Answer Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 If I could be serious for just a few minutes. The follwing topic is nothing to be laughed at. This is a serious issue. I think it's a topic that is very one-sided and should be seen through the eyes of the other side of the story. I want you to a father and a mother, who, on most evenings, at about 10 o'clock, send their 11 year old daughter off to the local shop to buy a half-gallon of milk. The journey to the shop and back involves walking along a deserted pathway through heavy woodland. The daughter usually wears a mini-skirt and has a bare tummy. One evening, the daughter is sexually assaulted by a stranger. Do the parents bear any responsibility at all for this incident? Should they be criticised in any way at all? If your answer is 'NO', then I don't agree with you. If your answer is 'YES' then, presumably, you recognise that adults have some responsibility when it comes to preventing a child from doing something 'stupid'. It follows that you also recognise that adults have some responsibility when it comes to preventing themselves from doing something as 'dumb'. The responsibility for doing something stupid should not disappear just because a female reaches the age of 21. The responsibility that once resided in her parents should now reside in her! It follows that were this girl to have been 21 years old, instead of 11, then she would have had some responsibility when it came to preventing herself from doing something 'stupid'. But our sex-discriminatory feminist laws say not! And women seem increasingly to take no responsibility for anything they do. Now, the case described above is of an 'unprovoked' sexual assault by a complete stranger. And the 'responsibility' factor for a 21 year old girl in this situation is minimal indeed. But it is not insignificant. After all, if the parents of an 11 year old in this situation would have DESERVED SOME CONSIDERABLE REBUKE, then it follows that an adult who had put herself into a similar situation would also have DESERVED SOME CONSIDERABLE REBUKE. In other words, a woman who has put herself in that situation should take some responsibility for the events that happen. Furthermore, most sexual assaults do not occur between complete strangers. They mostly occur between people who are familiar with each other. There is, therefore, some further significant degree of control with regard to the actions and reactions that take place between the men and women involved in them. In these cases, therefore, women should bear much, much more responsibility for what happens 'to them' than when such things come 'out of the blue' through the actions of a stranger. There is wholesale confusion in the general public regarding the matter of 'responsibility' for what might happen. Typically, the invalid argument goes something like this: If a man walks around flashing his money - or perhaps leaves a wad of it by an open window - there is still no justification for a criminal to rob him. Therefore, it is argued, that the man bears no responsibility for being robbed. But these two things are completely unrelated. There is indeed no moral justification for robbing him, but it does not follow that he bears no responsibility for his ill-considered actions. Indeed, the law - and the insurance companies - recognise this when they assess any losses due to theft. The more irresponsible are the victims of theft with regard to looking after their own property, the less will the victims be compensated. And the same should be true with regard to sexual assault. As another example, if a white man goes up to a black man, and says that black should still be slaves, it would not be at all surprising if he got bopped on the nose. In other words, we recognise that people have some responsibility for the way in which people react to them. On a similar note, there is no moral 'justification' for getting cancer. Yet smokers who get lung cancer clearly bear some responsibility for what happens to them. And so it is that if women disregard the real world in which they live, and simply ignore the realities out there, then they are not only behaving irresponsibly, but they should expect less sympathy, and less redress, when things go wrong. Furthermore, despite the claims of feminists who consistently argue that women should bear no responsibility at all for sexual assaults, it is clearly the case that women, by their behaviour and by their dress, do send out messages regarding their attitudes towards sexual approaches. For example, if a woman at a nightclub is wearing hardly anything then she is making a statement about her attitude toward, let's say, being touched in a sexual manner by a man. At the very least, she is saying that should some such thing occur she is very unlikely to be very worried about it in comparison to a woman who is not dressed in such a way. This is NOT to say that a man is justified in touching her, but the notion that she has absolutely no responsibility with regard to her clothing and the message it sends out is utter nonsense.
Trialbyfire Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Okay. Remind me to kick some guy in the nuts the next time I see one in a speedo with a 70" belly hanging over it. It's his fault for looking so disgusting. By the same token, the next time I see a male cyclist wearing lycra who has a nice rear-end, especially at 11:00 p.m. at night, I'll just walk up and grab his butt and have my way with him by gunpoint, 'cause it's his fault for dressing in this manner.
Mr. Lucky Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 By the same token, the next time I see a male cyclist wearing lycra who has a nice rear-end, especially at 11:00 p.m. at night, I'll just walk up and grab his butt and have my way with him by gunpoint, 'cause it's his fault for dressing in this manner. I can't get there before 11:30 tonite Mr. Lucky
RecordProducer Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Do the parents bear any responsibility at all for this incident? Yes, because they should know that there are all kinds of crazy, evil maniacs out there who love to hurt people in order to please their violent, retarded, and very sick minds. It's not the parents' fault that these monsters who don't deserve to walk this earth exist, but yes, they should fear the garbage of our society. But our sex-discriminatory feminist laws say not! And women seem increasingly to take no responsibility for anything they do. Women are not responsible for being cute and for being victims of some heavy criminals that have no morals, no self-control, and no brains at all. Indeed if all these monsters could be locked or killed (that would be the best), no woman would ever take responsibilty for being raped. I strongly advise all women to carry guns and murder whoever touches them after they said NO, sreaned, and defended themselves. If some slimebag can't control his disturbed self, then I can't control my gun. I will be very provoked to shoot and I will gladly take the responsibility of self-defense. I can't wait for the law to put the blame on women so we can start shooting the rapists and molesters... if courts won't put them in jail.
StaringContest Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Okay. Remind me to kick some guy in the nuts the next time I see one in a speedo with a 70" belly hanging over it. It's his fault for looking so disgusting. I strongly advise all women to carry guns and murder whoever touches them after they said NO, sreaned, and defended themselves. If some slimebag can't control his disturbed self, then I can't control my gun. I will be very provoked to shoot and I will gladly take the responsibility of self-defense. I can't wait for the law to put the blame on women so we can start shooting the rapists and molesters... if courts won't put them in jail. Great posts.
norajane Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 It may be foolish to walk alone at night, but it's not illegal, last time I checked. Rape and assault, on the other hand, are illegal.
Trialbyfire Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 I can't get there before 11:30 tonite Mr. Lucky Ha...guilty as charged...
quankanne Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 why the hell is a little kid being asked to run down to the corner store that late for a carton of milk, especially tarted up like that? The parents are negligent for putting their daughter into an unsafe situation by sending her to the store in the first place.
boshemia Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 *growls* Not all girls who are raped are dressed up as tarts, most women who are attacked by strangers are actually wearing sweats or other easy to remove clothing. Joggers are a favorite target. A good portion of them are not attacked while putting themselves in dangerous conditions, they are sleeping in their beds. In the laundry room of their own apartment building... many of them don't even happen at night. That's what people want to believe because it makes them feel all safe and snuggly in their own little world. I thought it couldn't happen to me until it did... I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt, I had a belt on at the time which slowed the man down. I was wearng combat boots. I had known the man for nearly 15 years. So who really was responsible for that night? Don't think I haven't gone over it again and again in the past five years. Normally I would have been drinking, I wasn't that night. I said no, and I said it clearly, loudly and repeatedly. Yes, I did feel responsible for a long time. It has taken me many hours of therapy to give credit where credit is due. No matter what I did or said that night, I said no... and I meant it. Most girls who are raped do. Who is responsible? He is, 100% from the moment I said no and he took control... he was. Some more statistics about rape... (I have many of them...) How Often Does Rape Happen to Women? One in Four college women report surviving rape (15%) or attempted rape (12%) since their fourteenth birthday. (1) In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime. (2) In a typical academic year, 3% of college women report surviving rape or attempted rape. This does not include the summer, when many more rapes occur. (3) In the year 2000, 246,000 women survived rape and sexual assault. This computes to 28 women every hour. (4) A survey of high school students found that one in five had experienced forced sex (rape). Half of these girls told no one about the incident. (5) Rape is common worldwide, with relatively similar rates of incidence across countries, with 19%-28% of college women reporting rape or attempted rape in several countries. In many countries, survivors are treated far worse than in the U.S. (6) Are Men Raped? 3% of college men report surviving rape or attempted rape as a child or adult. (3) In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 4% of men answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" (2) Who Are The Perpetrators? 99% of people who rape are men, 60% are Caucasian. (7) Between 62% (4) and 84% (1) of survivors knew their attacker. 8% of men admit committing acts that meet the legal definition of rape or attempted rape. Of these men who committed rape, 84% said that what they did was definitely not rape. (1) More than one in five men report "becoming so sexually aroused that they could not stop themselves from having sex, even though the woman did not consent." (8) 35% of men report at least some degree of likelihood of raping if they could be assured they wouldn't be caught or punished. (9) One out of every 500 college students is infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. (10) First-year students in college tend to believe more rape myths than seniors. (11) Sexual assault offenders were substantially more likely than any other category of violent criminal to report experiencing physical or sexual abuse as children. (7) In one study, 98% of men who raped boys reported that they were heterosexual. (12) Who Are The Survivors? 41% of college women who are raped were virgins at the time. (1) 42% of rape survivors told no one about the rape. (1) 41% of women who are raped expect to be raped again. (1) False reports of rape are rare, according to the FBI, occurring only 8% of the time. (13) Females aged 16-19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. (4) Rape survivors report defining their experience in many different ways. ¼ define it as rape, ¼ think it was a crime but did not know it was rape, ¼ believe it was serious sexual abuse but did not know it was a crime, and ¼ report not feeling victimized by the experience. (14) Circumstances of Rape. 57% of rapes happen on dates. (1) 75% of the men and 55% of the women involved in acquaintance rapes were drinking or taking drugs just before the attack. (1) About 70% of sexual assault survivors reported that they took some form of self-protective action during the crime. The most common technique was to resist by struggling or chase and try to hold the attacker. Of those survivors who took protective action, over half believed it helped the situation, about 1/5 believed that it made the situation worse or simultaneously worse and better. (7) 84% of rape survivors tried unsuccessfully to reason with the man who raped her. (1) 55% of gang rapes on college campuses are committed by fraternities, 40% by sports teams, and 5% by others. (15) Approximately 40% of sexual assaults take place in the survivor's home. About 20% occur in the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative. 10% occur outside, away from home. About 8% take place in parking garages. (7) More than half of all rape and sexual assault incidents occurred within one mile of the survivor's home or in her home. (7) What Happens After the Rape? In a study done in the 1980s, 5% of rape survivors went to the police. (1) Throughout the last 10 years, the National Crime Victimization Survey has reported that approximately 30% of rape survivors report the incident to the police. (4) Of those rapes reported to the police (which is 1/3 or less to begin with), only 16% result in prison sentences. Therefore, approximately 5% of the time, a man who rapes ends up in prison, 95% of the time he does not. (4) 42% of rape survivors had sex again with the rapist. (1) 30% of rape survivors contemplate suicide after the rape. (1) 82% of rape survivors say the rape permanently changed them. (1) The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. (17) Non-genital physical injuries occur in approximately 40% of rape cases. (18) Rape survivors often experience long-term symptoms of chronic headaches, fatigue, sleep disturbance, recurrent nausea. (19) Rape survivors often experience eating disorders and make suicide attempts after being raped. In addition, after being raped, survivors are 2 ½ times more likely than the average woman to have a substance abuse problem. (20, 21, 22) What Does The Men's Program Do About This? The Men's Program has been shown to significantly decrease men's belief in rape myths by 50% after seeing the program. (23) 75% of high risk men who see The Men's Program report being less likely to rape immediately after, and seven months after seeing The Men's Program. (24) Men who see "The Men's Program" report a statistically significant decrease in their rape myth acceptance and in their likelihood of raping immediately after and seven months after seeing the program. This decline lasts longer than that of any other program evaluated in the published research literature today. (24, 25) References 1 Warshaw, R. (1994). I never called it rape. New York: HarperCollins Publishers. 2 Douglas, K. A. et al. (1997). Results from the 1995 national college health risk behavior survey. Journal of American College Health, 46, 55-66. 3 Tjaden, P. & Thoennes, N. (1998). Prevalence, incidence, and consequences of violence against women: Findings from the national violence against women survey, 2-5, Research in Brief, Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice, US Department of Justice. 4 Rennison, C. M. (2001). National crime victimization survey, criminal victimization 2000: Changes 1999-2000 with trends 1993-2000, Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCJ 187007 5 Davis, T.C, Peck G. Q., Storment, J. M. (1993). Acquaintance rape and the high school student. Journal of Adolescent Health, 14, 220-224. 6 Koss, M.P., Hiese, L. and Russo, N.F. (1994). The global health burden of rape. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 18, 509-537. 7 Greenfeld, L.A. (1997). Sex offenses and offenders: An analysis of data on rape and sexual assault, Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics. 8 Peterson, S.A. and Franzese, B. (1987). Correlates of college men's sexual abuse of women. Journal of College Student Personnel, 28, 223-228. 9 Malamuth, N. M. (1981). Rape proclivity among males. Journal of Social Issues, 37, 138- 157. 10 National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. Rape fact sheet. Atlanta: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 11 Gray, N.B., Palileo, G.J., and Johnson, G.D. (1993). Explaining rape victim blame: A test of attribution theory. Sociological Spectrum, 13, 377-392. 12 Sexual Abuse of Boys, Journal of the American Medical Association, December 2, 1998. 13 Federal Bureau of Investigation. (1995) Uniform crime reports. Washington, D.C.: United States Department of Justice. 14 Koss, M. (1992). Rape on campus: Facts and measures. Planning for Higher Education, 20, 21-28. 15 O'Sullivan, C. (1991). Acquaintance gang rape on campus. In A. Parrot and L. Bechhofer (Eds.) Acquaintance rape: The hidden crime. New York: John Wiley and Sons. 140-156. 16 Kilpatrick, D. G., Edmunds, C.N. and Seymour, A.K. (1992) Rape in America: A report to the nation. National Victim Center. 17 Homes, M. M., Resnick, H.S., Kilpatrick, D. G. and Best, C. L. (1996). Rape related pregnancy: Estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, 175, 320-324. 18 Koss, M.P. and Heslet, L. (1992). Somatic consequences of violence against women. Archives of Family Medicine, 1, 53-59. 19 Eby, K. K., Campbell, J.C., Sullivan, C.M., and Davidson, W.S. (1995). Health effects of experiences of sexual violence for women with abusive partners. Health Care for Women International. 16 (6), 563-576. 20 Kilpatrick, D.G., Best, C.L., Veronen, L.J., Amick, A.E., Villeponteaux, L.A. and Ruff, G.A. (1985). Mental health correlates of criminal victimization: A random community survey. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 53 (6) 866-873. 21 Resnick, H.S., Acierno, R., and Kilpatrick, D.G. (1997). Health impact of interpersonal violence 2: Medical and mental health outcomes. Behavioral Medicine, 23, 65-78. 22 Kilpatrick, D.G., Acierno, R., Resnick, H.S., Saunders, B. E., and Best, C.L. (1997). A 2- year longitudinal analysis of the relationships between violent assault and substance use in women. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 65(5), 834-847. 23 Foubert, J.D. and Marriott, K.A. (1997). Effects of a sexual assault peer education program on men's belief in rape myths. Sex Roles, 36, 259-268. 24 Foubert, J.D. (2000). The longitudinal effects of a rape-prevention program on fraternity men's attitudes, behavioral intent, and behavior. The Journal of American College Health, 48, 158-163. 25 Schewe, P. A. (1999). Guidelines for developing rape-prevention and risk-reduction interventions: Lessons from evaluation research. Paper presented to the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault. refs and sources kept intact.
Author Answer Posted April 2, 2007 Author Posted April 2, 2007 Some questions you might have asked, that I have my answers to. QUESTION: With women being assaulted, are you talking about fault... or responsibility? If a woman goes to a party wearing a very short skirt and flirting with everyone, then goes with a man to a secluded area and makes out with him, and he rapes her... it's quite possible she could've prevented that. She put herself in an unsafe position. But does she deserve to be rebuked? She was raped... is being raped not 'punishment' enough for her behavior? Did she somehow FORCE the man to rape her? No - HE chose to rape her. ANSWER: You are purposefully oversimplifying the typical 'rape' . Nevertheless, my point in that article was that if women behave stupidly, then they deserve less sympathy should something bad happen. And if, for example, they wander about the place showing off all their bits then they should not be too surprised to find that some guy might respond to them. And the fact that women know that these things are more likely to occur if they are sexually provocative then the fact that they carry on regardless suggests that they are not very concerned about such events. That is the message they are sending out. As such, the law should reflect this lesser concern - this message - when deciding what level of negative impact any assault might have had, AND when deciding any punishment. As it is, women seem to argue that even the most trivial of 'assaults' - no matter how gentle - is the equivalent of death! And, further, that this is true for every woman in every circumstance! This is blatantly preposterous. And are you telling me that when, for example, a woman sits with her legs apart it makes no difference to her 'message' whether she is wearing a short skirt and thongs or a pair of trousers? Surely not. In other words, you would agree that her clothing MIGHT colour her message. Well, if this is the case, then her clothing is relevant! QUESTION: If a man wanders alone into a dangerous area where gangs are known to operate, and is brutally beaten... should he be told it's his fault because he shouldn't have been acting so unsafely? ANSWER: If a man knows that he is doing something that is likely to lead to an unhappy circumstance, then he deserves less sympathy should that happen. People must bear some responsibility for the outcomes of their actions. This is the only way in which the world can operate properly. Indeed, insurance companies will not insure your goods if you do not take proper care to secure them. And I imagine that if you keep going up to black people and saying that all blacks should still be slaves, I doubt that any judge will be very sympathetic towards you over the occasional beatings that you might receive. He will assume that you bear some responsibility for what has happened to you. And, in my view, the same should be true when it comes to matters of sex-assault. It is all a question of degree. Many women, however, seem to wish to take no responsibility for their behaviours. They seem to think that they should be able to flaunt their sexuality all over the place - in order to incite men - and then they think that they have the right to claim that they are victims when some men respond to them in a manner which is absolutely consistent with the message that they, themselves, have been sending out. In my view, women who set out to entice men sexually bear more responsibility for sexual assaults against them than do women who do not set out to entice men sexually. And this should be reflected in the law. QUESTION: Why should a woman NOT have the right to wear what she pleases? ANSWER: For the same reason men do not go to work with their dicks hanging out of their trousers. I tell you what; try wearing a Nazi helmet whenever you go out. See if other women agree with your right to wear what you want. Furthermore, since you are soooooooo concerned about rape, should you not be advising women to dress more carefully, rather than promoting the opposite? QUESTION: Are men such animals that if they see a woman dressed provocatively, they'll have no choice but to rape her? ANSWER: That is a stupid question. And so, ... Why do women think that they are entitled to foist their sexuality on to every passing member of the public? Don't women see that flagrantly enticing men sexually might bring about consequences? What makes women think that they have the right to overtly sexually stimulate men who happen to be in the vicinity whereas if men did a similar thing in response - perhaps with their hands - they could be prosecuted? When women stick out their sexual organs uninvited into men's vision then this is not much different from men sticking out their hands uninvited for a grope. After all, in both cases they are merely trying to elicit a sexual response in the other party in the best way that they know how. Let me put it this way. You do not have the right to wind me up sexually at your convenience - particularly so if I would get into trouble for responding even marginally to your enticement; i.e. to what I might see as your 'request'. FINAL NOTE: We all have to accept that in order to safeguard our liberties, we have to tolerate many dysfunctional and/or unstable beings in our society, as well as those who are temporarily 'unbalanced' - for one reason or another. The alternative, in practice, is truly horrible. And, of course, some 20% of males have very low IQs. As such, I think that women are - as seems typical these days - being INCREDIBLY selfish if they believe that they are entitled to swirl up the passions of whomsoever they wish and then escape all responsibility for any negative consequences that might arise from ending up with the wrong kind of attention. In a nutshell: People who go out of their way to provoke "an attack" are less deserving - should an attack materialise - than those who do not. Most people would agree with this. But women see themselves as so superior that they think they should be above such things. And they think that they should be able to provoke men - all men - as much as they like - and then take no responsibility!
Leoni Posted April 2, 2007 Posted April 2, 2007 Question: If a man walks around with his underwear showing above the tops of his jeans, is it okay for every passerby to give him a wedgie? Answer: Yes, it's his own fault for revealing his underwear, therefore should bear the brunt of his own lack of modesty.
Motor35 Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 I think I am annoyed by this post. Is Answer suggesting that women that dress suggestively are asking to be raped?!?!
crazy_grl Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Hey Answer, please get some therapy. The backward logic and twisted nature of your statements makes me want to vomit.
boshemia Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 The first thing you should understand about rape is that rape is not about sex. Rapists report that the most important thing to them was vulnerability, not appearance. They do not report sex as being the primary motive for the rape, but nonsexual needs for power, domination, and control. To humiliate, degrade, and in some cases the desire to inflict pain. The main difference between men who rape, and men who don't is that men who rape usually regard women with contempt, victims are not seen as people but rather as objects. They don't really view it as rape, but more of a male right, even a duty. The feeling of putting a woman in her "proper" place. Your #1 Scenario rarely happens. Over 70% of rapes were planned prior to the attack, leaving out a great deal of the miniskirt and tube top mythology. Women are expected to be feminine, society does nothing but sell us back our sexuality by promoting people like Paris Hilton as the ideal. Then we get penalized in a rape because we were wearing too much makeup or a tight shirt? This whole stinking world is about marketing, and how we market ourselves can make us or break us, we are expected to look good, just not TOO good. #2 What do you mean by less sympathy anyhow? I don't know what kind of sympathy you think we get, People aren't dropping sympathy baskets off at our doors, nobody is paying our bills, we get absolutely nothing for the effort. The people you would think can be counted on the most in your time of need are rarely there. In fact suddenly it seems like even our closest friends are avoiding us, like rape is somehow contagious and they don't want to catch it. The police interviewed us and made us remember crap we were trying hard to forget, only to return to us with some lame "Well it's your word against his" story. DA's don't like to get their hands dirty, Cops don't like dealing with rapes, there is a ton of red tape and in the end there is only a 1 in 17 chance that you will ever see a tiny bit of justice. Even better since most of them are people we knew before the attack we get to run into them walking down the street, they know they have gotten away with it and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Even when he sits in his vehicle for hours just watching us, apparently until he "actually" hurts us they can't do a damn thing. Even if it does go to court... here's what happens. 61% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police. Those rapists, of course, never serve a day in prison according to a statistical average of the past five years. If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made. If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution. If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction. If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail. So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison. Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists — 1 out of 16 — will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free. So under you scenario, lets say... oh, 50% of those women were dressed in a provocative manner and throwing themselves at guys prior to the rape. Leaving 31 out of 32 rapists out on the street makes me feel much safer, how bout you? AS for #3, Women AREN'T allowed to wear what they please. Walk through the park on a summer afternoon and you will (hopefully) find no men with their dicks hanging out, but you will find them quite often in shorts with a bare chest. Women actually get prosecuted for trying out that same outfit, even if they are breastfeeding a child with most of their chests covered. #4? Where the hell have you been hanging out, in a strip club? So lets be fair, you seem to think the men have no control over being enticed by seeing "women stick out their sexual organs uninvited into men's vision" so lets say that same woman weighs about 350 pounds, does the man still have no control over how excited he gets? There is only one way to prevent rape, when a woman says no she means no... plain and simple. No always means no. What is your issue with rape? I'm just curious, but you seem to be taking a rather hostile position on the matter. I tend to do that now too, but I have been personally affected by it... but why are you so concerned?
a4a Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Yep, those old ladies that get raped in their own homes are really asking for it too! Wearing those snug fitting house coats, seductively sucking on prunes, while eyeballing Wheel of Fortune with their draperies drawn back so passerbys can see right in......... yep they are just begging for it! :rolleyes:
bab Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 Your insurance company comparison is completely ridiculous. When money is stolen, the insurance company is responsible for giving back what was taken. Well you can rest assured, because the woman regardless about how much you think is responsible cannot have what was taken given back. It's impossible. In your money stealing scenerio, if the thef is caught he is not given a lighter sentence because it was an easy steal. He stole it. Period.
Woggle Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 A rape is the fault of the rapist and nobody else. I don't care how she is dressed or how much makeup she is wearing or whatever if she says no then the rapist is 100% at fault and should be punished accordingly. These excuses only make men out to be some animals that can't control themselves.
Author Answer Posted April 4, 2007 Author Posted April 4, 2007 Let's go back to some of the things I said. Never ONCE did I say that women SHOULD be raped, or that they OUGHT to be raped. What I said was that if provacatively dressed women get sexaully harrassed, then they should not be all too surprised that that happened. If she not dressed as scandalous and still gets raped, it's still ****ed up, but the message her clothes were not as attention-grabbing as the one who dressed like a whore. Women with clothes that makes guys say, "look at what she's almost NOT wearing," remind me of those who live in Hawaii. They have homes build right next to the volcano and then WONDER why there's lava in their living room. As a matter of fact, if you read the last paragraph of my first post (which I think no one did), I said: This is NOT to say that a man is justified in touching her, but the notion that she has absolutely no responsibility with regard to her clothing and the message it sends out is utter nonsense. I am NOT saying that a man is justified in touching her. If he rapes her, he should be in jail, period. If anything, all I'm trying to say is be careful. ________ Another thing: This thing about the insurance company originally brought up by "bab" a few posts back. It's funny how you did not make mention about the analogy I used about whites making racist comments toward blacks. That can only be because I was headed in the right direction with my argument. You also never disagreed with the part where I used the example of lung cancer. I said how messed up it would be for someone to get lung cancer, yet someone who smokes clearly handle some responsibility to that. Am I wrong on those? I think not, which makes my argument for this topic right. ________ For "Boshemia" who said that, "Women AREN'T allowed to wear what they please." In case you missed it, here's what I wrote earlier in this topic: QUESTION: Why should a woman NOT have the right to wear what she pleases? ANSWER: For the same reason men do not go to work with their dicks hanging out of their trousers. I tell you what; try wearing a Nazi helmet whenever you go out. See if other women agree with your right to wear what you want. Furthermore, since you are soooooooo concerned about rape, should you not be advising women to dress more carefully, rather than promoting the opposite? In other words, women AREN'T allowed to wear what they please. ________ For "a4a": Your last comment when you said ... Yep, those old ladies that get raped in their own homes are really asking for it too! Wearing those snug fitting house coats, seductively sucking on prunes, while eyeballing Wheel of Fortune with their draperies drawn back so passerbys can see right in......... yep they are just begging for it! That was the funniest thing I ever read. Guys who do that have brains that are just as old as those ladies are. They should be more selevtive next time. ...I kid, of course. I'm only KIDDING. In all, NO WOMEN DESERVES TO GET RAPED. No means, "****ING, NO!". Don't get me wrong. I'm all for girls who want to get in touch with their "inner slut". But women, just be careful of the sickos out there when you do dress like whores. Those are whores uniforms, you know.
2ndIINone Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Same topic, sorta, different scenerio. What if.... A guy dated a girl... 2 dates... they end up back at his house. Things get hot and heavy... they head off to the bedroom. Things progress, clothes are flying, both are willing. In the middle of it.... she screams... "Rape me" "Huh?" "Go ahead, F@#$ me like you're raping me... I like it dirty... I like it rough" "Huh?" *goes soft* He's bugged out a little by this statement cause' it's the first time he's ever heard that during sex, they talk a bit... and continue... again... she's screaming... "Rape me... yes.... rape me..." How does one handle that???? Did he rape her or have sex with her? Better yet... are her parents responsible for her actions and words??? Ps... she was dressed like a lady during the date.... very conservative.
ilmw Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 This is one bizarre post. Although I kinda get what you are saying... I do not at all agree with your logic. It is kinda like saying , if a guy goes into a bar... glances over and catches the eye of another guy... that guy gets the some how rubbed the wrong way... walks over and punches the guy for looking at him... Who's fault is that? or what about bullies... they prey on the weak. Is it the victims fault for being weaker... vulnerable.. With your logic... you would seem to say... if a kid dresses with hand-me-down cloths.. has horned rimmed glasses kept together by tape... and have a hair cut given to him by mom... (classic victim of a bully) Its the victims fault... for looking like that... and what if that kid is picked on... even beaten up...on the way home from school... is it the victims fault...for putting themselves in that position... Also.. rape is based on power... NOT sex...
2ndIINone Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 Although I kinda get what you are saying... I do not at all agree with your logic. well, I don't think I was using any 'kind' of logic here. Was just curious, that's all. Truth is... I was the guy dating this particular girl.... and this is how she acted the first time behind closed doors. Truthfully speaking.... it spooked the hell outta me just 'hearing' the word rape during sex. I know some people like kinky sex, as we all do.... but the wording used??? I didn't care for so much.
ilmw Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 well, I don't think I was using any 'kind' of logic here. Was just curious, that's all. Truth is... I was the guy dating this particular girl.... and this is how she acted the first time behind closed doors. Truthfully speaking.... it spooked the hell outta me just 'hearing' the word rape during sex. I know some people like kinky sex, as we all do.... but the wording used??? I didn't care for so much. :lmao:...what I said was not aimed at you...but the OP.. although...Geezzz that is one *ucked up scenario........ and Yeah... that might be weird... although... if you were with her... for along time ... and you were role playing... that might be different .... I guess???
2ndIINone Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 what I said was not aimed at you...but the OP.. although...Geezzz that is one *ucked up scenario.. Oh, sorry. Thought you were talking to me about the logic. And yes.... one f'd up true scenerio it was. And yes, I agree, IF we were dating for awhile and role played it would be ok....sick, but ok I guess. But not on the second date.... there was a third date... and fourth, but it eventually got the best of me.... and ended.
boshemia Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 So maybe if girls wore nuns habits and a rosary guys would get the picture? Or maybe not... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E2D91039F935A15753C1A967948260 - A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple as a glance). “Most sexual assault victims are wearing regular clothes like blue jeans or pajamas when they are assaulted, not provocative clothing.” http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=776945 I can accept the fact that I cannot change your mind in this matter, your mind was already made up when you made the original post. My mind is made up as well. What I have had to learn the hard way is that rape is the only crime where the victim is guilty until proven innocent. I have been fighting for almost two years just to get something done, anything... not for me, but for the seventeen year old girl he raped after me, and the 10 or more girls in between. As I told you before I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt, nothing spicy or provocative. He was someone I knew and trusted, and I thought he cared for me. After the people heard me screaming and came into the room, after more than a dozen people witnessed my rape and intervened... I got to stand there and listen to the whispers... I heard someone say "Well, you know how she is." meaning I had a reputation in high school, ten years past... ten years that I had spent married, staying at home with my husband and my kids... and 10 years later I somehow deserved being raped because I dated a lot of guys in high school... And to add insult to injury the guy who raped me came looking for me a week later... he had a friend get me outside so he could talk to me. He said he was sorry, he guessed I had just gotten him too excited. I didn't even tell my family, I didn't tell anyone because they blamed me, he blamed me, and I blamed myself. I wasn't raped, I was just stupid... Then I found out about the other girls, I could accept that my rape was my fault but not theirs. The 17 year old girl? She said it was her fault because her parents told her not to go out that night, one of the other girls said she wouldn't report because he raped her in the middle of a drug deal. Another one because she was a 16 year old virgin and had snuck out of the house to party with some cool older guys. Everyone of us blamed ourselves. Most of of the girls wont even talk about it, the ones that have have met with more blame from the DA, the Cops, The judges... As soon as we reported he bagan stalking us. I thought this was the worst case I had ever heard of, and that's when I started getting to know other survivors, gathering statistics. Instead of finding out that we were treated horribly by the system, I found out this is how the system works. There are more stories out there than I can count that are almost identical to ours. We run into a lot of people who think exactly like you do. The judge who said she couldn't give us restraining orders unless he "actually" hurt us. The court clerk who laughed at me. She said they couldn't issue a restraining order without an act of violence, I asked exactly how rape wasn't an act of violence... she actually laughed at me. You are talking about how rape victims need to take more responsibility for their rapes. Please understand we are the ONLY ones taking responsibility for the rapes. On the very rare chance that justice is even served, it is light... All we do is blame ourselves, so instead of pointing out possible reasons for it to happen, because everyone knows I was a slut... please God try and imagine the hell that rape survivors go through... imagine how many times we wish we would have changed course even for a moment on that night. I wish I hadn't gone out that night, I wish I hadn't gone to that party, I wish I hadn't let him kiss me, I wish I hadn't gone into the room alone with him, I wish I had fought harder, I wish a lot of things... but nothing can change it. I wont even try to change your mind, but please for God's sake... if someone you love ever has to go through this don't go and say something stupid like "well if you hadn't been dressed like that it wouldn't have happened" Support her, encourage her, and stand by her... she is already blaming herself, and all she needs from you is the courage to stand up for herself, because trust me... she doesn't know she has it in herself...
Guest Posted April 7, 2007 Posted April 7, 2007 A woman is only responsible for a rape if she commits it. Even if the guy is walking around topless!!!!! and is flirtatious. How likely is that to happen? Now, a woman is responsible for a sexual assault if she is HIV positive and knows it, and has unprotected sex with a man without telling him first.
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