Complicated situation,

[Zapbasket]

That's what keeps stabbing my heart, though: in retrospect there were ways in which he was forthcoming with what he needed. For one, during our LDR he was working 12-hour days and didn't want to spend 2 hours on the phone with me. I would be hurt and not want to let him get off the phone. I was depressed, I missed him, and frankly I probably just am not cut out for a LDR. But I didn't respect his needs and maybe I left him no choice but to hang up on me.

 

I also remember one Saturday this past fall, when we'd made plans that he was going to come from the city to my family's house in the nearby suburb. I called him that morning to ask what time he thought he'd come. He was grumpy because I wasn't there in the city with him. I felt desperate, because all I was getting from him was silent resentment and I was terrified by it, and so I said to him, "But can't you be happy knowing that we're going to have fun together this afternoon in Suburb and go enjoy yourself until then? It's like whenever you feel down you blame me." So later that afternoon, when he arrived in Suburb on the train, I had walked to the station to meet him and he was in better spirits; he picked me up in an embrace and spun me in the air and all was happy for about 5 blocks. He'd read a Psychology Today article in the train on letting go of grudges. He was saying that maybe he was going to join a sports team as a way of meeting people.

 

Rather than be happy for him, I said the following. The week before I'd just started my new job and faced a terrible commute every day. He'd asked me to stay with him several nights a week and I was planning to, but felt I needed to adjust to the job a bit first as I didn't want to be schlepping around with a suitcase and all my workclothes until I became more familiar with the demands of my new schedule. So that first week, he was upset that we saw each other only two evenings the whole work week. So the next week, I made sure we met up every day after work before I had to catch the train home. I thought that would please him, and now, in saying he wanted to join a sports team, I was worried that that would cut into our seeing each other every evening. So I said that to him. And I said also that with the commute, how was I going to branch out and make new friends in the city? To which he replied, "You don't care about my happiness."

 

I went ape****. He had resented me all fall, and I was freaking out every minute wanting this to work so badly, feeling intense pressure, feeling like I was failing to please him which was upsetting me terribly and feeling the weight of all his resentment--in short, I cared every instant about his happiness and was doing my best to ensure that everything would be solid once I moved in with him (getting situated in my job, saving money like crzay)--and his accusation was like a shot through the chest. I had a major freak-out on the street. I said I hated his friends and he was boring and I said sarcastically, "Yeah, I care so little that actually I'd always planned to break up with you as soon as I finished my thesis" (NOT TRUE). He fell silent and I became more desperate. By the time we arrived at the house I told him he could stay for dinner but then he had to leave; I said that only to provoke him. He turned and walked up the street and left, heading towards the train station. At first I was going to let him go. But then I couldn't bear it and I ran after him. I was so humiliated at having to do that that by the time I caught up with him I slapped him (on the shoulder, like a girl), and I took away his backpack so he wouldn't leave.

 

At this point I was beside myself. I had been feeling so much pressure and things weren't going well between us and it was torturing me. I started to cry, loudly, on the street, and walked ahead of him. I opened his backpack and I don't know why but I threw a magazine out into the bushes, and some coupons, and then bawled and ran ahead down the street in the dark. He didn't follow. He collected the coupons from the bushes, walked to my mom's house, while I went to the train station thinking he'd gone there. That evening, he stayed over but stonewalledme utterly while I pleaded with him, crying.

 

It all sounds pretty awful, no? I feel so ashamed. I just couldn't bear the pressure anymore, I was so upset that things weren't going well, but that was no excuse for me to freak out like that. He was absolutely horrified by the incident and it was three days later, in mid-November, that he broke up with me the first time, saying, "I can't handle you."

 

So I look back on that, and feel like I really blew it, was a terrible girlfriend, etc. Saying that I felt great pressure and dismay that things weren't going well and I wasn't communicating successfully with the most important person in the world to me and that the weight of his resentment all fall had grown unbearable doesn't excuse my behavior that day, does it? He WAS trying, he WAS communicating that day, and I didn't receive it.

 

That's why I fear he was right not to forgive me, to break up with me so utterly. But at the same time I feel I was responding to the stress and I just did it in a really unproductive way. CAn people be forgiven for something like I describe? Would any of you forgive it?

[Cossette4]

What about your situation, Cossette? Have you had any contact with your guy in the past 8.5 months? Why do you think he up and left? From the sound of it, given he clearly chose someone after you with whom he could just have fun without all the heady committment, maybe he got scared? I don't know how old you guys are? I'm 30 and my ex (I still can't bear to refer to him that way) is 6 months younger than me. Have you sought contact with your guy at all during this time?

 

I'm pretty sure I've got it figured out what he was feeling that compelled him to do this. It's sort of a long, drawn-out story, so I apologize in advance for this NOVEL I'm about to write.

 

I'm 23 and he's 24. We both met in highschool and starting dating. Back then, he had a lot of "highschool" stuff going for him, so he was a pretty confident guy. He played all the sports, he was in the "popular" crowd, prom court, yada yada. I, on the other hand, was the bookworm type so when he liked me, I thought it was sooooo greeeeeat because he was sooooo cool

 

So fast-forward to highschool graduation, and he suddenly lost everything about him that gave him confidence. He is not by any means a good student, and so his escapades at college were basically a joke (he spent 4 years at a community college and didn't even get his Associates. I found out through others that he just wouldn't even show up to class 90% of the time.) I, on the other hand, was valedictorian of my highschool class, and I was all about the academics, internships, etc. in college.

 

During this time, our relationship was long-distance, but I always tried to get him to stay in school and succeed because that was very important to me and something that has been ingrained in me from a very young age. His mother LOVED me because I kept pushing him to stick with school, find something he was good at, and achieve.

 

Well, turns out college wasn't for him. That would have been fine and I would have accepted that, had he been open and honest about it. But what did he do for 4 years? HE LIED TO ME. Told me he was getting all A's and B's, told me of the colleges he was going to transfer to, etc. And I believed it all and was so proud of him and kept encouraging him to do more. But then at the end of every semester when it came time to "transfer," he mysteriously wouldn't. When grades were published, he mysteriously lost his password and couldn't log in to view them. Each time I'd catch him in a lie, he would confess just that piece of it and then promise never to lie about school stuff again, but then each semester---more lies. It was pathetic and sad.

 

To top it all off, he would get these stupid "jobs" around town that any 16 year old could obtain and then brag to everyone about how he was a "manager" or a "supervisor" and was making so much money. That made me even angrier because here I was working toward a degree to kickstart a career, and here was someone doing nothing with their life but trying to brag about their ficticious career.

 

So I started treating him like he was a stupid loser because I was angry and upset and hurt and frustrated and sick of being lied to. So I would put him down everytime he made me mad, tell him his job was a joke and he wouldn't go anywhere in life if he didn't go back to school or at least get specialized training in some way, called him dumb, reminded him that I was going somewhere in life and he better keep up.

 

I know all of that was wrong, and I later apologized for it, and to this day I feel bad about being such a b:bunny: tch. But you see, I didn't always approach it so harshly. I only started to after he lied and blew off my advice and support. He brought out the worst in me.

 

So fast-foward to July--I was at my internship in NYC and he had already come to visit me at the end of June. I think it all came to a head that I was really about to graduate, relocate, start a career, and he felt that he would be left behind because from my yelling, he got the impression I didn't care anymore and was going to leave him for someone smarter and more stable (which wasn't true...I stuck by him through all of his problems and lies because I loved him.)

 

So he calls and basically says it's over because "We fight all the time" and hangs up. I try to call for 40 days (while in NYC) and get no answer.

 

Then I finally return home and hear from our mutual friends that he's with some new girl. I can't believe my eyes because he was NEVER this type of guy and he seemed totally in love with me. He even bought me this huge vase full of roses in NYC while I was at work, and discussed our wedding (we weren't engaged but just always casually mentioned *our wedding*). Days go by and I start hearing more unbelievable stuff--she's bisexual (and both me and my ex are conservative Catholics..btw, not trying to "bash" anyone's sexual preference, but merely illustrating how it's really surprising that he would be sexually attracted to her given his background), she's a highschool dropout, she's covered in tattoos and piercings, her hair is cut like a boy with long pieces in the front, she's got a website where she posts pics of herself naked wrapped in duct-tape and bubble wrap, she's got a myspace that's super trashy and talks about how she really likes to go to strip clubs and go to the mall to "girl-watch," and just a bunch of really disgusting sexual crap. And THEN I find out they started living together just 2 WEEKS after our breakup, and we NEVER lived together!

 

So I'm just devestated and feel like I NEED to find out what's going on. My friends force him to call me sometime in August and he says things like "Yeah I'm over this. No I don't see any reason for us to meet or talk." And I DEMAND that we meet face-to-face. He agrees only through pressure from friends, and we meet at the end of August. It was the most surreal, sick night ever. He was so cold and stand-offish and creepy. He just kept saying things like, "She makes me happy...I want to be with her." He doesn't seem to show any emotion or sorrow or regret (and he hasn't seen me in 2 months!) I kept going, "Um...she's skanky....you moved in together after 14 days....WTF IS GOING ON?!?!?!?" And he just looked at me like I was speaking another language. Get this, he even CALLED HER in front of me to ask her if it was okay if he stayed an extra 10 minutes because he promised her he'd be home by 3:00. :mad: :mad:

 

So I ended the night by basically saying, "You are majorly f:bunny: cked up and this is a rebound big time. I know you don't ever like to communicate your feelings or confide in anyone, but what you did to me will eat you alive. When you fall hard because of this, I hope I'm the first person you call, because even though what you did to me means we can NEVER be together again, I still care about you as a person and I have a feeling your hurt is yet to come."

 

Now that would have been an AWESOME way to end it, but of course, I had a freak-out in September and starting calling him again. He answered 2 times and both phone calls turned into 4-hour conversations (no idea where the SKANK was at this time...) In the first phone call I asked him if he cheated on me/planned this new relationship in advance, and of course, he totally denied it. "We were just friends from work...I never saw her like that..." Do I believe that? No. There was at least an EMOTIONAL affair going on, even if there's no real proof of a physical affair.

 

In both phonecalls, he started off really cold and bitter and mean, saying reallllllly hurtful things to me (and I could hardly believe what I was hearing because he never spoke like that to me ever in 5 years), but then it seemed like he would start to break down after a couple hours and admit some things like "I just thought you didn't care about me." And at one point I asked, "So if you could turn back the hands of time and relive this entire situation, would you 1.) keep it as it is now where you and me are shattered and you are with that skank, or would you 2.) have shown me some respect and worth and you and me could be friends and you wouldn't be with her?" And after silence he softly said, "....The second one...."

 

But that was the ONLY *nice" thing said. And then he ended up hanging up on me and I haven't spoken to him since (that last call was September 18th). And he's still with trailer trash, b/c one of my friends saw them together buying a sofa this past week.

 

So based off of that ridiculously long novel, I think he did what he did because he couldn't keep up with the pressure I was dishing out to him to finish school and do something with his life. I think he was too caught up in his lies and didn't know how to get out. He didn't understand that the truth sets you free and he figured he couldn't lie anymore. He misinterpreted my frustration and yelling as meaning I didn't care when in fact I cared TOO much. So he just gave up.

 

And look who he ran to--he ran to a girl who is NEVER going to tell him to go back to school when she herself is a highschool dropout, she's NEVER going to make fun of his job because she had the same one, she's going to think he walks on water, and he uses her to build up the self-esteem he lost back in highschool. She's below him and that makes him feel better. Not to mention she's so sexually easy and pathetic and at this low point in his life, he's attracted to that. He even told one of my friends, "Yeah she's really laid back and cool--she irons my shirts, cooks me dinner, and she doesn't yell at me." See how sad that is? No normal, confident, stable guy would like a girl for those reasons.

 

It hurts a lot that this happened and that the image of who he is now is so drastically different from the person I loved for 5 years. Sometimes I am so angry with him, but now that I typed this out and re-read it, I actually feel sorry for him.

 

So there you go.

[Cossette4]

Ok wow it looks even longer now that it's posted. You might want to get yourself a cold beverage before you read.

[Zapbasket]

Cossette, I'm so sorry. That's such a sad story--for both of you. I can imagine that deep down your guy was really frightened that you, succeeding as you were in college, were going to move up and onward and he was going to be left behind. And so he built a persona in lies that could 'keep up' with you. Of course he only did that because he felt if you knew the truth, you'd have left him. Can you imagine the insecurity a person has to feel to do that? And also, in a twisted way, Cossette, the love: he desperately didn't want to lose you. I'd bet he felt so lucky to have you, and it's so sad that he ended up doing something that sends precisely the opposite message.

 

And OF COURSE you yelled at him; you were being lied to, and what's more, it's frightening (especially, I think, when you're a woman) when the world is oystering open for you, generating all kinds of possibilities, and you're with someone whose actions are actually clamming up possibilities for himself. Because you have all these open doors, and to walk through any one of them inevitably will lead you away from your partner. It's so sad that you, too, ended up doing something (yelling) to express how much you cared and how you didn't want to lose him even if by outgrowing him, something that FEELS like the opposite of caring when you're under its fire.

 

It's so crazy how real love works, isn't it? My mother was saying to me that now that I have faced a relationship stress like the one with my partner this past fall, I'll handle a similar stress in the future much better. And I shook my head and said, "No, because whenever deep caring and tremendous stress go together, things always get messy and it really has nothing to do with maturity, when we feel threatened we are at our worst."

 

He broke up with you in a terrible way and I completely understand, as I elaborated in another thread, why you are still raw months later. But from the dynamics you describe, I suspect he'll always have you on a pedastal. I think he felt that you had already rejected him and he merely consummated it by breaking up the relationship. He was in this relationship provisionally as it was, as he felt he had to be someone else in some respects in order to deserve to stay with you. And that's not you're fault at all.

 

Do you imagine you'll contact him again, or that he'll contact you? If so, would you ever get back together with him if the opportunity presented itself?

 

Thanks for sharing your story. It really is a great solace to know I'm not alone in this tremendous hurt.

[corazoncito]

I'm really sorry for everything that you are going through GreenCove. It must be so hard, especially after keeping up an LDR for so long, to have it end when you can finally be together. I was in an LDR for 1.5 years and now we've been living together for about a month. It's been turbulent trying to get used to being together so I understand what you were going through.

 

I'm joining this thread late and there's so much to your story that I can't really address it all. But I thought I'd share a little of a past relationship because I was kind of in you Ex's place. Obviously it's a totally different scenario, but maybe it would give you some ideas into your own situation.

 

I was dating a guy for 5.5 years and we were engaged for the last 6 months. I broke off the engagement. He was devastated and angry. Although we weren't long distance, I kind of feel some similarities to your story because we struggled with our communication and career ambitions throughout our relationship, getting engaged was sort of an 11th hour attempt to make things better, and when I was finally engaged (which I thought was what would really make me happy) I realized that this relationship was not making me happy and was never going to change and I broke it off.

 

We both went to grad school in the same program/field. It was easy. We were both already in the same place, we got along, had friends in common, living together made financial sense, etc. We would talk vaguely about the future, but it was always comfortably in the distance. Moving and who might have to sacrifice so that the other could take their dream job was always pleasantly hypothetical. Basically, we each did our own thing and expected the relationship to sort itself out.

 

Anyway, for us, the real world started to intrude when I applied for a fellowship that would have me out of the country for almost a year. He could come with me and he was at a point in his PhD where he didn't need to be in residence at our university. I asked him a year and half in advance if he wanted to go and he said no. Why? Because he didn't want to. This should have been my red flag. I asked him from time to time if he didn't want to reconsider, that it was a really long time to be apart, especially because it was likely that he would be out of the country himself for 3 months before I would leave. Still, "no. I can come and visit". And, yes, it would be hard from him to work on his dissertation in the country where I would be living. Ironically, in the meantime, he got a 3 month fellowship in a different country and never even considered the possibility I wouldn't want to go with him. I did go because I thought it was better for our relationship not to be apart if it wasn't necessary. And we had a blast. And I got no work done because there were no resources there for me. But I felt it was worth it.

 

We got engaged then (that was actually a nightmare process and probably when I should have ended things). I ended up hearing that I had gotten the fellowship abroad a couple of weeks later. A week after he went to do his research abroad for 3 months. After he got back I had to leave right away for my country. I left, got settled, and at first was really overwhelmed with my new life. But after a month or two I really started to love it. And I got to know the other grantees in my program. I noticed that almost all of their SO's had come with them, some working from abroad, some take a leave of absence, some using their SO's fellowship as a chance to change careers or go back to school. But all were supporting their SO's and were committed to their relationships. I also noticed the dynamic between them was so different. Calm and steady. They were always each other's first priority. Ours was really up and down. Undying declarations of total love followed by periods of complete disconnection. Career (for both of us) was always first (the relationship could adjust around that). I realized there was something wrong.

 

I started to feel disconnected from him. He told me he was applying for a 3 year postdoc in a country where I didn't want to live and where there were no opportunities for me. He just assumed I would go and was shocked when I said no. I felt even more distant from him. Then I met up with a colleague I had known for some time. I found I had feeling for this person and that he had for me too. It was a mess. He had the qualities I was realizing I wanted. He was a bit older, had an established career, and was responsible. I felt awful for my F because most of those things the new guy had achieved simply as a matter of time, not because he was better. And with time, my F would get there too. But I also realized that we would just never be in the same place in our lives at the same time. And if I was going to marry him, I'd have to accept that dynamic. Forever. And I couldn't do that. I just now wish I had simply broken up with him when I first started to feel doubts, instead of involving a third party. It was an awful thing to do.

 

So the next time he came to visit (three weeks after I first went out with this person), I called off the engagement. He was shocked and blindsided. He asked if it was over another person. I told him "it wasn't about that" because he was so upset at that moment I didn't think he could handle that news (and it really wasn't about that other person. He was simply a symptom of problems in our relationship that I had chosen not to try to solve). F left immediately and asked for NC for 10 days. Then he called and asked again. I told him that, yes, I had been seeing someone. He was beyond furious and betrayed. I decided he needed to know, because despite the NC, he had emailed me once and said he was hoping I would reconsider. This way, although it was harsh, he knew the full score. I think that helped him immediately forgo any discussions about reconsidering. It never came up again. He did contact me repeatedly for a few weeks, furious and demanding that I explain everything. I told him my thought process that I outlined above, but it was never enough. The problem is that he didn't really want me to just tell him what happened. De wanted me to make him understand and accept my decision. And that was something only he could do for himself, in his own time. And because these discussions were so emotional, everything I said came out wrong and cruel and just hurt him more. I didn't blame him, but when I talked about what made me unhappy in the relationship, he took it as an attack. So I finally told him it was a closed subject. It all came down to me not wanting to have a relationship with him. That I had told him everything and that nothing in the story was going to change and I didn't want to talk about it ever again. We've really never spoken again, and I don't think we ever will. It's so sad, but it's what he needs and I've accepted that.

 

I don't think your ex had very good communication skills during the relationship and so in a way, it’s maybe not so surprising that they would get worse during the breakup. And I don't think he's being very kind or diplomatic in how he's dealt with the break up. I am not making excuses for him. But, IMO, closure is something only you can give yourself. And, trust me, I say that having been on your end too more often than not. Going through this experience helped me put a lot of old relationships in perspective. I was able to forgive some crappy behavior. Not that I excused it, but was able to understand a little better why these guys did what they did and let some of the bitterness go, for my own sake.

 

Just remember, you did nothing wrong. You just lived your life. This wasn't the right person for you, but you WILL find him. Take whatever time you need to heal. And you ARE strong enough to heal yourself. You don't need him to do it.

 

(((((hugs GreenCove)))))

[Cossette4]

Do you imagine you'll contact him again, or that he'll contact you? If so, would you ever get back together with him if the opportunity presented itself?

 

 

I know I'll never be the one initiating the contact again. Everytime I did, I ended up feeling stupid and pathetic afterwards. He isn't even the same person anymore (even his voice sounded different) so there's no reason for me to try and reason with a stranger.

 

Most of my friends and family say, "Just wait...you'll be getting a phone call." And if what he's doing is truly a rebound, I bet I will, too. Once the fog clears and he realizes who he's with and who he lost, once she no longer seems to be filling the void in his life, once he does some soul searching, I think I might be hearing from him. Then again, some days I think he really changed who he is and he's never going to be that guy I knew and loved for 5 years ever again.

 

If he did call, GOD I don't even know what I'd do. There are days where I would be praying that he'd call and I could just be the best friend he ever had and forgive him for everything and help him through his problems, but then there are days where I am so angry and hurt I would tell him off BIG TIME about all the pain he's put me through and then slam the phone down as hard as I could. These two feelings switch by the day, so God only knows what I'd do.

 

As for getting back together, no. I couldn't. The sad thing is, if we had broken up in a respectful manner, I would have left the door open for getting back together hands down. I love him. And we had a lot together in 5 years. And the only issue we had was his lack of motivation with school/work. If he finally grew up in that department and tried to actually make something of himself instead of covering up his life with lies, I could have been happy with him forever. He still may do that one day, but now the problem is:

 

The betrayal. He showed me a side of him I didn't know was possible in that person. He has put me in more pain than I have ever felt in my entire life BY FAR. I don't want to be with a guy who is capable of treating me that way. I could never fully trust that he wouldn't do it to me again in the future when times got tough.

 

And secondly, the fact that he's been with and LIVED WITH a trailer trash bisexual skank. I can never look at him the same again knowing his hands touched her. I am literally sickened beyond belief by that thought.

 

I know most people have to deal with the fact that the person they are dating has been with someone else at some point in the past. That's normal and natural and shouldn't gross anyone out. But what's hard for me is we were each other's first everything, so I never had to deal with any "ex girlfriends" of his because he didn't have any. But if he would ever come back, I would have to deal with the physical/emotional relationship history of him with a skank that he left me for. No way in hell I'm doing that.

 

There's a good chance he will always be a liar and a coward, and those are things I won't tolerate. There's also a good chance he will one day mature and be honest and courageous. Unfortunately, he made some permanent scars in the process that can never go away.

 

In fact, now that I think about it, should he ever call and want to try again, I'll be telling him just that. "Sorry, there were definitely areas that were fixable that could have made all the difference, but YOU made some really poor hurtful shattering choices and so now the answer is no because I can't deal with how you treated me and who you've been with, so you can thank your trailer trash slut for forever changing the way I see you."