lorr Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Yes I agree that he's being a coward and using the staying with the kids excuse. But you have to remember that his wife is fully aware of the situation ,and in some ways she's being a doormat for staying with him when she should get the strength to move on. Which person in their right mind would stay in a marriage through thick and thin when the OP doesn't have any feelings for them whatsoever? He's clearly moved on(which I think he should do in a decent and proper way, and she also needs to wise up and do the same). I'm getting sick to death of the various excuses used to justify staying in a cheating relationship. If its not financial its the kids, if its not the kids its how long they've been together , if its not that its something else.
Trialbyfire Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Yes I agree that he's being a coward and using the staying with the kids excuse. But you have to remember that his wife is fully aware of the situation ,and in some ways she's being a doormat for staying with him when she should get the strength to move on. Which person in their right mind would stay in a marriage through thick and thin when the OP doesn't have any feelings for them whatsoever? He's clearly moved on(which I think he should do in a decent and proper way, and she also needs to wise up and do the same). lorr, she may be staying because she's got some hope of reconciliation, he's blackmailing her emotionally with the thought of losing her child(ren) or he's told her that it will be a big financial mess through a lawsuit. He mentioned that she had a job but due to vagueness, the impression I'm getting is that she would be in dire straights without his financial support. This is a scary thought if you have child(ren) relying on you.
serial muse Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Which person in their right mind would stay in a marriage through thick and thin when the OP doesn't have any feelings for them whatsoever? He's clearly moved on(which I think he should do in a decent and proper way, and she also needs to wise up and do the same). Well, YSM's story about this has been a bit different, though. From what I recall, she says that there was a D-Day, so his wife became aware of the affair. However, since then, as I recall, the wife has been under the impression that the affair has not continued, although she also suspects he's not fully invested in the marriage. "Suspects" being the operative word. She doesn't "know" anything for sure. Basically, he's not being nearly as honest with his wife as he's pretending to be. Many, many times you'll hear a MM say that they've told their spouse all about the other person, and they've been open about their feelings. But it isn't true - there's all kinds of half-truths, and outright lies, and gaslighting, and everything else going on to confuse the issue. I doubt his wife knows it's really over. YSM has posted several threads, in the past, about how his wife has asked him whether he still loves the OW, and he doesn't answer. She'll persist with, "you do, don't you?" or something like that. But he doesn't say yes. YSM takes this to mean, however, that she should just get with the program already; why would you stay with a guy who you think is into someone else? To me, however, all it says is that there's still plenty of confusion and lying going on in this triangle. Openingday has a lot to answer for. His responses have been clear as mud.
lorr Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 lorr, she may be staying because she's got some hope of reconciliation, he's blackmailing her emotionally with the thought of losing her child(ren) or he's told her that it will be a big financial mess through a lawsuit. He mentioned that she had a job but due to vagueness, the impression I'm getting is that she would be in dire straights without his financial support. This is a scary thought if you have child(ren) relying on you. Sorry but he clearly states that his wife KNOWS about the affair and chooses to IGNORE it. He also says that he does not love her anymore and is staying for the kids. As I've said I don't condone how he's gone about things, but she also needs to wake up and stop living in fantasy land if she thinks he's going to come running back to her. Some women whether married or not need to get their finances together, so they won't be confronted with this dilemma.
VinaAmez Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Well...we try to offer our honest opinions in a respectful way, but sometimes, when dealing w/ a heated topic like A's...That's just too hard and painful for too many here. I don't understand your need to come on a public forum and declare you love for your OW and defend her. Against whom??? IMO, if you see her upset, it's most likely b/c we DO give our honest OPs and it can hurt and really hit home and push buttons. An A is just that an Affair! No matter what spin you put on it, how many excuses you give, how often you declare your love for the OW, etc...it will always be a fact that you cheated on your W. You stood somewhere, a church mabey, and exchanged vows w/ your W...IMO, you at least could have showed her to respect and compassion to tell her of the A so that she had the choice of whether or not to stay from the get go. I said before, if you wanted out and the M was bad when the A started, why didn't you just leave and THEN have the R? I am very interested to know how your R with your OW goes after you have finally left your W. IMO, part of the appeal of an A is that it is secretive...and it's sort of like being a teen again w/ the butterflies, etc...I have heard some success stories on here, but more often, I have heard stories of heartbreak when the MM leaves his W to be w/ the OW...It changes the whole dynamic... Lastly, if you want to come here and post, then I think you need to expect to be "flamed" by some...It's just part of the whole deal...Don't feel like you need to defend your OW here...I would save that for the people that you love, as you will have some explaining to do whenever you do decided to leave. I can think of a zillion other things to add, but I am not a very outspoken poster most of the time...I wish you both luck...I think you will need it... Great post!
Trialbyfire Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Sorry but he clearly states that his wife KNOWS about the affair and chooses to IGNORE it. He also says that he does not love her anymore and is staying for the kids. As I've said I don't condone how he's gone about things, but she also needs to wake up and stop living in fantasy land if she thinks he's going to come running back to her. Some women whether married or not need to get their finances together, so they won't be confronted with this dilemma. I agree that all women should attempt to get their finances together but sometimes, in the role of a traditional marriage, their spouses control everything. Judging from the vagaries of OD, I'm guessing that this is the case. Please refer to serial muse's post for the rest.
VinaAmez Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Sorry but he clearly states that his wife KNOWS about the affair and chooses to IGNORE it. He also says that he does not love her anymore and is staying for the kids. As I've said I don't condone how he's gone about things, but she also needs to wake up and stop living in fantasy land if she thinks he's going to come running back to her. Some women whether married or not need to get their finances together, so they won't be confronted with this dilemma. Don't you think your jumping to conclusions? We don't know what his W is doing. For all we know she could be talking to a really good lawyer.
lorr Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Don't you think your jumping to conclusions? We don't know what his W is doing. For all we know she could be talking to a really good lawyer. He clearly states that he gave her the option for divorce on DDay and she refused. But anyway your right - we don't know what his wife is doing, and I hope for her sake she finds a very good lawyer.
serial muse Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 He clearly states that he gave her the option for divorce on DDay and she refused. But anyway your right - we don't know what his wife is doing, and I hope for her sake she finds a very good lawyer. Ever been in this situation? I have. When D-Day happens, it's not like you're thinking very clearly. Of course she refused. She was in shock.
outofdarkness Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Great post! Thanks!! It's good to hear that my posts sound ok...
Chapter2 Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Assuming his wife knows, which I tend to believe she does...and assuming she is staying for financial reasons or the children then this is abuse. There is emotional, physical, verbal and sexual abuse... ALL forms take their toll, shame and belittle a human being. How would his wife be any different than if he were beating her up once a month? He might never hit the children and it may very well be a secret to everyone but the wife and her husband... I am IN NO WAY referring to a situation where a spouse has cheated once and takes all steps necessary for restoration...but this man clearly (from what he himself has stated) disregards his wife's feelings, opinions and pain, not to mention that of his own children. Would anyone encourage her to stay because of finances? I hope not...if so, LS has sunk to an all time low I hadn't seen yet. I would personally tell her to get her children and get the hell out of such an abusive situation which is exactly what I'd tell her to do now. Is infidelity not a form of abuse to the person you took your vows with and to the children you brought into the world together? Do some people need encouragement to get out of such a terrible relationship...absolutely. She's apparently so beaten down that she now believes she can't take care of herself but she absolutely can. And, yes, before you ask me if I've been in that situation...I have. I made the choice to live in a one bedroom apartment with my child with no child support for several years so that I would not have to be indebted to someone that did not have our best interests at heart~~in fact, his intent was emotional harm. IMHO...there are several forms of prostitution. Edited to add...I hope that this wife, whoever she is, gets away from this man and absolutely thrives without him. He doesn't sound at all repentant or remorseful. He sounds like he believes he is entitled. He is treating his wife and his children AND the OW like trash...again, just one person's opinion.
bridget_jones Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 and she really is the most important person in the world to you, you would not disrespect her by living with and sleeping with another woman (your wife). When I fell in love with my OW there were no choices to make, I could no more be without her than I could be without air. It really is that simple. Disrespect the OW? OH no, not like you hadn't been disrespecting your wife the whole time you were with her. Not like OW wasn't disrespectful with her body, also, giving it away to another woman's man. Not that simple when kids are involved. Do you have kids?
Babybird Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Assuming his wife knows, which I tend to believe she does...and assuming she is staying for financial reasons or the children then this is abuse. There is emotional, physical, verbal and sexual abuse... ALL forms take their toll, shame and belittle a human being. How would his wife be any different than if he were beating her up once a month? He might never hit the children and it may very well be a secret to everyone but the wife and her husband... I am IN NO WAY referring to a situation where a spouse has cheated once and takes all steps necessary for restoration...but this man clearly (from what he himself has stated) disregards his wife's feelings, opinions and pain, not to mention that of his own children. Don't you think that's a little dramatic? Abuse? Physical and sexual? Come on now. She's a grown adult woman. She has choices. She made her choice to stay. I don't feel one bit sorry for her if she wants to stay for a cheating husband. Thats implying an awful lot by saying because he cheating he has beat her down to the point where she has to stay. It's the OW's or YSM's choice to be in this R. If she's being strung along its not unlike the rest of us that wait and hope that 'he' leaves. I just can't figure out why everyone would have such a hard time believing that MM or MW for that matter would stay for their children. TO all of those that have children: you wake up and see them every morning, kiss them and tell them you love them before work/school, see them at dinner, tell them you love them and kiss them good night. Help with homework, play patty cake, snuggle with your kids. How easy is that to give up? Even though you love someone else obviously the kids have to be taking priority because he isn't leaving. I know it kills me when my kids go to their dad's for the weekend. I know it kills my exH to drop them off and go three or four days without seeing them. Any good father WOULD want to stay so they DON'T miss out on the good things, the everyday things. MM are selfish, lying pigs and affairs are bad, blah, blah, blah, but the women that are in A's and KNOW they're in them are just as stupid as they(MM) are selfish. This includes myself.
Rooster_DAR Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Sounds like immaturity and total fantasy, this thread is a joke.
Chapter2 Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Babybird...I don't disagree...she is making the choice to stay. That is exactly why I don't understand why so many take the position that she is in shock or isn't financially stable, etc. She is responsible for herself and is not resepcting herself most of all. Yes, comparing it to physical and sexual abuse is over the top, but you would never know that from the sypathy given to those that choose to stay and continue to be betrayed. Just as an abuse victim can love themselves enough to save themselves, so can this man's wife. My point is that to say she is staying for those reasons must mean she's beaten down to think she can't make it on her own. SHE CAN AND SHOULD if what her husband has said is true. I realize that is a HUGE if. Don't you think that's a little dramatic? Abuse? Physical and sexual? Come on now. She's a grown adult woman. She has choices. She made her choice to stay. I don't feel one bit sorry for her if she wants to stay for a cheating husband. Thats implying an awful lot by saying because he cheating he has beat her down to the point where she has to stay. It's the OW's or YSM's choice to be in this R. If she's being strung along its not unlike the rest of us that wait and hope that 'he' leaves. I just can't figure out why everyone would have such a hard time believing that MM or MW for that matter would stay for their children. TO all of those that have children: you wake up and see them every morning, kiss them and tell them you love them before work/school, see them at dinner, tell them you love them and kiss them good night. Help with homework, play patty cake, snuggle with your kids. How easy is that to give up? Even though you love someone else obviously the kids have to be taking priority because he isn't leaving. I know it kills me when my kids go to their dad's for the weekend. I know it kills my exH to drop them off and go three or four days without seeing them. Any good father WOULD want to stay so they DON'T miss out on the good things, the everyday things. MM are selfish, lying pigs and affairs are bad, blah, blah, blah, but the women that are in A's and KNOW they're in them are just as stupid as they(MM) are selfish. This includes myself.
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 The perfect situation for OD then. He can have his OW, an unpaid nanny that also works and he gets to see his children daily. No wonder MM like this want to stay in their marriages.
Chapter2 Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Honestly, this might be the truest post on the entire thread. Thank you for the slap back into reality RDAR...greatly needed...I'm now a little embarrassed for having put so much energy into it:o Sounds like immaturity and total fantasy, this thread is a joke.
VinaAmez Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Maybe I'm reading this wrong and so sorry if I am but there is no way I would want to say with someone just for the kids well being. I would want him to end the A, work on the marriage, and WANT to be with ME AND the kids. It shouldn't be for the kids only IMO.
Babybird Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Babybird...I don't disagree...she is making the choice to stay. That is exactly why I don't understand why so many take the position that she is in shock or isn't financially stable, etc. She is responsible for herself and is not respecting herself most of all. Yes, comparing it to physical and sexual abuse is over the top, but you would never know that from the sympathy given to those that choose to stay and continue to be betrayed. Just as an abuse victim can love themselves enough to save themselves, so can this man's wife. My point is that to say she is staying for those reasons must mean she's beaten down to think she can't make it on her own. SHE CAN AND SHOULD if what her husband has said is true. I realize that is a HUGE if. Okay that makes sense. I don't think I got that out of your first post. I agree. I didn't get the impression that she would struggle financially if her left. She has a job and would most likely get child support. I imagine its straight up fear. Fear of the unknown, of being a single parent, of losing him period, that has her staying. Could be part of the abuse mentality that you were talking about. Who knows but I think its sad.
whichwayisup Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 It's the OW's or YSM's YSM is the OW, not the wife. I just can't figure out why everyone would have such a hard time believing that MM or MW for that matter would stay for their children. Yes, but most don't continue the affair on the side and stay married. Those who choose to stay at home and stay married, END the affair and do what they can to fix the marriage, for the kids sake. To stay in the marriage, for the kids sake and still have the affair is just plain selfish. It's that simple.
sadbuttrue Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 wwiu, my MM is doing exactly that. he has said he will not leave because of his kids, but wants to continue seeing me as well. he has no intention whatsover in working on his marriage. he said there is no hope for them. MM are very selfish, but i think a lot of the time they truly believe they are protecting others with their lies.
Freedom Now Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Not so simple, WWIU. For the men who choose to stay at home and stay married, not all END the affair and do what they can to fix the marriage for the kid's sake. My xMM never wanted the affair to end and if I was still willing to settle, I would still be involved with him. But, I agree. To choose to stay married and choose to keep the OW on the side after D-day is purely and simply selfish. No man is worth having two women fighting for him. No man.
Chapter2 Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 AMEN!!! AND AGAIN I SAY AMEN!!! No man is worth having two women fighting for him. No man.
BenThereDunThat Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 No man is worth having two women fighting for him. No man. O.M.G. Thank you. Do you NOT see how the MM gets a boner off of this??? Every time the OW gets 'mad' at him, yells at him, whines at him, whatever. That VALIDATES him. He NEEDS that to feel like a MAN. Otherwise, he would NEVER be a MM.... He would simply be....a HUSBAND, a BOYFRIEND, a LOVER, a whatever. He would just BE. He would be a MAN.
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