She said it, I didn't

[RecordProducer]

So I'm just putting this out there. Yes, I got my own little validation from a therapist. She knows more about the human psychie than most of us. She told me what I already knew in my heart and applauded my own growth since then.

 

It just made me feel better having someone else, a professional, say it out loud.

I think it's very sad that when you know in your heart that something is white, others convince you that it's black.

 

I decided that I will not let anyone play with my heart again. I will not feel like a loser or a bitch because somebody else is frustrated and projecting their jerky frustrrations on me and receving cheap thrills out of hurting me. Of course, this is not about infidelity. But whenever I cheated in my previous relationship it was LOOOOOONG AFTER they deserved much worse than that.

 

Liv Ullmann, a Swedish actress and writer, said: "if you love, you won't chea; if you don't - then there is no one to cheat on.

 

I just love this quote and that's exactly how I feel about it. If I cheated on my husband, I would drown in guilt. But if I would feel good about it then it would mean that I don't love him. And why sacrifice for someone you don't love?

 

The point is: all these people who claim "there is no excuse for cheating" imply that you should be fair to somebdoy who is very unfair to you; that cheating is worse than all the things he did to you. And it's not.

 

Regarding the question "why didn't you divorce?", when you decide that somebody is mean to you, you discard his feelings and don't care if you hurt them - YOU will decide when is the right timing for a divorce and IF you want to divorce.

[OldEurope]

Very well said, RP

[movinon05]

The point is: all these people who claim "there is no excuse for cheating" imply that you should be fair to somebdoy who is very unfair to you; that cheating is worse than all the things he did to you. And it's not.

 

Well that's just it, isn't it? All the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical abusethat accumulates over 17 yrs just gets swept under the rug and excused when suddenly the spouse cheats. When I look back, I see a woman who was spiritually broken, making excuses and sweeping his behavior under the rug myself in order to keep the family unit together.

 

And then there's the outside world who has no idea of what goes on inside that house.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, he can shout to the rooftops that his W cheated on him, and never feel that he has to be accountable for his actions that precipitated the downfall.

 

I know what I know. My kids know what they know. We all know I made a mistake. I apologized, asked for forgiveness and they've forgiven me. They haven't forgiven their father. Because my A is past. Their father's behavior is still present.

[addicted2love]

 

 

Anyway, at my session, I fully expected it to just be about my son and his relationship with his father. But it was not. The therapist wanted the family history. My life growing up, my family, how I met my H, our early years, the downfall of the marriage, etc. etc. I was very honest with her and admitted to the A, gave the details of how it all happened and how it went down, not making any excuses for myself.

 

I told her how I post on this forum, now to help other OWs knowing what I know now.

 

Towards the end of the conversation, she said, in so many words: "So, you had an affair because of the way your husband treated you. He did "x and y", not taking his responsibilities as a husband and father seriously. He had little value for you and your children. That's why you had the A. The A never would have happened if he had been home, not out drinking every night, putting you and your children first, etc, etc."

 

 

It just made me feel better having someone else, a professional, say it out loud.

 

Basically your therapist repeated what you told her.... They do that...it's almost like they are saying...let me be clear on this you feel as though.....

Obviously other posters think that she's a crappy therapist because you feel she validated your feelings. Her job is not to judge you or punish you for wrong doing, her job is to help you deal with the how's and why's that brought you to the end of your marriage. Her job is to help you understand where things went wrong so that you can move on and not make the same mistakes in the future. Also she is there to help you find ways to deal with your emotions...regarding the abuse in the marriage as well as the emotions you have about the A.

 

I say if you like your therapist and feel as though she will help you sort through things you should stick with her. There is always a lot more to an individual's story than they can possibly post here. If you feel validated that's not a bad thing. You are absolutely intitled to how you feel.

[NoIDidn't]

MO

 

I think all that the therapist was doing was repeating back to you what she felt that she heard you say. Don't be surprised the next visit when she does give you the "own your sh*t" conversation.

 

I don't feel she was validating you at all. All she did was active listening, repeating back to you what she felt she was hearing you say. And to tell you the truth, it doesn't sound all that convincing. There were so many other things you could have made a decision to do, but you chose the A. This is not a dig, or a condemnation. Just be prepared to hear it from the therapist.

[NoIDidn't]

I know that some therapists are not worth anything.

 

I find offense to this as I am a therapist AND a female. AND an xOW AND BS I haven' t read the rest of the thread yet as I wanted to offer my POV. Therapists aren't there to decide who was right or wrong, pass judgement or agree and disagree. Therapists are there to offer validation, empathy and actively listen regardless of their experiences and personal values. It is my role to guide the process towards change and solutions, and challenge when needed yes, but it is the clients role to determine what and if anything they did is wrong or justified or just plain simlpy happened just because. That is when the challenge comes to play if it is really needed.

 

What your statement tells me is that perhaps you had a bad experience where you weren't validated, and that's too bad!

 

Plus, I didn't spend years in school learning what I have been doing to be genralized as "not worth anything"!

 

 

I don't mean any harm, but if you wouldn't have been my therapist.

 

I am sorry that you took offense to whoever said it, but its a true statement. Not all therapist are any good. In fact, I would venture to say that MOST have so many personal issues themselves as to be useless to those coming to them hoping that their counsel can make a difference in their lives.

 

Spending years in school (for any profession) does not make one effective. Too many folks have this attitude and it isn't right to think that a degree (or degrees) suddenly qualifies one for a profession.

[RecordProducer]

They haven't forgiven their father. Because my A is past. Their father's behavior is still present.

Movinon, please stop with the moralistic bullshyt, hon, OK? It's totally unnecessary. You divorced a piece of crap. A part of your problems (a consequence of them) was your affair. The cause was HIS behavior. After two people get divorced, I don't think affairs count anymore. They're "taken off your record."

 

Basically your therapist repeated what you told her.... They do that...it's almost like they are saying...let me be clear on this you feel as though.....

Obviously other posters think that she's a crappy therapist because you feel she validated your feelings. Her job is not to judge you or punish you for wrong doing, her job is to help you deal with the how's and why's that brought you to the end of your marriage. Her job is to help you understand where things went wrong so that you can move on and not make the same mistakes in the future. Also she is there to help you find ways to deal with your emotions...regarding the abuse in the marriage as well as the emotions you have about the A.

 

I say if you like your therapist and feel as though she will help you sort through things you should stick with her. There is always a lot more to an individual's story than they can possibly post here. If you feel validated that's not a bad thing. You are absolutely intitled to how you feel.

Very good post. A therapist is not there to give you the frown face and tell you that you're immoral for having an affair, although I believe some therapists might do it and THAT would be wrong from a therapist.

 

An affair IS wrong: it's wrong, because if you needed an affair, you didn't get what you needed from your spouse, they brought the worse in you, they killed your love for them, they made you desperate for crumbs of affection...

 

Or maybe you're a sex addict who didn't get enough love in your childhood so you continuously need to get abundance of physical affection from many people? If this is the case, it's the therapists job to estimate the situation, recognize the problem, and suggest solution through therapy - not to judge you for it.

 

I know that some therapists are not worth anything.

 

I find offense to this as I am a therapist AND a female. AND an xOW AND BS I haven' t read the rest of the thread yet as I wanted to offer my POV. Therapists aren't there to decide who was right or wrong, pass judgement or agree and disagree. Therapists are there to offer validation, empathy and actively listen regardless of their experiences and personal values. It is my role to guide the process towards change and solutions, and challenge when needed yes, but it is the clients role to determine what and if anything they did is wrong or justified or just plain simlpy happened just because. That is when the challenge comes to play if it is really needed.

Kymberann, what I wrote above is what I would like to tell you, too. I agree with you, by the way.

 

"So easy a therapist could do it?" (Do you have this commercial?)

[Sevenmack]

RecordProducer wrote: The point is: all these people who claim "there is no excuse for cheating" imply that you should be fair to somebdoy who is very unfair to you; that cheating is worse than all the things he did to you. And it's not.

 

But by arguing that the cheating is equal or lesser than the abuse, you're arguing that the cheating spouse has no responsibility for her poor treatment. And that's not true either.

 

You show people how you want to be treated. Stay with a man who is slapping you around and you will be slapped around over and over again. The same is true if you accept emotional abuse, alcoholism and other behaviors that hurt you and lead you to the affair. As my grandfather would say, the person you cheated on is wrong for what he did, but it's your fault for allowing it to happen and then continue.

 

The infidelity is a result of two actions: Yours and the cheated spouse. And when the one who cheats complains about the poor treatment they received that drove them into another's arms, this question must be asked: "Why did you tolerate the crap for so long anyway?"

 

In some ways, the infidelity is worse than the poor treatment because you're hurting yourself thrice: Once by tolerating the shabby treatment, then by having to deal with the pain of being caught in the act and finally, the threat of repeating the cycle again. You haven't solved anything through the infidelity. It may have ended the marriage, but it didn't end any cycles.

 

As far as the therapist is concerned: She has a right to come to a judgement based on what she's heard. Not that every therapist is right -- many are off the mark -- but she has a right to offer the validation based on her knowledge

[movinon05]

Movinon, please stop with the moralistic bullshyt, hon, OK? It's totally unnecessary. You divorced a piece of crap. A part of your problems (a consequence of them) was your affair. The cause was HIS behavior. After two people get divorced, I don't think affairs count anymore. They're "taken off your record."

 

If I could quote you all separately, I would, but I have yet to learn how to do that.

 

She neither repeated back to me what I said (A2L), nor did she repeat back to me what she felt she heard me say (NID). We discussed the M, and later we discussed the A. And to some of the others, I owned my mistake. Even with past therapists, I've always owned it.

 

Moralistic bullshyt, I think not. My problem is with those that continue to say "once a cheater, always a cheater" like its some kind of genetic gene that you can't get rid of. And always taking up for the cheated on like they did nothing to deserve it. (Not that I think my exH did).

[movinon05]

RecordProducer wrote: The point is: all these people who claim "there is no excuse for cheating" imply that you should be fair to somebdoy who is very unfair to you; that cheating is worse than all the things he did to you. And it's not.

 

But by arguing that the cheating is equal or lesser than the abuse, you're arguing that the cheating spouse has no responsibility for her poor treatment. And that's not true either.

 

You show people how you want to be treated. Stay with a man who is slapping you around and you will be slapped around over and over again. The same is true if you accept emotional abuse, alcoholism and other behaviors that hurt you and lead you to the affair. As my grandfather would say, the person you cheated on is wrong for what he did, but it's your fault for allowing it to happen and then continue.

 

The infidelity is a result of two actions: Yours and the cheated spouse. And when the one who cheats complains about the poor treatment they received that drove them into another's arms, this question must be asked: "Why did you tolerate the crap for so long anyway?"

 

In some ways, the infidelity is worse than the poor treatment because you're hurting yourself thrice: Once by tolerating the shabby treatment, then by having to deal with the pain of being caught in the act and finally, the threat of repeating the cycle again. You haven't solved anything through the infidelity. It may have ended the marriage, but it didn't end any cycles.

 

Would that life was just that simple and easy. Its easier to spout the shoulda, woulda, coulda. And its harder to validate, when you're going through it, that you've got justified reasons for ending the M, when all you were trying to do was keep it together and pretend your feelings didn't matter, so you went along day to day for the kids sake.

 

I think many of us can say we are different people today and would never tolerate what we did tolerate. But maybe some people just have to go through the learning process to get there. Its so easy to tell others what you might do if you were faced with something you've never faced.

[Sevenmack]

You are right about the 'woulda, shoulda, coulda." Hindsight is 20/20. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. You receive the treatment you teach someone. So blaming your ex-husband for your infidelity merely whitewashes the role you played in getting into the predicament in the first place. He was wrong for his treatment of you, but you were the one to blame for tolerating it and allowing it to fester to a point that you had to take flight the wrong way.

[stillhere]

I agree to the extent that we show others how we wish to be treated. But abuse doesn't happen the moment we lay eyes on someone. Those who are abusers gradually ease into the poor treatment of their SO. Those of us receiving the poor treatment put up with it to an extent because we don't see it getting worse right away.

 

Example.......a male who is physically abusive doesn't walk up to a girl on the first date and punch her in the eye!! He eases into it. He's sweet as pie for a good while. He showers her with affection, catering to her every need. The abuse starts slowly. First he gets jealous if another guy pays her attention. Then she says "awww, he loves me". Then when he gains more of her trust, he starts keeping her in his sight more. Won't let her see her friends because he wants to spend time with her, blah blah blah. And the story goes on.

 

Now he's beating the crap out of her and she finally realizes that she has no self esteem, no friends, no family, and no where to go. She's scared and he has all the control.

 

This goes for emotional abuse as well. That's where the shoulda, woulda, coulda comes into play. Like MO said, you can't see it when you are in the middle of it all. Looking back, you see all the red flags, but you couldn't see them then. He had the wool pulled over your eyes.

 

RP said it all, and i agree 100%. Affairs are wrong, but we all have our reasons. Good or bad.

 

MO, i'm glad you were finally able to voice and feel what you have known all along. Your exH was a piece of sh*t and you have moved on to bigger and better things. Even if there is no man in your life, you have yourself (a much stronger and happier self!) and your children and that's all that matters.

[RecordProducer]

If I could quote you all separately, I would, but I have yet to learn how to do that.

Outline the part you want to quote then click on the symbol that looks like a text page above the typing window.

 

She neither repeated back to me what I said (A2L), nor did she repeat back to me what she felt she heard me say (NID). We discussed the M, and later we discussed the A. And to some of the others, I owned my mistake. Even with past therapists, I've always owned it.

I think you simply stopped caring about him, because he tyreated you very poorly. Claming that there is no excuse for cheating is claiming that love is unconditional, fairness and respect are always required, even when they're not given, and sacrifice is necessary even for those who do everything to hurt you.

 

Moralistic bullshyt, I think not. My problem is with those that continue to say "once a cheater, always a cheater" like its some kind of genetic gene that you can't get rid of. And always taking up for the cheated on like they did nothing to deserve it. (Not that I think my exH did).

I see. Well, I would also be wary of those who have cheated in the past, but that's because people tend to keep things safe. So don't talk about your afair with other men until you get to know them really well. Or maybe not even then. You don't have to share every detail of your marriage. No you didn't cheat. You just ended up comfroting yourself in anothr man's arms. That's not "once a cheater - always a cheater" type of story.

 

RecordProducer wrote: The point is: all these people who claim "there is no excuse for cheating" imply that you should be fair to somebdoy who is very unfair to you; that cheating is worse than all the things he did to you. And it's not.

 

But by arguing that the cheating is equal or lesser than the abuse, you're arguing that the cheating spouse has no responsibility for her poor treatment. And that's not true either.

 

You show people how you want to be treated. Stay with a man who is slapping you around and you will be slapped around over and over again. The same is true if you accept emotional abuse, alcoholism and other behaviors that hurt you and lead you to the affair. As my grandfather would say, the person you cheated on is wrong for what he did, but it's your fault for allowing it to happen and then continue.

 

The infidelity is a result of two actions: Yours and the cheated spouse. And when the one who cheats complains about the poor treatment they received that drove them into another's arms, this question must be asked: "Why did you tolerate the crap for so long anyway?"

 

In some ways, the infidelity is worse than the poor treatment because you're hurting yourself thrice: Once by tolerating the shabby treatment, then by having to deal with the pain of being caught in the act and finally, the threat of repeating the cycle again. You haven't solved anything through the infidelity. It may have ended the marriage, but it didn't end any cycles.

 

As far as the therapist is concerned: She has a right to come to a judgement based on what she's heard. Not that every therapist is right -- many are off the mark -- but she has a right to offer the validation based on her knowledge

I think you're still in the moralistic department. The "right" thing to do for HER and the right thing for HIm are two different things that might or might not overlap. Once she got so hurt, she discarded the option to do what was right for HIM.

 

Whether she did what was right for her is another story.

[Blind Illusion]

I happen to agree with the therapist. She is not saying you made the best choice possible. All she is saying is as a result of A, you did B. That's life sometimes. Not all decisions are these grand ones. Sometimes, we do the best we can at the moment and in time, learn from them. Who is perfect?

[movinon05]

 

Let's see, did that work?

 

damn! lol!