norajane Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 Think about this good and hard, because money is one of those issues that destroys relationships in the long run. It's up there in the top three things that married couples fight about. He may say it will be different when you're married, but what evidence do you have of that? If you will always be making less money than he is, he is very likely to use that to control you even after you are married... ...he will feel free to buy whatever he wants, but you will have to "ask" and "justify" why you want to buy something ...he will make the final decision on large purchases, like cars, houses, whether you go on vacation and where, etc., and will only take your opinions and desires under advisement, if at all ...he will control the household finances, checkbook, credit cards, and will require that you account for every penny you spend, regardless if it was for groceries or shoes or a new vacuum cleaner or baby clothes or a dinner out with your girlfriends ...he will feel entitled to make the rules because he makes more money
allina Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 I'd keep rewarding him for good behavior. And be vocal about why you're rewarding him. I'm doing this because you did this. So he links the two. Isn't this how you train puppies?? I still think it's a huge issue that they have to have discussions about money each day.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 10, 2007 Author Posted April 10, 2007 Think about this good and hard, because money is one of those issues that destroys relationships in the long run. It's up there in the top three things that married couples fight about. He may say it will be different when you're married, but what evidence do you have of that? If you will always be making less money than he is, he is very likely to use that to control you even after you are married... ...he will feel free to buy whatever he wants, but you will have to "ask" and "justify" why you want to buy something ...he will make the final decision on large purchases, like cars, houses, whether you go on vacation and where, etc., and will only take your opinions and desires under advisement, if at all ...he will control the household finances, checkbook, credit cards, and will require that you account for every penny you spend, regardless if it was for groceries or shoes or a new vacuum cleaner or baby clothes or a dinner out with your girlfriends ...he will feel entitled to make the rules because he makes more money yeah thats what my mom has told me. i highly doubt he'l find a gf/wife who is going to make more money then him (or even equal to) so he's going to have to deal with being the provider. and obviously he doesnt want to do that. so i am going to have to have a discussion about all this, and see if we can come to some sort of compromise. if we cant and he is still stubborn about it, then i'm going to be gone.
dropdeadlegs Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 I'm glad you had a wonderful weekend. You have the info needed to make decisions. It's your life to live. I hope that will be a happy life.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 oh god guys the talk went bad. i told him how i was feeling. he told me he feels like i'm taking advantage of him cause he has money, because i expect him to pay for more things cause he has more money than me. he said that i phrase everything "u should pay for this because u have more money" instead of "will u pay for this cause u have more money." i guess i didnt realize there was a difference. so he said i sound like a gold digger when i do that, and he doesnt want to pay one dime for me when i do that. so i apologized for giving him that inpression but he was real pissed and got real distant. i thought we kind of resolved the issue but he's still extremely mad.he said he's going to go work out and didnt say i love u or anything. he then called me back a couple minutes later, and told me that he might not be around this weekend cause he might go visit his friend in ohio. he sounded really distant and weird and he told me that he might not be around. i had plans to come home this weekend to help my parents move so i do have to come home, but i know he's doing this cause he's pissed. what am i going to do? is there really a difference in what i said or is he just hung up on money? i cant believe he's doing this, i might have just lost him. all i feel like doing right now is crying. i cant believe this is happening.
Walk Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Can you give the jist of the conversation you had with him? Even if you were saying specifically "you have to pay", then why the heck couldn't he bring that up weeks ago? Was there something clamping his tongue down so he couldn't talk? If it was bothering him soooo darn much, then why does he wait until you bring up a problem for him to say he has a problem? I think he went on the defense. I think he fears that he'll be taken advantage of, and is projecting that fear on to you. And I think he's being immature, childish, and a prick, for giving you the cold shoulder now. I think there's certain expectations in a relationship that our partner will provide when we can't. And you're bf wasn't breathing a word about you asking if he can pay... he was adamant that YOU would shoulder your half. Everything you've posted about has said that he tells you that YOU have to pay. You've said before that he sits down and says "your paying, right?" So why is it okay for him to phrase it that way, but not for you? What suddenly makes it alright for him to demand, but you have to beg?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 Can you give the jist of the conversation you had with him? Even if you were saying specifically "you have to pay", then why the heck couldn't he bring that up weeks ago? Was there something clamping his tongue down so he couldn't talk? If it was bothering him soooo darn much, then why does he wait until you bring up a problem for him to say he has a problem? I think he went on the defense. I think he fears that he'll be taken advantage of, and is projecting that fear on to you. And I think he's being immature, childish, and a prick, for giving you the cold shoulder now. I think there's certain expectations in a relationship that our partner will provide when we can't. And you're bf wasn't breathing a word about you asking if he can pay... he was adamant that YOU would shoulder your half. Everything you've posted about has said that he tells you that YOU have to pay. You've said before that he sits down and says "your paying, right?" So why is it okay for him to phrase it that way, but not for you? What suddenly makes it alright for him to demand, but you have to beg? yeah i dont honestly believe that i'm the problem. he is saying now that he has felt like no other girl has tried to take advantage of him before and that its only me. and that asking for him to pay for something and telling him to pay for something because i cant afford it are two different things. telling him is nagging him and thats when he doesnt want to pay for me. i fiind that a little hard to believe, cause honestly he has said before that he hates paying for everything in a relationship. he says he has tried to tell me how he is feeling but i would never listen blah blah blah. so i dont know what is going to happen. we are still both very angry, so i dont have any clue. he said that he wants to make sure i'm not trying to take advantage of him so he said he is not going to offer to pay for me ever until he feels that i'm not trying to take advantage of him. thats rediculous. here's a story: for valentine's day he bought me this bottle of perfume at the store (i went with him to pick it out). we get to the check out counter and it turns out the bottle was 30 bucks (it was marked wrong). he freaks out and returns it when i'm there with him, and buys me this other bottle that is 7 dollars. i didnt do anything to make him feel i was taking advantage of him, so why did he complain that it was too expensive and return it in front of me. i dont believe his crap, he's just trying to turn it around on me. i dont know what the real story is, what do u guys think? is he just cheap and stingy? he keeps changing his reasons for not paying and i cant understand what is going on. what should i do?
dropdeadlegs Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 You already know my opinion. I have been quiet and have spent the evening getting caught up on your ongoing story. I DO think he is turning things around on you. Walk has stated something that I said on page 3 or thereabouts. A relationship, and the finances within it, are subject to certain ratios. He has the benefit of being out of college and working. You are still in school. Your field of study will likely not afford the same income. When each party gives to the ability of their means, that is more than enough! I have stated that I have some money issues myself. I don't like to "owe" anyone so I tend to give more than I can afford at times, but never more than I feel I get back tenfold. My BF can be annoying in that when I go to the store and buy some groceries he wants to give me money. I want to contribute financially too! I have 2-3 kids we're feeding (depending on the day) and he has 1. I am especially touchy about food costs. I have more people to feed! He pays for many grocery trips and almost always pays for fast food meals. I guess we have the opposite problem. We both want to pay ALL the time. But we have comparable income amounts and comparable monthly debts. That means we have fairly equal amounts of disposable income. You and your BF do not have that equality currently. Maybe you never will. I think he is stingy, and I fail to understand why. I know plenty of women who will not date a man that doesn't always pay, and they don't seem to have a problem getting dates. I don't think you would have any problems, either. That V day story made me cringe. He can't spend $30 on V day? That wasn't even an expensive perfume! My man's cologne costs $80 and I LOVE buying it for him! (He's not a "mall" guy and it's available at fine dept. stores.) melodymatters said it best, a man that is stingy with his money will often be stingy in other areas, like love. I'm so sorry that this is happening, but sometimes it is best to know things earlier rather than later. My best wishes are always with you.
Walk Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 he is saying now that he has felt like no other girl has tried to take advantage of him before and that its only me he's only had one other serious gf when he was 19 who cheated on him a year into their relationship One other gf 10 years ago... hmmmm... Maybe you need to flat out tell him the problem isn't you. There's one common denominator in his life, and that's him.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 One other gf 10 years ago... hmmmm... Maybe you need to flat out tell him the problem isn't you. There's one common denominator in his life, and that's him. well no that was like 5 years ago cause he's 25. but anyway, he said he's had shorter relationships since then like 3 or 4 months. u all are so great. thank u so much for taking the time to help me. i dont know what i'd do without this site. so anyway this is the new thing that happened (yeah i know this feels like a damn soap opera). anyway he called me at 6 am. i answered the phone half asleep and he said "i love u so much, more than anything." he told me what an idiot he was and how sorry he was. he was crying, he's never cried in all the time i've known him. he said he is very sorry that he made me feel bad and lost his temper. he begged me to forgive him. i was half asleep but i told him that something needs to change if we are going to stay together. we are going to have to come up with some way of dealing with money and who's paying or else our relationship is really going to fall apart. tonight when i talk to him i plan on telling him what i think the plan should be. i tried to tell him last night,and he told me that he didnt like the way i phrase things and that i sound like i'mt aking advantage of him. so i'm going to "phrase" things to the way the likes it. if he agrees to what i'm saying, we will never have another fight again.if he doesnt than i dont think our relationship is going to work. so tonight will be the test. is this a good idea? honestly he keeps changing his story. if he really doesnt consider himself to be stingy or cheap he'll listen to what i have to say and compromise. if he doesnt then i have my answer and i'm telling him i need a break from our relationship. he did sound real upset though, i've never seen him like that ever. so we'll see what happens. i'm going to be very cautious because i'm not going to have what happened to melody happen to me. its hard to let our relationship go, because when we arent fighting about money we have the BEST time together. so if this money thing can be solved and he really doesnt consider himself to be stingy and it is about the "phrasing" then we'll see how much this works.thanks so much for ur help, i really am confused about all this. i dont know if he really is cheap or this is something to do with him. he said its never happened in any of his other relationships, i honestly dont know about that. do u think that is a lie he's telling me? i dont know what to think!
norajane Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 You can certainly use this to get to know each other and deepen your relationship. If he is truly sorry about his own behavior - not just for losing his temper - but for being so stingy as well, then at least he recognizes what he is doing and doesn't want to continue. You have to get to the bottom of it, though, and find out if in his heart he really believes you are a gold digger! And you have to find out if this was just his immature reaction to "the way you said it" rather than an indication of him having a controlling nature. Ask him about his feelings about money in general, about how he felt growing up with parents who didn't take of their finances too well, whether he has fears of losing his financial security, what his financial goals are and whether he has developed a one year, 5 year plan. Try to understand where he's coming from, and see if he is also trying to understand your viewpoint and where you're coming from.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 You can certainly use this to get to know each other and deepen your relationship. If he is truly sorry about his own behavior - not just for losing his temper - but for being so stingy as well, then at least he recognizes what he is doing and doesn't want to continue. You have to get to the bottom of it, though, and find out if in his heart he really believes you are a gold digger! And you have to find out if this was just his immature reaction to "the way you said it" rather than an indication of him having a controlling nature. Ask him about his feelings about money in general, about how he felt growing up with parents who didn't take of their finances too well, whether he has fears of losing his financial security, what his financial goals are and whether he has developed a one year, 5 year plan. Try to understand where he's coming from, and see if he is also trying to understand your viewpoint and where you're coming from. thanks..thinking about this whole thing i found out something. i'm traditional. i think the man should pay and be the provider, the woman should be the caregiver. i enjoy doing things for him, cooking, picking up his apartment, emptying his dishwasher, getting his beer. and he PUTS me in that caregiving role. he says he wants me to cook for him, he asks me to get his beer, make his bed. these are all caregiver womenly roles. and i dont mind doing any of them. my mom was a homemaker and my dad was the breadwinner. now i do want to have a career and make money but i'm not going to make what he makes. EVER. so i will be a caregiver to him and some financial and he is the breadwinner. and when i do expect him to pay for me, he takes it as that i'm taking advantage of him and i'm a goldigger. and that is not the case. i'm going to tell him all this, and see what he says. i honestly love taking care of him, so in return i believe that he should take care of me as the provider because he can afford to do so.i think where i am getting confused is that he is putting me in the both the caregiver role and financially equal role. i cant/dont want to do both. so i'mgoing to ask him what he wants and find out. i want a traditional gentleman and hopefully he'll love me enough to realize this and understand. i guess every relationship i have ever had has been that way, more traditional roles. i've never ever had to pay in any other relationship. so i'm going to talk to him and see what he says. is this a good idea? i'm kind of scared.
melodymatters Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 It's a wonderful idea Mostly because you are being honest with YOURSELF. I'm a nurturer too, that does not take away from me being tough, and smart and independant. You CAN be both. And I LIKE being treated too ! I'll get the mortgage loan because I have better credit, but I want YOU to buy me presents now and then "just because" and pick up the check unless it's a special occasion and I say I want to treat you. he DOES seem to want it both ways. You never befor mentioned all the domestic things you do for him. If it was the other way around it seems like he would charge you for his services or ask for you to buy dinner because he did your laundry or whatever. Talking things out is neccesary and a great idea, As long as you are: A) being honest about your feelings and B) Speaking in nonjudgemental, non-blaming terms. He really can't tell you your feelings are " wrong" he can only say that that scenraio is not one he would be happy with and then you have your answer. I wish you all the luck !!!
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 alright so i talked to my bf. i told him that i do feel traditionally about relationships. i told him that he does put me in the caregiver role and the breadwinner role and expects me to do both. i told him i cant contribute financially to our relationship right now, but i enjoy taking care of him and doing things for him. i told him that i would make him a nice homemade dinner this weekend and rent a movie for us. he got real excited, and holy freaking cow he asked me if he could take me to a movie or out to dinner on sat night! i told him i will still contribute what i can to the relationship and pay when i can. he agreed and said he understood that i dont have money right now and that he was so sorry he wasnt more supportive. he said he loves when i take care of him and cook for him, and i love doing it. so i guess we reached a compromise. thanks for all ur help everyone, i hope this "new system" will work out for us. i'm still going to try to offer to pay when i can, but i can contribute to our relationship by doing nice things that i enjoy doing for my bf. i'm still not sure if he's just cheap or stingy, i guess we'll find out! i really dont want to end up with some cheap stingy husband. i stayed calm the entire conversation too, i'm so proud of myself! i'll keep u guys updated on everything. hopefully there will be no more fights about money. if there are, i hope u guys can be as big of a help and support as u have been so far. thank u very much!
Vera_Louise Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 I've been reading through this thread...are you sure he's not gay? He seems to like being in the ladies' role.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Posted April 11, 2007 I've been reading through this thread...are you sure he's not gay? He seems to like being in the ladies' role. LMAO..nooooooo he is DEF. not gay. i think he likes being taken care of and babied and treated to things and stuff (actually when i went home with him, he asked his mom to make him food and do things for him, just like he does for me). i just cant do it financially, the way he wants me too.
melodymatters Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Good for you laurie belle, there is hope for your guy yet !!! Please DO keep us informed and I am very proud of the way you've been handling this, I'm sure you will make a GREAT counselor ! PS. Just got off another thread that was completely diff and vera louise was accusing HER ( the OP's) BF of being gay, so while I try and stay away from the drama on these boards, I'd ignore that trouble making " gay" comment if I were you cheers sweetie !!
allina Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 It seems like you need to sit him down and say something like "I love you and I would like to see this work out, however, I need you to understand that relationships should not be based on who gives what and how much when it comes to money and I feel like this is too big of a focus for you. I am in no way trying to take advantage of you but the money obsession is your issue, not something I am doing wrong. Please realize that your views on money are not rational or normal" He seems to care about you but he needs to come to terms with some of his issues.
sunshinegirl Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 alright so i talked to my bf. i told him that i do feel traditionally about relationships. i told him that he does put me in the caregiver role and the breadwinner role and expects me to do both. i told him i cant contribute financially to our relationship right now, but i enjoy taking care of him and doing things for him. i told him that i would make him a nice homemade dinner this weekend and rent a movie for us. he got real excited, and holy freaking cow he asked me if he could take me to a movie or out to dinner on sat night! So this seems good, right? Except from the way you described it, I have two questions/concerns: (1) You said you can't contribute financially "right now." Are you (mistakenly?) setting him up to think that you will be able to contribute financially later? and maybe even up to his 50/50 standard? (2) Do you think his underlying attitude/philosophy is shifting, or will shift? He may have freaked out/cried/told you he loves you/etc. because he thinks you'd dump his ass? In other words, his show of emotion does not necessarily mean he is going to undergo the epiphany you want/need him to.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 ugh: so i talked to him again. it went ok, but i said something the "wrong way" again nd he got pissed. i told him that since i offered to pay for dinner at my friend's bday cause i invited him, it would be nice and i would love it if maybe he could PLEASE (i made sure to insert the word) treat me as well. he got pissed off and said that i was implying that i expected him to pay for me. he says that he never wants me to expect that he's going to pay for me blah blah blah. so i told him that i wasnt implying that i would expect him to pay, and he said ok and we dropped it. i dont know what his deal is. he told me never to talk about who is paying for what and he wont care. he doesnt always offer to pay for everything, so the issue is that i cant afford to offer to pay for myself when he wants to do something. so then it seems like i'm expecting him to pay. whatever we dropped it, but i dont know what his deal is. this is strange for me, because i guess i never dated anyone who didnt offer to pay for me all the time. we worked it all i out, i told him i dont expect him to pay at all and he said ok. he offered to take me out to dinner on sat. night and we left it at that. i could tell he was still pissed off when i didnt even imply anything. i took WHAT HE SAID last night, by "phrasing" it differently. so he said we just dont have any rules regarding who is going to pay and just both offer. i'll try it, hopefully we will stop this stupid bickering. grr why cant he just be normal?
amaysngrace Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 why cant he just be normal? More importantly, why don't you demand normal?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 More importantly, why don't you demand normal? lol well he said now that we just wont talk about who pays for what and we'll be ok. so we'll see!
melodymatters Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Hows THAT going to work seeing as this is his biggest issue ? Scene - "Lauiebelle and BF walk into restuarant, LB, is nervous because she knows she can't afford the check, and is also nervous because she has been forbidden to talk about the subject or he will get " pissed" or "sick" She doesn't know what to order because she only has 8 bucks on her. She doesn't enjoy the meal because she's worried the whole time. Check comes....Now what ??" yeah, good luck on this ONE !! Would not talking about money be like when he flat out told you you had to pay for half the gas and tolls to go see HIS parents ?
dropdeadlegs Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Hows THAT going to work seeing as this is his biggest issue ? Scene - "Lauiebelle and BF walk into restuarant, LB, is nervous because she knows she can't afford the check, and is also nervous because she has been forbidden to talk about the subject or he will get " pissed" or "sick" She doesn't know what to order because she only has 8 bucks on her. She doesn't enjoy the meal because she's worried the whole time. Check comes....Now what ??" yeah, good luck on this ONE !! Would not talking about money be like when he flat out told you you had to pay for half the gas and tolls to go see HIS parents ? This was my next question. With a history of insisting on paying half, or paying half of the time, how/when will you know if this subject won't be discussed anymore?
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