movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 I recently took my exH to court (by myself) for years of back child support and a host of other issues. I won very easily, but in the meantime the judge ordered family therapy so that my teenage son and my exH could possibly heal their relationship and get my son to start seeing his father again. So while I figured this would just be between my son and my ex, it is not. My ex had a session with the therapist and then I did. My son goes next and then the ex and I have to go together. Anyway, at my session, I fully expected it to just be about my son and his relationship with his father. But it was not. The therapist wanted the family history. My life growing up, my family, how I met my H, our early years, the downfall of the marriage, etc. etc. I was very honest with her and admitted to the A, gave the details of how it all happened and how it went down, not making any excuses for myself. I told her how I post on this forum, now to help other OWs knowing what I know now. Towards the end of the conversation, she said, in so many words: "So, you had an affair because of the way your husband treated you. He did "x and y", not taking his responsibilities as a husband and father seriously. He had little value for you and your children. That's why you had the A. The A never would have happened if he had been home, not out drinking every night, putting you and your children first, etc, etc." I was rather surprised that she said that. I told her "YOU'RE allowed to say that. I'm not. On the forum, there are those who say 'you have no excuse. you had a choice. you're slime!' I told her that I always felt that the reason for the A WAS because of how my H treated me and my children. But that I would never say it on this board because it would start a little war, and it also didn't excuse me for the bad choice that I made. But it also didn't make me a whore either. So I'm just putting this out there. Yes, I got my own little validation from a therapist. She knows more about the human psychie than most of us. She told me what I already knew in my heart and applauded my own growth since then. It just made me feel better having someone else, a professional, say it out loud.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 There are many therapists who have the attitude that everything is the man's fault. She is a woman also who brings her own issues into it. I don't know your circumstances but her mentality is not uncommon. If you were that uhapppy you should have just left.
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 There are many therapists who have the attitude that everything is the man's fault. She is a woman also who brings her own issues into it. I don't know your circumstances but her mentality is not uncommon. If you were that uhapppy you should have just left. Oh boy, you're generalizing again! About women!! lol! I'm aware of what I should have done. I'm aware I made a mistake. Never said I didn't. Neither did she.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Oh boy, you're generalizing again! About women!! lol! I'm aware of what I should have done. I'm aware I made a mistake. Never said I didn't. Neither did she. I am not generalizing again but my ex wife had a therapist who said the same thing because it was my fault that we were living in poverty but then it was also my fault that I was going to school and working so much which was what pulled us out of poverty so really I was damned if I did and damned if didn't. I know that some therapists are not worth anything.
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 Well I see those as entirely different issues than the issues going on in my M. The issues in your M were surmountable. Apparently it looks like she wasn't able or willing to work to make it so. The reasons are not always right reasons for having an A. And there are never any right reasons for having an affair, but for some, the reasons are there. Some things are just catalysts for an A that might never have happened if both parties in the M were doing the right thing for the M. It seems to me you had workable problems but she decided to bail and that was her excuse.
addicted2love Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 There are many therapists who have the attitude that everything is the man's fault. She is a woman also who brings her own issues into it. I don't know your circumstances but her mentality is not uncommon. If you were that uhapppy you should have just left. This is true....however...in this situation I don't think that is the case. I give movinon a lot of credit for finally posting what she truly feels her reasons were for having an A. I too have made some major mistakes in my marriage based on how my H treated me. Also I take my share of the responsibility for his mistakes in our marriage. I often looked to myself for what I could have done differently in the marriage that would have kept him faithful. Sometimes when a person feels so neglected in a relationship it is easier to fall into the situation of an A. Still doesn't make it right but it happens to many many people. Yes it's still a choice...and yes one relationship should end before another begins. But life isn't perfectly cut and dry like that. Where there is emotion, history, children and finances involved it's not so easy to just walk away. The therapist is simply validating MO's feelings regarding what led her to the affair. She isn't condoning the actual affair. There's a big difference.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Well I see those as entirely different issues than the issues going on in my M. The issues in your M were surmountable. Apparently it looks like she wasn't able or willing to work to make it so. The reasons are not always right reasons for having an A. And there are never any right reasons for having an affair, but for some, the reasons are there. Some things are just catalysts for an A that might never have happened if both parties in the M were doing the right thing for the M. It seems to me you had workable problems but she decided to bail and that was her excuse. I don't know what yous issues were so I won't pass judgement but I know that everything I did was to make a better life for us. I didn't want us to have to live in the projects anymore and I didn't want us to have to raise our family there. I told her that my insane schedule would was only a temporary thing and I even made the weekends our time but it was still not good enough for her. I am not perfect but I feel that I gave it my all only to be blamed for her affair and have her therapist back me up. Luckily the female judge was all on my side.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 This is true....however...in this situation I don't think that is the case. I give movinon a lot of credit for finally posting what she truly feels her reasons were for having an A. I too have made some major mistakes in my marriage based on how my H treated me. Also I take my share of the responsibility for his mistakes in our marriage. I often looked to myself for what I could have done differently in the marriage that would have kept him faithful. Sometimes when a person feels so neglected in a relationship it is easier to fall into the situation of an A. Still doesn't make it right but it happens to many many people. Yes it's still a choice...and yes one relationship should end before another begins. But life isn't perfectly cut and dry like that. Where there is emotion, history, children and finances involved it's not so easy to just walk away. The therapist is simply validating MO's feelings regarding what led her to the affair. She isn't condoning the actual affair. There's a big difference. He cheated on you first so your case is different. I can't figure why you didn't dump him on the spot.
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 I don't know what yous issues were so I won't pass judgement but I know that everything I did was to make a better life for us. I didn't want us to have to live in the projects anymore and I didn't want us to have to raise our family there. I told her that my insane schedule would was only a temporary thing and I even made the weekends our time but it was still not good enough for her. I am not perfect but I feel that I gave it my all only to be blamed for her affair and have her therapist back me up. Luckily the female judge was all on my side. Well yes, entirely different issues, I assure you. I've posted my issues before and they are not the same in any way. If those are truly your circumstances, then yeah, it looks like she used it as an excuse to bail. But imagine that! A "female" judge took care of you!
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 I would also like to point out something here too. A2L has been on both sides of the fence. She is aware that there are "reasons" for both the A's of her H and herself. She looks for the reasons and the answers and knows she and her H are accountable for both. There are a few other BS's here who realize there are "reasons" that A's happen. So if they are willing to admit they were lacking in some department of their M that might lead to their spouse having an A, and willing to work on it, so should the OW be aware and also be able to be validated that there were reasons for their A, even if the M was not workable, and the ways the OW/OM chooses to work it out is to work it out with herself/himself in their own life and their future life. It has to go both ways.
addicted2love Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 He cheated on you first so your case is different. I can't figure why you didn't dump him on the spot. I had a 10 month old child to consider. He was living in another state (military) Per the advice of my mother in law...I gave him a second chance. His own mother told me...."I can't believe I'm about to say this about my own son but...Let him come home...put a roof over you and your daughters heads...try your best to make it work and if you find you just can't get over it then pack his sh*t in a hefty bad and kick his a** out." I took her advice. But in hindsight I should have cut ties then...it would have been so much easier on everyone. But I felt that my child deserved to have her father in her life daily. Also I felt....why should I be a single mother raising my child alone while he stayed in the military and played the bachelor roll while traveling the world! He helped me bring her into this world so I was going to make damn sure he was a part of her life on a full time basis. No matter what the outcome was for me I put her first. Shoulda, coulda, woulda...kwim?
Woggle Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Well yes, entirely different issues, I assure you. I've posted my issues before and they are not the same in any way. If those are truly your circumstances, then yeah, it looks like she used it as an excuse to bail. But imagine that! A "female" judge took care of you! God bless that woman who gave me everything in the divorce. At first she used it as an excuse to bail but then after the divorce she wanted back so bad she is now in prison for shooting at me after she found out I was getting remarried so I couldn't have been that bad.
addicted2love Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 I would also like to point out something here too. A2L has been on both sides of the fence. She is aware that there are "reasons" for both the A's of her H and herself. She looks for the reasons and the answers and knows she and her H are accountable for both. There are a few other BS's here who realize there are "reasons" that A's happen. So if they are willing to admit they were lacking in some department of their M that might lead to their spouse having an A, and willing to work on it, so should the OW be aware and also be able to be validated that there were reasons for their A, even if the M was not workable, and the ways the OW/OM chooses to work it out is to work it out with herself/himself in their own life and their future life. It has to go both ways. You are correct...I've always believed everything happens for a "reason" how ever accepting your own responsibility and blaming yourself for everything are two totally different things. Both parties are accountable...but no one person is to "blame". I stand behind what I said earlier MO....your "feelings" were validated by your therapist....she didn't tell you it was "right" but you know that already
addicted2love Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 God bless that woman who gave me everything in the divorce. At first she used it as an excuse to bail but then after the divorce she wanted back so bad she is now in prison for shooting at me after she found out I was getting remarried so I couldn't have been that bad. holy crap!
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 God bless that woman who gave me everything in the divorce. At first she used it as an excuse to bail but then after the divorce she wanted back so bad she is now in prison for shooting at me after she found out I was getting remarried so I couldn't have been that bad. Well geez, I think that tells you all you needed to know about her! Please don't lump all women into her category!
lindya Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 I was rather surprised that she said that. So am I, if she was venturing it as her own opinion rather than just reflecting what she understood to be your feelings. I can understand your sense of validation on hearing her hold your husband responsible for your adultery, but is that what you would truly expect of an objective and impartial professional? It sounds as though you've come away from that session feeling that she was very much on your side, but your husband is also meant to be working with this therapist. He'd be justified in not wishing to work with a professional who's so firmly of the opinion that he's in the wrong and you're in the right. Maybe you should check with the therapist whether she is actually expressing a personal/professional view here or if she's just reflecting back to you what she believes to be your perspective. I don't see how anyone, regardless of their professional training and experience, can say with any authority that but for your husband's behaviour you wouldn't have had an affair. If she has to report to the court on the work that she's been doing, and her report contains that kind of speculation, she's not going to end up looking very credible.
Author movinon05 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 So am I, if she was venturing it as her own opinion rather than just reflecting what she understood to be your feelings. I can understand your sense of validation on hearing her hold your husband responsible for your adultery, but is that what you would truly expect of an objective and impartial professional? It sounds as though you've come away from that session feeling that she was very much on your side, but your husband is also meant to be working with this therapist. He'd be justified in not wishing to work with a professional who's so firmly of the opinion that he's in the wrong and you're in the right. Maybe you should check with the therapist whether she is actually expressing a personal/professional view here or if she's just reflecting back to you what she believes to be your perspective. I don't see how anyone, regardless of their professional training and experience, can say with any authority that but for your husband's behaviour you wouldn't have had an affair. If she has to report to the court on the work that she's been doing, and her report contains that kind of speculation, she's not going to end up looking very credible. Perhaps, but you don't know of all the details of what happened in the M, do you? She does. She also had her session with him first and I have no doubt he told her his version. Now she sees the other side. She also saw how he behaved at the 4 hour seminar we both had to go through, you didn't, did you? So I don't think she's stupid. In the end, it really doesn't matter, because we are not there for her to put us back together or to be counselled on what happened long ago. The issue is with my son and his father. If he was such a wonderful father, from day 1, maybe we wouldn't be in this position today, having to go through courts to get child support, having to try to heal a relationship between my son and his father, which my son wants nothing to do with. I was merely pointing out something she said. She's more concerned about healing the relationship with my son and his father. And I think she's now more enlightened about exactly what happened in our M and the way he treats his children so that she has a better handle on just why my children are so angry with their father. Whether she likes me or not, whether she validated me or not, is not going to make a hill of a beans of a difference when she tries to sort through the muddle of their relationship. She'll hear from my son next - from the horse's mouth. I don't have to speak for him now. That's all that matters to me. And btw, FWIW, every therapist, every counselor, and there have been many, know the details. And they know my ex is pretty much impossible. I didn't have to tell them that. They saw it for themselves. So this one is just the next in line, court ordered now, to see if she can help.
Babybird Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 I'm not directing this towards anyone that is posting here. A lot of people say it takes two to make and break a marriage. Most of the time I agree with that. Sometimes it is the fault of ONE person for the M ending. Look at all the people that say that they were in a happy M and had no idea why their spouse cheated. For your therapist to validate your internal reasoning for having an A is great. It might have been a mistake but to you, in your mind, you needed the person you had the A with. I don't know much about your situation but if he was drinking every night I can't imagine it was pretty. Having someone hold and love you in a way may have saved a part of yourself that otherwise would've been lost. Sometimes there IS a reason to have an A. Leaving a M is/can be easier said than done. Especially if you have no money, no where to go, and children to take with you. I know plenty of people that stay in their miserable M specifically for those reasons.
kymberann Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I know that some therapists are not worth anything. I find offense to this as I am a therapist AND a female. AND an xOW AND BS I haven' t read the rest of the thread yet as I wanted to offer my POV. Therapists aren't there to decide who was right or wrong, pass judgement or agree and disagree. Therapists are there to offer validation, empathy and actively listen regardless of their experiences and personal values. It is my role to guide the process towards change and solutions, and challenge when needed yes, but it is the clients role to determine what and if anything they did is wrong or justified or just plain simlpy happened just because. That is when the challenge comes to play if it is really needed. What your statement tells me is that perhaps you had a bad experience where you weren't validated, and that's too bad! Plus, I didn't spend years in school learning what I have been doing to be genralized as "not worth anything"!
Woggle Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I know that some therapists are not worth anything. I find offense to this as I am a therapist AND a female. AND an xOW AND BS I haven' t read the rest of the thread yet as I wanted to offer my POV. Therapists aren't there to decide who was right or wrong, pass judgement or agree and disagree. Therapists are there to offer validation, empathy and actively listen regardless of their experiences and personal values. It is my role to guide the process towards change and solutions, and challenge when needed yes, but it is the clients role to determine what and if anything they did is wrong or justified or just plain simlpy happened just because. That is when the challenge comes to play if it is really needed. What your statement tells me is that perhaps you had a bad experience where you weren't validated, and that's too bad! Plus, I didn't spend years in school learning what I have been doing to be genralized as "not worth anything"! I am not directing it at you or therapists in general but many female therapists have the attitude that everything is the man's fault.
ridingthebulls Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I am not directing it at you or therapists in general but many female therapists have the attitude that everything is the man's fault. YEP! What her therapist did was biased and unprofessional. Making one partner feel like a saint (cheating partner no less) while condemning another pretty much will make the guy not want to see the bitch again.
ridingthebulls Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I am not generalizing again but my ex wife had a therapist who said the same thing because it was my fault that we were living in poverty but then it was also my fault that I was going to school and working so much which was what pulled us out of poverty so really I was damned if I did and damned if didn't. I know that some therapists are not worth anything. WOW! Unreal. These women let their emotions and personal opinions dominate their viewpoints expressed in therapy I'm afraid. It's a shame, but many of these therapists need therapists of their own.
ridingthebulls Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 God bless that woman who gave me everything in the divorce. At first she used it as an excuse to bail but then after the divorce she wanted back so bad she is now in prison for shooting at me after she found out I was getting remarried so I couldn't have been that bad. Holy moly! Ever visit her in the pen? Sounds like a soap opera... least you got through it ALIVE.
Woggle Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Holy moly! Ever visit her in the pen? Sounds like a soap opera... least you got through it ALIVE. No I haven't visted her but from what I have heard she is not doing well. When she gets out I will try to get a restraining order. I think when she had time to think about it she knew she ruined a good thing and the fact that it was ruined forver drove her over the edge. It is sad that it had to end this way but she did it to herself. I am glad my current wife stuck by me and still decided to marry me after that. It showed me she was a keeper.
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