Can'tGiveUp Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 I have read several threads where people have given various definitions of what an EA is. The most consistent trait seems to be the forging of a bond where things are said and/or done that would not be said or done with the knowledge of the spouse. Discussions that are of a personal nature - perhaps involving the problems in the person's relationship and issues within their M. It seems to me that this encompasses most friendships. Unless, of course, the things said are declarations of undying, unrequited love. Looking at it from a typical female-female friendship (since I don't really know what guys talk to guys about), most women share things with their friends that their husbands don't know about. And I am sure that many husbands would be mortified if they knew some of the things their wife tells her best friend. So I have my best friend and she comes to me when she needs someone to talk to. When she is having a down moment...when she is questioning something in her life. And I listen, and I might tell her what I would do if it was me, and I might suggest that she talk to him about it. Then I give her a hug and I tell her I love her and that everything will be okay, that she's a wonderful, beautiful, strong woman - and she will get through whatever the issue of the moment is. Now, just suppose my best friend is male. All of a sudden, according to the common definition of an EA, I have become an OW and he is now "my" MM. Because we talk about things such as his marriage and his wife doesn't know about it and probably wouldn't be happy that he was discussing these things. Because I hug him when he needs it and tell him I love him. Because we are friends and not the same gender. I don't like this new definition of my friendship.
Meaplus3 Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 I have read several threads where people have given various definitions of what an EA is. The most consistent trait seems to be the forging of a bond where things are said and/or done that would not be said or done with the knowledge of the spouse. Discussions that are of a personal nature - perhaps involving the problems in the person's relationship and issues within their M. It seems to me that this encompasses most friendships. Unless, of course, the things said are declarations of undying, unrequited love. Looking at it from a typical female-female friendship (since I don't really know what guys talk to guys about), most women share things with their friends that their husbands don't know about. And I am sure that many husbands would be mortified if they knew some of the things their wife tells her best friend. So I have my best friend and she comes to me when she needs someone to talk to. When she is having a down moment...when she is questioning something in her life. And I listen, and I might tell her what I would do if it was me, and I might suggest that she talk to him about it. Then I give her a hug and I tell her I love her and that everything will be okay, that she's a wonderful, beautiful, strong woman - and she will get through whatever the issue of the moment is. Now, just suppose my best friend is male. All of a sudden, according to the common definition of an EA, I have become an OW and he is now "my" MM. Because we talk about things such as his marriage and his wife doesn't know about it and probably wouldn't be happy that he was discussing these things. Because I hug him when he needs it and tell him I love him. Because we are friends and not the same gender. I don't like this new definition of my friendship. Hi, Since I was in an E/A, I have looked up Emotional Affairs. Heres on link with good info. http://marriage.about.com/od/infidelity/ss/emotionalaffair_2.htm AP
PoshPrincess Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Hi, Since I was in an E/A, I have looked up Emotional Affairs. Heres on link with good info. http://marriage.about.com/od/infidelity/ss/emotionalaffair_2.htm AP This is an interesting one. Should a 'normal' friendship with a member of the opposite sex be defined as an EA just because you are sharing things with that person that your partner doesn't know about, when there would be considered nothing wrong with this if the person was of the same sex? I have saved the above link in my favourites so that I can have a good read of it later. If I was in a friendship with someone of the opposite sex (as above) I wouldn't consider myself to be having an EA unless I had inappropriate feelings for that person (inappropriate as in feelings you shouldn't have for one person whilst in a R with another). That said, if the shoe were on the other foot and my partner was discussing personal issues with a member of the opposite sex, I would probably be put out if it was a new friendship. If it was a female that he had as a friend before we were together I would see things differently. These things aren't as black and white as we may sometimes think.
outofdarkness Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Hi, I don't think it would be considered an EA in MY book unless I was totally UNAWARE of the friendship. It's when the deceit and lies come in the picture that trouble begins. If it's just a normal friendship like W have w/ other W, then ok, as long as the spouse is aware of it and it's discussed from time to time. Personally I wasn't made aware of ANY of my H's A's, EA's OR PA's...
IfWishesWereHorses Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 [COLOR=#800080]Quiz - Are You in an Emotional Affair?[/COLOR] Here is the quiz that is linked in the site above.
Author Can'tGiveUp Posted March 29, 2007 Author Posted March 29, 2007 This is an interesting one. Should a 'normal' friendship with a member of the opposite sex be defined as an EA just because you are sharing things with that person that your partner doesn't know about, when there would be considered nothing wrong with this if the person was of the same sex? I have saved the above link in my favourites so that I can have a good read of it later. If I was in a friendship with someone of the opposite sex (as above) I wouldn't consider myself to be having an EA unless I had inappropriate feelings for that person (inappropriate as in feelings you shouldn't have for one person whilst in a R with another). That said, if the shoe were on the other foot and my partner was discussing personal issues with a member of the opposite sex, I would probably be put out if it was a new friendship. If it was a female that he had as a friend before we were together I would see things differently. These things aren't as black and white as we may sometimes think. Thanks - that was my point - I wasn't questioning whether I was in an EA - just trying to provoke some thought. I don't consider it an EA - he is my friend. But from what I have been reading, many would consider it as such. On one point though, I did meet him after he was married - so I am not a friend that was there before his wife. She and I have discussed it a bit. Particularly her feelings when he first met me and began mentioning my name at home. I think we are all okay with it now. That being said, I am pretty sure that she doesn't realize quite how close we are.
Trialbyfire Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 An EA with the opposite gender consists of parasitic tendencies towards the primary relationship. There are usually sexual undertones where one or both parties has a greater interest in forging more than a friendship bond.
Sevenmack Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Take a trip out of town somewhere for a week without either your husband or 'friend' -- without contacting either during that time -- and observe your emotional state. If you miss your spouse and not the 'friend,' then there isn't an emotional affair. If you miss the 'friend' and not the spouse, then you are in an emotional affair. If you miss them both, you are in an emotional love triangle. And if you break down after a couple of days and call the 'friend,' then you definitely need to work on your marriage. Any questions?
Author Can'tGiveUp Posted March 29, 2007 Author Posted March 29, 2007 Take a trip out of town somewhere for a week without either your husband or 'friend' -- without contacting either during that time -- and observe your emotional state. If you miss your spouse and not the 'friend,' then there isn't an emotional affair. If you miss the 'friend' and not the spouse, then you are in an emotional affair. If you miss them both, you are in an emotional love triangle. And if you break down after a couple of days and call the 'friend,' then you definitely need to work on your marriage. Any questions? Just one...when did I get back together with my husband?? OK - just kidding (well, not really but...) In any event - a week away - sure I'd miss him but no more than my best girlfriend. Of course - I usually talk to her at some point when I am away.
Sevenmack Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 But in many cases in an emotional affair, one's spouse is the last person on the mind of the cheating spouse. Let me define my terms here: By missing someone, I mean the strong combined sexual-emotional yearning that one usually reserves for one's spouse. It's not simply not being able to talk to one's platonic friend, but it's one step beyond infatuation. You feel when you're around your spouse that you're almost cheating on your 'friend'? That's the sign of an emotional affair. That 'friend' is the first person you call when some good news happens instead of calling the wife? Emotional affair. Ultimately, it's one of those "you know it when you see it or feel it" things. Sometimes words can't convey a state of being.
RecordProducer Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 EA is totally not about sharing things that you wouldn't tell your spouse with someone else. If we take everything so literally then buying a present for my husband implies that I have an EA with the salesman, because I certainly wouldn't tell my husband about our conversation. I am just joking, but my point is that I share many things that I wouldn't tell my husband with other people. Most of them actually are about my husband. Emotional affair contains the word "emotional" which means deep emotionas are involved. The word "affair" implies that these emotions are mutual and actively expressed and shared. The talk is the typical lovers' talk. There could be sexual conversations or cyber/phone sex involved, too. They think of each other a lot and fantasize of being together, making love, etc. EAs usually evolve from the needs that are not being fulfilled in the marriage, but these people (or one of the actors) make a decision to remain physically faithful. Sometimes they develop into physical affairs.
PoshPrincess Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 She and I have discussed it a bit. Particularly her feelings when he first met me and began mentioning my name at home. I think we are all okay with it now. That being said, I am pretty sure that she doesn't realize quite how close we are. She sounds like a very mature and honest person and at least he has been straight with her, well, by not sneaking behind her back seeing you at any rate. I would say, if you felt guilty about your R with him (or if he did) then it would definitely be an EA, although I guess there are people who feel guilty about nothing in particular and those who just feel guilty about nothing.
puddleofmud Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 If NOT an EA then: Could be a matter of what would be considered appropriate between the partners themselves and what they would consider as a matter of betrayal of their respective mutual trust. I don't think discussing SOME things with another person are particularly inappropriate, and even less so if that person is a KNOWN life-long friend or a family member. What would be inappropriate is when the attached partner is actually seeking out an emotional connection and manipulating that emotional connection with another to undermine their partner. As then that "extra" person becomes the defining or more important aspect of one's emotional existence beyond the R from which they should derive that kind of support and connection. This may even include a family member such as when a spouse continually runs to a mother or brother or best friend and then forces that opinion (and only that opinion--which probably matches theirs) down the throat of their partner. OR when a partner gives inappropriate intimate details about the other to anyone about which was agreed to be private or perceived as private merely by the fact of the R in and of itself. As for an actual EA I would think that this carries further into another kind of intimacy where the two have become so emotionally dependent on each other that the spouse has, for the most part, become a non-factor: When the attached partner is actually seeking out an emotional connection and manipulating that emotional connection with another which undermines their partner and the primary R. As then that "extra" person becomes the defining or more important aspect of one's emotional existence beyond the R from which they should seek to derive that kind of support and connection. I think EA's are deadly and too often how marriages break down as one spouse is enabled to AVOID and the other has no clue as to the needs of that spouse and is unfairly robbed of the chance to address those needs.
NoIDidn't Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Thanks - that was my point - I wasn't questioning whether I was in an EA - just trying to provoke some thought. I don't consider it an EA - he is my friend. But from what I have been reading, many would consider it as such. On one point though, I did meet him after he was married - so I am not a friend that was there before his wife. She and I have discussed it a bit. Particularly her feelings when he first met me and began mentioning my name at home. I think we are all okay with it now. That being said, I am pretty sure that she doesn't realize quite how close we are. Sounds like she had some issues with your friendship and upon meeting you has decided to put this relationship/friendship onto a "watch" list. It may not be an EA right now, or ever for that matter, but that doesn't mean that she's cool with it. In the aftermath of my H's EA, he cut ties with just about all of his friends of the opposite sex. I requested it for the ex-gf/friends. He did it on his own for the others for his own sanity and to learn to put some boundaries around our M. We wives are funny like that. Cool with it one minute and not cool with it in the next. Just don't try to demonize her for protecting "hers". Most women would do the same. Oh, yes, and do respect her wishes, whether or not he does.
Trialbyfire Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 What would be inappropriate is when the attached partner is actually seeking out an emotional connection and manipulating that emotional connection with another to undermine their partner. As then that "extra" person becomes the defining or more important aspect of one's emotional existence beyond the R from which they should derive that kind of support and connection. Exactly. This is the parasitic aspect I mentioned earlier. A friend should be someone who enriches your life, not someone who undermines the primary relationship. Add sexual undertones or blatant flirtation from one or both parties and you have a serious problem.
EndoftheRope Posted April 1, 2007 Posted April 1, 2007 Hi, I don't think it would be considered an EA in MY book unless I was totally UNAWARE of the friendship. It's when the deceit and lies come in the picture that trouble begins. If it's just a normal friendship like W have w/ other W, then ok, as long as the spouse is aware of it and it's discussed from time to time. Personally I wasn't made aware of ANY of my H's A's, EA's OR PA's... I agree. SECRECY and LIES are a huge factor. I have no problem with the female friends my husband was upfront about. Frankly, I think he's discussed some things with them that were over the line, BUT I KNEW ABOUT THEM. It is the women he's hidden from me that I have a huge problem with, that may yet lead to the end of our marriage. The fact that he didn't tell me about them tells me a lot about what's going on in his head and heart, regardless of what he ever said to them or what they ever said to him about their feelings.
outofdarkness Posted April 1, 2007 Posted April 1, 2007 I agree. SECRECY and LIES are a huge factor. I have no problem with the female friends my husband was upfront about. Frankly, I think he's discussed some things with them that were over the line, BUT I KNEW ABOUT THEM. It is the women he's hidden from me that I have a huge problem with, that may yet lead to the end of our marriage. The fact that he didn't tell me about them tells me a lot about what's going on in his head and heart, regardless of what he ever said to them or what they ever said to him about their feelings. Yup...that's what makes it an a....the fact that it's hidden from the S...
lrae Posted April 1, 2007 Posted April 1, 2007 EAs usually evolve from the needs that are not being fulfilled in the marriage Careful here!! Perhaps I am reading a little into your statement? But, this implies problems with the marriage or spouse (vs. self). I am of the impression that current research imdicates that affairs most often result from a combination of "adultery permissive" personal, societal and moral factors. For example - low self esteem, father had affairs, close friends that are unfaithful (to name a few). Please acknowledge these contributors before going to the overused standby of "unfulfilling marriage"!
IpAncA Posted April 1, 2007 Posted April 1, 2007 Looking at it from a typical female-female friendship (since I don't really know what guys talk to guys about), most women share things with their friends that their husbands don't know about. And I am sure that many husbands would be mortified if they knew some of the things their wife tells her best friend. So I have my best friend and she comes to me when she needs someone to talk to. When she is having a down moment...when she is questioning something in her life. And I listen, and I might tell her what I would do if it was me, and I might suggest that she talk to him about it. Then I give her a hug and I tell her I love her and that everything will be okay, that she's a wonderful, beautiful, strong woman - and she will get through whatever the issue of the moment is. I agree and no one seems to have a problem with that. If you follow the EA def. wouldn't that mean people are in EA's with their girlfriends? Now, just suppose my best friend is male. All of a sudden, according to the common definition of an EA, I have become an OW and he is now "my" MM. Because we talk about things such as his marriage and his wife doesn't know about it and probably wouldn't be happy that he was discussing these things. Because I hug him when he needs it and tell him I love him. Because we are friends and not the same gender. I don't like this new definition of my friendship. Amazing how the ties turn and it's wrong when someone does what they do with their girlfriends is done with guys. A person can do the same thing with the same sex but not with the opposite? Seems like you shouldn't do it with ANYONE but your SO. But then who would you talk to? That would mean people shouldn't be talking on here about their relationship problems. That's why I have a VERY hard time grasping EA's.
silktricks Posted April 2, 2007 Posted April 2, 2007 In my opinion, an EA is a friendship between two people. At least one of those two people is involved in a committed relationship. The friendship is hidden from the SO of the committed person(s). AND at least one of the people in the friendship wants the friendship to grow into a committed relationship and replace the current SO.
Chapter2 Posted April 2, 2007 Posted April 2, 2007 If it were just a friendship then it wouldn't need to be hidden and sometimes both claim to want the "friendship" to replace the betrayed spouse. I think emotional affairs are every bit as destructive as physical affairs. I know it devestated me when a former SO was involved in that type of "friendship". I don't mean to split hairs, just thinking out loud or writing out loud rather:) In my opinion, an EA is a friendship between two people. At least one of those two people is involved in a committed relationship. The friendship is hidden from the SO of the committed person(s). AND at least one of the people in the friendship wants the friendship to grow into a committed relationship and replace the current SO.
outofdarkness Posted April 2, 2007 Posted April 2, 2007 If it were just a friendship then it wouldn't need to be hidden and sometimes both claim to want the "friendship" to replace the betrayed spouse. I think emotional affairs are every bit as destructive as physical affairs. I know it devestated me when a former SO was involved in that type of "friendship". I don't mean to split hairs, just thinking out loud or writing out loud rather:) IMO, EAs can be MORE destructive then PA's...Anytime there's an emotional connection and actual "feelings" involved, and the A starts out as a deep friendship, the chances of the M being repaired are greatly diminished. As warped as it sounds, I would much rather have my H have a short PA then a long EA..Of course, neither is acceptable in my book, but if I had to choose between the lesser of the two evils, I'd choose the short PA...JMHO...
Chapter2 Posted April 2, 2007 Posted April 2, 2007 No, you don't sound warped...I agree...but, you are right in that its almost like choosing which way you would want to die...there is no good option but I would much prefer a sin of the flesh over a sin of the heart so to speak. Both are shattering. IMO, EAs can be MORE destructive then PA's...Anytime there's an emotional connection and actual "feelings" involved, and the A starts out as a deep friendship, the chances of the M being repaired are greatly diminished. As warped as it sounds, I would much rather have my H have a short PA then a long EA..Of course, neither is acceptable in my book, but if I had to choose between the lesser of the two evils, I'd choose the short PA...JMHO...
silktricks Posted April 3, 2007 Posted April 3, 2007 If it were just a friendship then it wouldn't need to be hidden and sometimes both claim to want the "friendship" to replace the betrayed spouse. I think emotional affairs are every bit as destructive as physical affairs. I know it devestated me when a former SO was involved in that type of "friendship". I don't mean to split hairs, just thinking out loud or writing out loud rather:) You are absolutely correct. I should have added the same quotation marks that you did to the word "friendship" as I meant it sarcastically. And I agree, every bit as painful, if not moreso.
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