very happy thread finally!!!

[melodymatters]

Lauriebelle,

 

Thanks SO much for checking in and updating us even while your on your " vacation " ! Some times people post and your heart goes out to them, and then you spend weeks wondering " Whatever happened to her and that guy that was sleeping with his babysitter ?" LOL

 

you DO sound stronger, and thats a GREAT first step. Like I said, the main 2 worrisome traits are the pathological cheapness and the "walking on eggshells" feeling because otherwise your a fight causing, drama loving bitch !

 

Itr's too funny MY ex used to tell me I was an angry person who hated men. Finally after the break up, it was like " I'm a very happy person, who LOVES men, I am angry at YOU, because your an ASS, and you happen to also be a MAN !"

 

Asked my current guy of a year and a half, and he laughed and said that he didn't even begin to see those traits in me.

 

Speaking of Walmart, we always used to shop together, but pay seperately. Well we lived next door to each other ( BECAUSE he baited and switched me: we were going to move into the house next to his business together, but once I gave notice and committed, he wrote out a quickbooks type list showing how it didnt make financial sense, and it was too late, so I moved in and paid rent alone)anyways, one day, he must of just seen jesus or tried prozac, but he offered to pay for my groceries too. The cashier nearly freaked out, and was like " oh my goodness, for years,and you've always paid seperately, I got confused !"

 

SO, when the walmart cashier makes a big deal out of your long term BF buying some groceries for you, it REALLY hits home and RIPS the blinders off of your eyes !!

 

And as far as how " friends" treat each other, I often will just say "oh, ill get it" and pay if theyre just getting a soda or candy or something. But, he made you wait in line to pay for a soda !!! I'ts almost funny !!!

 

Well, you just enjoy the rest of your vacation ( though don;t be surprised if you get asked to pay for some gas or tolls on the way home, lol) and keep being strong and with your eyes wide open.

 

If the WORST thing about him is pathological cheapness, it still may work, but imho,that thriftiness tends to run heart deep.

 

Take care girlfriend !!!!

[Lauriebell82]

update about my weekend:

 

well the weekend went ok overall. besides his being a little stingy he didnt ask me to pay for gas or tolls. when we went to a rest stop i bought us some food from mcdonalds and he liked that. anyway, i dont understand what hsi big handup is. i tried to be very grateful and i told him over and over again how glad i was he had me come, and thanks for driving, ect. he liked that i think. maybe he will stop with this rediculous paying thing. i really dont understand it, and its very frustrating that everything has to be equal all the time.

 

i'm a little more sceptical about our future now that i've heard some of melody's stories. i really did show how grateful i was for him paying for this weekend, so maybe he'll start treating me more. i'm not sure what his big hang up with money is.

 

the only other thing that pissed me off this weekend, was that last night he pulled some stupid crap. maybe this is just a guy for ya, but all the girls here are going to think this is nuts. he had told me on friday that he felt uncomfortable having sex in his parents hosue and i said i understood that. so we were going to bed last night and i was so exausted. he got pissed off cause i was too tired to have sex with him. i told him that i thought that he was uncomfortable having sex in his house, and he said he'd "changed his mind". so i was real pissed and told him i was going to sleep. he got all grouchy and rolled over to go to sleep. this morning he apologized but it still pissed me off, cause he has fallen alseep on me lots of times when i've wanted to have sex and i've never complained. sometimes i dont think he appreciates the love and devotion that i give him. so i'm going to be more careful. i think our next fight is going to determine a lot. hopefully he'll get better about the stingyness, although i'm freaked out by melody's stories about how her ex didnt change.

 

so what does everyone suggest i do? i am hesitant to break up with him because i really do love him, and when we arent worried about money or anything we have the BEST time together. i've never had such a great relationship (aside from the money issue). but i know thats a huge issue.

[kribby]

Hmmm

 

Don't you feel you are learning more and more about relationships? I mean, you just said you've never had such a 'good relationship' before... maybe as you age and the more relationship experience you have it just naturally gets better and better.

 

That's what has happened in my life.

 

I feel if I had 'settled' for my ex-- which is what I think you are really doing now-- then I would never have found my wonderful and even more compatible current love.

 

My ex--used to be stingy as well-- not as bad as yours though (he was an ass in other ways

 

Don't settle.

 

The more you learn the better you are at relationships.

 

I am sure you will find someone even more compatible.

[Walk]

Even if he marries you, that money problem won't change. I heard the EXACT same phrase come out of my exh mouth with the "What's yours is mine, what's mine is yours" after marriage. HA. What a farce. It was more like "what's yours is mine, what's mine is mine".

 

Personally. I don't believe his mindset will change after marriage. What you get right now, is what you'll get after marriage. If you wait, thinking he'll magically change after he signs a slip of paper.... well... you'll be in for a heartbreak.

 

(this is coming out a bit harsh, but I'm having problems figuring out a vb.net assignment and I'm frustrated. )

 

My suggestion.. I think you need to have a discussion about his mind set regarding marriage. If he believes you are someone that he would want to marry, then why would he treat you differently after he signs a piece of paper then before? That kind of mindset will lead to problems.

 

Plus, his 'stingy-ness' shows a lack of trust in you. It implies that he believes you will take without giving unless he fights you to get what he wants. This could also be a reason he got so angry about not getting sex the other night. If he feels that he's had to force you to give him what he wants, after he feels he's been giving you what you want, then even small instances of not getting something will irritate him. So maybe there's an underlying reason for his actions? Maybe, although you're giving, it might not be in the ways he really wants? So you feel as though you're putting in extra effort, and he doesn't appreciate it... but he feels you're not, and is getting more demanding to ensure he gets something from you.

 

But I think a talk would help. Not a "You gotta change or I'm leaving", but more of a "what the hell". haha maybe not like that... but check in with him and see if he feels the same about the things you do for him. (I'm not being very clear) Like.. if my bf does the dishes he thinks he's really done something great, and I just don't put that much value on it... so although he thinks he's contributing a great deal, I feel like he didn't. So maybe see how certain actions that you do for him register on the value scale, and vice versa for you too.

 

Or maybe he's just one of those guys who values money above all else... Not sure.

[Lauriebell82]

Even if he marries you, that money problem won't change. I heard the EXACT same phrase come out of my exh mouth with the "What's yours is mine, what's mine is yours" after marriage. HA. What a farce. It was more like "what's yours is mine, what's mine is mine".

 

Personally. I don't believe his mindset will change after marriage. What you get right now, is what you'll get after marriage. If you wait, thinking he'll magically change after he signs a slip of paper.... well... you'll be in for a heartbreak.

 

(this is coming out a bit harsh, but I'm having problems figuring out a vb.net assignment and I'm frustrated. )

 

My suggestion.. I think you need to have a discussion about his mind set regarding marriage. If he believes you are someone that he would want to marry, then why would he treat you differently after he signs a piece of paper then before? That kind of mindset will lead to problems.

 

Plus, his 'stingy-ness' shows a lack of trust in you. It implies that he believes you will take without giving unless he fights you to get what he wants. This could also be a reason he got so angry about not getting sex the other night. If he feels that he's had to force you to give him what he wants, after he feels he's been giving you what you want, then even small instances of not getting something will irritate him. So maybe there's an underlying reason for his actions? Maybe, although you're giving, it might not be in the ways he really wants? So you feel as though you're putting in extra effort, and he doesn't appreciate it... but he feels you're not, and is getting more demanding to ensure he gets something from you.

 

But I think a talk would help. Not a "You gotta change or I'm leaving", but more of a "what the hell". haha maybe not like that... but check in with him and see if he feels the same about the things you do for him. (I'm not being very clear) Like.. if my bf does the dishes he thinks he's really done something great, and I just don't put that much value on it... so although he thinks he's contributing a great deal, I feel like he didn't. So maybe see how certain actions that you do for him register on the value scale, and vice versa for you too.

 

Or maybe he's just one of those guys who values money above all else... Not sure.

 

yeah i think ur right..the thing is i have talked to him about it over and over again. he always says that things have to be equal and fair. always. and he'll always turn the whole thing around on me and say i'm trying to take advantage of him for having money. and when i say well, "u have money and i dont so its hard for paying for things to be fair" i guess it does sound that i am. but thats not it!!! i dont have any idea how to get through to him that i am not trying to do that and that i honestly love him and would do anythig for him. i've told him this over and over again, but its still all about the fairness. when we had our fight he did say that he felt that he did want a give and take relationship but he felt like he was giving more than i was. so Walk what u said about him feeling like i wasnt doing enough could be what the real issue is.

 

the thing is i cant contribute financially to the relationship because i'm still in school. and i think he wants an equal financial partner, so maybe thats why he has doubts about me. (why he said he has doubts about our relationship then took me home to meet his parents a day later, is beyond me.) well if thats the case he needs to marry a cpa not a counselor. i've already tried to talk to him about it and it didnt do any good. i'm trying o contribute what i can to the relationship, but it might not be enough. i'm gonna wait till i see him next weekend and see what happens about going out and money stuff. i'm sure this thing will rear its ugly head again, and then we'll see what happens. i dont know if thats the best course of action, but he is just going to say that i'm rehatching the whole thing again (which i guess i am).

[bridget_jones]

Next time you go out to eat and it's your "turn" conveniently forget your cash and bank card. then say "Oh, hon, sorry, I don't have any money. You'll have to get this." I'd do that a lot until he gets the picture.

[Walk]

Next time you go out to eat and it's your "turn" conveniently forget your cash and bank card. then say "Oh, hon, sorry, I don't have any money. You'll have to get this." I'd do that a lot until he gets the picture.

 

Worst move you could make. She wouldn't have a leg to stand on if she attempted to defend her position regarding his obsessive need for financial equality.

 

I think she'd be better off telling him flat out that she can't, and never will be able, to meet him 50/50 financially on the relationship. I'd go incredibly logical on his a**. Do some research on her career, versus his career potential earnings. http://www.bls.gov/bls/wages.htm

 

Print it out, throw it in his face. Then I'd leave. Figure if he can't handle dating someone who is below him on wage earning's then he probably should be checking pay stubs before going out on dates (or tax returns). Or he could attempt to work within the limits of each person capabilities in order to make it "fair" to both parties. Right now, he's telling her she has to pay 30% more of her annual earnings toward expenses then he does.

 

Break it down by percentages. (I'm not great a math, so bear with me) If a person makes 12 grand a year and their yearly rent is 6 grand, then they're paying 50% of their earnings toward rent. But a guy earning 60 grand a year would only be paying like 20% of his salary. So the low income person is paying 30% more of their earnings toward housing. If he were really after "fair", then it would be divided based on annual earnings. 60/40, or 70/30. With, options to level out the playing field in other areas. Like if she cooks him a home made meal, than that's worth the value of a 30 meal. etc...

 

He's being an ass. Stand up for yourself. Otherwise, you'll regret not doing this later. I'm telling you from experience here... don't accept it when it's bothering you. If you gloss this over, it'll just get worse. Besides... Its not just for your benefit.. any woman he dates in the future will have the same issue with him. If he wants a successful relationship, then he needs to understand theirs a difference between "equal" and "fair".

[Lauriebell82]

i've tried explaining to him that our incomes arent equal therefore we cant pay equally. so the solution he came up with is for him to pay for something, then we wont do anything until i can pay the next time. which SUCKS and i hate it. so i'm not sure what to do. my best friends bday is in 2 weeks, and we are going out on a double date with her and her fiance to this kind of expensive restaurant and then to a club. i paid the last time we went out to eat, but if he pays the next time before my friends bday the i'm going to pay to pay.

 

i think this whole thing is going to ocme down to who pays for what on my friends bday. i was going to ask him to pay for dinner and i'll pay for drinks at the club (its like a drink special $1 drinks). i need to have some extra money to buy my friend drinks on her bday. if he freaks out and says all the crap about "how he's paying more" than i'm going to tell him that i need a little breather from our relationship to think things over. i'm sick of this paying for some crap and i refuse to live my life like this. i will not fight about money, and i know this is going to keep happening. as much as i love him, i will not do this. therefore, as much as it hurts me if he does pull this crap again than i'm not going to break up with him, but tell him i need some time to think. then i'm seriously going to re-evaluate our relationship and see if he's the right person for me.

 

so do u think this is a good idea? i am not going to bring it up yet, cause we are doing really well and we had a good weekend together. i have a ton of work do in school this week too, so i cant handle fighting about it right now. am i doing the right thing?

[allina]

i've tried explaining to him that our incomes arent equal therefore we cant pay equally. so the solution he came up with is for him to pay for something, then we wont do anything until i can pay the next time. which SUCKS and i hate it. so i'm not sure what to do. my best friends bday is in 2 weeks, and we are going out on a double date with her and her fiance to this kind of expensive restaurant and then to a club. i paid the last time we went out to eat, but if he pays the next time before my friends bday the i'm going to pay to pay.

 

 

 

so do u think this is a good idea? i am not going to bring it up yet, cause we are doing really well and we had a good weekend together. i have a ton of work do in school this week too, so i cant handle fighting about it right now. am i doing the right thing?

 

The whole not hanging out till you can pay for something is a RETARDED idea, more and more he just seems crazy, not only like he doesn't get it but seriously sort of crazy.

 

I don't like advising people to end relationships on these forums but this guy just doesn't get that this is not how a relationship works, he's so stuck on the money and he's irrational.

 

Each time you bring this up he comes up with yet another money/payment arrangement, not addressing the actual issue.

[Walk]

I agree with Allina. His obsession over splitting money is harmful. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably see it as a control issue, which would tick me off. But sure seems like he's attempting to control when and how often you two go out by forcing you to divy up your share. He gets to deny you (taking you out) and place the blame for his rejection on your shoulders. He gets to feel like he's the great guy because he's willing to take you out, but it's "your fault" you two didn't get to go out.

 

I'd be pissed.

 

Aside from all that though.. I think there's a couple things that are most important if you're looking toward long term . Can he comprimise in ways that are fair to BOTH parties? Does he take your suggestions and feelings into account? Does he actively seek your participation in the decision making/comprimise process?

 

All the rest of the problems are just symptoms at that point.

[bridget_jones]

If I were her, every time it was my turn to pay, I would pay but he wouldn't be getting any that night...or the rest of the weekend.

[allina]

If I were her, every time it was my turn to pay, I would pay but he wouldn't be getting any that night...or the rest of the weekend.

 

Why? That's so dumb it's further manipulation, further devision of who gives what, it's just silly. Unfortunately it seems like she can't change the way he feels about money, but trying to play some weird sex games is only going to complicate an already troubled relationship.

[Lauriebell82]

I agree with Allina. His obsession over splitting money is harmful. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably see it as a control issue, which would tick me off. But sure seems like he's attempting to control when and how often you two go out by forcing you to divy up your share. He gets to deny you (taking you out) and place the blame for his rejection on your shoulders. He gets to feel like he's the great guy because he's willing to take you out, but it's "your fault" you two didn't get to go out.

 

yeah i'm starting to realize that he is being controlling. he tries to turn everything around on me, and make me feel guilty. when we fight, he says that i started it by flipping out on him and causing "drama". he then lectures me that i could have handled myself better, and i should have stayed calm. then he says it has ruined his day and made him feel sick, so then i end up apologizing and feeling guilty. then when i cant pay for something to go out, he says that i'm not "giving" enough to our relationship, and that he is doing it all. i mean i'm all for contributing to our relationship, but this is crazy. the thing with the fighting and money issue are the only issues that i really have. i just dont know how to solve either one of them.

[Lauriebell82]

If I were her, every time it was my turn to pay, I would pay but he wouldn't be getting any that night...or the rest of the weekend.

 

yeah i would never do that. i'm not the manipulative type, i'd rather talk about issues. after all i'm going to be a therapist in a year.

[Walk]

the thing with the fighting and money issue are the only issues that i really have. i just dont know how to solve either one of them.

 

Does he have really low self-esteem or something?

 

I think, if he's not doing anything big enough to make you blow your top (yet..), then maybe you can try some "positive rewards" to break down his barrier on the money issue. Maybe sex him up, then as soon as you two cuddle up, tell him he owes you a dinner. If he blows his top, then it's definitely time to leave the guy.

 

If he doesn't get upset, and agree's to it.. then I'd keep rewarding him for good behavior. And be vocal about why you're rewarding him. I'm doing this because you did this. So he links the two.

 

Just an alternative if you want to try it. This is assuming you enjoy the sex also, so it's not like you would be doing anything you wouldn't have wanted to.

[bridget_jones]

yeah i would never do that. i'm not the manipulative type, i'd rather talk about issues. after all i'm going to be a therapist in a year.

 

It's not manipulative, why should he be rewarded w/sex when he treats you like crap? why would you WANT to sleep with him? UGH!

You're in grad school to be a therapist???

[Lauriebell82]

well in grad school to be a counselor..kind of the same thing. actually i'm so pissed right now that i dont really care about sleeping with him until he stops this b.s.

 

i'm going to wait to talk to him about it when i go home on thursday night and then try going into it about my friends bday. this is rediculous and i'm sick of it. i honestly dont even want to talk to him cause i'm so pissed off. i guess i didnt realize how bad he was getting until recently. its just started getting worse over the past month of two. he has this huge obsession with having everything be equal all the time. so whatever his reaction to me talking to him about paying for the date on my friend's bday and i'll go from there.

 

i dont know what made him like this, it def. wasn't his parents. i dont know what his deal is.

[bridget_jones]

I go to a counselor. He helps a lot.

This guy is making me mad. You would think during your last years as a student working hard and not much money he would want to pay to show his support.

oh well you seem to be very level-headed about it all.

[Lauriebell82]

I go to a counselor. He helps a lot.

This guy is making me mad. You would think during your last years as a student working hard and not much money he would want to pay to show his support.

oh well you seem to be very level-headed about it all.

 

yeah thats what normal guys would think. he actually asks me if i can pay for something when we go out. like i had already told him i would treat him to lunch, and we sit down and go to order and he goes "ur treating right?" i was really pissed off that he even said that and i didnt even feel like paying after that. thats stupid and rude. i paid for it though cuase he probably would have freaked out if i told him i couldnt pay at the restaurant. what the hell is wrong with him? does he have some sort of disorder? thats not normal behavior for a boyfriend.

[Lauriebell82]

i'v decided i'm going to talk to him about the whole thing by saying i need to save money for my friend's bday. how do i talk to him about this without sounding like i'm a money-hungry gold digger just after his money? cause everytime i try to ask him why he is doing this he says i'm trying to take advantage of him and mooch off him because he has money.

[melodymatters]

Ok, well start out by killing him with kindness. Say something along the lines of " Sweetheart, if i was really a gold digger and money was all I cared about, I could find somone a LOT richer than a CPA. I'm with you because your sweet and handsome and we have fun and I love you, but your score keeping on who pays, is not normal honey, I've dated other people, my friends and family have boyfriends and husbands, and I don't know ANYONE who is as " tit for tat" as you are and it really hurts me"

 

If he starts the " your causing drama, I'm getting sick" CRAP, then quite calmly point out that you are calmly expressing your feelings and if he can't " hear" them with out getting upset, that is another issue that hurts you and makes you wonder about a future.

 

Stay as calm as if you were a therapist dealing with a true psycho, stay objective and emotionally removed a step or two.

 

If this whole pattern just loops around again. The tell him you need a break to think about the relationship.

 

Either that will scare him ( most likely temporarily) into behaving better, or he will act like an ass making you feel even worse about him, until you start feeling.....nothing,......nothing at all....

[Lauriebell82]

thanks melody, u've been such a big help to me. i hope u all can continue to help me with this because it is very difficult. i could use all the advice and support i can get!

 

i'm very nervous to talk to him about this. i dont have any idea what he is going to say. he said before that he thinks if he pays for more things in our relationship than i do then its not "fair" or "equal" and that he's losing out on the deal. in reality i'm the one loosing out cause i'm paying for stuff i cant afford, and i'm actually saving him money cause he's paying for less than what he can afford. i'm going to try to explain all this to him, i've tried before and he just says that i'm trying to take advantage of the fact that he has money.

 

i'm not sure this is going to do any good, i'm getting more and more upset and i cant think about anything else. its really stressing me out and i feel like crap. i'm getting to the point where i'm not even happy. i was soooo head over heels in love with him, i couldnt imagine ever being with anyone else. i'm still in love with him, but my opinion of him is starting to change, and i know thats not good. thanks for helping me, it feels really good to get my feelings out and have people help and support me.

[norajane]

Did he grow up poor or something? Sometimes that makes people really cheap and penny-pinching when they become adults.

 

Does he have a lot of student loans or other debts he's paying off? That could also be why he's so careful with the cash.

 

Neither of those things justifies his attitude, though. He should understand that as a student, you don't have nearly the money he does to contribute to dates.

 

Perhaps you can tell him that you understand he wants things to be split completely down the middle, but you really can't afford to do that since you only make x amount per month. As a solution, tell him you'd like to suggest planning dates that do not involve money from now on until you have a real job and real income. And ask if he'd be willing to pay for half your gas every time you go to visit him for the weekend.

[melodymatters]

lauriebelle,

 

Glad to help, wish I had somone to talk with before I wasted 6 yrs of my life with MY ex ! I know it is a tough subject to bring up with your guy, and in a way, you've been TRAINED by him not too ! ( "I bring up something he doesn't want to talk about, then he turns it around and now I'm a gold digging, drama queen, who is affecting his HEALTH" ) You study the psychosocial scienes, doesn't this sound like behavoir modification on HIS part ?

 

LIFE, is NOT equal ! I cook more my partner cleans more. In past relationships when I had more money, I paid for more, I wasn't going to deprive myself of sushi because my BF had a minimum wage job ! And the reverse was always true too : dated a doctor who wouldn't LET me take my wallet out, as I was a single parent theatre producer and he was a doctor who made quadruple what I made. It's about enjoying each others company, not creating a friggen spread sheet !

 

So, on to solutions, because your gut ( and we here on LS) are already telling you there is something rotton in denmark.

 

If you don't feel like you can talk calmly about it, write him a letter and tell him you want him to read it and then discuss it calmly because it is an issue that is very important to you.

 

If he insists that things MUST be "fair and equal", then your going to have to play hardball. You can either say " this money issue is making me so sick, I refuse to play these games anymore, I will never again let you pay for anything, and I will only do things with you when we go totally dutch" and then be unavailible due to your finances, suggest mcdonalds or a walk in the park, find free events in the newspaper. When he gets sick of it and wants to go to a movie or dinner, oh well, he set it up this way.

 

Or, ( and yeah, your playing mind games, but sometimes you need to, to point out the utter ridiculousness of the situation, and i have done this successfully with my 13 yr old daughter throughout the years)

 

You get out a legal pad, and if you get him a glass of water, you write it down and say " ok, one glass of water, walked 10 ft, you owe me a similar favor, and I will not do any more favors until we are " even" so that things can be "fair and equal"

 

In this approach you are trying to make him feel like an ass, but you stay totally focused and business like.

 

Odds are he will get angry and call you MORE names " your playing games, your being immature and spiteful" and again, you will need to stay calm and say " you set the ground rules on our spending and my being allowed to express discontent with said rules, you want it this way ? You've got it"

 

If he "leaves" you over this, cry a little, get drunk and then start dating again soon, so that you can see how great it is to be treated with respect and kindness once again !!!

 

Feel free to PM me, and I'll even give you my # if you want to talk more on this.

 

I really feel for you !!!! Good luck sister, hang tough !!!

[Lauriebell82]

Did he grow up poor or something? Sometimes that makes people really cheap and penny-pinching when they become adults.

 

Does he have a lot of student loans or other debts he's paying off? That could also be why he's so careful with the cash.

 

Neither of those things justifies his attitude, though. He should understand that as a student, you don't have nearly the money he does to contribute to dates.

 

Perhaps you can tell him that you understand he wants things to be split completely down the middle, but you really can't afford to do that since you only make x amount per month. As a solution, tell him you'd like to suggest planning dates that do not involve money from now on until you have a real job and real income. And ask if he'd be willing to pay for half your gas every time you go to visit him for the weekend.

 

well yeah sort of..his parents dont have that much money because they spend more than they can afford. he said they dont manage money very well and usually dont have much of it. so maybe thats why he is so crazy about it. yeah he watches his money, but he's not sooooo cheap to himself, just me. he even helps out his parents by giving them money. but for some reason he just wont cut me a break.

 

yes he has bills and student loans, but i know exactly how much he makes and what his bills are. he makes enough to cover paying for a few extra dates here and there. he just doesnt want to. so his whole solution is to not go out and do anything until i can afford to pay for the next date. he also came up with this rediculous rule that when i come to visit him he drives everywhere and when he comes to visit me i drive him everywhere. i honestly dont care about the gas to come see him, i want to because i love him. i want to pay for things because i love him, but i cant afford it and he can. so i think he is just being downright selfish in the fact that he refuses to pay for things that he can afford to pay for more than i can.