he walks through the door at night. So for me it has lasted 14 years and we have been married for 9.
sadbuttrue Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Well that depends on the couple. My grandparents were passionate about each other and holding hands and kissing well into their 90's. Some couples marry without ever feeling passionate love as they marry for reasons such as compatibility, financial, etc. and their marriages last forever also. I was in passionate love with my husband when we met 14 years ago and still I want to tear his clothes off when he walks through the door at night. So for me it has lasted 14 years and we have been married for 9. i wish i had a man that came home to me everynight that i could rip clothes off of
Trialbyfire Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 You have to admit that continuous passionate relationships are not the norm. Committed marriages are more so the average. I'm not certain you can take marriage apart into separate components, drop one facet and say I wonder what would happen. Marriage isn't only the emotional side, it's a legal, binding agreement between two individuals for the co-mingling of future assets. From a practical perspective, the fidelity portion is to ensure that there is no question of external influences on the progeny and to ensure that neither partner brings STDs of any form to the union.
Freedom Now Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Well that depends on the couple. My grandparents were passionate about each other and holding hands and kissing well into their 90's. Some couples marry without ever feeling passionate love as they marry for reasons such as compatibility, financial, etc. and their marriages last forever also. I was in passionate love with my husband when we met 14 years ago and still I want to tear his clothes off when he walks through the door at night. So for me it has lasted 14 years and we have been married for 9. Good for you and your grandparents! That is what I want!
Ruby Tuesday Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 This thread's title could also read "REASONS FOR STAYING / EXCUSES FOR NOT LEAVING" Right on!
Guest Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 HappyAtLast, thank you for your posts! I suggested that she go back to school, or begin to do whatever she felt necessary to prepare herself for life on her own. She chose not to do that. So what happened when you actually divorced her? Did you have a tough time to get the divorce through? Big financial loss? Congratulations for your long, happy marriage! Perhaps that's why you've lived so long
Ripples Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Ripple - Interesting question, I think. About five years into my first marriage things began to go badly. My then-wife was not at all interested in trying to make things better. I tried for a couple of years but I became as guilty as she at putting everything else in front of our marriage. I did tell her that as soon as my son was old enough, that I would be leaving. I suggested that she go back to school, or begin to do whatever she felt necessary to prepare herself for life on her own. She chose not to do that (she told me later that she really thought that I would never leave her). Through those years I did not allow myself to become involved with anyone else (tempting though it was). I met my OW about eight months prior to my son going to college. I did not get emotionally involved with her until about six months after meeting her. So yes, I guess in some ways, she was an exit affair, as I allowed myself to "let her in" so to speak. Thanks HAL. So, would you feel it's fair to say that you wouldn't have left your wife if there were no other woman to go to?
pelagicsands Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 You have to admit that continuous passionate relationships are not the norm. Committed marriages are more so the average. I'm not certain you can take marriage apart into separate components, drop one facet and say I wonder what would happen. Marriage isn't only the emotional side, it's a legal, binding agreement between two individuals for the co-mingling of future assets. From a practical perspective, the fidelity portion is to ensure that there is no question of external influences on the progeny and to ensure that neither partner brings STDs of any form to the union. I agree with this.
HappyAtLast Posted April 6, 2007 Posted April 6, 2007 Thanks HAL. So, would you feel it's fair to say that you wouldn't have left your wife if there were no other woman to go to? No - I absolutely would have left my wife. I did my duty to my son, provided him with a full-time father and a relatively happy and peaceful homelife. Although, being honest, it was certainly a lot nicer to leave and have someone to be with, but.... I would definitely not have stayed married to my XW.
Tomcat33 Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 HAL - just wanted to say that I'm glad to read about happy endings as yours, no matter what the nay sayers would condemn as people who do not deserve to be happy. And good for you for sticking it out and contnue posting not letting the hate scare you way. I read the first two pages of this thread and just had to jump in to comment. There is just so much hatred on here from people who end up intimidating those posters who in their eyes are not deserving of happiness because they are "sinners". These same people who post nothing but attacks and hate towards stories that they don't agree with are making others pay for what their own spouces, OP, CS, did to them. That hate should reservered for their partners who hurt them NOT displayed onto strangers, people who are willing to share their stories to help us ALL gain some insight into boths sides of these types of situations. What is the point of hurling hateful comments at those who have absolutely NOTHING to do with our personal situations? Kick boxing is a great ANGER release, some of you haters should try that and then come and post. As per the people who met under the cirucmstance of cheating, who made a decision and stuck to it and became happy I salute you! NO one should stay in a relationship that is not good for them, marriage or no marriage, a relationship that is loveless that is more work than it is pleasure that is completely and utterly unfulfilling. Those who make a decision, be it save the marriage and work hard at that, or get out to be with the OM,OW are far more worthy of respect than those who eternally flip-flop back and forth selfishly destroying everyone involved. So HAL good for you for making a decision following your heart and finding happiness. That is what life is about, not "sacrifice" and indecisiveness due to fear. And you know even the cowards have a place on this board to post freely and we should listen to their insights rather than try to chase them away because we wish to project our own issues and failures on to them. THEY didn't cheat, leave, lie etc to us OUR PARTNERS DID. I wih I could read one thread where we are all adults exchanging views, rather than hurt children throwing punches.
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